Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS

[Egordon]

It's true. But taking it every day, you need to take high doses because you establish a higher threshold. Also I'm not sure if taking it every day would "protect you" becasue of the raised tolerance. You would have to "flush" each time, which is what indicates that you have taken enough.

From what I understand, most who take it daily don't flush, even if they take 1000 or 2000 mg.

But CC, I don't think you would have to take it every day. My guess would be that if you had an orgasm every two or three days, you probably wouldn't get NEs. And even if you did get an NE every once in a while, still some protection is better than none.

Are people who take it everyday not seeing results because of the lack of flush? I thought that we decided that a flush wasn't necessary for diminished symptoms?

[Daveman]

Niacin can absolutely be used everyday. In fact, many people with high cholesterol take between 1000 - 2000mg a day! But if you're using Niacin everyday, you should do so under the supervision of a doctor. Especially if you're taking more than 500mg.

It's true. But taking it every day, you need to take high doses because you establish a higher threshold. Also I'm not sure if taking it every day would "protect you" becasue of the raised tolerance. You would have to "flush" each time, which is what indicates that you have taken enough.

From what I understand, most who take it daily don't flush, even if they take 1000 or 2000 mg.

But CC, I don't think you would have to take it every day. My guess would be that if you had an orgasm every two or three days, you probably wouldn't get NEs. And even if you did get an NE every once in a while, still some protection is better than none.

In addition to what you said i also have to think if it would affect my dessensitization program or not.
Am going to try everyday for two weeks see if it even helps my symptoms, if it does i will transition into every copule of days.
I was going to do everyday rapaflo instead, but that is making me tired and it might actually have more sideffects.

B complex has had reports of helping when taken daily. Not sure of the doseage. Almost bought some today, but wasn't sure of the dosage and the pills were rather expensive.

$14 for 20. They had 1mg B1, and 200 each of B6 and B12. No idea how that is for dosage.

[Daveman]

It's true. But taking it every day, you need to take high doses because you establish a higher threshold. Also I'm not sure if taking it every day would "protect you" becasue of the raised tolerance. You would have to "flush" each time, which is what indicates that you have taken enough.

From what I understand, most who take it daily don't flush, even if they take 1000 or 2000 mg.

But CC, I don't think you would have to take it every day. My guess would be that if you had an orgasm every two or three days, you probably wouldn't get NEs. And even if you did get an NE every once in a while, still some protection is better than none.

Are people who take it everyday not seeing results because of the lack of flush? I thought that we decided that a flush wasn't necessary for diminished symptoms?

The flush ISN'T the reason that the symptoms are releived, but it is like the marker that you've taken enough to help. Without the flush the beneficial effects are much less.

I've had a couple of times that I didn't have a flush, but I felt like I was "on the verge". I had reduced symptoms, but the POIS was only reduced by 50% instead of my usual 85 to 90%.

It would be interesting to see if taking it daily and having a constant dose of niacin in the system aleviates symptoms, even though the person isn't getting the flush.

Evidence so far implies that without the flush the system hasn't reached a level where it is saturated. Taking it daily raises the level of saturation. Without saturation, there is much less protection.

[Jon]

Guys, Can Niacin be taken in conjunction with with garlic or blueberrys before sex? Or how about things such as saw palmetto or vitamins? Or is it best to take it alone?

I appreciate your time,

Jon.

[Ccconfucius]

It's true. But taking it every day, you need to take high doses because you establish a higher threshold. Also I'm not sure if taking it every day would "protect you" becasue of the raised tolerance. You would have to "flush" each time, which is what indicates that you have taken enough.

From what I understand, most who take it daily don't flush, even if they take 1000 or 2000 mg.

But CC, I don't think you would have to take it every day. My guess would be that if you had an orgasm every two or three days, you probably wouldn't get NEs. And even if you did get an NE every once in a while, still some protection is better than none.

Are people who take it everyday not seeing results because of the lack of flush? I thought that we decided that a flush wasn't necessary for diminished symptoms?

The flush ISN'T the reason that the symptoms are releived, but it is like the marker that you've taken enough to help. Without the flush the beneficial effects are much less.

I've had a couple of times that I didn't have a flush, but I felt like I was "on the verge". I had reduced symptoms, but the POIS was only reduced by 50% instead of my usual 85 to 90%.

It would be interesting to see if taking it daily and having a constant dose of niacin in the system aleviates symptoms, even though the person isn't getting the flush.

