Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (P.O.I.S.)

POIS Cause/Treatment Discussions => General Alternative Causes and Treatments of POIS => Topic started by: Quantum on July 01, 2015, 11:24:44 PM

Title: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on July 01, 2015, 11:24:44 PM
After many years with POIS ( 37 years now),  I  have found things that helped me decrease the severity of my symptoms.  Then, last November  (2014) , I have found this forum.  After many months of testing the new information I have found on this forum,  I have refined and added to my prevention and control method, and have currently an 80% to 100% rate of success.  So here is what I do, and it works for me safely.

Before describing the combination of supplements I take before release, which is a key in my higher rate of success,  I cannot leave untold the following parts of my overall POIS control method, because, without these, I do not think the supplements alone would bring me as much relief as they currently do:

Healthy diet:   about 15 years ago, I have started to eat a more healthy diet.  It has been an ongoing process.  Now, I may have an ultra-healthy diet.  Not a cure in itself, but it sure has helped reduce the fatigue and the severity of the POIS symptoms I used to have.  So, no refined sugars, no artificial flavor or color, no preservatives, no MSG, no aspartame, no suspect ingredients ( yes I read all the food labels), no fruit juices ( just whole fruits), no HFGS, no milk ( I can eat cheese, but milk causes tons of mucus production in my sinuses and in my bowels, I have replaced it by hemp, almond or rice drink in my morning organic cereals ),..  I have introduced organic food, healthy spices, healthy veggies, veal liver, dried fruits and nuts, organic wheatgrass juice, omega-3, sources of tryptophan, lots of source water, etc... I take probiotics with Lactobacillus and Bifidus strains.  All that has taken care of any bowel inflammation problems I had, which, in my opinion, worsen POIS ( I already have written about this)  Also,  I have reduced quantities I eat by half, at least ( and did not have lost a pound).  I am not a diet freak:  I eat meat, fish, eggs, dark chocolate, I sometimes drink wine, and I do not eat tofu at all - it's tasteless!  I eat at the restaurant with friends - it's just like, I won't order French fries and will choose something healthier on the menu.

Regular exercise:   a good sweat two times a week ( my preferences are badminton and tennis in double - the social/team aspect is a real bonus for me).  Exercise is good for the brain and for the body.   On the second day of POIS, if I have residual symptoms, they will be gone after exercise.  I never work out/exercise two days in a row, because I recover very slowly, and ejaculation plus two times of sport, within 2 days, is too much for me to take, and I may have 30 to 40% POIS symptoms relapse because I got too tired, and that's way too much for my new standards of emotional quality of life.  If I get 20% symptoms the day following ejaculation,I avoid exercising that day and wait for another day.  With 90% to 100% relief, no problem to exercise that day or the day after. 

Abstaining from release as much as possible:   my prevention method is based on one or two ejaculations a month and seems to also work at once a week  ( I do not think it would work for me with multiple ejaculations in the same week).  It would take me 5 to 8 weeks without ejaculation, approx., before I may have a NE, so with one or two releases a month, I usually do not have NE.  That way, I can manage at what time I will have a release ( timing is important, as you all know!), and will be able to have taken my pre-pack before. Obviously, with my wife, my 2 kids, my business, my friends, I have much to enjoy in life, and I have not much time to devote to "POIS life suspensions", waiting to get my life back, so I have ejaculations the less often possible. Furthermore, I am now 50 y/o, and sex has not the same importance for me now.   Of course, in a relationship for 28 years ( yes guys, it is possible, even with POIS), it is important to keep an active sexual life, and I have done so, through the years. I have managed to develop some useful strategies ( like not every relation has to end with me having a release, etc...), and found a long time ago that magnesium and green tea were helping me with POIS, so I have managed to survive.

Psychotherapy: anxiety from any sources adds up.  My childhood has left me with a tendency for anxiety ( you can call it a general anxiety disorder), and I had to live with anxiety way before POIS.  POIS will worsen my anxiety level a lot, whatever it is at the moment.  After 8 years of psychotherapy, my regular anxiety level is now low.  I'd rather raise from 1 to 3, than raise from 7 to 10, which was very detrimental to me and to those around me.   The anxiety from POIS is not "all in my head" of course, but a part of it is/was.  I have to be careful and keep my baseline anxiety as low as possible.

