Prevention and relief with plant sterols and sterolins (Moducare)

[FloppyBanana]

Hi G-Man,

Interesing;"Likewise, the cardiac anti-arrhythmic drug amiodarone, as well as aspirin, indomethacin, and ibuprofen substantially increase vagus nerve activity"

Dr S Dexter suggested I try ibuprofen for POIS a while back. He never explained why though.

FB

[G-man]

Also from that article:

"Female sex hormones and estrogens, in particular, also exert immunomodulatory and anti-inflammatory effects. Because their synthesis and blood concentrations are under control of hypothalamo-pituitary hormones, estrogen-affected immune functions can be imputed to the brain. Female sex hormones play immunoregulatory roles during pregnancy and in diseases like rheumatoid arthritis and osteoporosis (60). The classic mechanism of steroid hormone action (as described above for glucocorticoids) may contribute to estrogen immunomodulating activity. Estrogens are neuroprotectors (61); they prevent cartilage degradation during inflammation associated with increased production of IL-1 (62); and they inhibit the production of pro-inflammatory cytokines at different stages of their synthesis (63,64)."

[Nightingale]

I wanted to say I got my Moducare in the mail earlier this week. I have tried it out twice, once to make sure I tolerated it well and now to recover from a 2 orgasm night. I'm impressed, more to feedback to come.

Thanks Quantum!

[G-man]

I have been taking moducare daily for the last two weeks. Also I have been doing a water fast for 1-2 days a week, and my POIS symptoms now last 4-5 days instead of the usual 6. More expiramentation is needed, but the results so far are promising.

[Quantum]

I wanted to say I got my Moducare in the mail earlier this week. I have tried it out twice, once to make sure I tolerated it well and now to recover from a 2 orgasm night. I'm impressed, more to feedback to come.

Thanks Quantum!

Hi Nightingale,

I am glad you find it of help for your recovering phase. It has been of help for me, and thought it would also be for someone else on the forum.  Let's just hope this beneficial effect will be repeatable for you !

I totally agree with your safe approach when starting a new supplement  (first tie I took niacin, I went with only 60mg ).


I think that POIS sufferers that would benefit the most from Moducare are those with allergy-like symptoms (runny nose watery eyes, itching, asthma, ....), and maybe also those with flu-like symptoms, especially joints pain.  However, the immune system is complex.  I do not have allergy-like symptoms, and have slight flu-like symptoms, including some muscle tension, some general aching (hyperalgesia), and Moducare helps me with those, as it does with fatigue, too.  Its action on the inflammation process is broad, so, if my views on POIS are correct, it helps temper the pro-inflammatory cytokines release at the onset of POIS.  Theoretically, then, it would help any POISer, but real life does not always agree with theory...hehe....

However, I do know for a long time the beneficial effects of Moducare when I take it for a cold or flu, as well as in prevention of infections when too much people sick around me and at work.  It has been a safe supplement for me, and its effects did not wear off through the years (but i never used it on a regular basis, though, mostly for cold and flu treatment or preventions, and, more recently, during the last year, 1 capsule before sports to help with the post-sport inflammation and immune system backlash ).

I would be interested in knowing what POIS symptoms have been relieved for you, when taking Moducare, and if you took it before O, or only after.

Have a great day!

 

[Quantum]

I have been taking moducare daily for the last two weeks. Also I have been doing a water fast for 1-2 days a week, and my POIS symptoms now last 4-5 days instead of the usual 6. More expiramentation is needed, but the results so far are promising.

Hi G-man,

Great to hear that you've had a measurable improvement with Moducare, reducing your POIS duration.

Since this product has not been tried a lot so far in POIS, I would for sure be interested to know if, apart from shorter duration of your acute POIS phase, any specific symptoms have been significantly reduced by Moducare, and if other symptoms less relieved or not at all.  In particular, since I do not have any cognitive symptoms myself and couldn't auto-test about these, I am curious to see if Moducare helps with this type of symptoms.

