Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (P.O.I.S.)

POIS Cause/Treatment Discussions => Auto-Immune Causes and Treatments => Topic started by: biocentric on April 03, 2011, 11:56:44 AM

Title: Histamines for POIS? (Thread about Antihistamines too)
Post by: biocentric on April 03, 2011, 11:56:44 AM
Can Histamines help POIS? I dont know.

Heres some Histamine information
Histamine is a hormone/chemical transmitter and important protein that is involved in local immune responses, regulates stomach acid production and acts as a mediator in allergic reactions. This is the bad part we most often read about.

Histamine has many good functions too.
* It plays an important role as it is released as a neurotransmitter, necessary for our brain cells to "communicate" properly. Neurotransmitters are chemicals that are used to relay, amplify and modulate electrical signals between a neuron and other cell.

* Histamine is necessary to modulate sleep.
* During an orgasm, histamine is released, and has been connected to the sex flush among women. However, men with high histamine levels may suffer from premature ejaculations.
* Classified schizophrenia patients often have low blood levels of histamine. This can be a side effect of their antipsychotic medication. When this seemed to be the case, as histamine levels were increased, their health improved.

What causes allergies?
Allergies are caused by an immune response to a normally harmless substance, i.e. pollen or dust. When these come into contact with specific antigens in our blood (part of the white blood cells, so-called mast cells) this triggers a response and histamine is released.

The release of histamine causes several allergic symptoms, for it contributes to an inflammatory response and causes constrictions of smooth muscle.
* The allergic reaction causes blood fluids to enter the area, causing swelling. (Vasoactive).
* The constrictions of the smooth muscle are seen during an asthma attack. The muscles surrounding the airway constrict, causing shortness of breath.

An allergic reaction is a response that should not be happening because the substance that triggers is should not be dangerous to us. Sometimes we have the "luxury" to allow our immune system to run its course, but then we have to sniffle our way through the pollen seasons.
Sometimes a harmless looking allergic reaction may develop into a potentially life threatening situation. Take for example, a bee sting.
Anti-histamines are widely available nowadays, and help the body to overcome its immunological "mistakes".

Histamine and amines (histamine-like substances) can be found in foods, but also develop after cooking and storage. This happens especially with fermented foods, but sometimes during normal cooking procedures.
Amines are formed from specific amino acids that are present (to a certain agree) in all foods.

The most common food amines are:
* Histamine
* Phenylethylamine
* Serotin
* Tyramine
* Dopamine

Allergic reactions to these amines can be:
* Vaso-active affects the width of blood vessels
* Vaso-dilating widens the blood vessels
* Vaso-constricting narrows the blood vessels

Even foods that don't contain histamine can trigger an allergic reactions, but often additives are the culprits.
Food products that are known to cause allergies are:
Raw egg white, shellfish, strawberries, citrus fruit and pineapple, chocolate, tomatoes, alcohol, fish and pork.

People usually react pretty soon, during or after the meal, and untreated, the reaction may last 24-48 hours.
When people react e.g. because of tyramine causes, the symptoms are different.

Alcohol consumption can provide histamine, trigger its release, and prevent a histamine breakdown.
Histamine and alcohol share the alcohol dehydrogenase enzyme during the metabolism stage.
We've seen the important part histamine plays in the functioning of our body - we can't live without it.
But the moment an allergic reaction sets in, it seems to create havoc.
We do well to pay attention, and ask the advice of a specialist if we become allergic, either to food, dust or "unknown" things.

Every new allergic reaction may be stronger than the previous one, and potentially more dangerous.

Don't think it "will pass" or go away by itself. It won't.
If you are allergic, you'll need that anti-histamine "backup" at home, in order to stop the "attack" in its tracks. Don't self-medicate. Ask your doctor's advice. He may want to do some specific tests, in order to prescribe specific medication.
Knowing what to do when you experience an allergic reaction, treat it accordingly (with the right medication) will save you a (frightening) trip to the first aid department.


What are your thoughts/experiences?
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Daveman on April 03, 2011, 01:57:44 PM
First of all, WOW. Very in depth and in "well expressed layman's terms".  You normally would have to look in a number of referencial sources to find all this information and later  make the effort to "make it legible".

One thing interested me. Do you have any idea why, or is there some explanation for why "men with high histamine levels may suffer from premature ejaculations"? Or is it just one of those coincidences?

Intuitively, and particularly because it's happening to me now, I'd have the sensation that inflamation in the area of the reproductory system (in my case with the prostate) that upsets some balance in the nervous/neurological system and/or even hormonal production system in the area can cause either hyper or even hypo sensitivity to stimulation.

I know Dr. Waldinger works with women that are always on the edge of orgasm, perhaps it would be a similar mechanism. I don't remember at this moment the reason that Dr. Waldinger gives for that affliction.

Another interesting point, and one we've covered at NSF, altough perhaps more indirectly, is the potential histaminic effects of certain foods. Many of us have noted that certain foods aggravate our POIS sessions. If we are overly responsive to some "invader" surely these certain foods could exagerate the situation. Although none of the few mentioned below, seem to cause problems for me, there are additives I have identified and a few other food items.

Each person is different, and if they make close enough attention in an organised fashion, identifyong those that complicate their situation can be very helpful in reducing symptoms without taking heavier drugs and medicines.


Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: b_jim on April 04, 2011, 02:27:40 PM
I remember some guys took anti-histamine for Premature ejaculation with some succes.

I have premature ejaculation too and I don't know if histadellia (=lots of histamines) is real.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: demografx on April 10, 2011, 12:10:18 AM
Almost 1,000 posts on histamines at NSF-POIS Forum!

http://www.google.com/search?q=histamines+POIS+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fthenakedscientists.com&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GPEA_en

Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Willem on April 20, 2011, 01:11:38 PM
I've used an anti-histamine for about 6 weeks now and have run all of my typical placebo tests (varying frequency of O, exercising more, lifting weights etc.) and my muscles are doing much better.  It's difficult to get an objective measurement, but I have not run a 6 minute mile in years and was able to do so after a few weeks on anti-histamines without changing my work out pattern that much.  I just feel better.  Mind has cleared up a lot as well, but the nerve damage in my finger tips is about the same and still feel fatigue the day or two after O.   

Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Daveman on April 20, 2011, 01:47:49 PM
There have been a fair number of people within our ranks who have tried anti-histamines without too much success, but I think there are few who have tried to take into account all of the possible influences and plecebo effects etc. and few likely who have carried the test through 6 weeks.

So intereting results!

Fi anti-histamines were to have an effect, one could expect more influence over the Type I reactions (mentioned in the Dr. Waldinger papers) than over the Type IV reactions. This could also explain why it has been difficult to sense a real positive effect.

Some of us are more Type I prone, others more Type IV, and most with some degree of both.

Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Willem on April 20, 2011, 03:03:00 PM
Thanks Daveman, I kind of assumed as much after reading on the google wiki that anti-histamines were not effective for most POIS sufferers.  I also agree with your type I vs. type IV reaction description.  It's too bad that immunological stuff is so complex and variable. 
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Hoping on May 14, 2011, 05:25:24 PM
I've used an anti-histamine for about 6 weeks now and have run all of my typical placebo tests (varying frequency of O, exercising more, lifting weights etc.) and my muscles are doing much better.  It's difficult to get an objective measurement, but I have not run a 6 minute mile in years and was able to do so after a few weeks on anti-histamines without changing my work out pattern that much.  I just feel better.  Mind has cleared up a lot as well, but the nerve damage in my finger tips is about the same and still feel fatigue the day or two after O.   

i know it's been a few weeks since anyone posted in this thread, but what anti-histamine medication were you taking? prescription? over the counter?
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Willem on May 15, 2011, 11:21:22 PM
I've used an anti-histamine for about 6 weeks now and have run all of my typical placebo tests (varying frequency of O, exercising more, lifting weights etc.) and my muscles are doing much better.  It's difficult to get an objective measurement, but I have not run a 6 minute mile in years and was able to do so after a few weeks on anti-histamines without changing my work out pattern that much.  I just feel better.  Mind has cleared up a lot as well, but the nerve damage in my finger tips is about the same and still feel fatigue the day or two after O.   

i know it's been a few weeks since anyone posted in this thread, but what anti-histamine medication were you taking? prescription? over the counter?
I'm taking Claritin over the counter (in the U.S.) 24 hour (10mg Loratadine).  I've heard that other anti-histamines are stronger, but Loratadine is very benign, doesn't cross the blood brain barrier and doesn't cause drowsiness.  It continues to help the muscles, but is definitely not a cure. 
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: ihatepois on June 11, 2011, 10:48:56 AM
Interestingly I think excess histamine release from orgasm is one of the causes of POIS. Please see my post here http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=153.0
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Habibou on July 04, 2011, 12:31:20 PM
My immunologist gave me Cetirizine 10 mg, he said i should try and then see.  :) not really motivated :s
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Daveman on July 04, 2011, 04:26:12 PM
Well, you probably have to try at least, who knows. We can add it to our list of YES or NO.

Most probably becasue you are cognitively affected, it won'y help much, but give it a go!!

Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Starsky on July 11, 2011, 11:18:36 AM
Why didnt we try all antihistamines?

H1-receptor antagonists
Main article: H1 antagonist

In common use, the term antihistamine refers only to H1 antagonists, also known as H1 antihistamines. It has been discovered that these H1-antihistamines are actually inverse agonists at the histamine H1-receptor, rather than antagonists per se.[3] Clinically, H1 antagonists are used to treat allergic reactions. Sedation is a common side effect, and some H1 antagonists, such as diphenhydramine and doxylamine, are also used to treat insomnia. However, second generation antihistamines do not cross the blood brain barrier, and as such do not cause drowsiness.

Examples:

    Azelastine
    Cetirizine
    Chlorpheniramine
    Clemastine
    Desloratadine
    Dexchlorpheniramine
    Dimenhydrinate (most commonly used as an antiemetic)
    Dimetindene
    Diphenhydramine (Benadryl)
    Doxylamine (most commonly used as an OTC sedative)
    Ebastine
    Embramine
    Fexofenadine
    Levocetirizine
    Loratadine
    Meclozine (most commonly used as an antiemetic)
    Olopatadine (used locally)
    Pheniramine
    Promethazine
    Quetiapine (antipsychotic)

[edit] H2-receptor antagonists
Main article: H2 antagonist

H2 antagonists, like H1 antagonists, are also inverse agonists and not true antagonists. H2 histamine receptors, found principally in the parietal cells of the gastric mucosa, are used to reduce the secretion of gastric acid, treating gastrointestinal conditions including peptic ulcers and gastroesophageal reflux disease.

Examples:

    Cimetidine
    Famotidine
    Lafutidine
    Nizatidine
    Ranitidine
    Roxatidine

[edit] Experimental: H3- and H4-receptor antagonists

These are experimental agents and do not yet have a defined clinical use, although a number of drugs are currently in human trials. H3-antagonists have a stimulant and nootropic effect, and are being investigated for the treatment of conditions such as ADHD, Alzheimer's disease, and schizophrenia, whereas H4-antagonists appear to have an immunomodulatory role and are being investigated as anti-inflammatory and analgesic drugs.
[edit] H3-receptor antagonists
Main article: H3 antagonist

Examples:

    A-349,821
    ABT-239
    Ciproxifan
    Clobenpropit
    Thioperamide

[edit] H4-receptor antagonists

Examples:

    Thioperamide
    JNJ 7777120
    VUF-6002

Im thinking about those H2-receptor antagonists?
So the main problem could be the histamine thats being released while Orgasm? For the vasolidation is the H2 histamine receptor responsible. Perhaps blocking it with cimetidine, ranitidine, famotidine, and nizatidine before orgasm would make a sense?

H2-receptor-mediated vasodilation contributes to postexercise hypotension
Jennifer L. McCord, Julie M. Beasley, and John R. Halliwill

Department of Human Physiology, University of Oregon, Eugene, Oregon

Submitted 5 August 2005 ; accepted in final form 25 August 2005

The early (?30 min) postexercise hypotension response after a session of aerobic exercise is due in part to H1-receptor-mediated vasodilation. The purpose of this study was to determine the potential contribution of H2-receptor-mediated vasodilation to postexercise hypotension. We studied 10 healthy normotensive men and women (ages 23.7 ± 3.4 yr) before and through 90 min after a 60-min bout of cycling at 60% peak O2 uptake on randomized control and H2-receptor antagonist days (300 mg oral ranitidine). Arterial pressure (automated auscultation), cardiac output (acetylene washin) and femoral blood flow (Doppler ultrasound) were measured. Vascular conductance was calculated as flow/mean arterial pressure. Sixty minutes postexercise on the control day, femoral (?62.3 ± 15.6%, where ? is change; P < 0.01) and systemic (?13.8 ± 5.3%; P = 0.01) vascular conductances were increased, whereas mean arterial pressure was reduced (?–6.7 ± 1.1 mmHg; P < 0.01). Conversely, 60 min postexercise with ranitidine, femoral (?9.4 ± 9.2%; P = 0.34) and systemic (?–2.8 ± 4.8%; P = 0.35) vascular conductances were not elevated and mean arterial pressure was not reduced (?–2.2 ± 1.3 mmHg; P = 0.12). Furthermore, postexercise femoral and systemic vascular conductances were lower (P < 0.05) and mean arterial pressure was higher (P = 0.01) on the ranitidine day compared with control. Ingestion of ranitidine markedly reduces vasodilation after exercise and blunts postexercise hypotension, suggesting H2-receptor-mediated vasodilation contributes to postexercise hypotension.
Modify post Inline
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Habibou on July 14, 2011, 02:35:46 PM
Histamine are 2 things  =  neurotransmitters (for the brain cells) / the histamine stocked in every other cells of the body which detects the allergen.

The release implies (among many others)=
 
- important release of adrenaline/noradrenaline (mine were very high 2 hours after the O)
- tachycardia
- the contraction of respiratory ducts (which could explain the narrow throat, the lack of   oxygen into the cells which could create muscle pain (myalgia)but also lack of oxygen in the brain cells which could create brain fog if it lasts too long time.
- the contraction of digestive ducts (which could explain the diarrhoea)and nausea, gastric reflux, belly pain.

Perhaps, the "allergic reaction due to the fact the semen stays inside the body implies a release (during a long time) of histamine, which implies the disorders above" but also "the long lasting release of noradrenaline (which is the case in my blood tests) which creates a mental exhaustion in the first place (same as brain fog).

The semen stays inside the body could explain the long lasting release of histamine (which creates a lack of it after some time) explains why a simple "antihistamine" isn't enough. This creates a neurotransmitters disorder (unbalance) and the cognitive symptoms so.
This matches and seems clear with my own case!

