Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (P.O.I.S.)
General Category => Articles, References and Links => Topic started by: Muon on February 16, 2021, 04:56:38 PM
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I'm not going much in-depth here, just kickstarting a discussion. People can post some useful links and discuss to get a better understanding about these cell interactions.
I am wondering, if we can create a knowledgebase on Th1 vs Th2 vs Th17 vs TReg, if anyone has knowledge on this topic, would be so appreciated.
The reason I ask is, there is A LOT of confusion I feel, even in the most expert practitioners as to which are the better pathways.
Prior to Covid, experts used to say: Th2 is anti-inflammatory (IL-10) so better, Th1 is inflammatory. Though now with Covid, we hear the opposite.
@ journey
Boost Th1 response just prior to orgasm. Find stuff that can boost Th1 cytokines, these will block Th2 cytokine release.
Note this discussion is not about their numbers but about their activity. Th1 and Th2 cytokines keep eachother in balance. Th1 cytokines inhibit release of Th2 cytokines which leads to Th1 polarization and vice versa.
Inflammatory cytokines: Increase activity of enzymes (like COX-2) which induce inflammatory symptoms (redness, pain, swelling).
Anti-inflammatory cytokines: Decrease activity of enzymes which induce inflammatory symptoms.
Th1 dominance (polarization):
Pro: resistance against intracellular infections
Con: makes you prone to development of autoimmune diseases.
Th2 dominance (polarization)
Pro: better resistance against extracellular pathogens (bacteria)
Con: susceptible to intracellular infections (viral). It makes you prone to allergic diseases.
Main cytokines that keep Th1/Th2 cytokine release in balance are IFN-g (Th1) and IL-4 (Th2).
(https://i1.wp.com/drdechickerand.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Inapprpriate-immune-activation-in-disease.png?resize=600%2C900&ssl=1)
(https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Kanami-Orihara/publication/234042834/figure/fig2/AS:202532807811095@1425298992481/The-balancing-square-model-The-4-T-cell-types-Th1-Th2-Th17-and-Treg-antagonize-each.png)
IL-10 is the main cytokine of Tregs (with TGF-b). These are anti-inflammatory. The above picture represents a healthy person. If a cell type becomes more active then the plate will get out of balance and gets an angle (not horizontal anymore).
You can read it up in an entry level book about immunology, pick the most basic/elementary book that is available.
So when you have a bacterial infection going on you are likely to produce more Th2 cytokines to fight that pathogen. You will get Th2 polarized which makes you susceptible to allergic diseases. A viral infection will probably lead to Th1 activation and thus to a Th1 dominance of the immune system to fight the virus.
Example 1: Th1 polarized (https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/discriminatory-cytokine-profiles-predict-muscle-function-fatigue-and-cognitive-function-in-patients-with-myalgic-encephalomyelitis-cfs.81197/#post-2294547):
(https://forums.phoenixrising.me/attachments/screenshot_20200901-074947-png.39296/)
Th2 cytokines are barely detectable. So this person went for autoantibody tests and found Alpha-1 adrenergic receptor and M4 auto antibodies.
Example 2: Th2 polarized (https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/discriminatory-cytokine-profiles-predict-muscle-function-fatigue-and-cognitive-function-in-patients-with-myalgic-encephalomyelitis-cfs.81197/page-2#post-2321575):
(https://forums.phoenixrising.me/attachments/panel-png.41538/)
IL-4 (Th2) is suppressing IFN-g (Th1) and IL-2 (Th1). IFN-g and IL-2 levels are very low in the above case.
Example 3: Treg activation (https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/discriminatory-cytokine-profiles-predict-muscle-function-fatigue-and-cognitive-function-in-patients-with-myalgic-encephalomyelitis-cfs.81197/#post-2320743)
(https://forums.phoenixrising.me/attachments/1612321379386-png.41504/)
Tregs are able to suppress primarly Th17 cells (and possibly both Th1 and Th2 simultaneously). Tregs form a separate axis with Th17 similar as in the first picture about the Th1/Th2 axis. Tregs are implicated in tolerance to self-antigens (autoimmunity). Treg activation can lead to a suppression of IL-17A. IL-17A is critical in the defense against fungal pathogens (at certain locations inside the body) like Candida Albicans for example. So Treg activation may lead to an heightened susceptibility to fungal infection.
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Thanks, Muon, interesting.
I have been aware of this Th1-Th2 need for balance for some years now, and for me, it is the use of a specific blend of plants sterols and sterolins ( Moducare) that helps me a lot. I am more on the side of allergy/atopic, and Moducare really help me with any similar symptoms. It also help me with most POIS symptoms, as I have shared here many years ago. I have also mentioned that I did not included Moducare systematically in my pre-pack because of its higher price than the other components I use ( it was not cost-effective). However, when 40$ or so for 90 caps is not a problem ( many supplements are more expensive than that), I found it is a great supplement.
Moducare is also a regular member of my classic trio for cold and flu - very effective for me.
See a very detailed article here about Moducare vs Th1-Th2 balance : https://drhoffman.com/article/plant-sterols-and-sterolins-potential-immune-system-modulators-2/ (https://drhoffman.com/article/plant-sterols-and-sterolins-potential-immune-system-modulators-2/)
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I wonder which Th immunity system dominance do I have? I do not have any strong allergic reactions and symptoms as far as I am aware. However, I could not have noticed those connections. I do tend to feel better while fasting so maybe I have some food allergies but have never tested those.
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Theanine helps in balancing th1/th2 immune response. May be the reason for many members benefitting from it.
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Theanine helps in balancing th1/th2 immune response. May be the reason for many members benefitting from it.
Please post a source of this in the thread below, I can put it on page 1 (central point):
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3551.0
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I wonder which Th immunity system dominance do I have? I do not have any strong allergic reactions and symptoms as far as I am aware. However, I could not have noticed those connections. I do tend to feel better while fasting so maybe I have some food allergies but have never tested those.
Hi Journey, here is some info about this Th1 and Th2 balance:
"Too little TH1 activity and the immune system can not fight off virus or cancer, whilst too much TH2 activity and the immune system will stop recognising self tissue as self and damage its own body (an auto immune reaction). A balanced T helper cell activity is essential for optimum health." ( from https://dennisthechemist.blogspot.com/2011/11/moducare-and-me.html (https://dennisthechemist.blogspot.com/2011/11/moducare-and-me.html) , interesting and simple article to understand the basics of the Th1 - Th2 system)
Interestingly enough, Moducare will help either way. It helps raise Th1 when too low and helps lower Th2 when too high.
Recently, I have used Moducare in the context of a couple of unexpected NE. 2 Capsules right after, when I woke up, and again the following day, a few other doses. I was amazed at how well it works for me. Back in 2014, when I developed my pre-pack composition, I remember I put it aside because of its rather higher cost than other supplements, but I already knew it was very effective for me. Through the years, I kept it for treating cold and flu, and allergy symptoms. Now I probably have developed more kindness for myself than back then :) I remembered having tested it positively in POIS, and now I "allow" myself to use Moducare more often, including when I have some POIS residual symptoms. By not using it for POIS for about 6 years now, I had forgotten how much it is effective to get rid of any residual fatigue and any other residual POIS symptoms, including emotional ones ( irritability, mood swings, ...).
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Thanks a lot Muon, this is a very interesting topic. I have different views on it (but that maybe also that I am weird), I think it can help bridge gap also for nanna1's theory (which is highly intriguing) but later on it.