Thanks, and have a great day!

[Nightingale]

Quantum, you and I are similar in our symptoms of POIS, I don't really get obvious allergic ones and only slightly flu like with the muscle soreness. Mine is highly energy related and highly cognitive.

On the Moducare: I found it to be very effective in reducing symptoms! I already get about 80% reduction with my previous routine (curcumin pills and olive leaf extract), and I would say the Moducare bumped it up to 90%.

There is a caveat. I began taking Moducare every 4-6 hours the day after, and by the evening dose I started to have trouble cognitively. I would describe it like writer's block, or just a blockage of thought. This has happened before when I have taken too many antihistamines.

So I think there may be a sweet spot for me to find. I definitely will be trying Moducare for my next orgasm, but I will only take a few doses the next day. My immune system is very funky. There was a point where I had to take 2x the recommended dosage of antihistamines to be able to function at work. Then, after my stomach issues improved, I began to get foggy headed again and tried backing off to 1x a day and that helped my mind function better. I then started allergy shots, and ended up stopping the antihistamines completely.

I'll have a chance to try again this weekend.

[G-man]

My first impression was that it made my symptoms worse because my eyes felt more irritated after taking it. However I noticed that it was only the eye irritation that was worse and not my symptoms as a whole. At the moment I can say that I have less brain fog and muscle pain as a result of taking Moducare. I don't know for sure yet, but I believe that I benefit more from taking it on the days leading up to O, than from taking it post O.

[Quantum]

My first impression was that it made my symptoms worse because my eyes felt more irritated after taking it. However I noticed that it was only the eye irritation that was worse and not my symptoms as a whole. At the moment I can say that I have less brain fog and muscle pain as a result of taking Moducare. I don't know for sure yet, but I believe that I benefit more from taking it on the days leading up to O, than from taking it post O.

Hi G-man,

I am amazed at how much human biology and immune system can be unpredictable at time.  Moducare is usually effective against allergy symptoms, and your eyes irritation is worsen by it....interesting, to say the least!....   

However, it is great to see that brain fog and muscle ache is relieved a bit.   This may partly confirm that there is in fact an immune reaction at the core of POIS.  One may say that muscle ache is relieved in a more direct way by the anti-inflammatory properties of Moducare.  But again, it is hard to talk about inflammation without referring to the immune system.  It is however clearer still that Moducare has nothing to do with cognitive faculties, unless that cognitive impairment would be mediated by an inappropriate immune reaction, as it seems to be in POIS.  And that is what I think - POIS cognitive symptoms are, in my humble opinion, caused at least in part by the immune upregulation of one or two specific enzymes (IDO, and TDO ) creating an unbalance in tryptophan, and thus niacin and also seroton metabolism, leading to cognitive symptoms (brain fog, memory problems,...) because of niacin lack in CNS, and also emotional symptoms (anxiety, mood swings, lack of motivation, extreme fatigue, social avoidance,....) due to central serotonin depletion.

[Nightingale]

I just tried again, and didn't do the same protocol with my turmeric (used a different, more expensive supplement and was hesitant to take a higher dose $$). My soreness was definitely palpable, but my cognitive  function seems to be quite good. I went to work and had a good time juggling tasks.

Perhaps that's where Moducare can give me improvement!

[Quantum]

I just tried again, and didn't do the same protocol with my turmeric (used a different, more expensive supplement and was hesitant to take a higher dose $$). My soreness was definitely palpable, but my cognitive  function seems to be quite good. I went to work and had a good time juggling tasks.

Perhaps that's where Moducare can give me improvement!

So, if I hear you correctly, you had less brain fog and cognitive symptoms, but as much muscle pain as usual?  As with many supplements, response with Moducare seems to vary from one individual to another, as G-man seems to have less cognitive AND less muscle pain with Moducare.

I can't comment myself on either cognitive symptoms or muscle pain form my Moducare usage - I don't have those symptoms.