Daily yoga and meditation: also help to keep my baseline anxiety level as low as possible.  Again, my main POIS symptoms, apart from fatigue and hypotension, are mostly emotional:  anxiety, irritability, mood swings, dysphoria, social phobia, lack of motivation, low self-esteem, and the like.  Daily yoga and meditation have been of great help in staying centered and calm. ( P.S. 2016-01:  after reading about the Polyvagal Theory, about Heart Rate Variability ( HRV ), and also about the Cholinergic Anti-inflammatory Pathway, it has become clear to me that yoga and meditation are also a good way to reduce inflammation because they raise the vagal nerve activity, which in turn reduces the inflammation reactions in the body through the Cholinergic Anti-inflammatory Pathway, involving the spleen and the immune cells in it - see http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2200.msg17995#msg17995 (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2200.msg17995#msg17995) for details.  Other ways to raise Heart Rate Variability, like spending time with loved ones, are also as good! )

Now, here is the composition of what I call my "pre-ejaculation pack", or pre-pack,  which are the supplements I take before release in order to prevent my POIS symptoms. This is my current version, and every element is there for a reason ( written in brackets ). You will notice I like low and safe doses of several things, instead of high doses of just a few things, so what I take are safe doses:

1 x Quercetin 500mg / Bromelain 750GDU (TDO inhibitor, antioxidant, anti-allergy, mast cells stabilizer )
1x Peppered curcumin  (Curcuma longa 400 mg + piperin 5mg) (IDO inhibitor, anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, mast cells stabilizer, anxiolytic )
1 x 5-HTP 50mg  ( serotonin precursor )
1 x Green tea extract 200mg ( antioxidant,  raises blood pressure, potentiation of 5-HTP in the brain by inhibiting its peripheral metabolism by Dopadecarboxylase, NMDAR blocker, mast cells stabilizer [EGCG] )
1 x Magnesium 100mg / tablet (NMDAR blocker, potassium regulator)
2 x Flaxseed oil,  1000mg/caps ( NMDAR blocker, antioxidant )
1 x Omega-3 triple concentration, 600 mg EPA/ 300 mg DHA ( emotional support/anxiolytic, anti-inflammatory effect )
1 x Lycopene  10mg (antioxidant having an affinity for the prostate )
1 x L-Theanine 250mg (NMDAR blocker, and supposed mast cells stabilizer )
1 x potassium citrate ( electrolytic rebalancing) ( IMPORTANT WARNING:  I personally have a tendency to low potassium , = hypokalemia. This is a personal condition, so, do not take potassium supplements without the advice of your health professional,  if you take too much of it for your own needs, it can be dangerous, and can even cause fatal cardiac arrhythmia )

If I have time to, I swallow the 11 pieces of my pack with "rosemary water", that is, a glass of water with one drop of rosemary essential oil in it ( rosmarinic acid act as an IDO inhibitor, and also has GABA-enhancing properties through GABA transaminase inhibition, and rosemary also contains luteolin, a mast cells stabilizer ).

For my pre-pack to be effective, I have to take it at least 15 minutes before release, and best if 30 to 60 minutes before.  But not always possible, in a relationship... when things happen spontaneously, I take my pre-pack just at the beginning, and since I have become, with time, better than a Taoist monk at delaying a release, it is no big deal for me to make it last 15 to 20 minutes, so the active ingredients have time to make it to my bloodstream and everywhere in my body.  Obviously, since there are many different supplements in my pre-pack and ti is rather long to prepare, I always have one pack prepared in advance at my bedside, along with some water.  If I am not disciplined and take it after release, even if only 2 to 10 minutes after, the prevention and control is far less effective  ( better than nothing, but not impressive and very disappointing when I have known better relief).


