Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (P.O.I.S.)

General Category => POIS Research => Topic started by: Huser on July 11, 2022, 06:51:18 AM

Title: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: Huser on July 11, 2022, 06:51:18 AM
Hello,

my opinion is that POIS is one of central system sensitivity syndromes, like fibromialgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, regional pain syndrome and others...

Among Pois I have also simmilar problems as people with cfs and fibromialgia, but no desease totaly fit the description of my problems.

When I start reading I trigger my pelvic pain, like after orgasem. But when I read, I can also trigger problems in my arms and legs. I loose strenght in my arms. After orgasem that doesn't happen.

I have also orthostatic intolerance when sitting and restless legs, like people with cfs.

I AM NEVER TIRED! That is oposite to cfs...

My EEG is abnormal and shows sensibile brains.

So when I put everything together, I can see I have one of central system sensibility sindrome, that is not known and understood like all the others syndromes as cfs and fibromialgia.

Maybe CFS is problem of pituatary - hipothalamus hormonal axe and POIS is problem of pituatary - hipothalamus - gonadal hormonal axe. Or maybe just a somatic nervous system problem...

I think we will have lot of time to wait until someone will discover a medication for this syndromes...
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: Lihua on July 11, 2022, 08:01:49 AM
pelvic pain implies that maybe your urinary system has some problem, so it is a good choice to check it first. :)
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: Muon on July 11, 2022, 08:33:57 AM
A physical therapist thought I had central sensitization syndrome. I never paid much attention to it until last year. There are similarities in my case regarding trigger thresholds, overlap conditions, hypersensitivity to many things.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2750819/
"After administration of GABA or glycine receptor antagonists, for example, A? inputs are recruited to neurons in the superficial dorsal horn,17 and pain-like behavior can be elicited by movement of just a few hairs." 

Exercise: Exercise caused sneezing and runny nose in my left nostril. I also had exercise induced IBS with diarrhea, unusually long DOMS/recovery and chronic fatigue (5-8 days). I still can get fasciculation shortly after resistance exercise.

Sensory/scratching: Additionally, scratching my chin/beard on the left side of my face reproduces all the POIS symptoms that I would normally get from orgasm. I sometimes have a compulsion to scratch my beard when I am stressed or trying to concentrate on something or am sleep deprived. I've noticed that scratching and grooming hair on my face (head, eyebrow, beard) produces some affect that keeps me alert and helps me think when I am trying to figure something out (almost like caffeine). However, it is only when I repeatedly scratch my chin on the left side that I get really sick.

How about doing a Quantitative sensory testing (QST) study for POIS?
I could make a separate Central sensitization Syndrome treatment section here (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3551.msg37339#msg37339) if you can find papers related to treatment: scholar.google.com
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: Huser on July 11, 2022, 09:31:42 AM
Lihua I had urinary system checked many times for 10 years, until I stoped seeing uroligist and went to neurologist where I proven, something is happening in my brain. Urologist never found anything.

Muon I will check for central sensitization syndrome treatment, but I am very slow, because I can't read. I am already feeling very bad today, because I wrote my thread.... 
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: Muon on July 11, 2022, 05:22:27 PM
https://www.dorsalhealth.com/blog/central-sensitization-causes-treatment#how-is-central-sensitization-diagnosed

"Quantitative sensory testing (QST) is another diagnostic approach for central sensitization."

My QST was abnormal. Here are my diagnoses after the QST:
  • Paresthesia of the skin
  • Segmental and somatic dysfunction of lumbar region
  • Segmental and somatic dysfunction of sacral region.
(https://i.imgur.com/pD63ZmS.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/pXzgg2W.png)

Basically, I have loss of sensation on my penis glans and on the left side of my penis shaft. My brain was unable to receive hot and cold temperatures from the tip of my penis, on both sides of my penis glans, and on the left side of my penis shaft. The sensation issue on my penis glans and the left side of my penis shaft does not seem to go away, even with abstinence.
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: Muon on July 13, 2022, 05:24:41 PM
Quoting from the book 'tuning the brain' written by Dr. J. Goldstein.

"Cannabinoids suppress central sensitization, a mechanism for chronic inflammatory pain. The endogenous cannabinoid anandamide is metabolized by fatty acid amidohydrolase. The action of the enzyme is blocked by nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs). If NSAIDs are effective in a neurosomatic patient, they may act by this mechanism."

"If excitatory inputs to the RTN are reduced (corticothalamic and collaterals from the ascending reticular activating system [ARAS]), the result will be large increases in receptive fields of thalamic neurons, a state that would worsen neurosomatic symptoms and increase central sensitization."