[Colm]

Is ibuprofen also a key to anti-ageing?
=======================

An interesting study (with animals) using Ibuprofen, and with reference to Tryptophan also. Not sure what it all means, but perhaps a positive side effect of using Ibuprofen in a safe manner periodically.

Overview of the interesting study...
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/could-ibuprofen-be-key-to-antiageing-study-finds-painkiller-extends-life-of-flies-and-worms-by-equivalent-of-12-human-years-9935169.html

About this study, for anyone scientifically minded or researchers ..
http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.1004860

Maybe all you guys taking Ibuprofen look a lot younger for your age than the rest of us !!!

Obviously all meds in moderation, or under the care of your Doctor !

[Nightingale]

I just tried again, and didn't do the same protocol with my turmeric (used a different, more expensive supplement and was hesitant to take a higher dose $$). My soreness was definitely palpable, but my cognitive  function seems to be quite good. I went to work and had a good time juggling tasks.

Perhaps that's where Moducare can give me improvement!

So, if I hear you correctly, you had less brain fog and cognitive symptoms, but as much muscle pain as usual?  As with many supplements, response with Moducare seems to vary from one individual to another, as G-man seems to have less cognitive AND less muscle pain with Moducare.

I can't comment myself on either cognitive symptoms or muscle pain form my Moducare usage - I don't have those symptoms.

I should probably retract my observations, I began to become manic after switching to a new brand of curcumin, Theracuramin by Natural Factors. I switched because the extraction process reduces the curcumin to nano-size, and purports to increase absorption and to stay in the blood stream longer. I think it must be crossing the blood/brain barrier, too, so I felt very uncomfortable for about 2 days. The dilemma of trying to help oneself too fast and changing two things at once makes me doubt my conclusions.

I've returned to my old brand, back to testing Moducare more!

[Stef]

"I should probably retract my observations, I began to become manic after switching to a new brand of curcumin, Theracuramin by Natural Factors. I switched because the extraction process reduces the curcumin to nano-size, and purports to increase absorption and to stay in the blood stream longer. I think it must be crossing the blood/brain barrier, too, so I felt very uncomfortable for about 2 days. The dilemma of trying to help oneself too fast and changing two things at once makes me doubt my conclusions.

I've returned to my old brand, back to testing Moducare more!"
[/quote]

Nightingale --

I so admire your candor and your willingness to always share your experiences with honesty.

Best wishes,
Stef

 

[Nightingale]

"I should probably retract my observations, I began to become manic after switching to a new brand of curcumin, Theracuramin by Natural Factors. I switched because the extraction process reduces the curcumin to nano-size, and purports to increase absorption and to stay in the blood stream longer. I think it must be crossing the blood/brain barrier, too, so I felt very uncomfortable for about 2 days. The dilemma of trying to help oneself too fast and changing two things at once makes me doubt my conclusions.

I've returned to my old brand, back to testing Moducare more!"

Nightingale --

I so admire your candor and your willingness to always share your experiences with honesty.

Best wishes,
Stef
[/quote]

Thank you Stef!

There's nothing more valuable than sharing our experiences with each other here, it creates the kind of culture that is necessary for us to improve our lives. You play a part in that too!

[FloppyBanana]

I then started allergy shots, and ended up stopping the antihistamines completely.

Hi Nightingale,
Can ask you how the allergy shots went?
Thanks FB

[Nightingale]

To be clear, I'm taking allergy shots for pollen, dust mites, and dog hair.  I have not had shots for semen allergy, and I have never had a semen allergy test.

I have just reached maintenance dose for the allergy shots, and I have 2-3 years more

[Ccconfucius]

do you think using pure tryptophan during pois episode can make symptoms worse. I have used this batch of tryptophan before without any problems. But when i used it during a strong pois episode caused by to much orgasm, the next day i woke up with strong fever and headache that only stopped in three days  because i used ibuprofen and tylenol.

