Niacin Reactions

[Colm]

Having read through what's helping members on the forum, I have been on Niacin for a week. Nature's Way (Non flush) 500 mg capsules.

Am not noticing anything "yet", with exception of on the last two days, am experiencing severe indigestion, about an hour after taking it. I am also taking along with Fenugreek last week also, which I have also seen suggested as helpful. Either of these affected anyone?

Is perhaps 500 Mg too much to take (should I half the capsule), or would you think the Niacin is causing this at all.

I don't want to give up on it, if it will help my POIS symptoms longer term by persisting.  There is no other reason for me to have experienced this indigestion, as I eat moderately and with healthy diet, while also exercising well.

Any thoughts from those Niacin fans out there?

Thanks

[Daveman]

Having read through what's helping members on the forum, I have been on Niacin for a week. Nature's Way (Non flush) 500 mg capsules.

Am not noticing anything "yet", with exception of on the last two days, am experiencing severe indigestion, about an hour after taking it. I am also taking along with Fenugreek last week also, which I have also seen suggested as helpful. Either of these affected anyone?

Is perhaps 500 Mg too much to take (should I half the capsule), or would you think the Niacin is causing this at all.

I don't want to give up on it, if it will help my POIS symptoms longer term by persisting.  There is no other reason for me to have experienced this indigestion, as I eat moderately and with healthy diet, while also exercising well.

Any thoughts from those Niacin fans out there?

Thanks, Colm

It has to be the Flush Type. Very important!

I tried the no-flush type once and had very similar problems as you. There are various types of no flush. Is yours the buffered type, the modified chemical type or niacinamide?

In any case Go for the flush. Take much less than 500 with the flush type. Start out carefully with 100mg on an empty stomach, at least 4 hrs of fasting.

The flush should start in about 15 minutes. It feels like a light sunburn. Can be disconcerting the first few times, but it is quite harmless. Only lasts for about 10 to 20  minutes.

Wait until the flush passes, maybe half hour, and then "dig in".

Repeat, flush type doesn't work AND can be hard on digestive tract and liver with time.

Niacinamide has worked for some. But it's a completely different process in taking it.

Start with the 100 mg of FLUSH type niacin first.

If you don't get the flush, take another 50mg under tongue and wait 10 min. If that doesn't get the flush, take another 50mg.

If you don't get the flush after about 350 or so you probably won't get it. Wait AT LEAST 4 hrs, 6hrs better after eating.

Let us know!

[Colm]

Thanks Daveman. I will try find that. Not sure if beffere typre, although the Niacin label here (image attached I think) says it is "Inositol bound, as it does not produce flushing or gastro intestinal discomfort". Is this the version you meant that I should avoid? 

Non Flush was the only version health food shop had in stock, and it seemed attractive to me (allthough expensive), as I also have, for the same length of time as POIS, a seborhaeic dermatitis flare up post O. It's worse on my on my face (forehead and cheeks) and scalp, so am hoping the flush type will not make that any more extreme or I will not be able to use.

If I don't hear back with any suggestion, I will try get the 100 Mg version of flush. As you point out, the Flush type hasn't helped me so far, so maybe the No-flush will.

Can I be clear you are saying take it 4 hours after eating. This one says, take with food?

I can report back here after a week or so of using it. Thanks for your experienced feedback. Appreciated.

[Daveman]

Thanks Daveman. I will try find that. Not sure if beffere typre, although the Niacin label here (image attached I think) says it is "Inositol bound, as it does not produce flushing or gastro intestinal discomfort". Is this the version you meant that I should avoid? 

Non Flush was the only version health food shop had in stock, and it seemed attractive to me (allthough expensive), as I also have, for the same length of time as POIS, a seborhaeic dermatitis flare up post O. It's worse on my on my face (forehead and cheeks) and scalp, so am hoping the flush type will not make that any more extreme or I will not be able to use.

If I don't hear back with any suggestion, I will try get the 100 Mg version of flush. As you point out, the Flush type hasn't helped me so far, so maybe the No-flush will.

Can I be clear you are saying take it 4 hours after eating. This one says, take with food?

I can report back here after a week or so of using it. Thanks for your experienced feedback. Appreciated.

They suggest to take with food to further avoid the flush.

