Decompose semen

[poiseidon]

Hey guys.
I was wondering. I'm not sure this is a topic already discussed before. But would't be better to determine which one is the substance contained in semen that triggers the immune response? Like breaking the semen in its single components and verify which one is the ONE. And base the immunotherapy on that?

[Daveman]

I think there are some researchers that are taking that approach.... with luck they may submit an application.

Most anyone who is doing work in line with POIS will have been advised of our grant.

[poiseidon]

I'm always wondering if it's the "standard" semen that triggers POIS or our very own, that for some reason is different. And see if changing our diet we can change its composition. I remember some years ago I had a GF who really enjoyed to (can I say it?) swallow. She told me that depending on what I ate the taste was different.
I'm really curious to see, if taking a (willing) non-POISer and prick testing him both with his semen and the semen of a POISer, there is any difference in the reactions. If he reacts only with the POISer one, it would mean that maybe the problem is in our own semen.

But I'm not sure.. Another idea could lay in the urinary tract.

1. There is some sort of gap in the urethra or similar, and therefore the semen enters in contact with the blood
2. Alarm bells ring in our immunity system.
3. Depending of the individual, reaction type I or IV take place. Many have both.
4. Type I results in the physical symptoms
5. Type IV involves the mental symptoms (something similar to Hashimoto's thyroiditis triggered by autoimmune reaction)
6. The inflammation lasts as long as some semen is in the system and its completely removed
7. Maybe Niacin's flush makes the urinary tract less sensitive to semen or unable to interact with it.

And more

Roughly there are 3 stages in the muscles involved in the ejaculation, very similar to urination. Push Pull and Rest. A very effective trick that I always use to prevent premature ejaculation is trying to keep the rest position, in other words not "helping" the erection and not pushing it either. Feeling that the penis is a part of the body that doesn't belong to me and thus not controllable. It's the body that moves instead.
Helping the erection is something very usual whenever it is not strong enough. But keeping pumping the muscles end up making the ejaculation closer and closer since they stimulate the prostate. If I avoid this kind of contractions I can easily to last till an hour (rather than seconds!) or so having the opposite problem, ejaculating becomes after a while difficult. Sometimes impossible. I remember once that I had to fake orgasm! because there was really nothing to do. I did have an erection but I simply could cum.
All these words to say that somewhere near those muscle something is wrong. And that if sex lasts long enough (say 30 min), POIS is really moderate.
This is why watching porn (which is something I had to quit long time ago because of POIS) makes POIS a lot worse than having sex. When watching porn is very common to stimulate the penis and  stopping the stimulation just before the O is by the door. This cycle is repeated for many times till O eventually happen. By that time it may have been even hours. And all these contractions somehow built POIS to hit hard.
Another thing I've noticed is that if the erection ends up soon after the O (very common in porn because is watch-related) POIS is much stronger since I feel some semen is still roaming free inside and hasn't be expelled completely.
In fact has happened (just a couple of time in my whole life) to have a lasting erection even after O and since I wore a condom I kept going till the second O. I remember so clear because those time I had NO POIS symptoms. This might be the reason levitra is working for some users.

[poiseidon]

Ah ah as I was writing this I think you created a new thread for researchers. I want to repost it there but the [reply] button isn't there.. Any clues?

[Vincent M]

Ah ah as I was writing this I think you created a new thread for researchers. I want to repost it there but the [reply] button isn't there.. Any clues?

I'm also unable to reply to the the "POIS Summary for researchers" thread here: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1056.msg9545#msg9545

[Daveman]

Ah ah as I was writing this I think you created a new thread for researchers. I want to repost it there but the [reply] button isn't there.. Any clues?

OK, it should be available now.

I think it had restricted access, because the idea was to have just facts about POIS and limit conversation, make it easier for researchers to read.

