Did I miss 'the' thread on NE's - is that why nobody replies?

[romies]

In another POIS cycle, had a planned release with prepack at about 9-10 pm which was fine but then a NE at 1 am. How lucky. Feels like it's going to be a heavy cycle for 2-3 days.

Most of the Quantum's pre-pack supplements have a serum (blood) half life of 6-8 hrs. Ibuprofen is the only exception, but Quantum rarely use Ibuprofen himself. So I would say that you should be still protected when you had the NE.

[romies]

Also, noticed you guys take straight magnesium. Most magnesium here contains some B6 to help absorb the magnesium - so how do you ensure your magnesium capsule is absorbed well? I bought a plain magnesium capsule with no B6, so I am curious about this...

The magnesium amino acid chelate are already good for absorption. In addition to the ones you talked about, there are many highly-absorb-able magnesium supplements without B6, such magnesium citrate, magnesium malate etc. Too much magnesium citrate causes diarrhea, a sign that your gut cannot take in any more magnesium. Magnesium malate does not have such effect in my experience.

Too much magnesium can make one sleepy, so you don't want to overdose yourself.

[Michael218]

Thanks guys. My earlier reply accidentally was deleted. Today was a bit of a struggle, even with the Quantum/romies superpack. It was relatively okay I guess, but my concentration and ability to conceptualise was a bit off... I am the main carer of a few members of my family so not having this functionality is very challenging, but anxiety levels have improved quite a lot which was always the worst component of my POIS.

[Michael218]

Romies, I did not take Quantum's prepack prior to o. I have a different pack, but even with mine I added Curcumin and 5htp this time to try smth new with it. After the NE I immediately took an additional quercetain/curcumin/5htp/nurofen combo. And have been alternating adding lots of omega 3's and magnesium. Unfortunately I still had a bit of anxiety today, but it was just bearable.

Anyway. Have come a long way. Gotta try harder to avoid NEs, but figure out a way to manage them. Worse than the symptoms themselves is the concern that you may have a NE at a crucial time in your life where you need your brain functioning....

[Quantum]

Thanks guys. My earlier reply accidentally was deleted. Today was a bit of a struggle, even with the Quantum/romies superpack. It was relatively okay I guess, but my concentration and ability to conceptualise was a bit off... I am the main carer of a few members of my family so not having this functionality is very challenging, but anxiety levels have improved quite a lot which was always the worst component of my POIS.

Hi Michael,

I think that's quite good, to have much less anxiety than what you usually have after a NE  (and, do not forget, after two releases within 24 hours).  You are making progress!   Some adjustement is still needed, but you are no more defenseless against your POIS symptoms 

Since you are younger, maybe you need to have planned release more often, I don't know.   Young members will have to figure this one out, because for me, at 52 y/o a planned release every 2 to 3 weeks is far enough, and it is not often needed because I am in a relationship.   I think, anyway, that a NE can come, a few time a year, at a surprise, even when we do anything correctly, so I feel it will always be useful to have some "post-pack" in case it happens, to at least reduce the symptoms.   Even if we do not know how to cure our POIS, it is great to never again have to go through a full, 100% POIS cycle, and have to deal with only like 30% or 40% of our usual POIS symptoms severity.

[Quantum]

I wanted to re-post here a link to an article on NE that has been shared by rudolphacunha this week:

https://www.seedoc.co/why-nightfall-happen-when-i-eat-much-and-when-i-recovered-it-happen-every-week-it-makes-me-dull-any-treatment/

Many tips are given, maybe some will find something useful in it to reduce nocturnal emissions to a minimum.


"Hi, problems of nightfall are quite common in this age group. it is not a medical disorder and happens most often due to excess accumulation of semen.
generally the condition is not seen after marriage.
1. eat less of oily and fast food
2. almonds 3-5 daily
3. eat less in dinner, drink more water
4. masturbation is not contraindicated, rather it is one of the safest form of personal sexual gratification but off course not in excess.

