Author Topic: Testosterone  (Read 355117 times)

demografx

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #220 on: March 26, 2017, 06:05:15 PM »
In case anyone is curious/interested, my daily dose is now 2mg/day Androderm testosterone patch. Previously double (4mg). My primary care doc is now happier with my reduced treatment due to potential cardiac side effects :)


« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 01:54:22 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Spartak

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #221 on: April 08, 2017, 12:19:46 AM »
Sorry guys if this is wrong section for this post, but maybe it can be useful in some statistics.
I tested my testosteron leves, total and free, both were in normal range for my age.
Total: 18,2 nmol/L   normal range:(8,33-30,19)
Free: 14,37 pg/mL normal range: (7-22,7)
no sugar diet helps me a tiny bit, also makes my mind much calmer in general. Sugar is definitely something my body does not handle well. Also I noticed that other inflammations like a hangover are better since I quit sugar. I avoid sweet fruits as well.

demografx

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #222 on: April 12, 2017, 12:39:10 AM »
Thanks for posting, Spartak.
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #223 on: April 28, 2017, 08:37:42 PM »
Cardiac risk?


Soon after I started TRT (testosterone replacement therapy), in 2008, via "patches", I had an emergency open heart surgery (5-way bypass) performed.

There's no evidence that the 2 are linked in any way but it's suspicious enough (in my case). Post-edit: I just realized that so much plaque obstruction which led to my surgery couldn't have happened so fast. Still, my primary care doc has not been thrilled with my TRT since the surgery, so...we both recently decided to cut my dose in half.

I've made indirect references to all of this before but I never before connected the dots/posted this way in one single post.

Be careful, everyone!
Best wishes,
Demo



« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 07:28:17 AM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

crushgrapes

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #224 on: May 15, 2017, 08:55:30 PM »
Hey guys I'm back with some report and I got some OK and good news.

Good news,
TRT brings my POIS symptoms to few hours to 1 day most.
Ok news,
I don't believe TRT is a cure for my POIS.

I'm actually looking into my high level of 17-OHP or 17-Hydroxyprogesterone. From my understanding is that my 17-OHP is high or "clogged" because I am deficient in this particular enzyme called 21-hydroxylase and if you look at the flow chart, without 21-hydroxylase it prevents producing normal levels of cortisol. Perhaps low cortisol might play a role in POIS?

http://img.medscapestatic.com/pi/meds/ckb/00/43300.jpg

This study shows that sexual stimuli decreases cortisol so if my cortisol is low in the first place, having orgasm will decrease it further causing POIS symptoms?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2703719/

This overall condition is called congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH).
More information relating to low cortisol/testosterone through here.
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=11123.0

I would like to get off TRT if possible cause I don't really want to pin for the rest of my life unless I absolutely have to if the low cortisol issue is not related to POIS. I booked a endo to do a ACTH test to measure my adrenal functionality which will indicate whether I have CAH or not. The only treatment for CAH is through oral corticosteroids, suppose these are dangerous drugs but I read that its not so much if your adrenal already does not produce normal levels of cortisol.

Could testosterone / cortisol intertwine regards to POIS?

I will be back with updates.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2017, 09:12:55 PM by crushgrapes »

crushgrapes

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #225 on: May 15, 2017, 08:59:29 PM »
Cardiac risk?


Soon after I started TRT (testosterone replacement therapy), in 2008, via "patches", I had an emergency open heart surgery (5-way bypass) performed.

There's no evidence that the 2 are linked in any way but it's suspicious enough (in my case). Post-edit: I just realized that so much plaque obstruction which led to my surgery couldn't have happened so fast. Still, my primary care doc has not been thrilled with my TRT since the surgery, so...we both recently decided to cut my dose in half.

I've made indirect references to all of this before but I never before connected the dots/posted this way in one single post.

Be careful, everyone!
Best wishes,
Demo

Thanks for the heads up.

joelawerence

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #226 on: May 16, 2017, 09:04:20 AM »
Hey guys I'm back with some report and I got some OK and good news.

Good news,
TRT brings my POIS symptoms to few hours to 1 day most.
Ok news,
I don't believe TRT is a cure for my POIS.

