Testosterone

[Daveman]

Testosterone has been used fairly successfully by several member over at the NSF POIS forum. There have been varying degrees of success, but for the most part the results are quite favorable. Hopefully at the risk of repeating themselves, some of these members can share their stories here.

To date however a GOOD professional medical explanation of wy it works is still pending, although among US there are some fairly good and valient attempts to do so.

[Daveman]

The following recompilation should be good fodder to get things started!

Some (quite a few) conversations about testosterone on NSF.

http://www.google.com/search?q=testosterone+POIS+site:http://thenakedscientists.com&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

[demografx]

At the risk of boring you once again, I have made a GIANT dent in The POIS Demon with TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy).

It's been over 2 years of daily treatment now, and I still consider this a "Life Miracle" for me. (30+ years of POIS Agony, never thought I would see the slightest relief).

There are risks associated with TRT. I recommend that you visit a POIS-empathetic endocrinologist, ask him/her to test you hormonally in-and-out-of-POIS, then weigh the risks and benefits carefully.

Best wishes, no matter HOW you find POIS relief! If banana peels work for you, that's all you should care about.  

[Daveman]

Best wishes, no matter HOW you find POIS relief! If banana peels work for you, that's all you should care about.  

Mellow Yellow 

[Green]

I'm actually thinking of getting off testosterone for a while, soon. Getting some labs taken once it's out of my system and then reassess my own situation with a GP if my testosterone levels still fall below the reference range.

At the dosage I take, there has been little damage, my testicles temporarlily shurnk because of high estradiol levels, but now they are back to pre trt size.

I'm looking to do this becuase I have found greater benefit with just HCG rather than testosterone, worst case scenario, I can stay on HCG I don't have a problem, it's not as harmful as test either, time will tell, I'll be looking to do this once I complete my degree, over the summer, which I haven't even done anywork this year so far  Thanks to POIS...

[demografx]

For those of you interested in and following my TRT (testosterone replacement therapy) POIS treatment (80% POIS-free now, steadily, for 2 and 1/2 years after full hormonal bloodtesting, diagnosis, treatment and follow-up by my endocrinologist. My treatment consists of 15mg daily dosage of (3) Androderm testosterone patches.


My test results from May 25, 2011:


Testosterone, Free/Total Equilib          Result          Units          Reference Interval


Testosterone, Serum                        376             ng/dL            193 - 740

Testosterone, Free                        15.57            ng/dL           5.00 - 21.00

% Free Testosterone                        4.14              %             1.50  -  4.20           

[Hoping]

Hello all,
I wanted to report my results of a recent testosterone lab I asked my doctor for. I O'd about 9pm the night before the test, which I received around 11am the next day. It looks like everything came back normal. I can't say I undersand what the results mean exactly. Any thoughts? (Demo, you seem to be the testosterone expert -- do you have any insights?)
For the record, I am a 26-year-old healthy, active male.

Testosterone (Total, LC/MS/MS):
--Result: 666 ng/dL (normal range 250-1100)

Testosterone (Free):
--Result: 119.0 pg/mL (normal range 35.0-115.0)

[Starsky]

Demografx, can you describe your therapy in details. How long did it take from the begining of TRT to have a relief? Are you alone or did somebody have the same effect?

[Stef]

Hi All,

I'm copying and pasting, and editing a bit, part of a post I entered on NSF late last night, as this part is about testosterone treatment (TRT). I hope that some of it is helpful to even one of you. (It was late and I was tired last night, so forgot to also post it here also.)

Here goes:

Regarding TRT, as Demo says (and he has had GREAT success with it!), there are definite risks to TRT, as there are with any form of hormone replacement treatment, such as estrogen replacement therapy, and even with birth control pills (which is nothing more than hormone treatment).

It should be clearly understood that lab values are not the end-all, be-all regarding any type of hormone replacement therapy.  A GOOD endocrinologist -- especially one whose focus is andrology -- will understand that the lab values only provide some information. 

Also, testosterone levels vary throughout the day, and vary from day to day. Your level could be below normal at particular and random times of a given day.

What matters most are the symptoms of the patient -- there are many subtle symptoms that a good andrology/endocrinology specialist will be able to ascertain.