[Quantum]

do you think using pure tryptophan during pois episode can make symptoms worse. I have used this batch of tryptophan before without any problems. But when i used it during a strong pois episode caused by to much orgasm, the next day i woke up with strong fever and headache that only stopped in three days  because i used ibuprofen and tylenol.

Hi CertainlyPOIS,

How many milligrams or tryptophan were you taking per dose, and how many dose per day?

More or less side effects depends on how many mg of tryptophan you were taking.  Too much at once or too much daily will cause side effects and is not any better than the lack of tryptophan.

I am a big fan of "the smallest efficient dose" approach, and of synergy between small doses of substance helping each other.  For tryptophan, I wouldn't take more than 300mg, and not much than every 8 to 12 hours.  This is already much higher than what can be absorbed through diet. But the important part is to make sure that this new supply of tryptophan will not be metabolized by over-activated enzymes  ( IDO and TDO) as it get to the blood stream and before being able to get to the brain, unless it is like trying filling up a pail that has a hole in the bottom. 

Take a look at the little diagram I have attached, and you will see at the left that an inflammatory reaction (like I think there is in POIS), or simply stress ( cortisol activates TDO ), is activating the transformation of tryptophan in kynurenine. So, if you are in POIS, you may consider blocking those two enzymes together with your tryptophan intake. You will need far less tryptophan to get relief, and avoid side effects of large doses.  In my case, I take only 25mg to 50 mg of 5-HTP, 1 or 2 times a day  (even if recommended dosage is 100 mg 2 times a day), because I take along IDO inhibitors ( like peppered curcumin or rosemary) and TDO inhibitor (like quercetin, or Milk Thistle, which contains dihydroquercetin).

My experience, however, is that blocking the enzymes pre-O is more effective (taking IDO and TDO inhibitors 1 hour before O is more effective than after O).

[Ccconfucius]

do you think using pure tryptophan during pois episode can make symptoms worse. I have used this batch of tryptophan before without any problems. But when i used it during a strong pois episode caused by to much orgasm, the next day i woke up with strong fever and headache that only stopped in three days  because i used ibuprofen and tylenol.

Hi CertainlyPOIS,

How many milligrams or tryptophan were you taking per dose, and how many dose per day?

More or less side effects depends on how many mg of tryptophan you were taking.  Too much at once or too much daily will cause side effects and is not any better than the lack of tryptophan.

I am a big fan of "the smallest efficient dose" approach, and of synergy between small doses of substance helping each other.  For tryptophan, I wouldn't take more than 300mg, and not much than every 8 to 12 hours.  This is already much higher than what can be absorbed through diet. But the important part is to make sure that this new supply of tryptophan will not be metabolized by over-activated enzymes  ( IDO and TDO) as it get to the blood stream and before being able to get to the brain, unless it is like trying filling up a pail that has a hole in the bottom. 

Take a look at the little diagram I have attached, and you will see at the left that an inflammatory reaction (like I think there is in POIS), or simply stress ( cortisol activates TDO ), is activating the transformation of tryptophan in kynurenine. So, if you are in POIS, you may consider blocking those two enzymes together with your tryptophan intake. You will need far less tryptophan to get relief, and avoid side effects of large doses.  In my case, I take only 25mg to 50 mg of 5-HTP, 1 or 2 times a day  (even if recommended dosage is 100 mg 2 times a day), because I take along IDO inhibitors ( like peppered curcumin or rosemary) and TDO inhibitor (like quercetin, or Milk Thistle, which contains dihydroquercetin).

My experience, however, is that blocking the enzymes pre-O is more effective (taking IDO and TDO inhibitors 1 hour before O is more effective than after O).

I only took a 500mg pill right before bed that day but before then i had not taken any for months. I will try it the way you described, i figured 500mg is to much anyways.
I see you mention rosemary, a poiser mentioned it helped them recover faster.