Histamine is linked with many others neurotransmitters,
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Habibou on July 15, 2011, 01:33:57 PM
Thank you Victor! I just try to understand...
Look the additional consequences of histamine in the body : (from a french website + google translation)

-increases the power and frequency of the heartbeat (for the release of adrenaline)
-contributes to the onset of vomiting
-regulates the sleep-wake
-cuts appetite
-helps regulate body temperature, blood pressure and pain sensation
-contributes to the production of gastric acid and the functioning of the gastrointestinal  tract
-regulates the hormonal balance
-is a brain neurotransmitter

Also, I found the "histamine intolerance" on this website which appears mainly after :

-physical effort (i get that)
-sudden emotional stress (i get that)
-hormonal fluctuations (my comment :Orgasms make an hormonal fluctuation): Women often develop allergic reactions before the start of menstruation
-Infectious Diseases
-certain medications

High level histamine foods :

-alcoholic beverages (especially red wine, certain types of beer, sake) (my comment:could explain we feel very bad after little alcohol !, we perhaps have normal bad alcohol feeling + histamine intolerance
-Junkfood
-cheese (long uncured)
-sausage: sausage raw, salami, sausage
-meat: pork liver and beef (very high), Parma ham, gendarmes, Bündnerfleisch, bacon (histamine increases with maturation)
-coffee

How does the doctor he diagnosed an intolerance to histamine?
 The collection of detailed medical history (history) is the first step. The physician can help a diary kept by the patient about his diet and its disorders (where when? How?).
 
 In most cases, the doctor recommends an elimination diet(could explain why some arrives to lowerate POIS symptoms by diet?). This is for the patient to follow a diet low in histamine for about four weeks. In people with an intolerance to histamine proven, improvement of symptoms is so rapid. For a definitive diagnosis, the doctor performs a controlled oral challenge test.
 
 The following laboratory tests are performed in the diagnosis of histamine intolerance:

 measuring the level of vitamin B6
 measuring the activity of diaminoxydase
 histamine release test (stimulation test)
 measuring the level of histamine in the blood

The administration of vitamin C and vitamin B6 supplements appear to improve symptoms.
 Cromoglicic acid decreases the rate of histamine in the body and slows the release of histamine.

Last thing : The risk is particularly high in people suffering from inflammatory bowel disease or food allergy cross. Very few people suffer from a congenital deficiency of the enzyme.
 
 An excess of histamine can be caused by foods that are themselves rich in histamine or the "histamine release" that induce secretion of histamine by body cells. This results in allergic disorders. (personal case : I have many food intolerances)
sorry for the long post !
 ;D
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: hurray on July 17, 2011, 08:52:48 AM
Why didnt we try all antihistamines?
 

I took pretty high doses of diphenhydramine (Benadryl equivalent) for approximately 3 months, and I didn't notice any effect on my POIS symptoms. But of course that is only one antihistamine, and I am only 1 person  :)
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Starsky on July 17, 2011, 11:53:30 AM
I think we should try a combination of H1 and H2 antihistamines. For example fexofenadine and ranitidine. http://jap.physiology.org/content/101/6/1693.full
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Habibou on July 19, 2011, 09:42:53 AM
The histamine intolerance seems really possible " we get an important amount of Histamine after the O that we can t eliminate since we have a lack of diaminoxydase which kills the histamine inside the body and then creates our symptoms".

what do you think of it?
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Daveman on July 19, 2011, 09:56:51 AM
Interesting.

Why would Niacin or XN seem to work then? It stimulates the release of histamines, which when taken just before orgasm seems to eliminate POIS symptoms.

I don't want to disagree, just try to get to understand the whole mechanism better.

Would the histamine release caused by Niacin cut something short or break some cycle?

Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Habibou on July 19, 2011, 10:22:42 AM
First, we don t know if Niacin works for everybody, so we can make Hypothesis !
Only XN works and it has a vasodilatator function, so much more than Niacin... so according to me, the XN by injection has nothing to do with Niacin consequences in the body.

I guess the XN should realize a "good O" with an injection before. And the "no histamine delete/diaminoxydase"does not need a huge amount to delete the too much of histamine.
So in this hypothesis, we would have a lack of diaminoxydase and a too much amount of histamine which can t be eliminated.
I guess it could be a part of the explanation/solution...

For example, alcohol has a lot of histamine and when we drink it even a little, we feel very bad... same for carbs/junkfood !
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Starsky on July 19, 2011, 11:47:16 AM
after red wine i get every time head ache, congestion. Something like POIS
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Daveman on July 19, 2011, 02:00:49 PM
First, we don t know if Niacin works for everybody, so we can make Hypothesis !
Only XN works and it has a vasodilatator function, so much more than Niacin... so according to me, the XN by injection has nothing to do with Niacin consequences in the body.

I guess the XN should realize a "good O" with an injection before. And the "no histamine delete/diaminoxydase"does not need a huge amount to delete the too much of histamine.
So in this hypothesis, we would have a lack of diaminoxydase and a too much amount of histamine which can t be eliminated.
I guess it could be a part of the explanation/solution...

For example, alcohol has a lot of histamine and when we drink it even a little, we feel very bad... same for carbs/junkfood !

Both XN and Niacin have the same effects, although XN is stronger than the plain Niacin. Niacin like XN are known to have both vaso-dilator effects AND produce histamine release.

It's true, we have few results so far, but we can't throw out positive results of Niacin just like that. Remember this post http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=174.msg1932#msg1932 of a successfull Nicain test, which was preceeded by another by jivetalk where he indicated that Niacin did NOT work very well. The difference was that in the second test, the histamine release produced by Niacin was sought, by reducing the threshold through NOT taking a daily dosage, and taking the Niacin ONLY before orgasm.

I think Victor says the same about XN, that it should ONLY be taken just before (45 min. / one hour).

I wasn't actually aiming a destroying your theory, rather looking for some key link that might show how the whole histamine cycle works in POIS and WHY XN / Niacin tends to help many by "breaking that link?"
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Habibou on July 24, 2011, 04:27:42 PM
Interesting things about Histamine on Wikipedia :

H3 histamine receptor = Found on central nervous system and to a lesser extent peripheral nervous system tissue    Decreased neurotransmitter release: histamine, acetylcholine, norepinephrine, serotonin.

Suppressive effects

While histamine has stimulatory effects upon neurons, it also has suppressive ones that protect against the susceptibility to convulsion, drug sensitization, denervation supersensitivity, ischemic lesions and stress.[9] It has also been suggested that histamine controls the mechanisms by which memories and learning are forgotten.

I personnally take an H1 antihistamine which does not make anything on me, I should perhaps care of the H3 which has an important link with the brain ( memory/learning = cognitive)
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Daveman on July 24, 2011, 06:05:03 PM
Could be an interesting experiment!

This type 3 anti-histamine is easily found?

Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Habibou on July 25, 2011, 04:34:52 PM
I don't know ! I will require  :)
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: hurray on July 26, 2011, 05:41:12 AM

For example, alcohol has a lot of histamine and when we drink it even a little, we feel very bad... same for carbs/junkfood !

Having an O when I have consumed a medium-large quantity of alcohol actually decreases the POIS symptoms that follow for me - I have observed this over several years. Of course, getting drunk is extremely bad for your body, so I would never recommend that anybody else tried this.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: b_jim on September 26, 2011, 01:15:27 PM
I post here the point difficult to explain with histamines theory. Just some hypothesis ... :

Histamine are linked to orgasm, not to semen. After testicles surgery ejaculations are "dry" so the release of histamines by orgasm haven't change. If Pois is cured by the surgery Pois is linked to semen, not orgasm, the release of histamines is still present.
(about Animus case)

How to link testosterone therapy and histamines ? It seems the testosterone therapy didn't improve the symptoms which might be caused by histamine release like itchings, allergies.. I have found a link (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1665824/). For mice, T injections seems to affect histamines. But high or low levels, that is the question.
(Demo's case)

Anti-histamines don't work. There are no cases of improvement with anti-histamines. And M.Waldinger failed too with anti-histamine test. I saw you made a difference between H1,H2 and H3 (I remember there are other Histamine sites H4 and maybe H5). It's a good idea but I don't know if meds can activate the specific sites.

