Author Topic: vasectomy  (Read 14824 times)

Pflug

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vasectomy
« on: November 23, 2014, 01:38:32 PM »
Is there anyone out there that has seen a decrease in POIS symptoms after having a vasectomy?
Complete loss of focus, extreme fatigue, sweating, nasal irritation, joint pain, headaches and depression. Takes a full week to feel normal again. Hiding from life. Praying for a cure.

FloppyBanana

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Re: vasectomy
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2014, 11:53:13 AM »
never heard of that working. One chap removed his testicles, partially removed his prostate and had his sperm ducts quarterised. It cured his POIS! Have you seen the video?
FloppyB
30 years of POIS. Mytelase after O with Iceman breathing technique.

Pflug

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Re: vasectomy
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2014, 11:56:22 AM »
Ouch, don't know if I want too. I"m 50 so I am not real interested in having more children. Do you think it would make a difference? A vasectomy?
Complete loss of focus, extreme fatigue, sweating, nasal irritation, joint pain, headaches and depression. Takes a full week to feel normal again. Hiding from life. Praying for a cure.

FloppyBanana

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Re: vasectomy
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2014, 12:03:02 PM »
I don't get why he got his testicles removed. I would have thought quaterising the tubes would do the job. You got to take testosterone replacement theropy after your balls are taken off. I never heard of vasectomy stopping POIS. I have heard one person got POIS after having vasectomy though.

I'm looking into having my prostate taken out and my sperm ducts closed off (in the next year).
FloppyB
30 years of POIS. Mytelase after O with Iceman breathing technique.

Outsider

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Re: vasectomy
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2014, 03:47:13 PM »
The pois isn't linked ? 100% with sexuality
the symptoms can be back with coffee, tea, hot shower, nicotin, sugar
36 years old, very strong physical symptoms past my 33 years,
symp psycho, neuro and physical

Stef

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Re: vasectomy
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2014, 05:00:01 PM »
Is there anyone out there that has seen a decrease in POIS symptoms after having a vasectomy?

Paul,

Daveman had a vasectomy several years ago. He had no history of POIS prior to that, and didn't develop POIS after it.

However, after many years elapsed he had a vasectomy REVERSAL...and developed POIS some time after the reversal procedure.

(Hopefully he'll reply, himself, to your question -- I know he's been very busy with work for the past few months.)

Stef




FloppyBanana

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Re: vasectomy
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2014, 02:50:33 AM »
Thanks Stef,  I stand corrected!
30 years of POIS. Mytelase after O with Iceman breathing technique.

FloppyBanana

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Re: vasectomy
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2014, 03:09:32 AM »
I don't get why he got his testicles removed. I would have thought quaterising the tubes would do the job. You got to take testosterone replacement theropy after your balls are taken off. I never heard of vasectomy stopping POIS. I have heard one person got POIS after having vasectomy though.

I'm looking into having my prostate taken out and my sperm ducts closed off (in the next year).
FloppyB

In addition to the above I realised I most likely need done is a vesiculectomy (removal of seminal vesicle). This what Animus had done although in the video of him it only said he had prostate taken out and sperm ducts closed off, and also testicles removed. I saw from one of his old posts that he had a painful growth on one of his balls. Upon removal of his testicles he noted NO REDUCTION OF POIS. Thus if someone were to walk down the same solution path as Animus it would most likely not necessitate the removal of testicles.

Animus' goal in eliminating POIS was reducing semen to stop POIS. Not really any medical proof to back up this strategy but IT DID WORK (FOR HIM).

It took him 5 days to recover from the vesiculectomy in hospital. Goodness me it must have been a relief when he got the all clear saying the operation was a success. I have sleepless nights now just thinking about that.

He also had the prostate reduction procedure called TURP. Below are quotes from Animus about the two opps:

3. The removal of the Seminal Vesicles. I did this too. These glands contribute up to 60% of Seminal fluid- if I remember correctly... I think there is a chart somewhere here with the information. Their purpose is solely to provide a component of Semen, and also are fairly well isolated physically, and purposefully, I believe. So removing them will effectively reduce your Semen volume and will cut down your Semen production. However, they are located deep within the pelvis, and this is an invasive surgery. I was given full anesthesia for a few hours for this operation. Be vigilant and take all possible precautions if you pursue this. From the best doctor you can afford, to keeping focused on safety. There is the possibility of nerve damage which could cause the loss of erection. I was in the hospital for about 5 days in recovery, and there is a long scar on my lower abdomen. However, the procedure was successful, and I would do it again...