Now, a short explanation about why I have chosen these particular supplements.

Of course, it is tailored to my own symptoms.  For example, I have low blood pressure as one of my main symptoms, so green tea extract helps with that.
 
Blocking the NMDA receptors is good to lower anxiety level and for other psychological symptoms, so I have put a few in there  ( Mg have been in fact the first effective tool I have found against my POIS , 15 to 20 years ago).  NMDA receptor blockers in general seem to be good for me.  As a side note, taurine is, among other things, an NMDA receptors blocker, and I read some members had good results with it ( I think about B_jim, in particular).  It has a good effect for me too, as taurine helps with anxiety, but I have it in powder, so I did not include it in my pre-pack for practical reasons.  I don't know if the effectiveness of taurine, magnesium, L-theanine, zinc, or the lignan in flaxseed oil, is related to their NMDA receptor blocking properties, but they are all beneficial for my POIS.  Anyway, NMDAR blockers are known for their neuroprotective properties against excitotoxicity, and I believe there is excitotoxicity involved in POIS pathophysiology ( in particular, I think, from quinolinic acid, as I have mentioned before).   I have read that some POIS sufferers had good results with tramadol, a potent NMDAR blocker, but I didn't try it, I have chosen not to treat myself with prescription drugs, since I can have good results with natural products and OTC products.

GABA agonists are good for anxiety, so molecules enhancing GABA activity like rosmarinic acid, which can be found in rosemary and other spices and herbs like lemon balm, marjoram, basil, oregano, are good for me.

IDO and TDO inhibitors are good to protect the brain from the change in tryptophan metabolic pathways that I think may be involved in POIS.  It works best for me if I use at least one IDO inhibitor with one TDO inhibitor, to block both metabolic ways by which kynurenine is produced ( this may be not the exact scientific reason why TDO inhibitors and IDO inhibitors work for my POIS, but what is sure is that they do help.  However, the kynurenine pathways implication has been scientifically proven in other illnesses, like depression, Huntington disease, and in some auto-immune diseases, so this is not folklore )

Serotonin is good for calm, well-being, socialization, and it also helps raise blood pressure. So 5-HTP, a direct serotonin precursor,  is good for me, in a low dose.

Antioxidants are useful in blocking the formation of pro-inflammatory cytokines( like IL-6, TNF-alpha, etc...) , from the hypersensitivity/allergy reactions I think are part of POIS pathophysiology ( see http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1988.msg15559#msg15559 (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1988.msg15559#msg15559) for more details about this) .  So, my hypothesis is using a combination of various antioxidants blocks many different paths of production of those cytokines and reduces the "cytokine storm" of the hypersensitivity reactions following release.  Antioxidants all have some anti-inflammatory properties.  By blocking different parts of the auto-immune reaction, and blocking different inflammatory cytokines, they have specific effects.  Some are known, like the known positive effects of lycopene on prostate inflammation, or the known anti-allergic properties of quercetin and bromelain.  In my own experience, anti-oxidants have a positive effect on my energy level, and on my overall health.




My POIS severity is not always the same, and I do not know why.  Sometimes, when POIS is harsher, my pre-pack is not enough to get 100% prevention and relief ( that is why I say that I have from 80% to 100% relief with my method).  If there are some POIS symptoms even if I have taken my pre-pack , I will take some other supplements every 3 to 4 hours as needed.  I monitor my blood pressure, and I also have ways to estimate my level of fatigue and level of anxiety and irritability, so I can very accurately determine how relieved I am.

For low blood pressure: Currently, I have no more low blood pressure problems if I take my pre-pack correctly.  However, If I notice after release that my BP is becoming borderline low ( which is for me, something like 107/68), I take some rosemary or some green tea extract, or sometimes another 25mg of 5-HTP with some green tea extract. Also, as needed throughout the day, I take water with salt added to it ( salt causes fluid retention, which makes blood pressure raise - that's why salt must be avoided by those who have hypertension).  Salted water is cheap and very effective to raise blood pressure.   For tolerance, you have to see what one's is able to take.  I can take 1/4 teaspoon in a glass of water with no problem.  It takes about 20 to 30 mins to show results on the blood monitor.  Once my diastolic ( the second, smaller figure) raises at 70 or higher, I feel ok.
Having no more hypotension and extreme fatigue is in itself a great, great success for me in POIS control, and can be accounted as a 50% relief at least.  Hypotension has been causing me a loooooot of fatigue, lightheadedness, intolerance to exercise, cold sweat, depressive feelings, a sense of powerlessness, trouble going through my day at work, and so on.