The delayed's cases. Anti-histamines are released just after orgasm. But some Pois cases feels the flu-like symptoms some hours later (myself). Dr Waldinger explained he has some delayed cases too and he tried to link the quick cases and the delayed cases to different types of immune cells and immune reaction types. I don't think histamine can cause a delayed effect.

Too much or too high ?
So, I'm a bit sceptic about histamines as a trigger of the flu-like symptoms. Histadellia (high histamine lveles) + orgasm = very high lvels = symptoms
[Dispite some think histadellia is linked to PE, interesting for me ]
 
But you said histamines can be linked to fatigue/cognition levels.
Histahenia = low levels (after orgasm) = fatigue

This point is more interesting for me. There is a link between Histamines and narcolepsy. Histamines controle day/night cycles and vigilence states.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Daveman on September 26, 2011, 01:41:13 PM
B_Jim take a look at this post. It's a bit intense "biologically speaking", but I think there are a lot of answers there.
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=197.0

Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: rock27 on September 26, 2011, 03:52:45 PM
I have quite some relief from antihistamines. This also prevents total crashes that would normally occur days later. I still feel fatigue then but no crash.
I think also Willem reported quite some relief from antihistamines. I don't know why it would work in some and not others.

Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Starsky on October 09, 2011, 01:03:18 PM
Orgasm Regulation

Histamine has also been found to play a significant role in sexual health due to its role in a completed orgasm. During sexual intercourse, mast cells collect in the male and female genitals, and in order for orgasm to complete, the mast cells trigger a massive release of histamine. Women who have significant difficulty reaching orgasm have been found to have very low blood plasma levels of histamine. In addition, both men and women treated with histamine supplements have reported increases in the quantity and quality of orgasms. Histamine plays such a vital role in male orgasm that antihistamines are sometimes prescribed by doctors for the treatment of pre-ejaculatory syndrome. The Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada state that cyproheptadine, a serotonin and histamine antagonist is an effective medical intervention in treating male sexual dysfunction.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/120565-histamine-effects/#ixzz1aJCFClry

In think when semen gets from the testis to the prostate histamine is released. To much histamine cause POIS! Did some one try Cyproheptadine, i think its the antihistamine that works in the genitals.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Willem on October 11, 2011, 03:51:56 PM
I have quite some relief from antihistamines. This also prevents total crashes that would normally occur days later. I still feel fatigue then but no crash.
I think also Willem reported quite some relief from antihistamines. I don't know why it would work in some and not others.

That's absolutely true.  I haven't tried Niacin (since I only like to try one thing at a time), but when I was on anti-histamines they worked similar to what people describe for Niacin.  If I took them before O, then they seemed to lessen the reaction and I could recover faster. If I take them after O, there was not so much of an effect.  The main thing for me was that my muscles felt much better while on anti-histamines. 

I wonder if some POIS cases aren't due to high histamine levels (allergic reaction) and some due to low histamine levels.  The more I read about people's accounts, the more it seems like there are perhaps two different causes of POIS.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: omen on October 12, 2011, 04:41:27 AM
I have quite some relief from antihistamines. This also prevents total crashes that would normally occur days later. I still feel fatigue then but no crash.
I think also Willem reported quite some relief from antihistamines. I don't know why it would work in some and not others.

That's absolutely true.  I haven't tried Niacin (since I only like to try one thing at a time), but when I was on anti-histamines they worked similar to what people describe for Niacin.  If I took them before O, then they seemed to lessen the reaction and I could recover faster. If I take them after O, there was not so much of an effect.  The main thing for me was that my muscles felt much better while on anti-histamines. 

I wonder if some POIS cases aren't due to high histamine levels (allergic reaction) and some due to low histamine levels.  The more I read about people's accounts, the more it seems like there are perhaps two different causes of POIS.
yes even i think there is definately some link because i have a tendency to catch up cold when i have a cold drink or an ice cream and at that time anti histamines like cetrizine work for me...the cold symtoms go away...
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: b_jim on October 16, 2011, 12:13:03 PM
About histamines :
http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C376401.html
Quote
Histapenia, is characterized by elevated levels of serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine, low whole blood histamine, and low absolute basophils. This population is characterized by the following typical symptoms: Absence of seasonal, inhalent allergies, but a multitude of chemical or food sensitivities, high anxiety which is evident to all, low libido, obsessions but not compulsions, tendency for paranoia and auditory hallucinations, underachievement as a child, heavy body hair, hyperactivity, "nervous" legs, and grandiosity.

The treatment program consists of the administration of zinc, manganese, vitamin C, niacin, vitamin B12, and folic acid. With this treatment the high blood copper is slowly reduced and symptoms are slowly relieved in several months' time.

After ejaculation, I'm clearly sensible to cold.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Vincent M on October 30, 2011, 06:50:02 PM
Update on my latest experiment: Claritin

I decided to try Claritin for my POIS symptoms because a few POIS members tried it with very positive results. Since it is an anti-histamine it seems to coincide with the autoimmune theory behind POIS. I bought the generic, Loratadine, because it's cheaper.

Day Zero: Followed my usual protocol but with double the dose of fenugreek and saw palmetto and 4 thera tears omega 3 caps for a boost for my job interview which I went to at 2pm. City driving added a lot of stress to an already stressful day.
12:30am- Before going to bed I took a 10mg Loratadine pill. Didn't take my usual saw palmetto.
12:52- Had an "o" then promptly fell asleep.

Day One:
9:17am- Woke up well rested. I didn't expect to get any results the first day because I generally feel okay if I took my usual regimen of fenugreek & saw palmetto the previous day. Felt fine all day and did a fair amount of POIS research.
11:42pm- Took 1 loratadine
12:18am- had an "o" then fell asleep.

Day Two:
~9am- woke up well rested.
9:50am- Wrote in my journal: "Have a slight headache, but otherwise feel fine." The headache went away, but came back later in the day and at one point was bad enough to cause me to stop researching and just rest for a bit. I felt that the Loratadine had built up in my system too much so I decided to go a night without it. Despite the headache I had a good feeling about the Claritin(Loratadine) because normally on this day my post orgasm symptoms would begin to return, but I felt fine all day except for the headache.
~11pm- Masturbated to orgasm. Didn't take Loratadine. Went to bed, but had an additional 1 or 2 orgasms before I got to sleep.

Day Three:
8:17am- Woke up well rested and the headache was gone.
10:59am- Still felt fine. By this time my symptoms should have returned since I hadn't taken any fenugreek in more than two days so I was getting a bit excited that Claritin might be more effective than I thought.
1:22pm- Felt good enough to go outside and chop wood. I never would've been able to do this without fenugreek. Normally my joint pain would be too intense and my muscles too weak. The fact that I was able to do this provides strong evidence to me that Loratadine is effective in preventing my post orgasm symptoms and it stays in my system remaining effective for at least an additional day after taking one 10mg pill.
7:53pm-  Been reading up on POIS for 3 hours now and my mental energy, focus, and concentration remain strong.  