Transurethral resection of the prostate (TURP)
4. The TURP- or surgery to shrink the Prostate. The Prostate is an important component to address because it contributes a proportion of the Seminal Fluid. I had a TURP too. It went well. TURPS are fairly common and partially remove the inner Prostate. It is also somewhat non-invasive- as it is done without any incision. I think it's a good idea to first try the Medicine as you say, before the TURP. The medicine is quite effective for shrinking the Prostate- and I use both the Saw Palmetto, and Avodart in addition to having done the TURP. The prostate is always growing throughout life. But it is better to keep it inside, and under control, rather than to remove it they say, because it also functions to control the bladder, and it is in a densely populated nerve area.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 12:49:35 PM by FloppyBanana »
30 years of POIS. Mytelase after O with Iceman breathing technique.

EDS

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Re: vasectomy
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2014, 09:13:51 AM »
I had a vasectomy over 10 years ago hoping it would help with the POIS Monster... it did not! I saw zero improvement in POIS symptoms after the surgery.

demografx

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Re: vasectomy
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2014, 06:47:30 PM »
Hi EDS. Are you the famous EDS from NSF?

Best Regards!!
Demo
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Quantum

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Re: vasectomy
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2014, 01:16:29 AM »
Is there anyone out there that has seen a decrease in POIS symptoms after having a vasectomy?

Hi Pflug, and everyone,

I had a vasectomy 11 years ago.  I did hope that it would help with my POIS, but it didn't change a thing.

This fact can help in refining the search in order to find the original location of the antigenic substance that triggers the hypersensitivity reaction, if there really is an immune reaction at play. If vasectomy have no impact on POIS, this would be a possible hint that the antigen is not coming from the testis, and neither from the epididymis nor the Vas deferens - it has to come from further downstream the male anatomy. This would mean that surgical removal of the testis, or the epididymis, or vas deferans (as in vasectomy) - are not useful for relief of POIS. On the other hand, removal of the prostate, seminal vesicles and bulbourethral glands could be successful for the relief of POIS, if I draw accurate inferences from the fact that vasectomy has done nothing for me ( and neither for EDS), and that some surgical treatments including removal of a part of the prostate, seminal vesicles and the bulbourethral glands have been successful in completely eliminating POIS, at least in one individual ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sdaR18vw1s&feature=youtu.be&list=UUJpZW40Di0JEcM1_SUtw55w , thanks to FloppyB for the link)

This hypothesis that the antigen comes from more downstream is furthered supported by the fact that some forum members develop POIS symptoms after a bowel movement (example: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1032.0 ).  The prostate and urethral glands are just beside the rectum, so if you pass a large and hard stool, it will put a pressure on those, and you may see some drops of liquid dribbling from the urethra (it happens in healthy men as well, it is just a mechanical phenomenon ).  If the liquid is colorless, it is pre-ejaculate coming from the bulbourethral glands (Cowper glands), and if it is white and milky, it is prostatic fluid.  It may be a mix of the two, as well.  This phenomena tends to happen more often when you have refrained form sexual activity for a while, because the prostate is more loaded with fluid.

Some forum members have also stated that they can experiment some POIS symptoms when sexually aroused, or beginning to experiment some POIS symptoms before orgasm, during sexual activity.  That would indicate that the pre-ejaculate fluid from the bulbourethral glands can trigger some low grade POIS, so ti would contain the antigen.  I would like more input on that, for sure.

From the immune theory perspective, that would narrow the search for the source of the antigen to either the prostate, or the bulbourethral glands, or both.

It would be very interesting to have more forum members feedbacks about this kind of "leaking" phenomena.  In my own case, those "prostate leaks" do not trigger any POIS symptoms, so I cannot tell.  I never had "bulbourethral glands leaks", and never noted POIS symptoms before actual orgasm, but it is claer that I produce very limited quantity of this pre-ejaculate (this vary from one man to another)  As both fluids mix when ejaculation occurs, it is hard to make a clear statement for myself.