"IP3 increases intracellular Ca2+, and DAG activates PKC, which phosphorylates the NMDA receptor and removes the Mg2+ block. If this process can occur without first activating the AMPA receptor, the concomitant increase in SP and NR2B could produce depolarization and NMDA receptor-mediated events, including central sensitization."

"Other components of bee venom are serotonin (which is hyperalgesic), histamine, acetylcholine, and several kinins. There are also polypeptide toxins, such as melittin which damages cell membranes, mast cell degranulating protein, and apamin (a neurotoxin).
Tertiapin blocks muscarinic K+ channels. Enzymes include hyaluronidase, which helps the venom spread, and phospholipase A2, which is the major allergen. Many of these substances are arousal inducing, and most cause central sensitization."

"Diffusion of potentially algogenic transmitters may cause hyperalgesia and central sensitization in animals lacking (or perhaps with weakened)DNIC."

"Not only is the antihyperalgesic effect of GBP blocked by D-serine (and, therefore, cycloserine), but persistent activation of the NK1 receptor by SP removes the Mg2+ block of the NMDA-receptor channel (Urban L et al., 1994). This process contributes to postsynaptic central sensitization, as does a presynaptic hyperglutamatergic state."

"In addition to blocking Na+ channels, lidocaine inhibits the binding of SP to NK-1 receptors, altering central sensitization (TeradaHet al., 1999)."

"The patients may be more sensitive to potentially painful stimuli such as windup, increased pain sensation with each repetitive stimulus to a certain area (Staud R et al., 2001). Windup may be a manifestation of central sensitization of one or more wide dynamic range neurons as a result of long-term potentiation via NMDAreceptors (Gjerstad J et al., 2001). Neurosomatic patients often relapse after cognitive tasks."
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: Muon on July 13, 2022, 05:26:50 PM
Mast cells and central sensitization:
https://scholar.google.nl/scholar?hl=nl&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=mast+cell+central+sensitization&btnG=&oq=mast+cell+central+sensiti
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: Muon on July 13, 2022, 05:58:50 PM
Check this out: The neurobiology of central sensitization (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jabr.12137) (Steven Harte, 2018)

"A recent term, Chronic Overlapping Pain Conditions (COPCs), has been coined by the NIH to indicate that FM, IBS, chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), headache, interstitial cystitis/bladder pain syndrome, TMD, endometriosis, low back pain, and dry-eye disease may all represent conditions with overlapping clinical and pathophysiological features (i.e., those related to central sensitization), where central factors may be playing a prominent or exclusive role in their pathogenesis"

Chapter 2.7: "Although the prevailing view is that FM and related COPCs are not autoimmune disorders, and that classic anti-inflammatory agents are not of benefit in these conditions, there are some data suggesting that the immune system may be playing a role in their pathogenesis. Perhaps the most consistent finding noted to date is a mild elevation in IL-8, which is a cytokine associated with sympathetic function"

Check my lab data in my case thread. I know that IL-8 is being considered as a contender for a marker in FM but I didn't know it was associated with sympathetic function which I discussed here many times on the forum and in my case thread.

POIS patients with COPCs may have elevated IL-8 combined with sympathetic dysfunction. If this is the case we could define another subgroup of POIS (one other pattern/subgroup may be Lihua's case; thus low vit D+raised WBC in semen+response to certain Steroids and NSAIDS).
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: Lihua on July 14, 2022, 06:14:36 AM
Have you tested your prostate fluid and semen?Number of white blood cells, red blood cells, etc
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: Muon on July 14, 2022, 06:29:54 AM
POISers may be prone to changes of neural networks by repetitive stimuli. Memorization of stimuli may result in prolonged firing and/or amplification/numbing of signals the next time it will encounter the stimuli. These changes in neural network could interact with the immune system inducing additional inflammation (prolonged firing + immune interaction = prolonged inflammation?)

Check this, I think Dr J. Goldstein calls this a windup.
Another scenario:
Glans penis (limp state and is not sexual related) becomes sensitive while walking or riding a bike that I have to stop walking for a few mins or stop riding the bicycle (I stop because the sensitivity increases with duration of movement up to the point that it hurts). The little friction it makes with my clothing seems to get amplified after repetitive motion. It gets better once I pause. (very mild tingling involved)

Edit: Scroll up and check Nanna1’s quote again. The last sentence ‘repeatedly’. It could be the same dynamic as I described above in the quote of myself. In that case a wide spread type of neuron might be involved plus potential information processing and threshold issues. He also mentioned stress, which could amplify/prime this dynamic.