Conclusion so far: Claritin(Loratadin) reduced my symptoms by at least 50%, perhaps more, for two full days now with roughly 3 to 4 orgasms in that time. It has made me a tad drowsy and it gives me a headache if I take too much, but these side-effects are nothing compared to my usual POIS pain. I won't be able to take a Claritin every other day for the rest of my life, but I think I'll be able to switch on and off between it and my herbal supplements to help ensure my body doesn't develop a tolerance to either. I'll update on Claritin/Loratadine after a longer period of testing. Also I have premature ejaculation so perhaps my histamine levels are naturally too high, but I don't think I've noticed an improvement in my PE from Claritin.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Willem on October 31, 2011, 11:20:19 AM
Thanks for sharing Vincent Marcus! 
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Vincent M on November 02, 2011, 11:40:16 AM
I've decided that one 10mg pill of Claritin(Loratadine) stays in my system and works to reduce much or most of my POIS symptoms for about 3 days(considering I have an "o" at least once a night). For instance I took one 10mg pill Sunday night, had an "o" before bed, woke up and had 3 more "o"s Monday morning(normally this would keep in bed for the next couple days) but I felt fine even good enough to practice some martial arts, had another "o" Monday night and then another Tuesday night and felt fine until this morning (Wednesday) when I had another "o" that I noticed some POIS symptoms from. I have everything written in my journal more specifically and I'll give these specifics later. Also Tuesday morning I did take fenugreek & saw palmetto which may have added to the effect of the Claritin.
Title: Absolutely Amazing!!
Post by: jacksonsean on November 15, 2011, 06:42:09 AM
I have been following a Vegan diet for only four days now (still eating a little bit of fish), I just ejaculated and my POIS symptoms are only 10% of what they normally are. I consider myself to normally have worse POIS symptoms than most people on this forum which last for up to 10 days. I started this diet when i found out that meat proteins increase the acidity in the blood and cause lymphocytes to create antibodies to fight of these proteins. Thus autoimmune effects are dramatically increased. I am so amazed with the results that I will continue diet and see if in a couple of weeks all my POIS symptoms disapear after ejaculation.

I would reccomend everybody to try it.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Daveman on November 15, 2011, 07:26:25 AM
Jacksonsean,

Hope it works for you. Personally it would be impossible for me to follow a vegan or even vegatarian diet.

I have tried many diets, and most of them work for a little bit, but such a lifestyle change, at least for me is practially impossible.

I might make it one or even two weeks, but forcing it beyond that would be almost as unconfortable as the POIS. It's a forced lifestyle, like abstention is.

Thankfully, with Niacin, my POIS has the prospect to be very much lighter.

Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: jacksonsean on November 15, 2011, 08:23:17 AM
Hi Dave,

I understand where your coming from, but for me, POIS has ruined every single thing in my life, ive tried all sorts of methods and never managed to get my POIS symptoms below 90%. My experience today however has blown my mind, ive been able to work out today and do some studying, I am normally bedridden for 3 days after ejaculation. Plus with all the research ive read supporting the cause of autoimmune disorders being animal protein, i know there is hard evidence to support why I feel so much better.

I am the biggest meat/dairy lover out there, all my friends always ask me if I had to be a vegetarian would i commit suicide?

Its quite ironic that I am now following a vegan diet.

I would plead you to do two things before you decide not to even try a vegan diet,

1) Read Dr. Colin Campbells chapter on Autoimmunde Disorders (I am sending you the e-book right now) and

2) Watch his documentary detailing how animal proteins cause many issues we face today (which I am also sending you via e-mail)

The only issue I have with the niacin treatment is that our body will become reliant on it and therefore start to require more and more, Niacin essentially protects our cells from the antibodies that our body creates, this is why it is often used to suppress the symptoms of Type-1 Diabetes. It does not however stop the creation of these antibodies.

Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: omen on November 15, 2011, 01:54:36 PM
Hi jackson...
I somehow feel you are right..I am vegetarian and I will try the vegan diet from today and let all know what change I discover...its possible for me to shift easily to vegan because I am brought up in that way all my life I have been a strict vegitarian and jus to stop having milk products will be easy for me...bye
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: sameer7777 on November 15, 2011, 03:53:19 PM
Well, you probably have to try at least, who knows. We can add it to our list of YES or NO.

Most probably becasue you are cognitively affected, it won'y help much, but give it a go!!



where is the list of yes and No , pls tell me the link
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Ccconfucius on November 15, 2011, 04:45:58 PM
Hi Dave,

I understand where your coming from, but for me, POIS has ruined every single thing in my life, ive tried all sorts of methods and never managed to get my POIS symptoms below 90%. My experience today however has blown my mind, ive been able to work out today and do some studying, I am normally bedridden for 3 days after ejaculation. Plus with all the research ive read supporting the cause of autoimmune disorders being animal protein, i know there is hard evidence to support why I feel so much better.

I am the biggest meat/dairy lover out there, all my friends always ask me if I had to be a vegetarian would i commit suicide?

Its quite ironic that I am now following a vegan diet.

I would plead you to do two things before you decide not to even try a vegan diet,

1) Read Dr. Colin Campbells chapter on Autoimmunde Disorders (I am sending you the e-book right now) and

2) Watch his documentary detailing how animal proteins cause many issues we face today (which I am also sending you via e-mail)

The only issue I have with the niacin treatment is that our body will become reliant on it and therefore start to require more and more, Niacin essentially protects our cells from the antibodies that our body creates, this is why it is often used to suppress the symptoms of Type-1 Diabetes. It does not however stop the creation of these antibodies.



what your friend dont know that pois is already suicide.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Ccconfucius on November 15, 2011, 04:55:53 PM
Hi jackson...
I somehow feel you are right..I am vegetarian and I will try the vegan diet from today and let all know what change I discover...its possible for me to shift easily to vegan because I am brought up in that way all my life I have been a strict vegitarian and jus to stop having milk products will be easy for me...bye
are you strict vegetarian right now,  am thinking if you are strict vegetarian and still have  pois, if taking out milk helps your pois then we ought to be looking into milk.

I have always being curious about milk.

jacksonean how long were you on diet before you started seeing results.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: jacksonsean on November 15, 2011, 05:15:30 PM
Hi,

Only 4 days, and I was still eating a small portion of fish, but all meat, dairy, eggs was cut out.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: jacksonsean on November 15, 2011, 05:18:11 PM
Just to add, I believe personal testimony is not substantial to stand alone, and our 'experiences' must be supported by theory and evidence, which I have gained from my research as described above. I encourage you to look into it.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Vincent M on November 16, 2011, 06:09:30 AM

I understand where your coming from, but for me, POIS has ruined every single thing in my life, ive tried all sorts of methods and never managed to get my POIS symptoms below 90%. My experience today however has blown my mind, ive been able to work out today and do some studying, I am normally bedridden for 3 days after ejaculation. Plus with all the research ive read supporting the cause of autoimmune disorders being animal protein, i know there is hard evidence to support why I feel so much better.

I am the biggest meat/dairy lover out there, all my friends always ask me if I had to be a vegetarian would i commit suicide?

Its quite ironic that I am now following a vegan diet.


What specific foods do you eat while on your vegan diet? I was a vegan for 5 months but the only positive result I found was that it reduced my sex drive. Other than that it just drained my strength and energy because I didn't know how to get the correct nutrients from only plant sources.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: omen on November 16, 2011, 06:24:19 AM
But what about the pois then??did it exist??
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: jacksonsean on November 16, 2011, 06:44:25 AM
Ive been eating a lot of fruits, lentils for protein, brown rice and sweet potato for carbs and vegetables for nutrients such as brocolli, kale, pepper ect. Were you following a strict vegan diet, for example did you drink milk/ eat cheese? And how were your POIS symptoms?
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Vincent M on November 16, 2011, 07:04:16 PM
Ive been eating a lot of fruits, lentils for protein, brown rice and sweet potato for carbs and vegetables for nutrients such as brocolli, kale, pepper ect. Were you following a strict vegan diet, for example did you drink milk/ eat cheese? And how were your POIS symptoms?


