Author Topic: Testosterone  (Read 267516 times)

demografx

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #40 on: November 12, 2012, 12:06:29 AM »
Thank you, kurtosis, for sharing your in-depth thinking and views on POIS!
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

mperez

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Testosterone replacement and POIS
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2012, 11:32:54 AM »

I am 55 years old and started with all the pois sintoms (5) years ago, I was diagnosed with low T and I am under testosterone replacement, I am using Androgel 1.62% everyday but this isn't helping, it looks like it is worst becasue during sleep I have noctural emissions every night and the next day I feel all the POIS sintoms, extremely fatigue, sinus, itchy body, irritated eyes, sleeppy all the time, dificult to concentrate, muscles ache, eye burning, dificult to talk, etc, etc,.. my T levels are ok now and I tought that this was going to be the solution to the pois sintoms becasue is something I didn't have it in the past, few days ago I had an orgasm without eyaculation by using the Tantric thecniques but pois was even 2 or 3 times worst, I read that it is possible to have an orgasm without eyaculation at all, not even retrograde eyaculation does anybody knows if this is possible? I am trying whatever I read or learn to solve the problem but so far no solution, for now I am using the testosterone evryother day to reduce the nocturnal emmisions, does anybody think that testosterone in patches is better than androgel? Thanks, Mario

LAPOISSE

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #42 on: March 01, 2013, 06:24:34 AM »
Hi all,

I had my testo rechecked : i'm 6,80 ug/l so i'm just in the range for my age - I was 2,66 ug/l 6 month before

What it interesting is the bio available testosterone : i'm 0,90 ng/ml(was 0,57 last test) wich is pretty low by just considering it and very abnormal by comparating it to total testo ; I'm 1,4% and should be 4% at least

First time it was a risk of false result, 2nd time I guess there is something real.

So I guess, there is either a problem of over utilisation of testosterone what leave a few free or probleme for release testoterone and make it avalaible for the body

Do you guys have tested your Bio available testoterone checked ? It can be tricky to just test the total testosterone wich in my case this time is normal
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 06:31:15 AM by LAPOISSE »

demografx

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Re: Testosterone replacement and POIS
« Reply #43 on: March 01, 2013, 10:37:58 AM »

I am 55 years old and started with all the pois sintoms (5) years ago, I was diagnosed with low T and I am under testosterone replacement, I am using Androgel 1.62% everyday but this isn't helping, it looks like it is worst becasue during sleep I have noctural emissions every night and the next day I feel all the POIS sintoms, extremely fatigue, sinus, itchy body, irritated eyes, sleeppy all the time, dificult to concentrate, muscles ache, eye burning, dificult to talk, etc, etc,.. my T levels are ok now and I tought that this was going to be the solution to the pois sintoms becasue is something I didn't have it in the past, few days ago I had an orgasm without eyaculation by using the Tantric thecniques but pois was even 2 or 3 times worst, I read that it is possible to have an orgasm without eyaculation at all, not even retrograde eyaculation does anybody knows if this is possible? I am trying whatever I read or learn to solve the problem but so far no solution, for now I am using the testosterone evryother day to reduce the nocturnal emmisions, does anybody think that testosterone in patches is better than androgel? Thanks, Mario

I apply 8mg a day of testosterone patches, every day for POIS. My endocrinologist thinks gel can be equally effective.
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Ccconfucius

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #44 on: March 01, 2013, 06:37:07 PM »
Hi all,

I had my testo rechecked : i'm 6,80 ug/l so i'm just in the range for my age - I was 2,66 ug/l 6 month before

What it interesting is the bio available testosterone : i'm 0,90 ng/ml(was 0,57 last test) wich is pretty low by just considering it and very abnormal by comparating it to total testo ; I'm 1,4% and should be 4% at least

First time it was a risk of false result, 2nd time I guess there is something real.