Night fall or wet dreams is a very common occurrence among men, especially among adolescents . This condition is characterized by involuntary ejaculation during sleep in the night or in the early hours of the morning. The problem of night fall can be very frustrating for young men because most of the times they don’t understand the reason for it and also because it is a very embarrassing thing to discuss with not only their parents but also with their peers.
The frequency of these nocturnal emissions varies from person to person, most men only experience this condition in their adolescent years but few may suffer from it all their lives. this condition is very common and nothing really to worry about except in very few cases where it is very frequent spread over a long period of time.
Exercising regularly and avoiding spicy foods can lessen the frequency of nightfall.
1. Should start jogging or brisk walking for at least 30 minutes every day.
2. Should avoid consumption of any liquid for at least 2 hours before going to sleep.
3. Should go for urination just before going to bed.
4. Should avoid watching porn or erotic chats etc.
5. Start listening to soothing music which gives peace of mind and gives soothing effects like the meditation gives.
6. Should start reading good books at the time to keep the brain relaxed for a sound sleep.
7. If night fall happens then one should not worry about this, because if people keep on thinking about nightfall or have the fear of night fall at the time of sleeping then you get more chances to have the night fall again.
8. Should avoid constipation because an upset digestive system also sometimes causes night fall.
9. If the person is having the habit of taking milk at night then they should take milk in the evening instead of at night.
10. Start doing masturbation once in a while may help control night fall.
Remember to talk to your doctor before you start or stop your medications and never self medicate. "


Obviously, for those with POIS like us, #10 tip should be a "planned release", that is, taking a pre-pack that you know helps control and lower your symptoms, 1 hours before release, so you won't get full blast POIS cycle.

[Michael218]

Yeah, totally agree Quantum. Can't compare to before when POIS was simply unbearable and unmanageable. Very very pleased so far with the results and am encouraged to find further solutions. For younger people, we generally need to do planned release more often to avoid NE. I would say porn is a bad idea in this case, because the more porn you watch, even for planned release to avoid NE's, the more your subconscious stores imagery from the movies. As is the case with starring at all the beauties in day to day life.

I am open to more ideas to minimising POIS after a NE... if anyone has any more ideas, let's discuss...

Wish there was a way to test these situations without the risk! Like you Quantum, pois on top of pois is a natural disaster for me.

Liked the article on avoiding NEs, found it useful - thank you!

[nanna1]

Hi Michael218,

  Have you tried the POIS Cascade Stack. The supplements are not timed around the orgasm, they are timed around your eating schedule and any effects should last throughout the night. The water soluble supplements are taken on an empty stomach and the fat solubles with a meal. Be sure to pay attention to the dosage because some of the supplements have overdose side effect.

  For me, this stack caused a complete remission of my POIS symptoms. No more sneezing, headache, runny nose, or fatigue. I don't notice the same irritability that I used to get the day after an orgasm. I also don't get sick after my workouts anymore. My recovery time (before the stack) from weight training used to be about 7 days with serious DOMS, and now it's 3 days with no DOMS (I only feel the soreness while stretching that muscle group). I do get drowsy immediately after orgasm, but so do non-POIS people.

Also I'm trying two new things to reduce my overall stress:
1. I have started wearing blue-blocking glasses to reduce stress from staring at a computer screen all day. Blue light from LCD screens (computer, smart phone, fluorescent bulbs) reduce melatonin production (from serotonin) and lead a host circadian rhythm problems.
2. I have joined a social group to interact with more people. This post describes how social interaction reduces stress: (link 1), and this post discusses a plausible mechanism for how stress might influence POIS: link 2.

I don't know if these these stress reduction techniques affect POIS, but reducing stress is just generally healthy. So I thought someone might be interested.

[Quantum]

Yeah, totally agree Quantum. Can't compare to before when POIS was simply unbearable and unmanageable. Very very pleased so far with the results and am encouraged to find further solutions. For younger people, we generally need to do planned release more often to avoid NE. I would say porn is a bad idea in this case, because the more porn you watch, even for planned release to avoid NE's, the more your subconscious stores imagery from the movies. As is the case with starring at all the beauties in day to day life.

I am open to more ideas to minimising POIS after a NE... if anyone has any more ideas, let's discuss...

Wish there was a way to test these situations without the risk! Like you Quantum, pois on top of pois is a natural disaster for me.

Liked the article on avoiding NEs, found it useful - thank you!

You bring an interest point, Michael.  If someone use a planned release, with pre-pack, at a time when there will be time to recover after in case there are some symptoms, it is better to do so without the aid of porn or without too much stimulation, so that it can help avoid "aftermath NE", a NE that comes not long after a previous ejaculation, like in the following night or 1 to 2 days after.   

I think it is not uncommon to feel that some sexual activity calls for some more, in the following days, and I think the more intense it is, the more intense memories we have from it, and the more we fill the urge to repeat the experience.  This urge may be come from drives outside of the conscious control, and so can manifest during our sleep.