I also suppose that, for those who have rather constant POIS symptoms, even when not ejaculating, that they may constantly "maintain" their POIS symptoms because of defecating, and urinating too ( I think i read about a member reporting POIS induction after urinating each morning).  Even if no fluid appears out of the urethra, that doesn't exclude that some has leaked out in the urethra, without reaching out.  This would be enough for very sensitive POIS sufferers to have symptoms triggered regularly, making it a low-level, chronic POIS.

Any comments about this?

If some members have had POIS symptoms after having fluid dribbling from their urethra, after defecating or in other situations different from O, please share if this liquid looked like prostate fluid (white, milky ) or pre-ejaculate (colorless, and more liquid).  I would be interested to see how far we can narrow the search for the location of the possible source, or sources of the antigen.

Should I create a new thread for asking this question?  Has it already been asked and discussed before ( I am far from having read everything on this forum) ?

Thanks,

Quantum

« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 01:22:18 AM by Quantum »
You are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259

G-man

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Re: vasectomy
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2014, 04:16:27 AM »
Mine is milky white, but it does not produce any obvious symptoms.
31 years old. POIS since puberty. Cognitive and physical symptoms.

FloppyBanana

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Re: vasectomy
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2014, 08:07:09 AM »

Some forum members have also stated that they can experiment some POIS symptoms when sexually aroused, or beginning to experiment some POIS symptoms before orgasm, during sexual activity.  That would indicate that the pre-ejaculate fluid from the bulbourethral glands can trigger some low grade POIS, so ti would contain the antigen.  I would like more input on that, for sure.

From the immune theory perspective, that would narrow the search for the source of the antigen to either the prostate, or the bulbourethral glands, or both.


I think the main two suspects would the Seminal vesicles and the prostate. For clarity a radical prostatectomy (total removal of prostate includes removal of the Seminal vesicles). This op is done mainly to maximally eliminate cancer risk.

I think safest option in surgery would be to go for partial removal of the prostate (Transurethral resection of the prostate (TURP) ) only as it would have the lowest risk of nerve damage. Nerve damage would most likely result in erectile dysfunction (very approx 2% risk in this type of operation). There is also a low risk (I think less than 1%) of causing incontinence with this type of nerve sparing operation. Given the commonality of prostate cancer its a little bit surprising that there isn't a POISer that has had prostate reduction. Well I am not aware of anyone. Please, if anyone knows different then correct me.

If the prostate (not seminal vesicles - SV) were causing the problem then reducing prostate would improve POIS. Most of the ejaculate (60-75%) comes from the SV. Being able to keep them would mean wet ejaculation would happen. If both the prostate and SV are removed orgasm can be achieved but no semen will come out ("dry ejaculation").

Animus (who had the operation) did not have the cowpers gland removed and achieved 100% POIS elimination. For me I can get the clear lubricating liquid which I believe comes form the cowpers gland. I get quite a bit of it quite quickly and if I stop getting aroused it will not cause POIS symptoms. If I have sex for a long time without ejaculating I can get very mild POIS (this does contradict slightly previous posts I have made. The POIS is minimal here though). So for me at least I think the problem is further up stream.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 12:23:36 PM by FloppyBanana »
30 years of POIS. Mytelase after O with Iceman breathing technique.

Colm

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Re: vasectomy
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2014, 10:59:45 AM »
Really interesting discussion here FB & Other guys,

If this would have a real possibility of eliminating POIS symptoms for any guys and it were quite safe, I would be surprised if the current research team did not (if Demo & others requested) influence for valid information on options here from other qualified medical professionals.

In the situation like a few of us here, where I also have no plan to have any more children, I would jump at the chance of surgery to eliminate the symptoms, if I knew it were a safe procedure.

FloppyBanana

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Re: vasectomy
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2014, 01:13:15 PM »
Hi Colm et al,

I think due to the nature of research they can only take in a narrow scope because of the work needed to be put into confirming there specific postulations.

As I understand it from the title of Dr K's existing study the fMRI scan will be only to observe brain activity. I would have thought it would have been good to scan the whole body but perhaps thats a whole level of involvement which requires loads more funds. Anyhow I speculate.