I'm actually looking into my high level of 17-OHP or 17-Hydroxyprogesterone. From my understanding is that my 17-OHP is high or "clogged" because I am deficient in this particular enzyme called 21-hydroxylase and if you look at the flow chart, without 21-hydroxylase it prevents producing normal levels of cortisol. Perhaps low cortisol might play a role in POIS?

http://img.medscapestatic.com/pi/meds/ckb/00/43300.jpg

This study shows that sexual stimuli decreases cortisol so if my cortisol is low in the first place, having orgasm will decrease it further causing POIS symptoms?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2703719/

This overall condition is called congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH).
More information relating to low cortisol/testosterone through here.
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=11123.0

I would like to get off TRT if possible cause I don't really want to pin for the rest of my life unless I absolutely have to if the low cortisol issue is not related to POIS. I booked a endo to do a ACTH test to measure my adrenal functionality which will indicate whether I have CAH or not. The only treatment for CAH is through oral corticosteroids, suppose these are dangerous drugs but I read that its not so much if your adrenal already does not produce normal levels of cortisol.

Could testosterone / cortisol intertwine regards to POIS?

I will be back with updates.

Thanks Crushgrapes for the update. How long have been doing TRT and have you checked what your testosterone level is now? Also other than reduction in duration of POIS symptoms has there been any improvement in symptoms severity?

I suppose you have to give TRT a longer trial to see how it works either way, as testosterone will take time to increase over a period of time.
33 years old, POIS for around 12 years with increasing severity.
Major symptoms - Severe fatigue, back pain, unrefreshed even after 9+ hours sleep, pain behind eyes, very dry face, bald head with inflamed scalp, digestion issues and constipation. Very low testosterone and high glucose in blood tests

crushgrapes

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #227 on: May 17, 2017, 08:33:23 PM »
Hey joelawerence,
I've have been on TRT about a month, I don't know my test level as I have not done the test yet but for sure its higher than my base level at 300. My symptoms severity went down I would say about 90% and I would feel absolutely fine the next day. One interested note is that when I did my first injection I felt front of my brain behind forehead being "lit up", a tingling sensation that never happen again after initial injection.

Limitbreaker

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #228 on: June 02, 2017, 07:32:25 AM »
I am self-medicating TRT. Has anyone who tried TRT succeeded in further reducing symptoms, when on TRT? I'd say TRT removes most of the stuff for me, but has anyone gone step further? This is only beginning of taking it (I'm about ~1,5 weeks in) so it'll get better. Nevertheless I thought I should ask.

I'm thinking I have low cortisol, I yet have to test it.

joelawerence

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #229 on: June 05, 2017, 04:11:49 AM »
I am self-medicating TRT. Has anyone who tried TRT succeeded in further reducing symptoms, when on TRT? I'd say TRT removes most of the stuff for me, but has anyone gone step further? This is only beginning of taking it (I'm about ~1,5 weeks in) so it'll get better. Nevertheless I thought I should ask.

I'm thinking I have low cortisol, I yet have to test it.

Thanks Limitbreaker for your post. I think it is a little dangerous to self medicate TRT as in the long run you will need to monitor other hormone levels like Estrogen which usually increase with TRT. So better to get a doctor to prescribe it to you and monitor you.

What are the symptoms that have reduced for you with TRT and what symptoms still persist? Thanks.
33 years old, POIS for around 12 years with increasing severity.
Major symptoms - Severe fatigue, back pain, unrefreshed even after 9+ hours sleep, pain behind eyes, very dry face, bald head with inflamed scalp, digestion issues and constipation. Very low testosterone and high glucose in blood tests

demografx

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #230 on: June 05, 2017, 07:56:59 PM »
Limitbreaker, I agree with joelawerence.

Self-medicating TRT sounds dangerous to me.


« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 08:00:29 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Limitbreaker

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #231 on: June 06, 2017, 10:40:10 AM »
I am going to test for E2 on a regular basis and act accordingly. I have some Aromasin (an AI) on the way to me. I am also going to donate blood every couple months to reduce hematocrits.

The problem is that I may or may not find a doctor that'd prescribe me TRT in Poland as I am very young (22). I'm a person of doing most of stuff myself. Last time I've searched for a doctor I've found an endocrinologist that was supposedly the best in my area (200km ~), 5 star and so on. Paid her for the visit what is 1/12th of my monthly money and she'd look at my testosterone, which was 245ng/dL at the time day after orgasm and she said it was in range. I am not going to waste money for doctors whom I must educate, not the other way around. I will be looking for a doctor but as a side quest, not as my main quest. I want to eventually find someone who respects how much reading, observing and experimenting I went through to find out what is going on with my body, not just shrug it off like if what I did was completely worthless. She directed me to get gastroscopy and colonoscopy, but the problem is I went to her privately, therefore she couldn't write me scripts for colono/gastroscopy for the insurance provided by the government. So I either wait 6 months to get those medical tests (one is in July, another is in... November), or pay for them. In case I pay for them I get them very quickly, but how many other tests is she gonna require? And eventually, she might not even give me the TRT.