I'm not trying to push TRT, by any means!!!  But just want you all to be aware that one test does not provide an answer, and to remember that a lab reference table is not a human reference table!  Sometimes, just a really small dose of certain hormones (testosterone and thyroid hormone come to mind immediately) can make a MAJOR difference in one's health and quality of life.

Since POIS causes such horrible, life-altering symptoms, TRT might be worth considering as a temporary aid until the REAL DEAL comes along. This goes with one major caveat -- make sure that the physician is a Grade A (from a major university-affiliated teaching hospital) endocrinologist who has a special focus on andrology. If he/she says no, there may be an excellent reason -- just make sure to ask for that reason!

It's so important to do what Demo did -- get assertive, advocate for yourselves, don't take a simple "no" for an answer. If possible, enlist the help of a friend when going for your appointment -- two are stronger than one, especially when feeling so vulnerable.

Although the exact cause(s) and treatment(s) for POIS are not yet clear, any physician who leaves you to fend for yourself is not the right physician! That's a red flag -- and a BIG indication for a second, or third, etc, opinion. ALWAYS!!

[demografx]

I wanted to try T-therapy, but to see an endocrinologist you've first got to see your primary and get lab work done.  So I had some blood lab-work performed finally. 

The doc had me get a whole bunch of things tested but there were the only 3 i thought that matter to us.  Here are my results:

Testosterone, serum:         540 ng/dL      Reference interval 249 - 836
Free Testosterone (direct): 13.3 pg/mL    Reference interval 9.3  - 26.5
Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy:      43.0 ng/mL    Reference interval 32  - 100

So none are low.  The Vitamin D may just be normal bc just 2 weeks prior I had been in the sun for 2 weeks straight.  The testosterone though I was surprised about, given all the discussion we have on this site about pois closely correlating with low T - I had all but assumed mine was low. 

Anyway, so I asked my primary about putting me on T-therapy.  He said NO given my normal levels.  I then asked him to refer me to an endo to discuss this with.  He was hesitant to do so bc he said he greatly advises I dont take an unnecessary risk with T-therapy (he thinks there's a 0% chance it'll help me), but begrudgingly agreed.  I asked him to refer me to one of the best doctors in the area... the supervising physician in UCSF's endocrinology dept, whose name is Dr. Blake Tyrell.  My doctor sent him an email, which he didn't let me see.  But here is Dr. Tyrell's response:   

... I have heard of this once (POIS) before but could find no evidence that it is an endocrine disorder.
Given that his testosterone is 540, I would agree that androgen therapy is not indicated.
So-we would not see him."

I can't say I'm surprised by that.   But I thought I'd share.  I have found an internist who also has a phD in sexology - so I have an appt with that guy in a month.  hopefully that yields better results

In my earlier days of testosterone experimentation, I went through a similar thing with my docs, and I just got...ANGRY and aggressive. I DEMANDED testosterone, and talked very emphatically about POIS as if I were a worldwide expert (I was!!).

The fact is: doc's don't know!

It worked. They put me through a lot, but it worked. And now I am on TRT with proper testing and a sympathetic endo.

HOWEVER, THERE ARE RISKS WITH TRT (TESTOSTERONE TREATMENT) AND THEY NEED TO BE UNDERSTOOD BY ANYONE CONTEMPLATING TREATMENT. THE POSSIBLE INABILITY TO RE-START YOUR NATURAL TESTOSTERONE PRODUCTION IF YOU QUIT TRT IS AN IMPORTANT CONSIDERATION.

My hunch (NOT empirically proven fact) is that TRT can help anyone, regardless of testosterone readings.

[Daveman]

With respect to the hunch, and even to explain perhaps why some of us can have normal readings but still find TRT helpful, is that we may be less sensitive to the testosterone "signal". After all we have a RARE disorder, so we may not be expected to respond as a normal person.

Our testing in thei area has been low. It would be great to have more data in this area.

For any who have tried or those who might consider it. Starting levels and conditions are required as reference points. Then careful administration of treatment, and continuous level monitoring coupled with symptomatic feedback.

As usual, failures may not always be failures if we capture the important data, and successes may not be successes if we don't capture the important data.