For residual fatigue : even if I have no hypotension ( low blood pressure), I can sometimes feel a certain level of fatigue, even if I have taken my pre-pack. I then take one or two of the following, at a moderate dose, which are essentially antioxidants and or IDO or TDO inhibitors:  ginkgo biloba, vitamin C, grape seed extract, milk thistle,  Vitalux\AREDS blend of antioxidants (cheap and easily found in pharmacies as they are used as eye vitamins, against age-related macular degeneration - ARMD ),  lycopene, green tea extract, Moducare, peppered turmeric, or other good antioxidants blend, like SuperVision, from Webber Naturals.

For residual anxiety, irritability, and other emotional symptoms:   I will add some omega-3, some flaxseed oil, some l-theanine, some other magnesium, or other NMDAR antagonists, like taurine and zinc.   If it is near bedtime, I can use Relora or Passionflower, but not during the day, they cause me too much drowsiness.

My POIS used to last 2 to 3 days.  Now, with my current method of prevention and control,  I sometimes have no POIS at all.  Sometimes I have to take some supplements 1 or 2 hours after release. and sometimes I may have to take a few supplements again up to 8 to 12 hours after release, when the effect of my pre-pack seems to fade away a bit, But rarely now do I need to take some supplements the day after. 

I know that what works for me won't necessarily work for another one.  But I hope the success I have with these supplements and this overall method will help inspire and motivate others to build a similar overall approach for themselves.  Take note that it took me quite some time, I didn't get to 80% -100% success quickly.  Some of the elements of my pre-pack are known beneficial to me for over 10 to 15 years, like magnesium, green tea extract, and rosemary essential oil.  Some others are more recent, and some came only since I have found this forum.  The idea is that I have found some core components that I know for sure are beneficial for me, then I have kept them at the same low to moderate dosage, and slowly have added other supplements one by one, not changing everything each time, or I will have never succeeded in knowing what works or not for me.  I have a file of every pre-pack versions I have used in the last year, what time before release I have taken it, and what results I got  ( Blood pressure monitoring, symptoms after 1 hour, after 2 hours, after 4 hours, and so on)  so it has helped me keep a rational and scientific approach in developing my pre-pack. 

Considering the nature of this post, I have to add this disclaimer: you are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259 (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259)

Thank you

Quantum
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on July 01, 2015, 11:50:43 PM
Just to make it clear that I not only had successes in developing my relief method, and had to try and test many things before finding a combination that really works well for me and is safe, I will mention a few things that didn't work for me, or that made me worse. I will not list all I have tried, but my most relevant "fails"

Niacin
Niacin did not add anything for me, neutral (no negative effects), but no positive effects for my hypotension, or fatigue, or anxiety, and other emotional symptoms.  In my opinion, it seems more beneficial for those who have cluster 3 symptoms, like brain fog or muscle weakness  ( for more information about my way of seeing POIS symptoms grouped in clusters, see http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2027.0 (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2027.0) ).   I never had any brain fog or any other cognitive symptoms, and muscle pain and muscle weakness are not an issue for me neither – that is maybe why waiting for a niacin flush does not worth it for me.