It was a strict vegan diet. No products that came from any animal including milk & cheese. I did eat brown rice and lentils, but I skipped out of the green veggies like brocolli and spinach which is probably where my mistake was. I also ate a lot of original lays potatoe chips since I was surprised they were a vegan meal lol. And peanut butter. I found that if a day went by without brown rice and beans I couldn't function due to exhaustion. Oh I ate a lot of various nuts as well. However the entire time I didn't have sexual activity leading to an "o" at all, but I did have a nocturnal emission every 3 to 4 weeks. My symptoms after those NEs manifested mainly as slightly burning eyes, exhaustion, brain fog, and back pain, but it was still during the period my POIS was in it's early development state.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: jacksonsean on November 16, 2011, 07:13:54 PM
Hi Vincent,

There is little evidence that I know of to suggest that certain vegetables help to decrease autoimmune disorders. The evidence merely supports certain animal proteins (in Mr Campbell's Studies- Dairy and Red meat) as a cause of autoimmune disorders. I think it will be a bit more time before we can say for sure if POIS can be eradicated be elliminating these foods. I would suggest trying at least to cut out red meat and dairy to see how that affects your symptoms.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Vincent M on November 20, 2011, 04:50:43 PM
Took one pill of diphenhydramine (generic Benadryl) last night about 15min before an "o" and today I felt great. I think I feel the best I have since I got POIS. I may still have some brain fog and I can tell my anxiety is still a bit high, but physically I'd say I'm 90% free of POIS. Mentally I'd say at least 50% free of POIS. I can't tell if benadryl works better than Claritin or not just yet, but it seems it does. Also it's possible that I feel good due to a cumulative effect of the other meds I've been taking. I plan on testing benadryl again next weekend. I don't have as much time to experiment now that I'm working unfortunately.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: hurray on November 27, 2011, 02:52:39 PM
Hi VM,

Feeling great is a potential side-effect of diphenhydramine, since it's a mild SSRI.

 
Quote
from wikipedia - In the 1960s, diphenhydramine was found to inhibit reuptake of the neurotransmitter serotonin. This discovery led to a search for viable antidepressants with similar structures and fewer side-effects, culminating in the invention of fluoxetine (Prozac), a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI).[24][25] A similar search had previously led to the synthesis of the first SSRI, zimelidine, from brompheniramine, also an antihistamine.

I hope you find diphenhydramine useful for treating your POIS - I look forward to more reports.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Daveman on November 27, 2011, 06:50:02 PM
Thanks guys, good information!
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Vincent M on November 27, 2011, 08:40:52 PM
I took 1 diphenydramine (benadryl) last night as well about 15 min before an "o" and today I had the same large reduction in POIS symptoms. About 80 to 90% of my physical symptoms are eliminated and about half of my cognitive symptoms. It seems that benadryl works stronger and prevents more POIS symptoms than claritin, but claritin lasts longer which is good for me because I can take a single claritin and be about set for 3 days before i have to take another since I "o" every night. I haven't tested yet to see if benadryl has the same residual effect, but I'm guessing it doesn't. I've decided I'm just going to switch between the two so I take less of a chance of developing a tolerance to either.

As I've read that alcohol suppresses the immune system I've also been experimenting with it and it seems I feel better on a day after I've drank a number of beers. This could be due to anxiety reduction however.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Vincent M on December 26, 2011, 05:52:06 PM
Last night I took 4 benadryl, 1 Claritin, two 100mg pills of niacin( one of which i cut open and took as powder), and 4 keystone light beers. I didn't notice a flush and had an orgasm an hour after the dose then went to bed. Felt great today. Basically no sign of POIS at all except some remaining cognitive slowness, but I feel that I'm closing in on the ideal med combination to start myself on a healing path.

as a side note I also did sublingual self treatment immediately following the orgasm. I ejaculated into a small cup filled with just a bit of water, mixed it with a spoon then held the mixture under my tongue for about 5 min. Had no reaction to the sublingual treatment, but I hope over time if I do it every night that the  treatment may help.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: b_jim on March 29, 2012, 09:12:17 AM
I quote again Horizon's first post :

Quote
* Histamine is necessary to modulate sleep.
* During an orgasm, histamine is released, and has been connected to the sex flush among women. However, men with high histamine levels may suffer from premature ejaculations.

I think this is the good point of view if allergy to semen is negative.
But I failed to get claritin today.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Going less Crazy on August 07, 2012, 08:59:55 PM
I am one of the POIS'ers with good results from antihistamines, specifically claritin 24-hour.  Usually I take claritin about an hour pre-orgasm and it leaves me probably 75% or greater symptom free.  While off claritin and on about day 5 since my last O, I am usually symptom free, but I noticed a strange ache in the back of my head.  This sometimes happens after I exercise, and I have been exercising a lot in the heat the past couple of days.  So for this strange "ache" I decided to take excedrin migraine.  It really didn't do anything.  So I got fed up with it and took a quarter of a claritin 24-hour pill.  It was almost instantaneously gone. I was just amazed how the claritin cleared the ache in my head that has been with me for about 2 days.


*updated
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: demografx on August 08, 2012, 01:36:41 AM

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Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Bulbo on May 25, 2013, 08:46:09 AM
Hello everyone. I tried antihistamine (desloratidine 5mg) and the muscle weakness and brain fog were gone.I was almost normal except for feeling sleepy. I was able to remember things but I felt very sleepy (which is a side effect of anti histamines). I have tried anti inflammatories and they too helped me (brain fog, muscle weakness were gone and I felt normal). I strongly feel that allergy to our reproductive secretions may be the cause for POIS. I come to know from this topic that antihistamines do not work for everyone. I do not know what causes POIS in those persons. But, in my case I strongly believe that allergy (Type 1 hypersensitivity reaction) is the cause for POIS.
             To say allergy is the cause for POIS,we should check our Serum IgE (Immunoglobulin E) level. I also kindly request those, for whom antihistamines did not work, to check your IgE levels. Immunoglobulin E triggers Type 1 hypersensitivity reactions by causing histamine release and histamine triggers production of inflammatory mediators.
             I checked my IgE level and it was 350 IU/ml ( normal value for adults is <190 IU/ml ).
             I have copied a quote from my textbook about allergy (atopy or type 1 hypersesitivity reaction). The quote is as follows.
" Predisposition to atopy is genetically determined, probably linked to MHC genotypes. Atopy therefore runs in families. What is inherited is not sensitivity to a particular antigen, or a particular atopic syndrome but the tendency to produce IgE antibodies in unusually large quantities. All individuals are capable of forming IgE antibodies in small amounts, but in atopics IgE production is markedly high."
             I think I have inherited the gene to produce markedly increased amount of IgE. But unlike my parents, I have developed type 1 hypersensitivity against my reproductive secretions. After type 1 hypersesitivity reaction has been triggered , the other type of hypersensitivity reactions like type2,3 or 4 can accompany. This means that different type of hypersensitivity reactions can co-exist.
             If you are interested to read about different hypersensitivity reactions, read this textbook " Pathological basis of disease" by Robbins and cotran 8th edition. Read topic "Hypersensitivity reactions" in chapter 6 "Diseases of immune system".This is a standard book used by medical students. There are pdf versions of the book available in the internet.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Vincent M on May 25, 2013, 10:01:58 AM
Hello everyone. I tried antihistamine (desloratidine 5mg) and the muscle weakness and brain fog were gone.I was almost normal except for feeling sleepy. I was able to remember things but I felt very sleepy (which is a side effect of anti histamines).

How long has desloratadine been working to improve your pois symptoms?
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Bulbo on May 25, 2013, 10:11:54 AM
Hello everyone. I tried antihistamine (desloratidine 5mg) and the muscle weakness and brain fog were gone.I was almost normal except for feeling sleepy. I was able to remember things but I felt very sleepy (which is a side effect of anti histamines).

