POIS symptoms from just watching porn and touching penis.

[soulution121]

Hi friends.

So my story is that I have been addicted to porn since 10 years old and started masturbating at 11. Since then I have been addicted to both.

In the last 10 years I've noticed something when I abstain from pornography and masturbation. Just looking or even searching for sexual material triggers headaches and brain fog! No masturbation required. And when I touch my penis, even for a few seconds with the intention of masturbation the POIS symptoms kick in. No need to ejaculate. POIS gets worse when I ejaculate but the symptoms start pretty much from the intention of watching sexual material or even the slightest touch with intent.

It doesn't trigger it though when I am urinating or even massaging my penis without the intent of masturbating for instance putting on cream or oil.

I wonder if the dopamine spike causes neuroinflammation which then starts the process.

I had a very bad reaction to decaf mocha yesterday in which my whole nervous system shut down very much like POIS. I was nearly comatose by being bed ridden. I could barely speak.

So far abstinence is helping.

I am currently single and this has been a nightmare for relationships. The only hope for a relationship so far has been Karezza.

Has anyone experienced POIS symptoms from just touch or just watching sexual material. I wonder if there is a pyschosomatic experience going on.

[Quantum]

Hi Soulution,
There have been comments on the forum sharing just that - POIS symptoms just from looking at an attractive woman, or just from having sexual thoughts, or sexual desire. You are not alone in your situation. It is not common, though.  Most members will have to ejaculate to have symptoms, and some have symptoms from pre-cum, even if no ejaculation after.

[soulution121]

Thanks Quantum.

Fortunately I am able to have sexual desire and thoughts, as well as looking at attractive women. Its the searching and viewing of sexual material that is an issue.

I'm wondering if its linked to dopamine and adrenaline spikes?

[Quantum]

Thanks Quantum.

Fortunately I am able to have sexual desire and thoughts, as well as looking at attractive women. Its the searching and viewing of sexual material that is an issue.

I'm wondering if its linked to dopamine and adrenaline spikes?

You surely have a neurotransmitter imbalance vs porn.  I would vote for dopamine because it is the one connected with craving for something, with desire.   

I suppose your brain will take a while de return to normal, after years of addiction.  And you may always have a certain level of "vulnerability" to porn, just like a former alcoholic now sober, or a former smoker who stopped - they will always have to be careful because relapse is always possible. The brain of a former addict is not like the brain of someone who never was.
I find it positive that you can have sexual thoughts and can look at an attractive woman, with no POIS symptoms.  I interpret this as your "natural" circuit still being there. 

Just be careful about what you intend for, I would say, regarding sex.

[soulution121]

Just be careful about what you intend for, I would say, regarding sex.
[/quote]

What do you mean?

[Quantum]

Just be careful about what you intend for, I would say, regarding sex.


What do you mean?

I will explain in more detail my hypothesis, and take in it what helps you.  It is just my opinion, so you have to use your own discernment about it, and discuss it with a health professional if you want to.


From what you say, I think that you have 2 very specific neuronal circuits in your brain:  one that has been developed over years of porn addiction, and the other that is the "natural" circuit of normal sexual thought that is active when you see an attractive woman in real life or have sexual thoughts on your own. 

The first circuit, which I would call the "porn circuit", when activated, leads to POIS symptoms.   The other circuit, the "natural sex circuit", seems to be far less prone to cause POIS symptoms.  What triggers one circuit or the other is the intent you hold in your mind, because, you say that touching your penis with no particular intent, like for applying cream, will not cause POIS symptoms, but if your intent is to search for porn material, you immediately get POIS symptoms when touching your penis.  Our intent is what "steers" the train of the mind, and operates the switches that decide in which circuits our thoughts energy will be oriented.  Needless to say, our intent is a powerful ability, and has to be used very consciously.

So, when I say that you need to be very careful of what you intend to do regarding sex, I mean that you need to avoid any intent to use porn material so that you do not trigger POIS symptoms. You have to "starve to death" the sex porn circuit, by never using it again, and never steering your mind energy toward it.  In neurology, you learn that the more you trigger an used a particular neuronal circuit/habit, the more it becomes stronger and the easiest it is to trigger it.  This is good if you develop a neuronal circuit to be better at a specific sport activity you are in training for, but it is not beneficial for you in the case of porn usage. Neurology also teaches us to that the less you stimulate a neuronal circuit, the weaker it gets over time.

In addition, you are better to reinforce the "natural sex circuit", and having normal, tied-to-reality, sexual thoughts, and normal sexual fantasies, and feeling attraction for real women that you see and meet in real life, because as you say, these do not trigger POIS symptoms for you.  My hope is, that, if you rely on real-life fantasies while masturbating, like having normal, plain sex with an actual woman in real life that you feel attracted to ( no porn scenario), you may have less to no POIS symptoms.   It may need some time, and a very discipline reprogramming of your brain, and imply a clear intent on your part to completely let go of porn and be genuinely interested in normal, actual sex.  The main differences I see between normal sex and porn are that porn pushes on the level of stimulation intensity and objectifies the sexual partner, and normal sex puts more emphasis on the relational, emotional part of sexuality, with a normal level of sensual stimulation, but a true emotional bonding with the other person. 