[marquis]

And more

Roughly there are 3 stages in the muscles involved in the ejaculation, very similar to urination. Push Pull and Rest. A very effective trick that I always use to prevent premature ejaculation is trying to keep the rest position, in other words not "helping" the erection and not pushing it either. Feeling that the penis is a part of the body that doesn't belong to me and thus not controllable. It's the body that moves instead.
Helping the erection is something very usual whenever it is not strong enough. But keeping pumping the muscles end up making the ejaculation closer and closer since they stimulate the prostate. If I avoid this kind of contractions I can easily to last till an hour (rather than seconds!) or so having the opposite problem, ejaculating becomes after a while difficult. Sometimes impossible. I remember once that I had to fake orgasm! because there was really nothing to do. I did have an erection but I simply could cum.
All these words to say that somewhere near those muscle something is wrong. And that if sex lasts long enough (say 30 min), POIS is really moderate.
This is why watching porn (which is something I had to quit long time ago because of POIS) makes POIS a lot worse than having sex. When watching porn is very common to stimulate the penis and  stopping the stimulation just before the O is by the door. This cycle is repeated for many times till O eventually happen. By that time it may have been even hours. And all these contractions somehow built POIS to hit hard.
Another thing I've noticed is that if the erection ends up soon after the O (very common in porn because is watch-related) POIS is much stronger since I feel some semen is still roaming free inside and hasn't be expelled completely.
In fact has happened (just a couple of time in my whole life) to have a lasting erection even after O and since I wore a condom I kept going till the second O. I remember so clear because those time I had NO POIS symptoms. This might be the reason levitra is working for some users.

Yo Poseidon, I have made the same observation.
Also struggling with premature ejaculation I have read a lot over at the PEGym-Forums and learned about involuntary and reverse Kegels and so on.
It took me a while of trial and error and reading many post till I discovered what you said in just one plain sentence: Relaxation of the muscles is the key.

Anyways I am still working on that since the few orgasms I have I would like to last a bit...
I did not follow any reverse Kegel and stretching routine consequently yet but I do edge sometimes with a fleshlight for quite some time concentrating on relaxation and without ejaculating at the end.
Sometimes the next day I feel quite energized and clear, no signs of POIS at all.

I think that it might not only have to do with the contractions of the pelvic floor but that also slow relaxed stimulation creates different kins of chemicals or whatever than rushing and kegeling to ejaculation.

[poisioq]

that is exactly what I've tried yesterday . I had a "relaxed" ejaculation and I was almost pois free without taking niacin.
I'm trying to listen to my body lately and I've noticed that I used to push too much those muscles during ejaculation.
maybe because of some kind of erectile disfunction, so to keep it stronger I overload those muscles

[demografx]

Hey guys.
I was wondering. I'm not sure this is a topic already discussed before. But would't be better to determine which one is the substance contained in semen that triggers the immune respons? Like breaking the semen in its single components and verify which one is the ONE. And base the immunotherapy on that?

The components and contributions of semen are as follows:

Gland              Approximate %          Description

testes                            2–5%                       Approximately 200- to 500-million spermatozoa (also called sperm or spermatozoans), produced in the testes, are released per ejaculation. If a man has undergone a vasectomy, he will have no sperm in the ejaculation.

seminal vesicle        65–75%                        amino acids, citrate, enzymes, flavins, fructose (2–5 mg per mL semen,[3] the main energy source of sperm cells, which rely entirely on sugars from the seminal plasma for energy), phosphorylcholine, prostaglandins (involved in suppressing an immune response by the female against the foreign semen), proteins, vitamin C

prostate                         25–30%                           acid phosphatase, citric acid, fibrinolysin, prostate specific antigen, proteolytic enzymes, zinc (the zinc level is about 135±40 micrograms/ml for healthy men.[4] Zinc serves to help to stabilize the DNA-containing chromatin in the sperm cells. A zinc deficiency may result in lowered fertility because of increased sperm fragility. Zinc deficiency can also adversely affect spermatogenesis.)

bulbourethral glands      < 1%                              galactose, mucus (serve to increase the mobility of sperm cells in the vagina and cervix by creating a less viscous channel for the sperm cells to swim through, and preventing their diffusion out of the semen. Contributes to the cohesive jelly-like texture of semen.), pre-ejaculate, sialic acid

From Wikipedia
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semen

[demografx]

I just realized that my sperm count is zero (from TRT ?) so I couldn't possibly be allergic to my sperm.