I said to myself: fuck this. I rather pay money for testosterone than pay for a doctor lottery - I may get a good doctor or I may get someone completely useless, which is more likely as I haven't yet encountered a single doctor in my life who was truly invested in his patient. Plus I'd have to wait a dozen months if not more before I'd get better, simply because I do not have the money (and do not plan on having more) to invest in the medical tests. I rather spend that on testosterone (which costs, if we're speaking TRT levels, about 20$ a month tops) plus occasional lab tests that are required (which is maybe 20$ a month first couple months then it goes down as T/E2 levels stabilise). In my opinion testosterone therapy can be managed by oneself viably if one does the necessary research and educates oneself on the topic. Amount of stuff I can achieve outside of POIS mindset in 12 months is infinitely more worth it than spending 12 months on doctor tripping.

I plan to eventually find a doctor, but after I stabilise my own treatment. That might not be needed, though... Because so far it's getting better every day.

I've had two orgasms a couple weeks ago which devastated me badly, I did not expect this going down that hard on me, I'm not going back to this.

As for the symptoms. The way I've reacted so far (it's week 3) only proves my point to me. My fatigue is gone. I can exercise and not crash. I can eat a lot. My mood is more stable. I have healthy libido and a much healthier attitude to women, which before suffered a lot because I'd guilt-trip myself for being attracted to women and I couldn't stop it. I sleep and I feel refreshed when I wake up. I don't feel as overloaded with tasks, appointments, goals and have-to-dos as I used to. I can do a multitude of stuff I used to do and feel good about it, although I have yet a lot to learn (or unlearn) because my mental attitude is still a bit backwards.

My forgetfulness seem to have increased for a period of time. I've forgot to take a few things. I realize why - it is because my confidence went up so much that my usual anxiety patterns that should be turning on didn't turn on. For example I left my tent pack in a train. That's because when leaving the train no red light appeared in my mind "Did I take everything? Let's take a look." because I felt confident. I feel it is temporary and I need to re-train myself to operate in a different mindstate.

As to orgasms, coz that's probably what you want to hear the most. About 5-6 days ago I had 2 orgasms, the second the morning after the first one, which was the day before. That was about 2,5 weeks into my regimen. At first, couple hours after second orgasm I thought, I wonder if this is going to be bad. However the day was pretty ok. I felt a little weakness but nowhere as bad as 3-4 weeks ago when I also had 2 orgasms. Most importantly though, I felt absolutely ZERO mood swing. Previously I'd get very depressed, a lot of ruminating thoughts I couldn't stop, my girlfriend would often have to take care of me and I'd feel I despise her despite rationalizing that I do not, really, and that it is only because of the illness. This time though, completely zero emotional effects. I felt noticeably "slower" in my body and mind, but way towards "relaxed" than "fatigued" on the spectrum!

The next day I woke up after 8 hours of sleep REFRESHED. In fact, I felt like I never had an orgasm the day before at all. If I were some random non-POISer, I'd have never noticed anything off that day. I didn't feel any retardation, emotional swinging, brain fog, demotivation, fatigue etc. that day, but I've noticed some mental slowness and random, short bouts of slight fatigue which I did not have to nap/sleep off, I only had to sit down for a few to several minutes and do something non-exhausting like reading a light book/article or passively listening to music. Before, I'd need 2 naps in the day during which I had to lay completely still, only this would rejuvenate me and never fully. To sum up, I have only knew I was symptomatic because I was noticing it consciously and because I have experienced less or more subtle POIS many times, not because it felt so bad that it was impossible to ignore.