[Quantum]

For me, this stack caused a complete remission of my POIS symptoms. No more sneezing, headache, runny nose, or fatigue. I don't notice the same irritability that I used to get the day after an orgasm. I also don't get sick after my workouts anymore. My recovery time (before the stack) from weight training used to be about 7 days with serious DOMS, and now it's 3 days with no DOMS (I only feel the soreness while stretching that muscle group). I do get drowsy immediately after orgasm, but so do non-POIS people.

Also I'm trying two new things to reduce my overall stress:
1. I have started wearing blue-blocking glasses to reduce stress from staring at a computer screen all day. Blue light from LCD screens (computer, smart phone, fluorescent bulbs) reduce melatonin production (from serotonin) and lead a host circadian rhythm problems.
2. I have joined a social group to interact with more people. This post describes how social interaction reduces stress: (link 1), and this post discusses a plausible mechanism for how stress might influence POIS: link 2.

I don't know if these these stress reduction techniques affect POIS, but reducing stress is just generally healthy. So I thought someone might be interested.

,
Hi Nanna,

it's great that you have results for both POIS and for symptoms after sports  ( it's not uncommon among POIS sufferers to also have longer than usual recovery time after sports and exercise).

And, spending quality time with people we appreciate is a powerful healing practice , I totally agree

[Michael218]

Thanks for the replies guys. Nanna, I read your earlier post about your cascade pack but was a little put off by taking 10+ pills a day although the fact that you have total success with it and release doesn't need to be timed and, NEs are taken care of under this plan, I should definitely take it on board... the fact that you listed your physical symptoms first, and didn't include anxiety on your list makes me wonder if we have the same kind of POIS. I do suffer some physical symptoms but honestly, I couldn't care less about feeling fatigued as long as my brain/mood feels nice and balanced as it does outside of POIS.

The challenge I face is that I take so many supplements prior to orgasm that I really have no idea what i'm doing (for now). But my POIS is really that unbearable that any risk of taking another pack that may not work is a difficult one to take...

[Michael218]

I really appreciate you taking the time to point out your prepack again in this thread though for me, Nanna. Thanks again.

[Michael218]

Quantum/Romies- what do you think about taking your prepacks in addition to my prepack just once to determine whether your prepack works for me also? I get about 70-80% reduction with mine but I wonder if taking your prepack additionally would produce even better results and thus enable me to determine whether I may be able to switch to your prepack alone in future. Is that a bad idea in your view? Can taking your prepack or a compressed version of it (eg. Quercetin-curcumin-5htp) interfere with or reduce the effectiveness of my (rather large) prepack? Any thoughts?

[Quantum]

Hi Michael,

Gratz for your already great 70-80% reduction in your POIS symptoms

As you know, I have tweaked mine till I obtained 80% to 100% relief.  What I did is adding elements one by one, and see if I got better results after a few releases ( my POIS tend to variate in intensity from one time to another, so I have to look at the average results).   

I remember your pre-pack is mostly composed of B complex vitamins, and some antioxidants like vit C and E.   There is no bad interactions reported with these and the 3 products you mention in your post ( quercetin-curcumin-5HTP).  On the opposite, there are, for example, synergic formulas containing quercetin and vitamin C.  I cannot tell you what to take or not take, that is against forum rules, but I can share that, for myself, what has worked is slowly adding elements to my pre-pack, in safe doses, till I get good enough results.   

The high number of individual components can get cumbersome to take at some point.  My pre-pack is like 11 pieces to take.   Well, it's worth it !  I do not mind taking all these, because it protects me from the bite of the POIS beast.  I have always have 2 little bottles prepared in advance, containing all the elements of my pre-pack, to ease the process.

If someone would get to the "maximum" number of pieces found acceptable to take at once, it would be then a work to interchanging those elements suspected to be less active for more efficient ones.   In my case, I had a hypothesis about what causes my POIS symptoms, so the choice of the elements in my pre-pack were quite clear for me.  But, as I have already shared, I do not know if all of my hypothesis are right ( IDO/TDO inhibition, pro-inflammatory cytokines blockage, and so on), but I do know that I get very good results with my pre-pack, and that is what is the most important.

This method of developing a great, custom, pre-pack, took me about six months, and I would say that after a couple of months, I already have most of it figured out ( and for sure I had at least 70-80% relief, like yourself at this point).  After, it was a question of fine tuning it, and a question of evaluating the results over time.