It should be at least 4 hrs AFTER eating. You say above,
"As you point out, the Flush type hasn't helped me so far, so maybe the No-flush will."
I assume you meant that the other way around. No Flush doesn't help, Flush type should.

I don't really have sensitive skin, but I have not noticed worsening as a result of niacin.

If the No-Flush type hasn't caused problems, I would think that the flush type shouldn't either.
In general (unless way too much is taken) they say the flush is good for your skin.

I am not a doctor, so just take it real easy, certainly nothing over 100mg on the first try.

[Colm]

Hi Daveman,

Further to your last supportive post, I moved on from no-flush niacin and purchased the "flush type" Niacin last week. They only had it in 500 MG capsules in the health stores here, nothing smaller.

I had initially taken it for last few days (this flush one) with food> Was taking less than half capsule, and building up to half capsule with food, and l had a very mild reaction.

I probably made an error today, because I took half the capsule four hours away from food. In fairness, reading back on your post, I think you warned me about this.

I got a serious flush and stinging all over, but also got the shakes for about 30 mins, and had to go with it for an hour or two, knowing from googles I did, it wasn't going to finish me off. But it was a bit scary tbh.

I assume what I would need to do is break the capsule powder into small amounts as you had suggested, and very gradually build up, initially taking not so far away from meals and gradually increasing amounts regularly to de-sensitise against impact.

Please correct me if you have any suggestions otherwise.

Also, it would be good if I could really understand why is Niacin considered a good treatment for POIS symptoms? That might motivate me to go beyond the side effects. I have seen it suggested mainly as a cholesterol medication.

Thanks for support.
Colm

[Daveman]

Hi Daveman,

Further to your last supportive post, I moved on from no-flush niacin and purchased the "flush type" Niacin last week. They only had it in 500 MG capsules in the health stores here, nothing smaller.

I had initially taken it for last few days (this flush one) with food> Was taking less than half capsule, and building up to half capsule with food, and l had a very mild reaction.

I probably made an error today, because I took half the capsule four hours away from food. In fairness, reading back on your post, I think you warned me about this.

I got a serious flush and stinging all over, but also got the shakes for about 30 mins, and had to go with it for an hour or two, knowing from googles I did, it wasn't going to finish me off. But it was a bit scary tbh.

I assume what I would need to do is break the capsule powder into small amounts as you had suggested, and very gradually build up, initially taking not so far away from meals and gradually increasing amounts regularly to de-sensitise against impact.

Please correct me if you have any suggestions otherwise.

Also, it would be good if I could really understand why is Niacin considered a good treatment for POIS symptoms? That might motivate me to go beyond the side effects. I have seen it suggested mainly as a cholesterol medication.

Thanks for support.
Colm

The treatment with niacin is ONLY before your orgasm, about one hour before. It should not be taken regularly, because this desensitizes you to it's protection AND is harder on the liver when consumed regularly.

Our goal has been to minimize the consumption while optimizing the effect.

I divide the capsule into 100 and or 50mg amounts and only take it about an hour before planning to have an orgasm, and take it at least 4 hours after eating.

I start with 100mg and WAIT to see what kind of flush I get. The flush should start in about 15 minutes and last about the same, maybe a bit more, usually less than 30 min. It's a light sunburn feeling.

Once I have passed the flush, I wait another 30 minutes (this wait helps to deepen the protective effect).

Please be careful and don't deviate from the procedures, especially in the beginning until you understand what it does.

The protective effect peaks at about 1 to 2 hours after taking the niacin and only if you experience the flush.

This is why taking it daily and without the orgasm, is of little use, in fact it desensitizes you to some extent against the beneficial effects of niacin.

There are several theories of why niacin works, I really wouldn't want to hazard a guess, it would be little more than that.

Please everyone, when you are taking something, especially for the first time. Start with a proven program, test on the safe side and follow instructions.

Things as simple as nutmeg can be fatal or very uncomfortable if taken in excess.

Since you have been taking a fair bit and daily, I would wait for about a week, let it clear out of your system, and start with the procedure mentioned.

