Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS

[Daveman]

This graph shows the relationship between time from eating and flush. There are three graphs, one for early in the morning one for 3 in the afternoon and the last for later at night.

It shows that best results are had in the morning. I can take 100mg in the morning and get almost too big of a flush, but in the same conditions at night, the flush can be borderline.

10 indicates good flush, red face, sunburn feeling, prickly skin.
6 would indicate maybe slight burning feeling, but no redness, increased heart rate
3 would indicate MAYBE slight effect on heart rate.

These are from fairly limited test, I'd like to accumulate more data. The "10" reading for 6 in the morning with min 6 hrs fast time (X axis) is lower than the 12 reading with 5 hours and 4 hrs fasting. This might be for lack of data (statistical deviation).

You may have to double click the graph to make it bigger.

It's surely not exactly relevant to everybody, but shows a tendency for the effect of niacin to be greater in the morning, thereby meaning less fasting time before for the same effect.

[mellivora]

This looks interesting Daveman. Are you able to relate the fasting/flush intensity to effectiveness at relieving symptoms in any way?

I suspected too from my limited experience with Niacin that it is harder to achieve flush and perhaps niacin is less effective at night. I don't have hard evidence for this.

I now have Nature's Way 100mg capsules. These seem slower to act than the Holland and Barrett 100mg tablets I described trying in previous posts. Whereas I have had a flush start in 5 minutes with the H&B tablets, the Nature's Way flush seems harder to achieve. I need to try Nature's Way some more. If it worked the first time I tried it, it was only partially effective. I still had symptoms but looking at my ratings for symptom severity they were a little less than normal. Its too early to draw any conclusions.

In the early hours of this morning I did another trial. At 00:44 I took 200mg Niacin (Nature's Way). 1 hour later I still hadn't had a flush but O'd anyway. I then started feeling the flush at 2:02am (1hr16mins after taking the niacin!). I was a bit frustrated that I O'd thinking there wasn't a flush and then the flush came (lasting about 10mins)! I had POIS symptoms next day. The O was 7 hours after supper but I had had eaten some fruit just a couple of hours before.

Although I need to look into it, I think its likely the digestive system isn't so active late at night and this affects the rate of niacin (and food) assimilation. We should probably also look to the levels of hormones/other bioactive molecules that change concentration through the day. I also suspect that the capsules take longer to release their active contents compared to the tablets.

[fsol]

That's a pretty interesting graph, Daveman. Until now I thought the intensity of the flush was only a matter of fasting, but I'm also experiencing that the time of day has something to do with it.

I took 300 mg of Niacin on half full stomach in the afternoon and had no reaction at all. A few days later I took 400mg on empty stomach in the middle of the day and I felt like my head was going to explode. I flushed for 45 mins and had a face like a lobster. Now I just took 400mg again, late at night on full stomach and had no reaction at all.

So for me, fasting is a major part of it, but I'm sure the time of the day also has a part to play.

[Daveman]

I'd really like to refine the graph with more data, sometimes in the heat of things I don't document like I should.

[b_jim]

Red like a lobster ?   What a coincidence... (=> Astaxanthin=anti-Pois?? ).

[vetrofragile79]

-Hello, I am writing from italy and I apologize for the bad english ... google translator gives me a help:)
finally my illness has a name, but I'm sad because it is a rare disease and there is no effective treatment.
I read some of you take the vitamima b3, What can cause liver damage?
The use of vitamin b3 forum "alternative treatments", why not official? who suggested to use it?which is the molecule-flush version (which did not recommend for liver damage), because I would like to try the inositol hexacinate, it is the no-flush niacin? I suffer from 20 years of this problem and has ruined my life, I'm using 3 times the normal time to graduate university and no-sex is impossible for me, after three days I become anxious.


I'm starting using 40 mg nician ,flush version and no effect,
with 90mg and empty stomac ,sex after 1 hour and pois was reduce but not at all. No flush or little bit.
Tomorrow i will try to incrase it to 100 or 120
How many time niacin need to work if i take with half stomach full?

[Daveman]

Hi vetrofragile,

Welcome.

Niacin is bad for your liver when taken in large doses and for extended periods. Some people can build up a resistance and are able to take 1000 or 2000mg per day. This is not our goal.

The goal is to take it ONLY before orgasm and a minimum quantity, just enough to produce the flush. The flush is more of a guide than a medical necessity. I have taken a quantity that didn't produce flush, but "almost", and it still worked. But it is better to take enough to produce the flush "for sure".

You are doing well to start out slowly and "find" your level. if 90 almost gave you a flush, 100 or 120 should be good. But I find that it varies. Sometimes with 3 hrs of fasting 100 gives me a strong flush and other times nothing. But sometimes 100 will give me a very strong flush, so I don't like to take more than the 100.

Sometimes I'll take 100 and if it doesn't give me a flush within 30 minutes, I'll take another 100. Niacin is in your system and "protects you" for several hours, that is you can have the orgasm from any time after the peak of the flush up until about 3 hrs later.

I'm not sure I heard from anyone who has had a flush on half full stomach, and am not sure how much you'd have to take.

Some have had luck with niacinamide, which is no flush, but I'm not so sure the the other no flush type works for POIS, it's too different chemically.

The reason that niacin isn't in an official category is that the mechanism still isn't clear. The "official" categories describe a mechanism. I think an idea is forming as to the mechanism, but it isn't clear enough yet!