How long has desloratadine been working to improve your pois symptoms?
Desloratidine 5mg helped me for about 6 hours
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Vincent M on May 25, 2013, 08:13:05 PM
Thanks. Be sure to let us know if it continues to help you in the following weeks.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: b_jim on June 28, 2013, 09:14:53 AM
I will make an IgE test (and probably testosterone).
Should I have an ejaculation the day after (12 hours before) ?
Which iGE should be tested, total or specific ?
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: FornicationDENIED on June 28, 2013, 01:29:02 PM
I will make an IgE test (and probably testosterone).
Should I have an ejaculation the day after (12 hours before) ?
Which iGE should be tested, total or specific ?


If POIS is allergic, IgE will be present after ejaculation only, so you must ejaculate and take the test as soon as possible after O.I would suggest to ejaculate sooner than 12 hours before test because by that time the IgE already activated mast cells and the reaction already occured.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: b_jim on June 29, 2013, 01:03:00 AM
Thanks for answer. Not easy to do then i will probably test hormones only. And I will try claritine.

edit : i have the claritine now. I will test it the next days. I have bloodtest for hormones, white cells, some vita and minerals. I think I will ejaculate 12-16 hours before bloodtest. Results soon.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Chris on September 26, 2013, 10:12:26 AM
So i want to try antihistamine for first time.Is claritin(loratadine) ok ? Should i follow any particular method ? Any tips ?
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Chris on September 28, 2013, 09:47:54 AM
I didnt get any answer in my previous post on this topic but anyways.

I tried claritin(loratadine) yesterday and i didnt have any result.Obviously antihistamines doesnt work for me nor niacin.

So i have to look for other meds.Just hoping to be more lucky next time.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: b_jim on September 28, 2013, 11:16:52 AM
I think we should focus on testosterone not only its normal blood level but its synthesis and cofactors.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Stef on November 15, 2013, 12:01:23 AM
Yike, once again I tried the diphenhydramine and it seemed to work great! I was so happy until late the next day (tonight) when the effects wore off and now I have symptoms again full force! :'(

Next try: abstaining for months!! PS: I say this now, but a weekish later I'll be thinking "it's not gonna be this bad. I'm gonna go for it". Around in a circle it seems sometimes...

Prancer -- have you considered taking the diphenhydramine
for a few days in a row?  It might help you get through the worst of it.

Stef
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Prancer on November 15, 2013, 08:20:19 PM
Yike, once again I tried the diphenhydramine and it seemed to work great! I was so happy until late the next day (tonight) when the effects wore off and now I have symptoms again full force! :'(

Next try: abstaining for months!! PS: I say this now, but a weekish later I'll be thinking "it's not gonna be this bad. I'm gonna go for it". Around in a circle it seems sometimes...

Prancer -- have you considered taking the diphenhydramine
for a few days in a row?  It might help you get through the worst of it.

Stef

Hey Stef! Yes, I take it just about every night to help me fall asleep. To reduce my pois symptoms, I took it before orgasm, but it also definitely helps to take it while in pois. It seems to calm my overactive mind down, which is a big problem for me during a bad pois day because the constant thinking REALLY messes up my cognition. I take it only at night because I become drowsy.

Prancer
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: underwater on November 23, 2013, 01:03:49 PM
Area for further inquiry:

"Seminal Plasma Protein Hypersensitivity" has been widely discussed with respect to disturbing female responses to male semen (it is as rare as pois). I see this as an interesting area to study, as it may offer some clues.   Those afflicted women respond/react
to the direct introduction of the "male proteins" by a variety of debilitating symptoms. These have been alleviated by anti-histamines.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Disaster on May 23, 2014, 04:52:10 AM
I am very allergic to my own semen. If  i don't wipe it well or catch in a tissue then I can end up sneezing a lot and it weakens my spine where i can throw out my back. I have a similar issue to sweating. But no antihistamine helps at all i tried a bunch of. H1 and H2s. There is something called Mast cell activation disease MCaD and basically it means the mast cell which release histamines is malfunctioning and creates weird allergies.


Has anyone tried singulair, Ketotifen or Xolair?
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: ozmoses on July 09, 2014, 02:56:52 PM
Anyone have labs done to show their histamine levels?  I'd be curious to know what others have seen.

I actually had histamine labs done and just got the results.  71 ng/ml  Apparently the lab reference range is 12-127 but the Walsh/Pfeiffer Fuctional Range is 40-70. 

Not exactly sure what to make of this, but I'm starting a mild anti-histamine regimen.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: POISrival on August 11, 2014, 10:18:58 AM
I have been taking a Syrup made from Chlorpheniramine maleate(AntiHistaminic)+Dexamethasone(Glucocoriticoid Steriod usually prescribed for adrenal fatigue) even when I don't orgasm. I feel quite different. I'm getting more flashes of full functionality.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: fidalgo on August 11, 2014, 12:15:16 PM
I have been taking a Syrup made from Chlorpheniramine maleate(AntiHistaminic)+Dexamethasone(Glucocoriticoid Steriod usually prescribed for adrenal fatigue) even when I don't orgasm. I feel quite different. I'm getting more flashes of full functionality.

Intersting...

What dose are you taking?
Dou you improve a lot??
I?m thinking in experiment that...
What the brand name of your Syrup?
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: POISrival on August 12, 2014, 02:15:00 AM
Hello Fidalgo!

Each 5ml of the syrup contains 2mg chlorpheniramine maleate and 0.5 mg dexamethasone. Usually 10-15ml before orgasm is enough and the same dose next day in the morning. if you have POIS permanent downsides like I do, it might be helpful to take it on No-orgasm days. please, consult a doctor first tho and read about the side effects and contraindications to avoid any risks.
It helps me with OCD, makes orgasms more enjoyable, suppresses my stress and lessens my dissociation problems. it works as if it eliminates the side effects and gives my a brain a chance to recover.
The brand name is Apidone. It's a locally produced over-the-counter drug in Egypt.

Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: POISrival on September 04, 2014, 11:50:35 AM
Just wanted to update I still get excellent results with the syrup.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: stevenoc on September 09, 2014, 11:53:07 AM
I have been trying to get apidone syrup as id love to try it. Only found it on a few websites and keep getting problems. I think ill buy the ingredients separately but that's quite expensive.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: stevenoc on October 08, 2014, 10:45:57 AM
Managed to get some dexamethasone 0.5mg tablets. I started taking at a low dose and didnt notice any difference. Then I got bad POIS and took 3 tablets. And I have to say so far it has worked great at only 1.5mg. I don't feel tired. I don't have an achy head. I don't feel depressed and so on....I feel totally normal. I took the tablets yesterday morning and haven't felt the need to take any today. Only side affect is that it took me a while to get to sleep last night. Its still early on and will update in a couple of weeks to test it in the long term.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: sameer7777 on October 26, 2014, 03:49:42 PM
but that steroids you are taking please be careful ............!!
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: FloppyBanana on October 27, 2014, 01:29:24 PM
FYI - Progesterone, testosterone and vitamin D are steroids.
FB
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: sameer7777 on October 27, 2014, 03:41:30 PM
Vitamin d steroid ???
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: vamerty on January 25, 2015, 03:12:58 PM
Vitamin d steroid ???
I thought the same mate
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: berlin1984 on May 13, 2021, 02:44:13 PM
"men with high histamine levels may suffer from premature ejaculations"? Or is it just one of those coincidences?

Or the other way round: One strategy for avoiding hornyness (to delay it to evening for activity with wife or even to delay it to weekend) one think that works for me is Cetirizine (brand name Zyrtec in US).
Side effect: Issues with erection...
Anti-Histamine => Problem getting an erection.

