Theoretical discussion of POIS

[emi_b]

I've put the image on the main post.
I'll hope to come with more things and more work, on this topic, when I feel better, because I don't feel good these days.
There are some interesting things with these findings.
I hope there is no problem.

Thank you.

I completely understand. Thank you for your excellent work, Emi_b, it is even more impressive considering what you are going through. Thanks for posting that image on the main post, it looks great.

Thank you. Although I entered the forum, I don't have enough will to do things.

I like the image of the sperm too. Can we include that? make a separate chapter on the sperm component? We can also say that full sperm development takes 74 days. (I'm still looking for information about regeneration of the 95% other fluids)...

I have seen that image, and I have a question: What is the author? There could be permission problems, if we use it on the main post.
Thank you all for figuring out the problem with image visibility.

[Daveman]

Yes it would be good to have a whole theme on sperm and semen. We can start without picture if it's a concern. And look for a solution to this at a later date.

Along the 74 day recuperation data, it would also be good to detail a bit more that whole regeneration mechanism, and work in or detail the 5 to 7 day relationship that seems to tie POIS to this part of the cycle.

As it is, it seems that the 5  day regeneration cycle ISN't relevant. In that, due to the very long epydidimis,  sporadic sperm needs are reduced to a constant production flow into the begining of the epydidimis.

However, perhaps other semen components are more influenced by sporadic demand causing the regeneration stress mentioned.

[Animus]

Hi guys,
I don't remember where I got that image of the sperm, but I'll find out.
So, I came across some other interesting info on this site:http://www.ehow.com/about_5503589_long-sperm-mature.html

There is a little more elaboration about the regeneration time.

Quote:
Time Frame

    According to Fertility.com, sperm maturation---from beginning to full maturity "takes about 74 days." Spermatogenesis is estimated to take six weeks. According to Oulou University, the estimated transit time for sperm to transfer in humans through the epididymis is two to six days, during which the sperm continue to mature and gain movement (motility). Fertility.com notes that sperm can be stored in the epididymis for up to two weeks.

 I thought an interesting note from the above quote is the 2-6 day period it takes for sperm to transfer through the epidydimus... This seems to match the POIS cycle a little closer.  Perhaps what I need to look for is more elaboration like this, and possibly also data on the other remaining components regeneration time. I'll continue to search. thanks.

[Daveman]

Good find Animus, and I agree, I think this area needs more elaboration. I think it is quite important.

[emi_b]

I'm back.

Animus if you want you can write a section for semen regeneration, and I will try to insert it in the right place on the main post.
I saw you found many resources. Good findings.

Thank you.

[Daveman]

Love you guys!

[Animus]

I'm back.

I've put the sperm image on the main post.
Animus if you want you can write a section for semen regeneration, and I will try to insert it in the right place on the main post.
I saw you found many resources. Good findings.

Thank you.

good to have you back, emi!.  Thanks for posting the sperm cell image. It looks really good. I'll work on that section description some more.   The image of the sperm cell is from Wikipedia and is public domain. thanks!

[Habibou]

Semen Content
 
ascorbic acid (vitamin C, for tissue maintenance)
 blood-group antigens (from immune system)
 calcium (mineral)
 chlorine (oxidizing agent)
 cholesterol (steroid alcohol present in body fluids)
 chlorine (base, part of the vitamin B complex)
 citric acid (occurs during cellular metabolism)
 creatine (nitrogenous substance found in muscle)
 deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA)
 fructose (sugar used for energy)
 glutathione (peptide amino acid)
 Glycoproteins (cancer fighting agent)
 hyaluronidase (enzyme)
 inositol (sugar found in muscles)
 lactic acid (byproduct of muscle use)
 magnesium (mineral)
 nitrogen (gas found in all living tissue)
 phosphorus (mineral)
 prostaglandins (good for pregnancy)
 potassium (mineral)
 purine (compound of uric acid)
 pyrimidine (organic base)
 pyruvic acid (formed from either glucose or glycogen)
 selenium (cancer fighting agent)
 sodium (salt)
 sorbitol (body alcohol)
 spermidine (catalytic enzyme)
 spermine (ammonia compound found in sperm)
 urea (from urine)
 uric acid (from urine)
 vitamin B12 (for proper function of nervous system and metabolism)
 zinc (mineral)

Source(s):
www.sementherapy.com/

I guess same as Demo researches !

[Animus]

Thank you, Habibou. It's good to have that information.

[lauracostis]

I would take this segment and copy/paste it right below the section of the male anatomy...
-Animus.

Semen Production Cycle

 1.  Sperm are manufactured in the testes in the seminiferous tubules, and after their heads and tails are developed, they move to the epididymis to mature further.
2. They are stored there until they are ready to be expelled from the body. During ejaculation, the sperm are pushed up the vas deferens, a tube which loops around the bladder.
3.  The ends of the vas deferentia (plural of vas deferens) are known as ejaculatory ducts, and here, the sperm mixes with semen from the seminal vesicles.
4.  The ducts lead to the urethra; the prostate adds its secretions to the fluid at this time.
The Cowper's glands, or bulbourethral glands, also add secretions.
5.  The semen with all the sperm and secretions is then ejaculated through the rest of the urethra and out into the woman's body.