So I guess, there is either a problem of over utilisation of testosterone what leave a few free or probleme for release testoterone and make it avalaible for the body

Do you guys have tested your Bio available testoterone checked ? It can be tricky to just test the total testosterone wich in my case this time is normal

tested total, bioavailable and free multiple times.  They were always in range but either towards the middle or lower side.

demografx

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #45 on: March 01, 2013, 08:50:02 PM »
I opted for a relatively high dose of TRT -- it did amazing things for my POIS -- but I might have lost my sperm count in the process. I have 2 grown "kids", so no problem for me.
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

b_jim

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #46 on: June 26, 2014, 01:42:38 PM »
My lipase test show an increased level below the normal range but not enough to be a symptom of pancreatis.

In a 2012 study (the turkish lipid problem : low levels of high density lipoproteins) I found the link with testosterone :

Quote
However, testosterone is a major regulator of hepatic lipase.

It sounds logical that testosterone is down-regulated by lipase, when T-level is low, pancreas release more lipase for better fats/cholesterol absorption and regulate T-level.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 01:46:15 PM by b_jim »
Taurine = Anti-Pois
Lyme disease "cured" in 2020.

Defsync

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #47 on: June 27, 2014, 02:50:24 AM »
Kurtosis theory is probably the best laid out from the various discussions over the years about the histamine cortisol neurotransmitter connection. I wonder if we could post it on the POIS Wikipedia talk page since its a medical theory (and a damned well written one).

Colm

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2014, 03:25:20 AM »
Kurtosis theory is probably the best laid out from the various discussions over the years about the histamine cortisol neurotransmitter connection. I wonder if we could post it on the POIS Wikipedia talk page since its a medical theory (and a damned well written one).
Thanks Defsync,

Here it is below. Reads very well and seems to make some scientific sense. I think he has a science background. Unfortunately, I don't understand it all, but hopefully researchers, Kurtosis or others with science knowledge will read and comment/update this.

Re: Testosterone
? Reply #33 on: November 10, 2012, 05:23:18 PM ?

From Forum Contributor Kurtosis.
Here's a short theory of POIS.

1) A genetic defect in a methylation gene causes an inefficient homocysteine to methionine cycle.
2) Depending on the level of inefficiency, the sufferer will be fine until they encounter puberty or become older and suffer from some illness which taxes the immune system.
3) Up until the point of the first POIS O the sufferer may feel a bit tired or less active than usual but the first POIS O will come as a shock as it's the first time the body has to dispose of a substantial amount of histamine that it's impaired methylation simply cannot handle.
4) Once POIS starts, the sufferer has high levels of histamine that are not being effectively deactivated (increasing their libido and frequency of ejaculation) and impairments in the production of other neurotransmitters (making them slow down and feel depressed).
5) the High-histamine state requires the body to produce more cortisol to control inflammation. The sufferer has allergies etc. and wonders what the problem is but over time they're body becomes weaker.
6) The cortisol produced in (5) steals the raw ingredients for other hormones (including testosterone), producing symptoms of hypogonadism despite no obvious testicular malfunction or adrenal tumour. It's possible that persistent adrenal fatigue may increase the natural wear + tear on the cells of the pituitary gland which may lead to tumours but that's a side issue.
7) The body also produces adrenaline to cope with high levels of cortisol. Again, this contributes to mental and physical burnout. The POIS sufferer now has chronic adrenal fatigue and may feel "wiped out", being unable to deal with even normal stresses in every day life.
 Both the reduced methylation and cortisol steal in the previous points, reduces the production of neurotransmitters. The brain also has too high a histamine load and a negative feedback loop is created such that the brain runs in a suboptimal state with too high levels of histamine and too low levels of serotonin. This leads to persistent feelings of anxiety, even when the sufferer believes they are not in POIS. Indeed, over time it becomes more difficult for the POIS sufferer to figure out when they are in in POIS or out of it. The state of weakness, fatigue and confusion becomes more persistent.
9 ) The POIS sufferer never recovers their former state of wellbeing with adequate histamine clearance and adequate methylation of neurotransmitters UNLESS they manage to kick start their methylation cycle.