I found out there are two newer ways of reducing the prostate which have I believe improved results and reduced complication chances. Both are laser treatments and both eliminate the possibility of getting TURP syndrome. TURP syndrome occurs because a chemical is used which dissolves tissues. This chemical can only be used for 30 mins so treatment time cannot be extended past this. The laser treatment does not have these time pressures as well. See below:

1) Holmium laser enucleation of the prostate (HOLEP) - a laser is used to separate excess tissue from the prostate into the bladder and the tissue is then removed. HOLEP causes less blood loss, involves a shorter stay in hospital and is suitable for moderate to large prostates. Access to this type of treatment is currently limited in England.

2) Potassium-titanyl-phosphate (KTP) laser vaporisation of the prostate - this involves placing a small fibre optic cable into the urethra (the opening through which you pass urine) and up towards the prostate. Lasers can then be directed out of the fibre optic cable and used to burn away excess prostate tissue.

Above two procedures were taken from http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/resectionoftheprostate/Pages/Introduction.aspx

I have just been looking the prices and success rates of IVF treatment. Ouch that hurts. But I wonder of someone like me can have a baby naturally. I have sperm count half of the lower expected range at 15 million (should be 30+ Million. Million I think!?). In addition to that I can only provide sperm once at woman fertile period as otherwise would be POIS meltdown.

So I am asking myself do I get prostate reduction as soon as possible. I guess for me I need to ask a surgeon whether seminal vesicle (SV) removal can be done after having the above laser partial  prostate removal. Thats if the partial prostate removal does not work in killing POIS. Perhaps scare tissue from first operation may be an issue in having another op.

It's the SV removal op that scares me at the moment. There is no doubt there are risks with this one. Erectile dysfunction (ED) being the most likely problem. Saying that, if I could trade my ability to have sex with having no POIS symptoms I would do it. I read somewhere that ED after SV removal can take up to two years to get back to being able to achieve any potency. Thats after having the nerve sparing type operation with no complications.

Apparently Viagra can be used to stimulate blood flow to the penis which should be done as soon as possible after the operation. However, it seems that the use of Viagra for post op ED recovery is disputed by some in the medical profession. I thought it was worth mentioning though.

FB






« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 01:24:53 PM by FloppyBanana »
30 years of POIS. Mytelase after O with Iceman breathing technique.

FloppyBanana

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Re: vasectomy (and prostatectomy discussion)
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2014, 01:16:04 PM »
By the way Pflug, Sorry for gatecrashing your vasectomy topic with another topic. I updated the title now.
FB
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 01:21:46 PM by FloppyBanana »
30 years of POIS. Mytelase after O with Iceman breathing technique.

Ccconfucius

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Re: vasectomy
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2014, 02:04:48 PM »
Is there anyone out there that has seen a decrease in POIS symptoms after having a vasectomy?

Hi Pflug, and everyone,

I had a vasectomy 11 years ago.  I did hope that it would help with my POIS, but it didn't change a thing.

This fact can help in refining the search in order to find the original location of the antigenic substance that triggers the hypersensitivity reaction, if there really is an immune reaction at play. If vasectomy have no impact on POIS, this would be a possible hint that the antigen is not coming from the testis, and neither from the epididymis nor the Vas deferens - it has to come from further downstream the male anatomy. This would mean that surgical removal of the testis, or the epididymis, or vas deferans (as in vasectomy) - are not useful for relief of POIS. On the other hand, removal of the prostate, seminal vesicles and bulbourethral glands could be successful for the relief of POIS, if I draw accurate inferences from the fact that vasectomy has done nothing for me ( and neither for EDS), and that some surgical treatments including removal of a part of the prostate, seminal vesicles and the bulbourethral glands have been successful in completely eliminating POIS, at least in one individual ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sdaR18vw1s&feature=youtu.be&list=UUJpZW40Di0JEcM1_SUtw55w , thanks to FloppyB for the link)

This hypothesis that the antigen comes from more downstream is furthered supported by the fact that some forum members develop POIS symptoms after a bowel movement (example: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1032.0 ).  The prostate and urethral glands are just beside the rectum, so if you pass a large and hard stool, it will put a pressure on those, and you may see some drops of liquid dribbling from the urethra (it happens in healthy men as well, it is just a mechanical phenomenon ).  If the liquid is colorless, it is pre-ejaculate coming from the bulbourethral glands (Cowper glands), and if it is white and milky, it is prostatic fluid.  It may be a mix of the two, as well.  This phenomena tends to happen more often when you have refrained form sexual activity for a while, because the prostate is more loaded with fluid.