I have had fair flushes with as little as 70 mg and nothing with as much as 500. A lot depends on what your liver is doing I think. So it's important to take the niacin in smaller amounts, and bump it up every 10 min or so if you don't get a reaction. Don't go too fast, because it can suddenly creep up on you. Take it slow and measure the effect of each amount consumed. Don't exceed 500mg. I usually abort if 500 doesn't do it for me.

[Colm]

You have clarified things on a very important level for me. Am glad I checked in so I won't make that error again.

[Colm]

Just wanted to update a couple of things on the Niacin front.

Unfortunately, I can't find my most recent post from mid 2014 on Niacin Flush, so will update a little here.

Note, I am posting this reluctantly, in part to issue some caution, also in part to see has anyone else had this reaction.

Originally, when I tried Niacin Flush in 2013, I had a shock (the severe flush with 75mg) with the flush. I also had the shakes for about 15 mins, and then there was a very pleasurable clearing ironically - felt really calm and well afterwards. I did not use it with an O at the time.

I tried flush a few times and wasn't sure about whether some of the after-effects were worth the initial good feelings/vasolidation?  experienced (for a day or two after) in my own physiology, including moderate exacerbation of dermatitis and body cold feeling. 

About a year back, I tried flush again - just 50MG, had a flush, felt ok until about a day after, and then felt really terrible for about two weeks after.

I tried again on Valentine's day this month - just the 50mg under the tongue as usual, for protection with my wife as it were. Got the flush and felt reasonably ok the next day (about 50% of normal POIS symptoms). However, just like a year back, I have been quite unwell ever since. It seems to have really (just like last year's flush) left my immune system very low. I still have a dull headache, run down, all 3 clusters of symptoms and it has exaggerated of all my POIS symptoms for past 8/9 days. Has really impacted my home and work life badly.

Ironically, as part of my strategy, I had been taking a NON flush Niacin with no problem. So the problem for me isn't B3 Niacin. It is something in the interaction of the flush with my own immune system.

I am reluctantly sharing this (I know there's a lot of Niacin flush fans). However, just re-iteratng we are all different. I am certainly NOT trying to put anyone off Niacin Flush, but trial it gently.

If anyone btw has any of their thoughts on why my immune system has been shocked and reacted badly with Niacin Flush or how to revers this reaction, please suggest something. My face is still red from the flush 10 days later (I have dermatitis anyway so that's a factor). In the meantime, I have to drag myself out to a work commitment this pm, and feel I will have to resort (which I do as rarely as possible) to pain killers :-(

This sucks !

[poisioq]

Hi Colm,

Unfortunately I had to quit niacin flush use because of some bad reactions.
I started using it at the beginning of 2013 then I stopped 7 - 8 months later.

Before the niacin use my pois was different. The symptoms was the following:

1- urinary tract inflamation, prostate swelling, anal itching , flu like symptoms (these were present only on day 1)
2- brain fog for a couple of days
3- rhinitis for 2/3 days
4- constant fatigue 
5- impairment of speech, dyslexia on day 1

Niacin was working very well against those symptoms, but few months later some persistent redness on  my skin appeared. It reversed with a topical cortisone based cream.
So I decided to stop using it , but since then my pois have changed.
Symptom 1 have disappeared. Symptoms 2, 4 and 5 are milder but constant, never go away.

Furthermore 2 new symptoms has appeared:
- stomach pain (ibs type) that usually begin on day 2,3 or 4 after O and it lasts from 2 days up to 20 days!!!!!
It is the most annoying pois symptom I've ever had. I'm lately testing Ranitidine against it and it looks to be working.
- atopic dermatitis on my legs which causes a mild but constant itching on them

Well my suggestion is to use some cortisone cream on your redness. I just needed a very small quantity 3 times a day. the cream I used is over the counter and   is composed of Chlorquinaldol 10mg/1g and Difluocortolone valerate 1mg/1g.
It is indicated for eczema , atopic dermatitis etc..

I hope it helps

 

[Colm]

I appreciate your reply very much Poisioq.

I do use Nizoral cream everyday and Dactacort once a week already, so I will up the Dactacort.

Unfortunately, it is the immune system malfunction that is mainly bothering me from reaction to Niacin flush. I think this will clear somewhat in the coming week or two. At least I am hoping it will.