Thanks to cheap DNA testing we can actually find out if we have polymorphisms (basically mutations) of our methylation genes. My guess is that we all have methylation issues. They may not be the same issue but they're similar enough to produce a major problem when we process histamine. The inability to clear histamine quickly and the high levels we experience daily would lead to the symptoms of POIS but they would be a result of other issues.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 03:29:43 AM by Colm »

Jmari

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2014, 10:39:57 AM »
So the key to Kurtosis Theory is to get the methylation cycle fully functioning? This sounds complicated but im wondering if folate supplements among others will help with this?

Daveman

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2014, 01:07:19 PM »
@Defsync, @Colm,

I think there's potentially something to the body of Kurtosis's theory, but I've never really been enthiused about the genetic defect cause for this theory.

What does any of us know though?

But I wonder if there is/could be something else that weakens the  methylation system. Mine didn't start until I was older, and undeniably, related to a vasectomy reversal under circumsances which probably produce a fairly high auto-immune load. So in that respect, it could still be coincident with what Kurtosis says, but rather: would it be neccesary for there to be a gene defect for the weakness to be exposed.

I think a first order of business would be to prove that POIS is caused by a methylation deficiency, and THEN look at what could be the root cause.



WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
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LegatoMan

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #51 on: August 17, 2014, 02:07:57 PM »
I really believe it has something to do with Testosterone...

I share many of the same symptoms with the Post Finasteride Syndrome sufferers... http://www.propeciahelp.com/symptoms
Affected since Sept 2008. Very gradual onset of symptoms: Testicular atrophy, low libido, brain fog, lethargy, depression, digestion issues. Worsening of all symptoms the 3-4 days post orgasm.

demografx

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #52 on: September 10, 2014, 07:28:10 PM »
TRT DIARY

For those of you following my Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT) vs. POIS success for 5+ years, my GP recently insisted that I cut my testosterone intake volume significantly (my T-readings have been too high).

So...I am now alternating between 1 and 2 patches every other night (1,2,1,2,etc.) -- 4mg per [Androderm] patch -- down from 2 patches every night. No noticeable difference in my POIS -- but I seem to tolerate heat from sunshine better!

I insisted on (and obtained) medical cooperation from both my endocrinologist and my GP -- who have been monitoring my T-levels -- on taking high levels from the very beginning of my TRT protocol .

Word of caution to anyone contemplating discussing TRT with your doc: my high dose decision (I felt POIS needed that heavy duty combat) may have led to my ZERO sperm count test result. So be aware of FERTILITY RISKS WITH TRT.

But -- in my case -- I now have grown children and don't plan on more :)





« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 04:07:18 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

demografx

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #53 on: September 19, 2014, 05:34:13 PM »
Actual readings:

Component                   Value               Range

Testosterone, total           806                 250 - 1100 ng/dL
Testosterone, Free          201.3  *           35.0 - 155.0 pg/mL

*level too high
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

fidalgo

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #54 on: September 22, 2014, 10:28:52 AM »
Demografx, I have some doubts about the testosterone treatment. Because you are a old user of this forum I ask to you.

1) All pois suffers that tried the testosterone treatment improve their symptoms?

2) All that improve their symptoms have low testosterone in tests?

Thanks

demografx

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #55 on: September 22, 2014, 11:15:07 AM »
Fidalgo, I don't know if TRT has worked for everyone who tried it, and I'm also unsure about reporting high/low testosterone, I haven't seen much at the forums.

But it's helped a few people here.

I tried to get my TRT manufacturer  (Watson Pharma) to do a POIS study , but I was not successful.

Excellent questions, fidalgo , but I think more research needs to be done !