Have you tested your prostate fluid and semen?Number of white blood cells, red blood cells, etc
No, did your chinese doc run the same WBC semen test in other chinese patients?
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: Lihua on July 14, 2022, 07:13:05 AM
POISers may be prone to changes of neural networks by repetitive stimuli. Memorization of stimuli may result in prolonged firing and/or amplification/numbing of signals the next time it will encounter the stimuli. These changes in neural network could interact with the immune system inducing additional inflammation (prolonged firing + immune interaction = prolonged inflammation?)

Check this, I think Dr J. Goldstein calls this a windup.
Another scenario:
Glans penis (limp state and is not sexual related) becomes sensitive while walking or riding a bike that I have to stop walking for a few mins or stop riding the bicycle (I stop because the sensitivity increases with duration of movement up to the point that it hurts). The little friction it makes with my clothing seems to get amplified after repetitive motion. It gets better once I pause. (very mild tingling involved)

Have you tested your prostate fluid and semen?Number of white blood cells, red blood cells, etc
No, did your chinese doc run the same WBC semen test in other chinese patients?
A Chinese patient claimed that minocycline cured his symptoms of urinary tract infection, but did not cure his headache (but his headache often occurs, not necessarily triggered by ejaculation,he says his headache is not with brainfog). Due to the closure of the city, he did not go to the hospital to measure the prostate fluid, but he planned to do it in the future. He ate minocycline for ten days, and then ejaculated twice. After the first ejaculation, he had no symptoms and was completely normal. After the second ejaculation, he had a headache. Then is another Chinese patient, after another Chinese patient described his symptoms of frequent urination and endless urination to the doctor, the doctor gave him the same prescription as me without testing, because the doctor thought it was unnecessary.
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: Muon on July 14, 2022, 07:31:17 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minocycline#Infections
S. Aureus can induce IL-8. The other medical uses of this med are interesting as well. We are going off-topic now.
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: Lihua on July 14, 2022, 11:29:25 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minocycline#Infections
S. Aureus can induce IL-8. The other medical uses of this med are interesting as well. We are going off-topic now.
He ate minocycline for ten days and ejaculated for the first time after 14 days (This means that 14 days have passed since the last minocycline administration), so his normal state should be due to the bactericidal effect of minocycline rather than other effects
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: Huser on July 16, 2022, 09:15:59 AM
I really bealive that semen has nothing to do with POIS. I had normal POIS, never worying to much, than I tried Mirapexin 3 years ago and tha same symptomes apeard as with orgasem. They become much worse and painfull, they lasted few months and made my POIS worse. I was also unable to read, because reading triggerd very bad symptomes. I stoped having sex for two years, and my Pois is now so better I have only slight pain after orgasem lasting one day. But I never stoped reading, because I have to read in my job and everywhere else. So this trigger "the reading" is still very painfull and making me big truble. I can loose strenght in arms and legs if I read to much, I can get pain so strong in my groin that I can't do anything. Orgasem is not a big problem for me anymore, its reading! And I can't se the conection between semen and reading... I had checked my semen and everything is OK.

I think, that the real problems are sensitive brains. But why are brains sensitive? Everything started when I injured my right testicle when I was 16. Some people get regional pain syndrome when injured...
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: demografx on July 16, 2022, 02:13:38 PM

I really believe that semen has nothing to do with POIS.


Interesting! I believe just the opposite :)
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: Huser on July 16, 2022, 02:46:40 PM
And I also bealive that POIS is not just one desiese. I think different desieses trigger simptomes after orgasem. Orgasem can trigger epileptic seizure, rarely but it does. Brushing your teath can trigger chronic fatigue sindrome. Why can't orgasem trigger chronic fatigue sindrome? Lights can trigger epileptic seizure and chronic fatigue sindrome. Medications can trigger alergies, chronic fatigue sindrome, fibromialgia, peripher neuropathy,...so maybe semen can trigger also all this things. But I am almost shure that semen doesn't trigger my problems. If it does, why am I having problems after 2 year of not having an orgasm??? And why is reading making my simptomes so bad I can't live normal, and orgasem has become practicaly non problematic...
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: hurray on July 17, 2022, 05:37:00 PM
And I also bealive that POIS is not just one desiese. I think different desieses trigger simptomes after orgasem. Orgasem can trigger epileptic seizure, rarely but it does. Brushing your teath can trigger chronic fatigue sindrome. Why can't orgasem trigger chronic fatigue sindrome? Lights can trigger epileptic seizure and chronic fatigue sindrome. Medications can trigger alergies, chronic fatigue sindrome, fibromialgia, peripher neuropathy,...so maybe semen can trigger also all this things. But I am almost shure that semen doesn't trigger my problems. If it does, why am I having problems after 2 year of not having an orgasm??? And why is reading making my simptomes so bad I can't live normal, and orgasem has become practicaly non problematic...