(In general for me, If i don't have an orgasm every x days, I suddenly get very foggy und unfocused. No way for me to work like that. So I have to have an orgasm. But as mentioned above, it's sometimes inconvenient so better to delay it. Sex causes me less problems than masturbation. And masturbation during day and sex in evening would cause a lot of problems. So then comes the cetirizine)

Note: Other bad side effects might be fertility / sperm issues:
https://www.google.com/search?q=antihistamines+fertility&oq=antihistamines+fertility
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS? (Thread about Antihistamines too)
Post by: Unvers on June 11, 2021, 03:44:42 AM
Antihistamines sometimes I happened to try them in POIS because taken for allergic rhinitis and it seems to me to improve the symptoms a little, drugs that increase histamine such as modafinil that I would like to try to combat daytime fatigue but I'm afraid they can worsen both POIS and allergy.

Proven antihistamines: cetirizine and mirtazapine, the latter is also an antidepressant and could help if you have cognitive POIS that leads to depression but beware that from a crazy daytime sleepiness and increases appetite, it made me gain a lot of kilos.

My POIS is only cognitive.
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS? (Thread about Antihistamines too)
Post by: VSmasher on July 18, 2021, 10:08:34 PM
Can Histamines help POIS? I dont know.

Heres some Histamine information
Histamine is a hormone/chemical transmitter and important protein that is involved in local immune responses, regulates stomach acid production and acts as a mediator in allergic reactions. This is the bad part we most often read about.

Histamine has many good functions too.
* It plays an important role as it is released as a neurotransmitter, necessary for our brain cells to "communicate" properly. Neurotransmitters are chemicals that are used to relay, amplify and modulate electrical signals between a neuron and other cell.

* Histamine is necessary to modulate sleep.
* During an orgasm, histamine is released, and has been connected to the sex flush among women. However, men with high histamine levels may suffer from premature ejaculations.
* Classified schizophrenia patients often have low blood levels of histamine. This can be a side effect of their antipsychotic medication. When this seemed to be the case, as histamine levels were increased, their health improved.

What causes allergies?
Allergies are caused by an immune response to a normally harmless substance, i.e. pollen or dust. When these come into contact with specific antigens in our blood (part of the white blood cells, so-called mast cells) this triggers a response and histamine is released.

The release of histamine causes several allergic symptoms, for it contributes to an inflammatory response and causes constrictions of smooth muscle.
* The allergic reaction causes blood fluids to enter the area, causing swelling. (Vasoactive).
* The constrictions of the smooth muscle are seen during an asthma attack. The muscles surrounding the airway constrict, causing shortness of breath.

An allergic reaction is a response that should not be happening because the substance that triggers is should not be dangerous to us. Sometimes we have the "luxury" to allow our immune system to run its course, but then we have to sniffle our way through the pollen seasons.
Sometimes a harmless looking allergic reaction may develop into a potentially life threatening situation. Take for example, a bee sting.
Anti-histamines are widely available nowadays, and help the body to overcome its immunological "mistakes".

Histamine and amines (histamine-like substances) can be found in foods, but also develop after cooking and storage. This happens especially with fermented foods, but sometimes during normal cooking procedures.
Amines are formed from specific amino acids that are present (to a certain agree) in all foods.

The most common food amines are:
* Histamine
* Phenylethylamine
* Serotin
* Tyramine
* Dopamine

Allergic reactions to these amines can be:
* Vaso-active affects the width of blood vessels
* Vaso-dilating widens the blood vessels
* Vaso-constricting narrows the blood vessels

Even foods that don't contain histamine can trigger an allergic reactions, but often additives are the culprits.
Food products that are known to cause allergies are:
Raw egg white, shellfish, strawberries, citrus fruit and pineapple, chocolate, tomatoes, alcohol, fish and pork.

People usually react pretty soon, during or after the meal, and untreated, the reaction may last 24-48 hours.
When people react e.g. because of tyramine causes, the symptoms are different.

Alcohol consumption can provide histamine, trigger its release, and prevent a histamine breakdown.
Histamine and alcohol share the alcohol dehydrogenase enzyme during the metabolism stage.
We've seen the important part histamine plays in the functioning of our body - we can't live without it.
But the moment an allergic reaction sets in, it seems to create havoc.
We do well to pay attention, and ask the advice of a specialist if we become allergic, either to food, dust or "unknown" things.

Every new allergic reaction may be stronger than the previous one, and potentially more dangerous.

Don't think it "will pass" or go away by itself. It won't.
If you are allergic, you'll need that anti-histamine "backup" at home, in order to stop the "attack" in its tracks. Don't self-medicate. Ask your doctor's advice. He may want to do some specific tests, in order to prescribe specific medication.
Knowing what to do when you experience an allergic reaction, treat it accordingly (with the right medication) will save you a (frightening) trip to the first aid department.


What are your thoughts/experiences?

Do have science that shows  "men with high histamine levels may suffer from premature ejaculations"? Or is this just a theory?
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS?
Post by: Journey on July 22, 2021, 06:15:07 AM
"men with high histamine levels may suffer from premature ejaculations"? Or is it just one of those coincidences?

Or the other way round: One strategy for avoiding hornyness (to delay it to evening for activity with wife or even to delay it to weekend) one think that works for me is Cetirizine (brand name Zyrtec in US).
Side effect: Issues with erection...
Anti-Histamine => Problem getting an erection.

(In general for me, If i don't have an orgasm every x days, I suddenly get very foggy und unfocused. No way for me to work like that. So I have to have an orgasm. But as mentioned above, it's sometimes inconvenient so better to delay it. Sex causes me less problems than masturbation. And masturbation during day and sex in evening would cause a lot of problems. So then comes the cetirizine)

Note: Other bad side effects might be fertility / sperm issues:
https://www.google.com/search?q=antihistamines+fertility&oq=antihistamines+fertility
I just took 10mg Zyrtec and 500mg Aspirin, maybe slightly unclogs my breathing and lungs and slightly boosts digestion but hard to tell, I may need to wait more hours to see if that has got any sort of effect on POIS
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS? (Thread about Antihistamines too)
Post by: ozmoses on August 30, 2021, 07:18:52 PM
I'd highly encourage everyone here to look into the acetylcholinesterase (AChE) deficiency component of POIS as orgasm can create a sort of cholinergic crises for some/many of us. This is why some antihistamines (that are anticholinergic- like first generations (benadryl/chlorpheniramine, etc) are helpful.   Cholinesterase testing is cheap and can be ordered through sites like ultalabtests.com  A deficiency in AChE can result in excessive sweating, excessive urination, fatigue, irritability, soft bowel movements, etc.  We have to be careful with foods/proteins that are high in choline as low AChE means acetylcholine isn't broken down at normal levels.   

In my case, POIS became much worse after H Pylori, streptococcus/enterococcus levels became very high in my gut- found out the GI Map stool testing. I encourage everyone to do this.  Could be a game changer for some... has been for me.  Learning more about AChE has been huge too.  Nootropics like Piracetam, Centrophenoxine and Alpha Lipoic acid help lower or utilize acetylcholine and lower it's burden.   Hot showers/baths/sweating is important for detox. 
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS? (Thread about Antihistamines too)
Post by: Hopeoneday on August 31, 2021, 06:41:33 AM
Hi ozmozes.
It is posible for some poisers.
On the odher side, there are poisers types who are been helped by taking
mytelase.. look for Quantum pois type charts..

ALA is capable to move toxins from brain...
Title: Re: Histamines for POIS? (Thread about Antihistamines too)
Post by: mike_sweden on September 01, 2021, 02:00:53 PM
i recently moved to new apartment and most of my clogged nose issues has disappeared

most likely dust and mold caused it