Some forum members have also stated that they can experiment some POIS symptoms when sexually aroused, or beginning to experiment some POIS symptoms before orgasm, during sexual activity.  That would indicate that the pre-ejaculate fluid from the bulbourethral glands can trigger some low grade POIS, so ti would contain the antigen.  I would like more input on that, for sure.

From the immune theory perspective, that would narrow the search for the source of the antigen to either the prostate, or the bulbourethral glands, or both.

It would be very interesting to have more forum members feedbacks about this kind of "leaking" phenomena.  In my own case, those "prostate leaks" do not trigger any POIS symptoms, so I cannot tell.  I never had "bulbourethral glands leaks", and never noted POIS symptoms before actual orgasm, but it is claer that I produce very limited quantity of this pre-ejaculate (this vary from one man to another)  As both fluids mix when ejaculation occurs, it is hard to make a clear statement for myself.

I also suppose that, for those who have rather constant POIS symptoms, even when not ejaculating, that they may constantly "maintain" their POIS symptoms because of defecating, and urinating too ( I think i read about a member reporting POIS induction after urinating each morning).  Even if no fluid appears out of the urethra, that doesn't exclude that some has leaked out in the urethra, without reaching out.  This would be enough for very sensitive POIS sufferers to have symptoms triggered regularly, making it a low-level, chronic POIS.

Any comments about this?

If some members have had POIS symptoms after having fluid dribbling from their urethra, after defecating or in other situations different from O, please share if this liquid looked like prostate fluid (white, milky ) or pre-ejaculate (colorless, and more liquid).  I would be interested to see how far we can narrow the search for the location of the possible source, or sources of the antigen.

Should I create a new thread for asking this question?  Has it already been asked and discussed before ( I am far from having read everything on this forum) ?

Thanks,

Quantum

You should create another thread, I dont think any one has created a similar thread with that much detail

EDS

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Re: vasectomy
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2014, 10:33:18 AM »
Hi EDS. Are you the famous EDS from NSF?

Best Regards!!
Demo

Hi Demo!
I am still here! Still hoping for the best for all of us!

demografx

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Re: vasectomy
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2014, 08:54:37 PM »
:)  :)  :)
10 years of significant POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business

Quantum

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Re: vasectomy
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2014, 09:00:13 PM »

Some forum members have also stated that they can experiment some POIS symptoms when sexually aroused, or beginning to experiment some POIS symptoms before orgasm, during sexual activity.  That would indicate that the pre-ejaculate fluid from the bulbourethral glands can trigger some low grade POIS, so ti would contain the antigen.  I would like more input on that, for sure.

From the immune theory perspective, that would narrow the search for the source of the antigen to either the prostate, or the bulbourethral glands, or both.


I think the main two suspects would the Seminal vesicles and the prostate. For clarity a radical prostatectomy (total removal of prostate includes removal of the Seminal vesicles). This op is done mainly to maximally eliminate cancer risk.

(...)

Animus (who had the operation) did not have the cowpers gland removed and achieved 100% POIS elimination. For me I can get the clear lubricating liquid which I believe comes form the cowpers gland. I get quite a bit of it quite quickly and if I stop getting aroused it will not cause POIS symptoms. If I have sex for a long time without ejaculating I can get very mild POIS (this does contradict slightly previous posts I have made. The POIS is minimal here though). So for me at least I think the problem is further up stream.

Hi FloppyB,

The case you mention means that Cowpers Gland (bulbourethral glands) may not be the culprit, or show, at the least, that they are not always involved.  If members confirm that pre-ejacuate do not cause POIS symptoms, that will make it to only two possible culprits for the origin for the antigen:  the prostate or the seminal vesicles. 

I think it would be interesting to follow CertainlyPOIS advice and move this discussion in a new thread.

Thanks for your interesting feedback, FloppyB
You are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259