You make a very good point.

I agree that POIS isn't just one disease. In my opinion, POIS is a very wide range of symptoms. The key thing that links everybody here is that the POIS symptoms are triggered by sexual activity/orgasm, and that they disappear after a period of time.

I can get POIS symptoms from "morning wood" that can ruin a whole day for me (mostly brain fog). I can trigger a similar effect by washing my head with hot water for an extended period of time, but I would not classify that as POIS.

The problem is that if we expand the scope of "POIS symptoms" beyond sexual activity/orgasm on this forum, we're just a random group of people on the internet complaining about our various ailments and illnesses.

This is absolutely not intended to be a criticism of you, you've raised a really important issue. In your case, taking Mirapexin and abstaining from sex for 2 years seem to have caused an entirely different trigger for what you identify as POIS symptoms from your previous POIS problems.
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: hurray on July 17, 2022, 06:22:17 PM
Some people who are susceptible to POIS may very well have "sensitive brains" as you said in your previous post, and something other than semen/orgasm may well trigger POIS-like symptoms for them. In my case, I probably have some kind of norepinephrine dysfunction (since milnacipran works for me).

Many people on this forum have reported having POIS symptoms from non-sexual causes, myself included. To keep things clear, we should probably refer to these symptoms as "POIS-like" or similar. After all, POIS stands for "Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postorgasmic_illness_syndrome

Do other forum members agree? Or should we be trying to expand the meaning of POIS to include other POIS-like symptoms?
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: demografx on July 17, 2022, 07:31:55 PM


…POIS stands for "Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome".


Exactly what I wanted to post.
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: Huser on July 19, 2022, 12:48:57 AM
Then I have a question for you. If someone gets epileptic seizure after watching into the flashing lights. He has epilepsy. If someone gets epileptic seizure after orgasem, he has POIS or epillepsy?
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: hurray on July 19, 2022, 05:23:49 PM
Then I have a question for you. If someone gets epileptic seizure after watching into the flashing lights. He has epilepsy. If someone gets epileptic seizure after orgasem, he has POIS or epillepsy?

It's a bit of a hypothetical question, I don't recall any instances of people on this forum reporting epileptic fits triggered by orgasm. Epileptic fits aren't listed as one of the symptoms of POIS by NORD or Wikipedia.

You'd have to look at factors such as whether they had epileptic seizures at other times, if they had a seizure after most of their Os, and if they suffered from other POIS symptoms. Generally speaking, POIS symptoms generally last for 1+ days, which wouldn't include an epileptic seizure.
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: Hopeoneday on July 20, 2022, 05:02:31 AM
There are seweral poisers that are reported seizures in
pois days, including me.
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: Huser on July 23, 2022, 06:59:12 AM
Thank you for your answer Hopeoneday. May I ask how does you epileptic seizure look like?

I think there is so many symptoms after orgasem, that all of us should just look which part of the brain is more sensitive. I have strong centrotemporal brain activity, and function of this part of the brain is exactly what I feel when having truble...

If someone has benefit of testosterone patches, it can be this hormone deficienty that is causing sensitive braine. Other could have different reason or lack of different hormones. Organ producing this trubble I think is pituary gland, wich is strongly conected with testicles.

Only my opinion :)
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: demografx on July 23, 2022, 11:56:28 PM


There are seweral poisers that are reported seizures in pois days, including me.


sorry to hear
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: Hopeoneday on March 09, 2023, 04:59:17 PM
Thank you for your answer Hopeoneday. May I ask how does you epileptic seizure look like?
My seizures did felt like magnetic field bumping around my head,
that sound like a birds wings slap you on one side
of had then another simultaneouly(like-frrrrppp,frrppp)
and you are like some kind of parlised for 10-15 sec.
I did had them in sleep before in pois( eg, sleep paralyses).
And in the "live", lasted about 10-15 sec.
 
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: Muon on October 18, 2023, 05:32:26 AM
Men versus women on sexual brain function: Prominent differences during tactile genital stimulation, but not during orgasm (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/hbm.20733)

"The only prominent gender difference during orgasm was male-biased activation of the periaqueductal gray matter."