« Last Edit: September 22, 2014, 01:28:15 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Andy451

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #56 on: September 28, 2014, 09:56:14 PM »
Kurtosis has an intresting theory... What would you suppose the correlation between yours and the vagal nerve dystonia is? Is it possible that-

1) A genetic defect in a methylation gene causes an inefficient homocysteine to methionine cycle- would indirectly create over/under activity of the PNS? Which, is similar to the under/over activity we describe w/ cognition/neuro/psych (ex. depression, OCD, myoclonis, confusion, neuropathy). Lol, I hate POIS and love me :) 

I would consider the TRT to help myself recover from an acute episode, yet I have chronic POIS (constant symptoms regardless of abstaining, they get better and worse, never leave). Btw, my testosterone levels have been as high as 900 and as low as 300 on separate occasions.

I wonder if there is a sharp difference or which range in T levels from day to day in some POIS guys because sometimes right after sex I feel as though I have to have sex immediately and actually have a hyper aggressive attitude toward life and ppl. But then about 5-7 days later my sex drive is in the toilet or shoots up again... It depends on the satisfaction gained in the initial sexual experience and severity of symptoms. 

I am 28 and probably would not benefit from TRT unless it would somehow stabilize my T levels.. Does anyone know how stabilization of T levels is achieved?

An aside- I also have a lower sperm count (about 10million 1.5yrs ago). I will get it checked again in about a month or so along with T levels.

I would bet money that my T levels are though the roof after sex. I had them measured 2 wks ago and was at 325 after 9 days abstaining.
28 yo M- POIS for 16yrs (since age 12). Chronic POIS- always there

Tried desensitization for 1.5yrs & was unsuccessful (POIS worse at 1/1000)

 Exercising- (running/light weights/situps/yoga) Ice my perineum. Gluten-free. Supplements- limited success.Meds- Oxcarbazepine/Buspar (past-Depakote10yrs)

G-man

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #57 on: October 01, 2014, 01:37:02 PM »
I had my total testosterone checked about five hours post O, and it came back low at 320. I had the same test done when I was symptom free eleven days post O, and it was even lower at 260. What this all means, I am not sure yet.
31 years old. POIS since puberty. Cognitive and physical symptoms.

Pflug

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #58 on: January 01, 2015, 08:38:31 PM »
I very much want to see what testosterone will do for my POIS. My allergist who diagnosed me as being allergic to my own semen has been reluctant to do so. I was hoping someone out there has a doctor they are seeing in Northern California? Any help would be appreciated. Thank You
Complete loss of focus, extreme fatigue, sweating, nasal irritation, joint pain, headaches and depression. Takes a full week to feel normal again. Hiding from life. Praying for a cure.

demografx

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Re: Testosterone
« Reply #59 on: January 01, 2015, 10:31:18 PM »
I very much want to see what testosterone will do for my POIS. My allergist who diagnosed me as being allergic to my own semen has been reluctant to do so. I was hoping someone out there has a doctor they are seeing in Northern California? Any help would be appreciated. Thank You

I followed the advice of an old school friend I trusted who became a Harvard biophysicist pioneer in early HIV research and he strongly suggested a university-based endocrinologist (why endo? Back then the forum suspected that POIS is a hormonal issue). My friend's reasoning was that universities are research oriented and thus may be more sympathetic to POIS. Many, many docs as you probably know...are not!

This advice happily paid off for me.

I proceeded with the endo to do a full battery of hormonal blood tests and he found a very low count of free testosterone. I was labeled with  "hypogonadism" for my charts. Not POIS! Because POIS is not yet "recognized", but hypogonadism is clearly established in medicine.

Years later I continue monitoring TRT with my GP. In fact he just reduced my dosage because my T levels are too high.

TRT -- as Stef maintains -- has...risks! (e.g., I lost my sperm count -- prolly due to high TRT ).

Keep in mind that TRT for POIS is an "off-label" use, so if your first doc is not sympathetic or understanding of POIS, find another one who is!

Best wishes, Pflug. Put this in your Google search box:
university endocrinologists san francisco

« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 10:47:00 PM by demografx »
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business