I hope my explanation makes sense to you !  Let me know what you think of my hypothesis.

[soulution121]

Sadly sex in general causes POIS symptoms. I don't get erections normally like other people. I only get erections while I am completely relaxed or lying in my bed.

Ejaculation with a woman can cause devastating consequences because my mind starts thinking she is the problem. But now I am fully aware of POIS I am not so quick to blame my partner.

Also, the ejaculations themselves massively trigger my porn addiction and masturbation addiction. Ironically used to use masturbation and porn to alleviate the POIS symptoms which created more intense POIS. It was a vicious cycle.

In recovery now. One day at a time.

The only solution for sex I can think of now is Karezza and Diana Richardson's work in Slow Conscious Sex.

Need a partner though...

[soulution121]

Another thing I struggle with the POIS is the intense mood swings. I can turn in to Mr Hyde like personality, complete narcissim and having little to no empathy for the damage I cause!

[Quantum]

Another thing I struggle with the POIS is the intense mood swings. I can turn into Mr Hyde like personality, complete narcissim and having little to no empathy for the damage I cause!

I also had those intense mood swings, and this personality change, while in a POIS attack.  It was hard for my spouse. 
When I use my pre-pack, it becomes manageable.   And, in the last 10 years, we also often had sex with no ejaculation for me, it makes things much easier for me, and for her, in the following days

[Hopeoneday]

Hi, this is some sort of hypersensitive reaction to
high sexual stimuly.
I think that even if you are adicted to pornografy, this shouldnt
be happening to you(my opinion).
This is like "booom" response on high arousall content.

[Quantum]

Hi, Quantum

I've suffered of porn addiction for a long time and I just wanted to say that your brain reprogramming explanation is excellent.

For me, it started at about 15. I'm 39 now and seems like now I'm starting to finally have it under control. I know because I already did it once, when I was 32. I did the 90 days reboot and a bit beyond and it was exactly as you describe: starve the crooked circuit and nourish the good one with patience and dedication. For me, a strict mindfulness routine of a minimum of 30 minutes in the morning every day hass been essential for the rewiring. Actually, I've managed to extinguish all the toxic mental patterns from my teen days this way, which are a lot, except this one.

Thing is that I think POIS's been there since I can remember in my sexual life, but it wasn't too intense and I could cope with it. But in the last years, after I got COVID in March 2020, got much worse and now comes with an arthritis. Both POIS and arthritis fluctuate but I was so stupid to use edging as antidepressant. I edged instead of PMO because O. would kill me for days - I can't afford to O. more than once a week and I reserve this so I can have a sexual life with my girlfriend.

Now I realize it was something truly stupid because I'll have to work even harder to undo this but I was so mentally fogged that this was the best solution I could think of. Also, I didn't know about POIS until a few weeks ago. I thought those were heavy porn addiction symptoms but now it all makes sense. Reading through the forum I've identified myself with so many of the users.

So first things first, now I'm getting rid of the crooked circuits forever, which is something I wanted to do for so long. Also, I believe it's very important to clear my mind of the PMO/edging patterns because as OP said, they could also trigger POIS.

I'm on a 25 days strike with its proper mindfulness discipline and I'll soon start trying methods out of the chart. I can't thank you all enough for the work you've done in the forum :-) I'll keep you updated about my progress.

Hi, newoldschool, I am glad that you have found this forum, it will be of help to help understand and control your POIS.
I am not surprised to hear that COVID-19 worsened your POIS, because after COVID, there is still an unexplained, persistent, inflammation for many.  POIS-caused inflammation will add up, to this chronic COVID inflammation.  In bad cases, this chronic autoimmune inflammation is called long COVID, as you may know.  For you, it may not be noticeable a lot when out of POIS, but an obvious add-on when in a POIS attack.
I feel the key word for recovering from porn addiction is "intensity".  You need to avoid any intense, stronger-than-natural, stimulations, from images, sounds, touch, or else. I always tried to stay away of too strong stimulation, because after a time, normal level of stimulation does not get me aroused anymore.  My ideal is to get aroused by being near my spouse, or by thinking about the pretty woman I saw at the grocery with sexy jeans.   

This is important to master as I age.  If I get use to very powerful stimulation to get an erection, it may become harder to get one when in normal, actual sex life with my spouse.  So, I try to use only very gentle soft strokes when masturbating, to not "downregulate" my brain and physical receptors.  All of our "sensors" will become less sensitive when exposed to forceful stimuli - they adjust to what they are perceiving as the new "normal" level.   

Thanks for your good words about my contributions here, and let us know about your progress !