Methylation support
Some members, in particular Kurtosis, have achieved total control over their POIS symptoms with methylation support supplements, so I got interested in methylation because of that ( I have read almost all his posts on this forum, as well as elsewhere too).  I have been reading about methylation for weeks, until I knew all I had to know about this, before trying methylation support ( I could write for hours about BH4, SAMe, L-methionine, TMG, L-methylfolate, the various cobalamine types, the methyl cycle, the methyl trap, the so-called detox reactions, the herx reactions, the various supplements used in methylation, the various SNPs involved, and the like).  Then came for me the time for testing.   I have been very, very careful.  But, well, you know, we are all different.  It didn't work at all for me. Even the smallest dose of l-methylfolate ( 1/8 of a 400mcg tablet, which means only 50mcg) would make me ill, even if taken with the appropriate amount of methylcobalamine.  I had extreme fatigue, tachycardia, and all sorts of symptoms. Like it already happened for other people sharing on CFS forums and trying methylation support,  l-methylfolate have apparently sent me in a mild to moderate hypokalemia/low potassium ( even with only 1/8 of a 400mcg tablet!).  I didn't have blood tests done, but my symptoms indeed progressively disappeared with potassium supplementation ( DO NOT take potassium without your health professional advice, it may be very detrimental to you – I took it in a very safe way, and because I am a pharmacist and know very well what doses to take and what are the signs of hypo or hyperkalemia.  Both can send you to ER, and can even cause fatal cardiac arrhythmia).  I tried l-methylfolate only 3 times, in decreasing doses, and felt ill for 2 to 3 days each time ( less the third time, because I took even less MTHF, and started potassium sooner). I sure have no interest to test further, until more is understood about methylation. TMG ( trimethylglycine, betaine), another methyl support supplement, makes me ill too, in the same manner.   Some people with ME\CFS that have been far less careful than me and have started with normal to high doses like 400mcg to 800mcg have ended up in ER with severe hypokalemia ( low potassium), and doctors just couldn't understand or believe that it has been caused by methylfolate or methylcobalamine.  So for now, I play it safe and won't take any more of these.

These tests with methylation support have for sure revealed that I have something very unusual and not normal in my metabolism of potassium or/and l-methylfolate and TMG – may be something as weird and unknown as hypokalemic periodic paralysis, or something similar. It may be an unknown channelopathy. Currently, no one knows what causes hypokalemia in some people when methyl support supplements are added.  I knew for a long time that I need to take more potassium than normal during and after sport ( I make my own electrolytes drink for that purpose), but these tests with methylation support supplements revealed that I may have a much more elaborate electrolytes problem in my body than I previously thought.  Take note that this has nothing to do with results shown in blood tests – I have all normal blood tests, and even had a refund on my business life insurance premium because I have top shape results in everything.  Those electrolytes movement disorders seem to happen inside some tissues or at the cellular level, and likely goes under the radar of current medical knowledge for the most part, except a few ones, just like familial hypokalemic or hyperkalemic periodic paralysis was suspected of being hysterical in nature before the role of potassium retained in muscle tissues has been identified in its pathophysiology ( see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channelopathy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channelopathy) if interested in knowing more about this topic).

Regarding Kurtosis success with his POIS relief, I share with him the first part of his way of achieving this success.  His first step has been about intestinal flora management with probiotics supplementation, a healthy diet, and elimination of any unhealthy food.  It is something I have started more than 15 years ago, and I can also testify that I have more energy now at 50 than I had at 30 years old.

As for step 2 that Kurtosis is describing, I find it very interesting that, even if the hypothesis and theory behind it is different, he have been using supplements that are also working for me, like antioxidants of various sources, and many of my favorite ones, like curcumin, polyphenol blends, green tea extract, and cocoa ( that I take in the form of 85% or 90% dark chocolate), as well as blueberries. He also has used omega-3, which I am very fond of.  But I do not tolerate l-methylfolate or TMG , which have been very beneficial for him,  even if I tolerate methylcobalamine very well.   However, I tolerate food that contains methylfolate, and Kurtosis has mentioned that he sees more effectiveness in eating more greens and fruits than with pills alone.  In my case, it is clear that methylfolate pills with methylcobalamine do not work at all and are detrimental.  So, this shows once again that there is no "One size fits all" solution for POIS.