[romies]

Quantum/Romies- what do you think about taking your prepacks in addition to my prepack just once to determine whether your prepack works for me also? I get about 70-80% reduction with mine but I wonder if taking your prepack additionally would produce even better results and thus enable me to determine whether I may be able to switch to your prepack alone in future. Is that a bad idea in your view? Can taking your prepack or a compressed version of it (eg. Quercetin-curcumin-5htp) interfere with or reduce the effectiveness of my (rather large) prepack? Any thoughts?

Hi Michael,

Here is my understanding of your regimen before. correct me if I am wrong.
Prepack: Vitamin's B1 (250mg), B6(200mg), B12 (1000mcg), B3 (500 mg, niacinamide), Vitamin C (1000 mg), Vitamin E (500IU), Fenugreek (1000 mg), Alfalfa (2 capsules).
Post pack:Zinc (40mg) and Mg(400mg)

I did have these POIS symptoms similar to yours before my current prepack regimen: brain fog, anxiety, depression, low energy, no motivation. I also had other allergy-like symptoms and upper-respiratory symptoms.

My analysis:
1. If Nurofen does not seem to work, stop taking it. Nurofen alone can activate mast cell for some people and cause more cognitive problems.
2. I might need to take a 2nd/3rd dose of 5htp (12 hrs apart) for a really bad POIS (rarely happens). 5htp is the main ingredient for me to alleviate anxiety (I become content and not caring much about all the worries).
3. I don't know much about Fenugreek or Alfalfa. But the other ingredients do not conflict with Quercetin-curcumin-5htp, because I take daily supplements of B6(morning), B12(morning), Vitamin C(before sleep) too.
Fenugreek and Alfalfa are not MAOI, so the risk of serotonin syndrome is low. However, if Alfalfa is mostly a tryptophan source for you, then you don't need it when you take 5-htp.

the last 2 times I had POIS because of an NE or missing taking the prepack, taking B3 afterwards made it really bad. Increased anxiety and symptoms lasted an extra 1-2 days! So no more B3 afterwards for me. I took it once after a NE and it made it worse, and also took it with the other B's (1,6,12) and it also made it much worse. So, no B's for me during POIS.

B3 (niacin or niacinamide) consumes a lot of methyl group during metabolism. I personally cannot tolerate them in large dose. Taking 500mg niacinimide alone will give me 6-10 hrs brainfog, even longer after exercise or an O.
Niacinamide effects on me: (my best guestimate)
1. reduced methyl group availability --> BH4 deficiency --> Dopamine, Serotonin deficiency
2. reduced methyl group availability --> unable to metabolize NorEpinephrine --> anxiety.
See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21918528

BTW, Niacin flushing never worked for me.

Potential solutions:
1. I take a daily low dose (400mcg each) Methylfolate, and methyl-B12 for this methylation issue. I suspect you may also need extra methyl group.
2. Take some SAMe as part of your post-NE pack. If it makes your anxiety worse, then you are likely to have over-methylation. But I suspect you have undermethylation. and SAMe will alleviate your symptoms. See recent posts from nanna1 about SAMe

You can find some references about the effect of niacinamide here:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/nicotinamide-nad-p-h-and-methyl-group-homeostasis.18026/

and earlier (2012-2013) posts by Kurtosis are very informative on this topic.
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=5614

[Michael218]

Thanks a lot guys. Appreciate the help.

Romies, you mentioned SAMe may help alleviate symptoms. In another post you mentioned Creatine was better than SAMe as its cheaper so I went out and bought a tub of Creatine last night. So taking Creatine is essentially performing the same function or did you specify SAMe for a reason in this case? I just took some creatine so we'll see how that goes. Also bought some Lecithin to see if that provides any further benefit.

Will report back on the Creatine at a later date.

Thanks again.

[romies]

Thanks a lot guys. Appreciate the help.

Romies, you mentioned SAMe may help alleviate symptoms. In another post you mentioned Creatine was better than SAMe as its cheaper so I went out and bought a tub of Creatine last night. So taking Creatine is essentially performing the same function or did you specify SAMe for a reason in this case? I just took some creatine so we'll see how that goes. Also bought some Lecithin to see if that provides any further benefit.

Will report back on the Creatine at a later date.

Thanks again.

1.SAMe increase methylation a lot. Some people may not be able to tolerate it. For creatine, methylation is a 2nd-order effect, much milder and easier to tolerate.
2.Many people can only tolerate a certain amount of sulfur intake a day. Methionine in SAMe is a major sulfur-containing amoni-acid. With all other sulfur sources you may already have in your diet. SAMe may cause trouble.

I tolerate Creatine and SAMe both pretty well. But I go with Creatine for much lower price and less side effects (at least for me).