I see that the part about the regeneration time is not included. And that's fine for the moment, because there seems to be a conflict. Up until now I've heard that the regeneration time is near the same 5 days that POIS seems to last. And such is a factor in the theory of POIS itself being related to sperm regeneration. But Animus's article indicates 74 days.

I think it's important that we eventually include the regeneration time in the main post, but let's look it up and clear up this conflicting information.

Thx.

in relation to the sperm regeneration question.  This 5 day sperm regeneration period is the time that it takes for the final conversion of sperm in the epididymis.  This is the most important part, because it is the part that is triggered by sperm loss/ejaculation.  when we ejaculate and lose sperm, the sperm that have been constantly produced and maturing over the last two and half months are sent to the epididymis.  There is a testosterone spike that corresponds with the maturation of the sperm in the epididymis, the testies produce increased amounts of testosterone which in turn cause the maturation process to occur.  A member of the NSF purchased a article on testosterone levels after ejaculation probably about a year ago.  it shows that after ejaculation the loss of the small amount of matured sperm from the epididymis causes testosterone levels to rise from the normal baseline for 7 days, once the small amount of mature sperm are replaced on day 7 testosterone levels fall back to baseline rapidly by day 8.  so on day 7 the total testosterone spike from baseline has returned to normal.  From days 0-5 there is a slow gradual increase in testostrone, from day 6-7 there is a huge spike in testosterone, it is believed that this spike pushes testosterone levels past the threshold of the hypothalamic-pituitary axis and turns the entire process off.  In the article it said that everybody has this 7 day cycle.  It also states that if you have an ejaculation before the end of this 7 day cycle the cycle will just start over again and will last for another 7 days.  If you dont wait 7 days between every ejaculation you will be in the beginning of this cycle continuously.   This is the reason in the past that I have talked about one of the neuro-endocrine chemicals involved with the process of sperm regeneration being the culprit for an immunological reaction.  this would make much more sense that this antigen that is causing an immune reaction is continues during this week long process than just a single exposure to something like your own semen lasting 7 days.  

the article is called "A research of on the relationship between ejaculation and serum testosterone level in men"

[Animus]

Lauracostis,
your above post is fascinating. I would like to read the article you refer to. do you have a link to it? Please PM me or otherwise post.   One of the reasons I'm excited is because we're starting to see that there is a relationship between the period of semen regeneration and the period of POIS. However tentative it might be at the moment. I would like to cite this data in our main page post and formalize it. But I would need a specific footnote or reference. Thank you.
best regards,
Animus

[lauracostis]

Lauracostis,
your above post is fascinating. I would like to read the article you refer to. do you have a link to it? Please PM me or otherwise post.   One of the reasons I'm excited is because we're starting to see that there is a relationship between the period of semen regeneration and the period of POIS. However tentative it might be at the moment. I would like to cite this data in our main page post and formalize it. But I would need a specific footnote or reference. Thank you.
best regards,
Animus

check your messages and then I will send it to you in an email

[Animus]

Hi guys,
After reading the article that LC sent me, I've worked on some illustrations we could perhaps use in our thread.  Let me know what you think. i've tried to keep it as theory-neutral as possible and just take one small step...
There are 4 illustrations with text next to them. They are meant to be seen somewhat in succession 1-4.
Let me know what you think.  
Animus

[Animus]

Fig.2 attached

[Animus]

Fig.3 attached

[Animus]

Fig.4 attached.

[lauracostis]

good job on the graphs animus.

[Animus]

good job on the graphs animus.

thanks lc. I just re-uploaded them this weekend and they are much sharper now because Emi suggested saving them as PNG instead of PDFs and that made a difference!

[Daveman]

The graphs are great, thank for the effort Animus.

I think they deserve to be "published" with our summary up to now. They help to clarify a doubt that arised over the difference between the 74 day maturation cycle and the length of the POIS cycle. So rather than being related to sperm maturation, it seems more related to accelerated spermatogenisis.

There are still doubts however, the part in yellow, the POIS duration cycle ranges from 4 to 21 days, or even longer in some cases and conditions.

I often have sessions of 14 days sometimes of 21 days.

This may not mean that the "theory" is not right, however we do need to look at why this variation could exist. Like perhaps one is less sensitive to the testosterone feedback signal, and therefore produce sperm for longer periods, or the capacity for sperm regeneration in some is much lower.... and not least, why do WE suffer during this regeneration period?

Thanks. All of this counts and is very useful. And in our serious and meticulous way, we should continue filling in pieces of the puzzle.

[emi_b]

Thank you Animus.
 
When I started this thread I haven't seen what a huge task would be to complete it. Now I don't have enough will and productive* time do it.
I think I'll let it in this state for a while. If you have an idea I would like to know.

How the images you made should be presented?
Something like this? It seems that the images are shrink when are inserted in text. (My mistake)

* when I can realy do something

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Semen regeneration theory: