Theoretical discussion of POIS

[emi_b]

Note: I will keep this thread open for anyone who might want to continue it.

This post contains many of my opinions and I do not guarantee that all what I post here is correct.
If you have an idea, or you want to contribute to this thread write you are welcomed.
Read it with a grain of salt.
Best wishes.

A.  THEORETICAL REFERENCE

1. Male reproductive system


(Image taken from Wikipedia)

Testes:
Seminal vesicle:
Prostate:


2. Orgasm and ejaculation

Neuroendocrine response to orgasm during sexual arousal in healthy men

A summary and approximative table with data taken from this article^x).

Hormone	Blood level during:
	Sexual arousal or	Orgasm	Postorgasmic
	masturbation
Epinephrine	raising pattern	highest (>100% increase)	immediate return to basal level
Norepinephrine	raising pattern	highest level	return to basal level in 10 min
Cortisol	unaltered	slight decrease	slight decrease
Prolactin	small increase	significantly increased	remain significantly increased
Oxytocin	constant level	constant level	an increase for 10 minutes
Vasopressin	Unaltered	Unaltered	Unaltered
LH	Unaltered	Unaltered	Unaltered
FSH	Unaltered	Unaltered	Unaltered
Testosterone	Unaltered	Unaltered	Unaltered

Note: I've highlighted moderate increases with orange, high increases with red and moderate decrease with light blue. Constant and unchanged levels are left uncoloured.

3. Semen
The pie chart was made by Animus

Semen composition:
Inorganic components:
Organic components:

Semen Production Cycle (writen by Animus)
1.  Sperm are manufactured in the testes in the seminiferous tubules, and after their heads and tails are developed, they move to the epididymis to mature further.
2.  They are stored there until they are ready to be expelled from the body. During ejaculation, the sperm are pushed up the vas deferens, a tube which loops around the bladder.
3.  The ends of the vas deferentia (plural of vas deferens) are known as ejaculatory ducts, and here, the sperm mixes with semen from the seminal vesicles.
4.  The ducts lead to the urethra; the prostate adds its secretions to the fluid at this time.
The Cowper's glands, or bulbourethral glands, also add secretions.
5.  The semen with all the sperm and secretions is then ejaculated through the rest of the urethra and out into the woman's body.

B.  P.O.I.S. PATHOGENESIS

In present (2011) there is a single theory presented and studied in a scientific paper: the autoimmune hypotesis described by Dr. Waldinger.
The rest of them are mostly suggested here on the forum.

Autoimmune hypotesis:
This hypotesis was formulated in the first articleⁱ⁾ of Dr. Waldinger and described more in the last two papers^iv)v) of Dr. Waldinger.

Neuroendocrine hypothesis:

Semen regeneration theory:

The following graphs were made by Animus:







REFERENCES:

1. POIS research:
ⁱ⁾Waldinger M. D., Schweitzer D. H. (2002) Postorgasmic Illness Syndrome: Two Cases
ⁱⁱ⁾ Prof. Dr. Waldinger's POIS website
ⁱⁱⁱ⁾Ashby J, Goldmeier D. (2010) CASE REPORT: Postorgasm Illness Syndrome—A Spectrum of Illnesses
^iv) Waldinger M. D., Meinardi M. M.H.M., Zwinderman A. H., Schweitzer D. H. (2011) Postorgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS) in 45 Dutch Caucasian Males: Clinical Characteristics and Evidence for an Immunogenic Pathogenesis (Part 1)
^v) Waldinger M. D., Meinardi M. M.H.M., Schweitzer D. H. (2011) Hyposensitization Therapy with Autologous Semen in Two Dutch Caucasian Males: Beneficial Effects in Postorgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS; Part 2)
^vi)
vii)
2. Sexual arousal, orgasm etc.:
^x)Specificity of the neuroendocrine response to orgasm during sexual arousal in men (2003)
3. Semen composition:
4. Immune system:
5. General:
^xx)

[Habibou]

great research ! We can try to find those standards easily for the hormones section 

[emi_b]

great research ! We can try to find those standards easily for the hormones section 

Thanks, I have a lot of ideas for this topic and a lot of work.

[emi_b]

I have a request for anyone, who believe this topic will be helpfull for us.

Could you please provide to me here all sites that you know (preferably written by specialists), researches regarding male anatomy, orgasm, immunology, autoimmune diseases, endocrinology, neurotransmitters, even neurology or anything you think it might help and would give more light on POIS? If it is possible also try to provide a little description of what you found, and how you think it will help.

I'll show something that I found yesterday on the Internet regarding immune system on The Merck Manual:

• Immunology
• Autoimmune diseases

Also I found two "free" chapters from Cellular and Molecular Immunology, Updated Edition, 6th Edition. Enter the link, and in the middle of the page you'll find the chapters as PDF files.

I think we need many existing researches and medical information to create a more complete and exact image of how POIS works.

Thank you.

NOTES:

• I'll try to do my best to extract and glue together all the data from these resources, and to come up with things presented in a logically manner.
• I don't promise that I will come up finally with anything. But it worth trying. If this happen, even in this situation I hope that all help provided would be usefull in future.

EDIT: There is also a thread on the forum for researches pertaining to POIS, if there is a problem posting here let me know.

[Daveman]

Please everybody, if you can help out with this it will be very useful. emi_b is a wizard at order, and is also willing to wade through some of the stuff to find more pertenant information. We're looking into forming a mini-wiki as part of the new page. I'd like to be able have a sort of dynamic database organized information system.

So depending on how this part of the porject goes, we'll see what we're working with and decide on format and platforms from there. One way or another we'll use the information.

Sometimes when money and donation is an issue, the next best thing is lending a hand.

Thanks again all.

Daveman

[Animus]

emi_b,
This is really great! Thank you for creating this thread! I especially like the graphics and illustration. This will be very useful and fun.

[Habibou]

just some semen components :    carnitine, zinc, fructose = color and taste
                                               
                                               proteins (we have to know more about it), sodium, calcium, magnesium, phosphor, potassium.

                                               cholesterol vitamins C and B12, testosteron
         
                                               arginine, glutathione,creatin , L-carnitine, sorbitol , l’inositol and a twin of ocytine
                                                 
                                               cytokines

and many more

[emi_b]

Thanks Habibou,

Do you have a reference for all this data? It is better to have scientific verified data, this would give credibility to this post.
I am sure that your info is good, but that is my way of work for this, and a doctor reading this would be happy to have all those references mentioned there.

One thing that helps me: if you use the data from Wilipedia articles you can take a look at the reference section of them and many times it gives you more info than the article itself. We should use all those references. Scientific articles also have a reference section which would be helpfull in the search for info.

Regarding proteins in semen I've found an article who might give more light into this.
I've started a topic at the books and references section of the forum for that article.
You can take a look at it. I didn't read the article, only some parts of it. It is almost cripted for nonspecialists like me.

emi_b

[demografx]

emi_b, your work is enormously impressive!

I can understand the graphics even when I'm in-POIS! 

[Habibou]

Yes, i understand ! The matter is "i got info in some forums...  " so, it was like a summery !

I found out the "seminal liquid components" (to complete perhaps)  :

The exact composition of seminal fluid is detailed below:
Composition of seminal fluid
Quantity: 2 to 6 ml
PH value: 7 to 8 (slightly alkaline buffer)
Secretions of seminal vesicles: 75% of the volume, secretion and alkaline fructose (1.5 to 6.5 mg / ml), phosphorylcholine, ascorbic acid
Prostatic secretions: 20 to 25% by volume, biogenic amines (spermidine, spermine), citric acid, cholesterol, phospholipids, proteases affected the liquefaction of the ejaculate (fibrinolysin, fibrinogenase)
Other components: phosphate buffer and bicarbonate, prostaglandins, hyaluronidase, cellular waste from the cells of Sertoli cells at early stages of spermatogenesis, lymphocytes.


http://www.comlive.net/Liquide-seminal,111018.htm  ( french forum where i found it out)
If we take the immune semen allergy theory... IF we have mild symptoms while getting aroused it means we have an allergy (or some reaction whatever it is called) to one of those components !

[emi_b]

Yes, i understand ! The matter is "i got info in some forums...  " so, it was like a summery !

I found out the "seminal liquid components" (to complete perhaps)  :

The exact composition of seminal fluid is detailed below:
Composition of seminal fluid
Quantity: 2 to 6 ml
PH value: 7 to 8 (slightly alkaline buffer)
Secretions of seminal vesicles: 75% of the volume, secretion and alkaline fructose (1.5 to 6.5 mg / ml), phosphorylcholine, ascorbic acid
Prostatic secretions: 20 to 25% by volume, biogenic amines (spermidine, spermine), citric acid, cholesterol, phospholipids, proteases affected the liquefaction of the ejaculate (fibrinolysin, fibrinogenase)
Other components: phosphate buffer and bicarbonate, prostaglandins, hyaluronidase, cellular waste from the cells of Sertoli cells at early stages of spermatogenesis, lymphocytes.

THANK YOU,

Your info was good and very detailed from the first time, only that I wanted to have a medical reference to post on the reference section.
I haven't updated the post for a wile, I'll see when I have more time to add all your data.

If we take the immune semen allergy theory... IF we have mild symptoms while getting aroused it means we have an allergy (or some reaction whatever it is called) to one of those components !

I've read that arousal alone stimulate the production of a pre-ejaculate fluid, which I think it could contain the allergens, in a modest quantity, which generate the post arousal symptoms. In my oppinion this explains the mild symptoms after arousal.
(I also have mild symptoms only from arousal)

UPDATE: I found this article: http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi/content/full/26/4/459, for physical and chemical properties of human semen. There is a great amount of data there.

[Habibou]

Yes, great website ! 
I remember Demo or someone else found out the exact components of sperm/semen and posted it on the NSF , it would be great if we find it !

[emi_b]

It seems that the first post of B_Jim also contains the components of semen:

-------------------------------------------
"Composition of Semen
According to Sandor Gardos, Ph.D, the former About Sexuality Guide, it
contains very modest quantities of the following substances...

ascorbic acid, blood-group antigens, calcium, chlorine, cholesterol,
choline, citric acid, creatine, deoxyribonucleic acid, fructose,
glutathione, hyaluronidase, inositol, lactic acid, magnesium,
nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, purine, pyrimidine, pyruvic acid,
sodium, sorbitol, spermidine, spermine, urea, uric acid, vitamin B12,
and zinc."
-------------------------------------------

I think that the semen composition is crucial for our understanding of POIS.

UPDATES - more resources found:  
  Biochemical analysis of human semen [discovered in the references section of the previous article]
  http://www.gfmer.ch/Endo/PGC_network/Semen_analysis_rrumbullaku.htm
  http://www.gfmer.ch/Endo/Lectures_09/semen_analysis.htm

[Animus]

Hi emi_b
When I was researching sperm regeneration I came across this explanation of the process and pathway the sperm goes through. It is well illustrated by your section view of the male anatomy.


http://www.ehow.com/about_5453153_long-regenerate-sperm.html

How Long Does it Take to Regenerate Sperm?
By Andrea Townsley, eHow Contributor
?

Men produce millions of sperm daily, unlike women who are born with all the eggs they'll ever have. The cycle of sperm regeneration takes approximately 74 days on average, so this should be taken into consideration when trying to conceive.

    Production Cycle

 1.  Sperm are manufactured in the testes in the seminiferous tubules, and after their heads and tails are developed, they move to the epididymis to mature further.
2. They are stored there until they are ready to be expelled from the body. During ejaculation, the sperm are pushed up the vas deferens, a tube which loops around the bladder.
3.  The ends of the vas deferentia (plural of vas deferens) are known as ejaculatory ducts, and here, the sperm mixes with semen from the seminal vesicles.
4.  The ducts lead to the urethra; the prostate adds its secretions to the fluid at this time.
The Cowper's glands, or bulbourethral glands, also add secretions.
5.  The semen with all the sperm and secretions is then ejaculated through the rest of the urethra and out into the woman's body.
    
Significance

        Healthy sperm are needed for conception to occur. Sperm are regenerated in a constant cycle, giving each ejaculation fresh, healthy sperm so as to fertilize an egg.
    Effects

        Since sperm are also cells of the body, they receive the same nutrients and toxins that are put into the body. If a man is taking care of himself, eating properly, not smoking or using drugs and getting the right vitamins, his sperm will most likely be healthy, unless there is some kind of underlying problem. However, if a man does partake in unhealthy activities, the sperm will also be unhealthy. The fix is simple when infertility is related to an unhealthy male lifestyle: Stop the problematic habits and the sperm will become healthier. It will take 74 days or so for this to occur, since new sperm take about this long to go through the cycle and regenerate.
    Benefits

        The benefits of waiting for sperm to regenerate before trying to conceive are numerous, but the main reason is to allow a healthy sperm to fertilize the egg, giving it the best chance of survival. Defective sperm can lead to a defective embryo, where there are chromosomal abnormalities or birth defects. Many zygotes with chromosomal abnormalities are spontaneously aborted (miscarried) since they have no chance for survival outside the womb anyway. This is why many couples choose to use birth control for three months after a man has made significant lifestyle changes, like quitting smoking or drinking alcohol.
    Variability

        It is often said that sperm take three months to regenerate, but 74 days is only two and a half months. Still, this may be to account for individual differences.


Read more: How Long Does it Take to Regenerate Sperm? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_5453153_long-regenerate-sperm.html#ixzz1ORRhu3sL


thanks, Animus

[emi_b]

Thank you Animus.

This is one of the things I've searched looked for.

[Animus]

Hi emi_b,  What do think about taking this segment and copy/paste it right below the section of the male anatomy...
thanks,
-Animus.

Semen Production Cycle

 1.  Sperm are manufactured in the testes in the seminiferous tubules, and after their heads and tails are developed, they move to the epididymis to mature further.
2. They are stored there until they are ready to be expelled from the body. During ejaculation, the sperm are pushed up the vas deferens, a tube which loops around the bladder.
3.  The ends of the vas deferentia (plural of vas deferens) are known as ejaculatory ducts, and here, the sperm mixes with semen from the seminal vesicles.
4.  The ducts lead to the urethra; the prostate adds its secretions to the fluid at this time.
The Cowper's glands, or bulbourethral glands, also add secretions.
5.  The semen with all the sperm and secretions is then ejaculated through the rest of the urethra and out into the woman's body.

[emi_b]

I've updated the post. Thank you for this.
I hope I formated well it and it look pleasantly.
Should I add the contributor name? It could be better.

  I believe it would be better that anyone to contribute directly to this, so if you have any thing to add to it write here and I will try to add it on the main post.
  Maybe when a mini-wiki (as Daveman said) will be implemented on the main website, things will be simplified.
  It is hard to work in BCCode, for such a project. (the source code of the post is not very humman readable)

[Daveman]

I would take this segment and copy/paste it right below the section of the male anatomy...
-Animus.

Semen Production Cycle

 1.  Sperm are manufactured in the testes in the seminiferous tubules, and after their heads and tails are developed, they move to the epididymis to mature further.
2. They are stored there until they are ready to be expelled from the body. During ejaculation, the sperm are pushed up the vas deferens, a tube which loops around the bladder.
3.  The ends of the vas deferentia (plural of vas deferens) are known as ejaculatory ducts, and here, the sperm mixes with semen from the seminal vesicles.
4.  The ducts lead to the urethra; the prostate adds its secretions to the fluid at this time.
The Cowper's glands, or bulbourethral glands, also add secretions.
5.  The semen with all the sperm and secretions is then ejaculated through the rest of the urethra and out into the woman's body.

I see that the part about the regeneration time is not included. And that's fine for the moment, because there seems to be a conflict. Up until now I've heard that the regeneration time is near the same 5 days that POIS seems to last. And such is a factor in the theory of POIS itself being related to sperm regeneration. But Animus's article indicates 74 days.

I think it's important that we eventually include the regeneration time in the main post, but let's look it up and clear up this conflicting information.

Thx.

[Animus]

I've updated the post. Thank you for this.
I hope I formated well it and it look pleasantly.
Should I add the contributor name? It could be better.

  I believe it would be better that anyone to contribute directly to this, so if you have any thing to add to it write here and I will try to add it on the main post.
  Maybe when a mini-wiki (as Daveman said) will be implemented on the main website, things will be simplified.
  It is hard to work in BCCode, for such a project. (the source code of the post is not very humman readable)

emi,  it looks great, like you said for now, given the current format, it's excellent. Thanks for getting this started so we can add into it. Yes, you could add the contributor name and reference. --By Andrea Townsley, eHow Contributor--

[Animus]

I would take this segment and copy/paste it right below the section of the male anatomy...
-Animus.

Semen Production Cycle

 1.  Sperm are manufactured in the testes in the seminiferous tubules, and after their heads and tails are developed, they move to the epididymis to mature further.
2. They are stored there until they are ready to be expelled from the body. During ejaculation, the sperm are pushed up the vas deferens, a tube which loops around the bladder.
3.  The ends of the vas deferentia (plural of vas deferens) are known as ejaculatory ducts, and here, the sperm mixes with semen from the seminal vesicles.
4.  The ducts lead to the urethra; the prostate adds its secretions to the fluid at this time.
The Cowper's glands, or bulbourethral glands, also add secretions.
5.  The semen with all the sperm and secretions is then ejaculated through the rest of the urethra and out into the woman's body.

I see that the part about the regeneration time is not included. And that's fine for the moment, because there seems to be a conflict. Up until now I've heard that the regeneration time is near the same 5 days that POIS seems to last. And such is a factor in the theory of POIS itself being related to sperm regeneration. But Animus's article indicates 74 days.

I think it's important that we eventually include the regeneration time in the main post, but let's look it up and clear up this conflicting information.

Thx.

Emi-b,
yes, daveman, this is an interesting point... I've also come across conflicting data on that topic. This article says that it takes 74 days to regenerate the sperm in semen. However, yes, it does not indicate how the other components work within that time period. I am also interested to find that out.  I think as one piece of the puzzle we can put in 74 days for sperm regeneration for now? And leave the others blank? Perhaps they all take the same time, or perhaps they take different times.

Here is some additional data which we might add to the chart in some form, just a start, taking into account your suggestions:

Composition of Semen: Maybe a "pie-chart" for this would be good!?  
there is a chart at this link which is where I g0t this information
1.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semen#Composition_of_human_semen
Testes: 2-5%
Seminal Vesicles: 65-75%
Prostate: 25-30%
Bulbouretal Gland: <1%

Semen Regeneration Time:
1. Sperm take 74 days to fully mature, and are produced at a constant rate of millions per day.

thx