Periaqueductal Gray (https://sci-hub.se/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780123742360100100)

 The neurobiology of central sensitization (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jabr.12137)

We have similarly shown that decreased connectivity to antinociceptive brain regions, such as the periaqueductal gray (PAG - a critical locus of descending analgesic pathways), predicts responsiveness to milnacipran, a serotonin norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3312.0

https://sci-hub.se/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1356689X09001921

"To recognize CS, question the patient for hypersensitivity to touch, bright light, sound, smell, hot or cold sensations, mechanical loading of musculoskeletal tissues, and all kinds of physical, mental and emotional stressors."

"The outcome of the processes involved in central sensitization is an increased responsiveness to a variety of peripheral stimuli including mechanical pressure, chemical substances, light, sound, cold, heat, and electrical stimuli. The increased sensitivity to variable stimuli results in a large decreased load tolerance of the senses and the neuromusculoskeletal system".

(https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Gautam-Das-5/publication/315934301/figure/fig3/AS:667647435870211@1536190961355/Mechanism-of-peripheral-versus-central-sensitization-Notes-A-Peripheral-sensitization.png)

Also, there are a lot of supplements I can't take due to chronic gastritis.  I keep seeing long lists of things to try that I'll never be able to choke down which is disheartening.  NSAIDS and anything even remotely acidic, spicy or minty are off the table.  (Vitamin C, Resveratrol, any citrus fruit or flavoring, cayenne/cinnamon/ginger/peppermint, etc).

ASIC and TRPV?

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11916-002-0046-1

Important nociceptor systems in the skin and muscles seem to undergo profound changes in patients with fibromyalgia through unknown mechanisms. They include sensitization of vanilloid receptor, acid-sensing ion channel receptors, and purino-receptors.

I do know that mast cells and (small) nerve fibers are able to communicate back and forth. For the other cells depicted I do not know. If the brain is not processing signals correctly, they might put out signals to locations unrelated to the input stimuli and activate immune cells like mast cells. I wonder if this is a mechanism in triggering clusters of symptoms, if signals just branching randomly out via sensory pathways. I’m not talking about pain specifically. Like the green arrow in the picture below doing something elsewhere in the body while the input stimuli is orgasm or the urinary tract (sensitivity to chemical substances=semen?).
(http://www.bielcorp.com/biel/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Chronic-Pain-Central-Sensitization-Illustration-12-14-15.jpg)

The scenario below might be related to CS. Not to mention al the other sensitivities. During the scenario below I feel a weird presence in the middle of my head (which was already present prior to applying friction), which I didn’t mention. That spot is also sensitive to sexual function/triggers.
Washing the glans penis during shower led to activation in lower back at the spinal area (which is already sensitive), no pain, just activation of something and it isn't muscle, no feeling of contraction. Activation stops when friction stops. Applying friction again flares up activity in my lower spine again.
When I rub my glans/forehead exactly on the top area for example against the palm I feel this interesting kind of tingly kind of pulling feeling in the lower back area too either in nerves or something like that if I did that for many minutes it would feel way too intense and I would have to stop and once I do not rub anymore it just stops I already recall noticing that when I was a teenager.

Inflammation itself might sensitize the sensory neural networks. Is premature ejaculation linked to CS/PS in POISers?

===============================================

Sex ratio in CS: Female>male
Sex Ratio POIS: Male>>>Female

POIS being a type of CS doesn't make sense at first sight except when you factor in the difference in sexual function. If the phenomena is related to PAG and there is activation in that area for men and not for women upon orgasm then it makes sense.
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: Huser on November 21, 2023, 03:53:16 AM
As i mentioned in my d3 post... Glutamate is neurotransmitter making pain and too much glutamate makes nerves CSss, sensityve nervous system. You produce too much glutamate because your dopamine receptor d3 overactivates with orgasem and potentate your glutamate levels in lymbic system.

I have all  necesary evidence for this, but I think nobody is interested...
Title: Re: Pois is one of CSSs?
Post by: Muon on November 21, 2023, 06:36:33 AM
As i mentioned in my d3 post... Glutamate is neurotransmitter making pain and too much glutamate makes nerves CSss, sensityve nervous system. You produce too much glutamate because your dopamine receptor d3 overactivates with orgasem and potentate your glutamate levels in lymbic system.

I have all  necesary evidence for this, but I think nobody is interested...

I have placed your theory under the D3 receptors:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3744.0