If I ever meet a doctor he'll just tell me I should get off my testosterone immidietaly because doctors look down upon self-medicating. And there is no way he's going to convince me to go back because I feel great and I have my bachelor's degree to write in following months, plus I screwed up this semester (because of POIS!) so I'll have to fix it during September. I still have my ups and downs but they're nowhere as unmanageable as they used to be. The best part is, it's going to get even better, it's only been 3 weeks or so and it is said about TRT that most effects take 3 months to manifest, and the full benefit is from 6th month onwards. It's already good. I've started to talk to strangers like I always liked to. I've started adding mass to my used-to-be-4-weeks-ago 120lbs body. Changes won't be done overnight, especially the mental habits that I've learned over past 3 years, like withdrawing from social life at the slightest glance of fatigue in fear of getting more fatigued. Guilt and undermining decision to orgasm every time I have an orgasm. This mental stuff can probably account for bigger percentage than I realize.

My first orgasm 5 days ago, shortly after orgasm I catched myself undermining whether I should have orgasmed or not. I'm glad I did catch myself doing that, because I do not support this habit anymore, it's redundant. I am still gonna control my orgasms but just for the sake of it, orgasms can fatigue and dull the mind in healthy people not just POISers, therefore it's a thing to be watched. But I don't feel restrained anymore, I used to feel like I have to do hard choices and could not accept the reality. I felt sick enough to be miserable but too proud to be supported.

I think I've written enough. I can't wait what time brings me. This is not a 100% cure right now, as there is some stuff missing for sure. But I am going to stay on it for at least a year and see where it takes me, now that I feel my body supports my lifestyle instead of sabotaging me. I might not even need checking cortisol in a few months because all this stuff can maybe get stable at last, provided the regeneratory benefit of testosterone. Cheers.

demografx

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #232 on: June 10, 2017, 10:42:48 AM »
Thanks for the heads up.
I'm so glad you said that. I was afraid my post put everyone to sleep! :)
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Unvers

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #233 on: June 18, 2017, 03:58:46 AM »
I read in my research about orgasm many years ago that after orgasm the testosterone rise, how it is possible in case of POIS that it decrease? Interesting stuff however.

demografx

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #234 on: June 18, 2017, 05:02:48 AM »
It can be confusing and tricky. Contradictory statements abound if you read everything, especially *some* internet posts.
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

b_jim

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #235 on: June 18, 2017, 03:12:37 PM »
I read in my research about orgasm many years ago that after orgasm the testosterone rise, how it is possible in case of POIS that it decrease? Interesting stuff however.

" Rise " ?
It seems at least, that testicular activity is linked to ejaculation.
Then, we can imagine Poisers have abnormal activity (decreased activity) and then we have difficulty to "raise" the T levels like normal men.
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Lyme disease "cured" in 2020.

demografx

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #236 on: June 19, 2017, 02:56:30 PM »
Yes, b_jim, that's my understanding, too.
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

joelawerence

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #237 on: November 17, 2017, 11:35:56 AM »
An update on my case. I have very low testosterone in the 5.0 range. I have been referred to an Endo who did some more tests and found my luteinizing hormone (LH) to be very low given my testosterone range. If the testes is struggling to produce testosterone then the LH levels should be very high as that is what instructs the testes to produce testosterone, so I have been diagnosed to have secondary hypogonadism. This means that the pituitary gland which produces LH is not doing it's job probably.

There could be two reasons for this - one is increased Estrogen which does a reverse feedback loop to pituitary gland to ask it to produce less LH. Another reason could be that the pituitary gland is a little lethargic but considering all my other pituitary gland hormones are normal it can be sort of ruled out. I don't think they checked my estrogen level so that will be the next course of action.

So anyone having POIS along with low testosterone I would urge you guys to measure your LH and Estrogen levels to check out if there are issues. Then try to increase your testosterone by reducing estrogen to possibly benefit from reduction in POIS.
33 years old, POIS for around 12 years with increasing severity.
Major symptoms - Severe fatigue, back pain, unrefreshed even after 9+ hours sleep, pain behind eyes, very dry face, bald head with inflamed scalp, digestion issues and constipation. Very low testosterone and high glucose in blood tests

b_jim

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #238 on: November 18, 2017, 02:33:00 AM »
After ejaculation I feel cold. I have the feeling to be more resistant to cold temperature when I take vitamin D. I suspect a link between vitamin D, testosterone and ejaculation.
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Lyme disease "cured" in 2020.

Vandemolen

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #239 on: November 18, 2017, 05:41:23 PM »
After ejaculation I feel cold. I have the feeling to be more resistant to cold temperature when I take vitamin D. I suspect a link between vitamin D, testosterone and ejaculation.
I also feel cold. In my case it’s because my prostate is imflamed after ecajulation.
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 50% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.