[demografx]

Quick summary: my high dose TRT + stimulants + forced (extra) sleep are extremely powerful POIS tools for me. At times, I am nearly 100% POIS-free. On average: 80%.

Please do NOT try what I do without strict testing, diagnosis and medical supervision. It can be dangerous.

After 35 years POIS agony, I can't begin to describe my gratitude these last 2+ years. I thank you - these forums - for showing me the way!

[demografx]

Demografx, can you describe your therapy in details. How long did it take from the begining of TRT to have a relief? Are you alone or did somebody have the same effect?

Starsky, sorry for the delay. I waited 6 weeks from when I started TRT, but that was only because I was AFRAID of my usual POIS agony if it DIDN'T work.

It worked!!! After 35 life-destroying years!

I apply 3 patches of Androderm 5mg = 15mg nightly. Manufacturer is Watson Pharmaceuticals. I take more at POIS onset.

About half a dozen people have reported success with TRT.

[0002ppdnuos]

I fully understand how you felt.
Thanks for sharing your experience.

[biliboo]

My natural total test level is over 1000ng/dl, but I suffer badly from POIS.
I think TRT can only help the ones with low T levels to recover faster from POIS episode.
Another approach would be to take Testosterone Undecanoate caps or rub some T gel for a couple days starting the day of the ej.

[demografx]

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[Jon]

Hello, everyone. I do want to mention that if any of you are ever in Massachusetts, United States do not hesitate to contact me. My family operates a restaurant and I would be honored host any of the active people in the forum.

Anyway,

Something strange has happened with my testosterone testing. As many of you know, my symptoms all started with a particular orgasm almost a decade ago. They are very severe, have pulled me out of my family's businesses and school, and can seem both schizophrenic and physically limiting when at it's worst. My testosterone has consistently read in the 400's for the first few years of my POIS, and doctors understandably interpreted this as a normal testosterone level since the level can vary from person to person.

Recently, about 6 months ago, I noticed a big improvement in my symptoms by taking niacin before POIS and Kurtosis' treatment regimen (His regimen at that time) immediately after orgasm. All my symptoms (severe cognitive, neurological, cardiovascular, inflamed/light sensitive eyes, fatigue, muscle weakness) felt 80% better. I was having orgasms once per week (more than I have ever had in my POIS time) and hardly felt any symptoms. I was able to do some testing during this period and the results read over 700 for testosterone.

More recently, the treatments have become less and less effective over time. Whether it was just a matter of tolerance or if taking supplements immediately after orgasm had a negative effect I'm not sure. I have begun to get worse over time. I am still better than I was a while back but the gap isn't very wide.  I had a test just a week or two ago and my testosterone once again read in the 400's.

My testosterone testing:

3/28/11 - 499
7/18/11 - 422
6/14/12 - 730 (When I felt good)
8/13/12 - 486

Testosterone is the only thing I have ever found anything like this with. I don't believe that this is the explanation for my POIS because my problems are so widespread and severe. I do wonder how much of it could be due to low testosterone. Also I wonder of the possibility if my testosterone actually does belong in the 400's and the supplements I started to take just provided a boost and masking effect of my POIS. Then again, it is always possible that the supplements, which could have boosted my testosterone, could have helped with inflammation and drive and mental clarity.

I would love to hear the opinions of the many intelligent people in this forum.

Thanks and I continue to wish you all the best,

Jon.

[Porke]

John, out of curiousity, what supplements were you taking to boost test this high?

I have been trying to do this myself over the last week using DIM and Calcium D Glucarate. Ive read many peeps on bodybuilding forums have had good experiences with this combo. Not sure how its worked thus far, I got flu this week and im feeling pretty out of it with all the flu meds.

[demografx]

Jon, in my case, low testosterone seemed to be the culprit in ALL my POIS symptoms, some of them bizarre (e.g.  strangely painful fingertips).

TRT patches, 10 mg day/365 days/year do the trick for me. After 30+ years severe, agony-filled POIS.

However, I think I lost my sperm count in the process. NOT OK if you're younger and want kids. So check out fertility risks carefully!

ps - Jon, thank your for your very generous invitation to your Massachusetts restaurant!

[demografx]

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