Evidence so far implies that without the flush the system hasn't reached a level where it is saturated. Taking it daily raises the level of saturation. Without saturation, there is much less protection.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/sj.bjp.0707668/full
I found a way to see if flush is the reason niacin works or not.
Luteolin has being found to reduce niacin flush by amost 90%.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/sj.bjp.0707668/full

Niacin (7.5 mg per rat, equivalent to a human dose of 1750 mg per 80 kg) maximally increased ear temperature to 1.9±0.2 oC at 45 min. Quercetin and luteolin (4.3 mg per rat; 1000 mg per human), administered i.p. 45 min prior to niacin, inhibited the niacin effect by 96 and 88%, respectively. Aspirin (1.22 mg per rat; 325 mg per human) inhibited the niacin effect by only 30%. Niacin almost doubled plasma PGD2 and 5-HT, but aspirin reduced only PGD2 by 86%. In contrast, luteolin inhibited both plasma PGD2 and 5-HT levels by 100 and 67%, respectively.

Conclusions and implications.
Niacin-induced skin temperature increase is associated with PGD2 and 5-HT elevations in rats; luteolin may be a better inhibitor of niacin-induced flush because it blocks the rise in both mediators.

British Journal of Pharmacology (2008) 153, 1382–1387; doi:10.103

[Daveman]

Although I'm not so sure that the PGD2 and 5-HT don't contribute to the beneficial effects of niacin.

They may cause the flush, and although the flush isn't the reason than niacin is beneficial, the elements that cause it might be.

So we may still be "in the dark".

The experiment would still be worth a try, but we'd have to know how to interpret the data!

[Ccconfucius]

Although I'm not so sure that the PGD2 and 5-HT don't contribute to the beneficial effects of niacin.

They may cause the flush, and although the flush isn't the reason than niacin is beneficial, the elements that cause it might be.

So we may still be "in the dark".

The experiment would still be worth a try, but we'd have to know how to interpret the data!

If the luteolin blocks flush and niacin still works then, we will know, it is not release of pdg2 and 5 ht. We can also add aspirin to, to block it all.

I guess we can start  with differences and similarities with niacinmide.
Are we sure niancinminde works. I think guthrie said niacinmide required alot to work we can look into if niacin and niacinmide a property or cause something similar but niacin does more of it.

[Daveman]

Well, that's true.

It would be one less component in the equation.

From my perspective, it would be good then that the luteolin blocks flush and makes the niacin non-effective.
(Because I feel that PGD2 and or 5-HT are the "active ingredients") This would make it even harder though to
explain why it's not the flush that reduces the symptoms.

Also I really would like to see more experimenting with niacinimide.

Anyone know how PGD2 and 5-HT are affected with niacinimide?

Yes a lot more niacinimide is required.

[0002ppdnuos]

Dear all, can I ask? If Niacin is supposed to be taken an hour prior to an orgasm, how do you guys use it to prevent POIS caused by involuntary nocturnal emission?

[Daveman]

NEs are reduced with more sex. If one is realtively satisfied, they are less likely to have NEs.

So I think if niacin works for you and allows you to have sex once every four days at least, the chance of NE is much less.


It seems like 4 days is more or less the NE cycle. So if you take niacin every night (as close as possible to when the NE would occur) the NE should have least effect. Then You wouldn't have to take niacin for at least two days, or three.

As I said, also if you manage to increase your "day sex", you should also decrease your NEs.

First, you have to see if niacin works for you.

Find a Good description of the procedure, and follow it to the letter. If it works, follow the above.

[0002ppdnuos]

As I said, also if you manage to increase your "day sex", you should also decrease your NEs.
First, you have to see if niacin works for you.
Find a Good description of the procedure, and follow it to the letter. If it works, follow the above.

I get it, thanks.
I'll try it when I get the niacin.

[Daveman]

As I said, also if you manage to increase your "day sex", you should also decrease your NEs.
First, you have to see if niacin works for you.
Find a Good description of the procedure, and follow it to the letter. If it works, follow the above.

I get it, thanks.
I'll try it when I get the niacin.

There was another answer that was pretty good too in respect to the NEs problem, that being the "reset" effect that a second orgasm with niacin has.