[Starsky]

When you take testosterone you have a T-spike in blood which sends a signal to stop sperm production.
Your relief with TRT could be:
-no sperm in semen so no allergic reaction now IMMUNE THEORY

-stoping sperm production kills POIS, its like a instant teleportation to day 7 REFRACTORY THEORY

For me the second option is more probably since guy who underwent vasectomy had still POIS

[poiseidon]

Hey demo!
A quick update about my pursuit of endocrinologists. I contacted 15 "respected" and private ($$$$) endos.
Here's the result: 9 didn't even reply, 5 thought I was crazy and the last one was really interested in the whole thing.

He was really chilling and easygoing, I was his last patient and we talked for a couple of hours. I told him everything, about Waldinger, about the forum, about your successfull therapy. And then he said "THE Internet is a great invention" (he was quite old) when I told about the research grant.
He was willing to help but he made his point saying that going through TRT at my age (26) could make more damage than relief in the long run. Especially with this research that may give more answers in a year or two.
He basically told me to be to wait. "You waited 26 years now wait for one more and don't make stupid things in the meanwhile".

So I think I might listen to him.

As for T, on wiki, I read that it could be immune suppressant for autoimmune diseases. Maybe this is another reason it works. (Given that I strongly believe that POIS is something like "allergy"/auto immune disease).
Here's the article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immunosuppression

When I was a kid I remember I took tons of antibiotics, and it has been proved that over used may trigger autoimmune diseases, The fact is that we really know a very little about the bacterial flora that is in our body.
Thousands of them are benign and may have an important role in our body's function. And I think my POIS worsened a few months ago after taking antibiotics.

[poiseidon]

I think that it might not only have to do with the contractions of the pelvic floor but that also slow relaxed stimulation creates different kins of chemicals or whatever than rushing and kegeling to ejaculation.

That's interesting. Did you read it somewhere?

[poiseidon]

that is exactly what I've tried yesterday . I had a "relaxed" ejaculation and I was almost pois free without taking niacin.
I'm trying to listen to my body lately and I've noticed that I used to push too much those muscles during ejaculation.
maybe because of some kind of erectile disfunction, so to keep it stronger I overload those muscles

Right, the only problem is that at the moment of ejaculation it's impossible to control those muscles.
I wonder if there is any drug that prevents the contraction spams to happen and see if I have POIS symptoms afterwards.

[demografx]

When you take testosterone you have a T-spike in blood which sends a signal to stop sperm production.
Your relief with TRT could be:
-no sperm in semen so no allergic reaction now IMMUNE THEORY

-stoping sperm production kills POIS, its like a instant teleportation to day 7 REFRACTORY THEORY

For me the second option is more probably since guy who underwent vasectomy had still POIS

Me too

[demografx]

This is the article that was NOT approved [it was rejected] by Waldinger, according to the letter from Egypt:
http://f1000research.com/articles/2-113/v1

My opinion: it was a hurtful, unnecessary, competitive slam by W!

[poiseidon]

Ok let me get this straight. For Dr. Yasen its scientifically unacceptable the immune theory. Moreover the desens therapy is just a placebo at best, if not dangerous.
For Dr. Yasen it's more likely an atopic hypothesis. He tries to tell Dr. Waldinger which pretetends not to listen refusing his papers and not replying his mails and stealing the atopy theory instead.
This is what i got about the whole thing. Is that what happened?

But I just don't understand.. Some users like vandemolen reported some improvement with desens. Are all of them a placebo effect ?

[demografx]

I wouldn't rule that out. We are all desperate.

Just my opinion, but I see more danger than benefit with desens.