[vetrofragile79]

Thank u for reply, how long flush going on? i'm little bit scared from a kind of video on youtube ...a man scratching a lot for long time.. i'm little bit axiogen  
Which way to don't build a niacin resistance?

ps: take niacin 3hrs ago half stomach and no flush.. :S

[Vincent M]

Niacin is safe as long as you up your dose slowly enough the way you are doing. I need 200mg to flush if my stomach is completely empty. The flush only lasts 5 to 10 minutes I think. Nothing to be scared of.

You will build up a tolerance if you take it everyday so the key is to only take niacin once or maybe twice a week.

Don't give up on niacin until you experience the flush without a doubt.

[vetrofragile79]

 20 mins post O , seems to be reduce brain fog (usually is high) ..other symptoms are at the same level like past. i'm feel tired but not confused.. not so bad
I feel like have a shield or firewall agaist the brain fog.. but not working @ 100%..maybe 70%

[Daveman]

20 mins post O , seems to be reduce brain fog (usually is high) ..other symptoms are at the same level like past. i'm feel tired but not confused.. not so bad
I feel like have a shield or firewall agaist the brain fog.. but not working @ 100%..maybe 70%

Yes, for me the first day still has a little POIS, although the brain-fog and cognitive parts are almost wiped out. But After day 1 I have very little else.

Some joint problems, but life is livable, and a whole lot better!

I'm in day 1 today, and frequently forget that I have POIS.

[vetrofragile79]

are there other treatments better than niacin?
here no medic know this syndrome.. my personal medic sad: "illusionary desease" try with yoga or something else.... wtf!!!!
it is a good idea take other b-group vitamins? if yes how many?

thanks guys

[Ccconfucius]

we have all got that in every country represented in this forum.

[omen]

I have suggested before and I do it again try having orgasm in the morning after u wake up and then no orgasm for a week or as long as u can control...the day u have orgasm and the other day will be all u will suffer and from the third day life will be normal...it works for me please try it friends instead of having any drugs...when I used toi have an orgasm in the night time I used to suffer for almost a week and on the 7th day I used to feel better but having it in the morning I feel better on the 3rd day....but one thing don't have more than 1 orgasm or else it all gets messed up....I think we poisers are all having low levels of chemicals in head..when we orgasm the levels which are already low,they fall and the connection between the neuro receptors and the brain is lost because the medium between the both of them are the chemicals...then when we get the spike in the chemical levels we feel better....this is purely what I feel and maybe I am wrong so friends just be a little careful while having orgasms...limit it to once a week or maybe more than that cause we poisers have to keep our chemical levels in the high range to be out of pois...bye.

[vetrofragile79]

astinenza? No ,non fa per me.. c'ho provato per anni ma non sono mai riuscito .

[Daveman]

astinenza? No ,non fa per me.. c'ho provato per anni ma non sono mai riuscito .

I translated with Google (Italian). You say,
"abstinence, no not for me, I've tried that for years and haven't been successful".

I agree.

Omen, you are lucky that you only suffer the one day when you have orgasm in the morning. I have tried, and it's worse for me.
I guess we are not all the same. When I do it at night, I sleep the worst hours, those first ones, and so it's like one day less of POIS
(well 8 hrs anyways). When I do it in the morning, I suffer those worst hours, but STILL have 5 days of POIS.

Until I found niacin. Now I can have sex in the morning and hardly suffer at all. The next day it's almost all gone.

And it's not like niacin is really a drug, it's a vitamin. Iboprofen or aspirin is worse for you, especially if you ONLY take it before orgasm and not regularly.

vetrofragile79, read up on niacin, for most, 100mg 30 minutes to 1 hr before orgasm and it protects you against a lot of the worst POIS symptoms

It doesn't work for everybody, but for most it's almost a miracle.

If you are lucky enough like Omen, to not to have to use anything, then all the better, but there are few of us in that boat.

I will try to help with translation vetro, or hopefully others here can. Thanks and welcome.

[vetrofragile79]

I'm sorry  ,maybe i had paste the italian varsion of translation from google translator.. i have to improve my english

[Daveman]

Thank u for reply, how long flush going on? i'm little bit scared from a kind of video on youtube ...a man scratching a lot for long time.. i'm little bit axiogen  
Which way to don't build a niacin resistance?

ps: take niacin 3hrs ago half stomach and no flush.. :S

The flush feels like a mild sunburn, and lasts at most 30 minutes more like 20 min. You can feel the blood pumping in the face and scalp, but it is quite tolerable. Knowing that it is a normal effect and that it will go away soon, helps.

The idea is to take just enough to produce the flush. If you take twice the amount, the flush could last longer and be more uncomfortable. So it's good to do like you and try small amounts working up to the right amount for you.

Food, and I think alcohol before taking the niacin definitely reduces it's effectivity. As I mentioned, I'm not sure how much you would have to take on a half full stomach.

Perhaps the worst part of taking niacin is having to wait 4 to 6 hours after food to take it. It seems that niacin works better earlier in the day too. I took it once at 11:00 AM, after breakfast at 8:00 AM and got a GOOD flush with 100 mg.

[Bulls eye]

has anyone tried inositol Hexanicotinate its also sold as niacin but its an esterefied form , sadly this is the only form of niacin i've found in my country

[vetrofragile79]

I took 90 mg at 3 in the morning on an empty stomach, small flush .. pois present at 90%: (
It 'just 10 mg from 100 mg that had taken effect, it is strange that it does not work