I can survive on normal 30/50 % of my normal functioning but at current 10% it is really hard. At least I know I am not alone here.

Thanks !

[Nightingale]

I stopped using niacin because I had to resort to high levels of it to come close to a flush. When I did, I only got a milder one that I used to and I felt pretty awful the day or two afterwards.

My approach today is centered around anti-inflammatories. I did well with ibuprofen, but turmeric is far safer and actually better in a global sense. Olive Leaf Extract interacts with the immune system in a good way for me. I just came down with a cold yesterday, and taking generous amounts of OLE really helps shorten the duration and lessen symptoms. I'm also using Moducare, the product Quantum recommended which is made of plant sterols. I havn't been able to figure out exactly what it does, but I seem to be better taking it especially if I'm sick.

[Daveman]

I think one problem with using niacin is how finicky it is. For one, non-flush niacin is not a good idea, especially when taken regularly. It tends to accustom the system to niacin, and this usually means that the system needs more to do the job. On the other hand the non-flush and the flush together puts you over the top with a smaller dose.

Non-flush niacin can also give you a flush, if you take enough. The problem though, is that by the time you have taken enough non-flush to get a flush, you have a LOT of slow release niacin in your system, and it wwill last a long time and usually be stronger than desired.

Of course there are those who are allergic or extra sensitive to niacin. But eveyone has their own level. So once, for instace, I got a fairly strong flush with 50mg first thing in the morning, and other times not even 400 would give me a flush. If the liver is busy (it seems) the niacin has a hard time to kick in.

You have to "dial it in" for you individually. No niacin until just before (1 hr) the act. Always flush type. and start out consrvatively until you find your level. And remember, the level changes based on whether you've eaten or not and a number of other factors. Perhaps it may be useful to make a diary and note, excersize levels, food and beverage intake, etc.

I have my schedule dialed in, but even so, from time to time it escapes me. But after more than 2 yrs, I have not had any undesirable effects or weakening of the effect.

It's a shame that for some, there can be these undesirable effects, especially when you see that through it all POIS can be heloed by the treatment. But perhaps with careful management the undesirable can be reduced.... although not always.

I have regular blood tests, these can be helpful to assure that your system isn't changing.

[Colm]

I stopped using niacin because I had to resort to high levels of it to come close to a flush. When I did, I only got a milder one that I used to and I felt pretty awful the day or two afterwards.

Nightingale, Thanks for confirming I am not the only one who has had some reaction.

Turmeric is far safer and actually better in a global sense. I'm also using Moducare, the product Quantum recommended which is made of plant sterols.

I am trying both of those also, fingers crossed.

[Colm]

I think one problem with using niacin is how finicky it is. For one, non-flush niacin is not a good idea, especially when taken regularly. It tends to accustom the system to niacin, and this usually means that the system needs more to do the job. On the other hand the non-flush and the flush together puts you over the top with a smaller dose.

Non-flush niacin can also give you a flush, if you take enough. The problem though, is that by the time you have taken enough non-flush to get a flush, you have a LOT of slow release niacin in your system, and it wwill last a long time and usually be stronger than desired.

Of course there are those who are allergic or extra sensitive to niacin. But eveyone has their own level. So once, for instace, I got a fairly strong flush with 50mg first thing in the morning, and other times not even 400 would give me a flush. If the liver is busy (it seems) the niacin has a hard time to kick in.

You have to "dial it in" for you individually. No niacin until just before (1 hr) the act. Always flush type. and start out consrvatively until you find your level. And remember, the level changes based on whether you've eaten or not and a number of other factors. Perhaps it may be useful to make a diary and note, excersize levels, food and beverage intake, etc.

I have my schedule dialed in, but even so, from time to time it escapes me. But after more than 2 yrs, I have not had any undesirable effects or weakening of the effect.

It's a shame that for some, there can be these undesirable effects, especially when you see that through it all POIS can be heloed by the treatment. But perhaps with careful management the undesirable can be reduced.... although not always.

I have regular blood tests, these can be helpful to assure that your system isn't changing.

Cheers Daveman, I know you're really busy, so your knowledgeble inputs on the Niacin front are valid and appreciated. I think I have gradually started to flush out whatever negative reaction occurred - thankfully. Don't think I will go back to the well again though.