If you have an NE and start to get POIS. Some of us have noted that you can stop symptoms by taking niacin and then having another orgasm. Normally niacin doesn’t work once POIS has started, BUT, if you take the niacin and then have another orgasm as soon as the niacin flush has passed, the POIS goes away.
It seems that something in the orgasm “activates” the niacin, which in turn works to stop POIS. This procedure hasn’t been widely tested, only two have reported this result, probably because few are brave enough to try to see if it works. But if you already have POIS, I  guess it would be worth a try.

So there you have two alternatives.

The first to hopefully reduce the occurrence of NEs and the second to “fix” the POIS if you couldn’t avoid it.

[0002ppdnuos]

Many thanks for the guide, Daveman.
And I'm wondering if niacin works, would brewer's yeast as well?
Brewer's yeast is high in niacin and more easily available.
Maybe that is worth a try too.

[Daveman]

Interesting, I didn't know that!

I wonder how much you'd have to take to get a flush.... and what other things might it do?

Do you have some data on it contents, maybe other components, vitamins etc. it might have??

[0002ppdnuos]

The nutrition fact of brewer's yeast is listed down comprehensively in the following website:
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/custom/1323569/2
There are 10mg of niacin per 30g serving (2 tablespoons).
Since most of us seem to get a flush at 100mg, one serving of brewer's yeast doesn't seem to be able to cause a flush.
But brewer's yeast, in long run, might be a good supplement for POIS sufferers.
If anyone had tried it, do share your experience.

[0002ppdnuos]

I'm so excited that my niacin had just arrived.

[Daveman]

I'm so excited that my niacin had just arrived.

Follow the rules to the letter, at least the first time. It’s very important that it’s taken in just the right way.
Nothing in the stomach (fast for at LEAST 3 hrs), OR dissolve under the tongue, do not swallow.
It should be the flush kind.
Take it BEFORE the orgasm Start with 100mg the first time maybe 150mg.
Wait for the flush, it’s like a mild sunburn, the face pulses with the heart beat, but nothing too wild, as long as you don’t take too much. And the flush only lasts about 20 minutes.
Once the peak of the flush has passed, (which is important for BEST effects), THEN you can set in to “the fun”.
Enjoy the miracle.

[0002ppdnuos]

I couldn't wait but had taken a 100mg Niacin last night.
It was the third day of my POIS session last night.
No flush happened before I went to bed.
Today, I feel good. No lethargy, just a little tiredness, very little brain fog.
The significant effect that I feel is that I have the feel to go to bed at night, which is now.
That's very encouraging for me.

Thanks everyone.
I thought I'm going to live with POIS this lifetime.
It's obviously changing now.

[0002ppdnuos]

'Niacine has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.'
Daveman, do you mean symptoms lasts for a day even though you take niacin before an O?

Should I see the flush all over my body for it to be considered heavy?
I only notice mild rash on my ears, back of my head, and neck.

[Daveman]

'Niacine has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.'
Daveman, do you mean symptoms lasts for a day even though you take niacin before an O?

Should I see the flush all over my body for it to be considered heavy?
I only notice mild rash on my ears, back of my head, and neck.

Heavy is when it makes your stomach feel funny or even nauseous and burns fairlystrongly.

For me a good flush is one which lasts about 20 minutes, scalp and face burn like a mild sunburn, maybe the face pulses. Sometimes I get red patches on my forearms and upper legs, maybe chest. When that happens it lasts a little longer, but if it subsides within 20 minutes or so (even though it doesn’t completely disappear) then its what I call a good flush.

If it lasts for an hour, it was probably a little on the heavy side. My stomach muscles twitch when it’s a little heavier.

The important factor is that you let it pass the peak. The ideal is to wait about an hour from when you first take the niacin to when you have the “O”.

I take “up to 400mg” or flush, which ever comes first. I usually do 200mg right away, under the tongue and wait about 5 or 10 minutes to see what will happen (if it kicks in good or not). If I don’t get a flush I do another 100, wait 5 min, if still no flush I do 100 more. After waiting the hour (from first niacin) I do it anyways, even if I don’t flush. I am usually protected.

So the flush is not ALWAYS the indicator, but a good guideline.

I’ve taken the 400 without flush and had zero POIS, and taken 150 with heavy flush (in the morning for instance) and had 1 day of POIS. In this latter case, the flush came quick and hard, and I didn’t wait the hour.

 When I’m flushing strong and have sex, the sex is real good, it feels good with the niacin, but the protection isn’t as good!