Even if my current view, involving upregulation of some enzymes of the tryptophan pathways by pro-inflammatory cytokines is different from Kurtosis view based on the NO/ONOO- cycle, I take note that they both have in common the over-activation of the NMDA receptors.  In my hypothesis, the NMDA receptors overstimulation ( excitotoxicity) is the end effect of the chain of events, through the kynurenine pathways production of toxic products. In Kurtosis view, NMDA receptors over-activation is at the start of a vicious cycle.  I think both views could be fused in one, more complex view, in one continuous flow of events.  But of course, for now, this is only theoretical, and I have no scientific proof of these hypotheses.

Vasectomy
I can mention that I underwent vasectomy 12 years ago, and, like already mentioned elsewhere on this forum, it didn't change anything for my POIS ( it wasn't the goal of the procedure anyway, but I sure hoped at that time that it would have helped..... but it didn't ).
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: G-man on September 11, 2015, 08:54:08 PM
I can corroborate with Quantum that these supplements may be responsible for reducing POIS symptoms:

Curcumin
5-HTP
Green tea extract
Rosemary
Grape seed extract

In May I reported that I noticed a drastic reduction in my symptoms from taking supplements that my doctor recommended for rebuilding my gut. You may have noticed that I have been silent for a while. After about 4-6 weeks of taking the supplements daily, they began to lose their effectiveness. Since then I have been perplexed as to why that happened.

Two weeks ago I tried taking the supplements in Quantum's pEp (minus quercetin, lycopene, and potassium citrate) before an O, and it was barely effective in reducing my symptoms. Most of the supplements I take on a daily basis, so I decided to stop taking all my daily supplements. This Wednesday (two days ago) I tried taking Quantum's pEp before an O and had an 80% reduction in symptoms. I think the key here is taking the supplements only before O and when symptomatic.

Here is a list of the ingredients in the supplements I was taking for my gut; I'm thinking it is likely that the curcumin, green tea extract, rosemary, and grape seed extract contributed to the reduction in symptoms I experienced a couple months ago:

GALT Fortifier: Colostrum, Beta Glucan, Fish Protein, Okra (Dried Fruit), Lemon Balm (Leaf), Pepsin 1:10,000, Rosemary (leaf)

Vitanox: Calcium, Rosemary leaf 5:1 extract, Green Tea leaf 25:1 extract, Turmeric rhizome 25:1 extract, Grape seed 120:1 extract

Gut Flora Complex: Anise fruit essential oil, Andrographis ariel parts 10:1 extract, Phellodendron stem bark 20:1 extract, Oregano leaf essential oil

Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on September 13, 2015, 09:38:55 AM
I can corroborate with Quantum that these supplements may be responsible for reducing POIS symptoms:

Curcumin
5-HTP
Green tea extract
Rosemary
Grape seed extract

In May I reported that I noticed a drastic reduction in my symptoms from taking supplements that my doctor recommended for rebuilding my gut. You may have noticed that I have been silent for a while. After about 4-6 weeks of taking the supplements daily, they began to lose their effectiveness. Since then I have been perplexed as to why that happened.

Two weeks ago I tried taking the supplements in Quantum's pEp (minus quercetin, lycopene, and potassium citrate) before an O, and it was barely effective in reducing my symptoms. Most of the supplements I take on a daily basis, so I decided to stop taking all my daily supplements. This Wednesday (two days ago) I tried taking Quantum's pEp before an O and had an 80% reduction in symptoms. I think the key here is taking the supplements only before O and when symptomatic.

Here is a list of the ingredients in the supplements I was taking for my gut; I'm thinking it is likely that the curcumin, green tea extract, rosemary, and grape seed extract contributed to the reduction in symptoms I experienced a couple months ago:

GALT Fortifier: Colostrum, Beta Glucan, Fish Protein, Okra (Dried Fruit), Lemon Balm (Leaf), Pepsin 1:10,000, Rosemary (leaf)

Vitanox: Calcium, Rosemary leaf 5:1 extract, Green Tea leaf 25:1 extract, Turmeric rhizome 25:1 extract, Grape seed 120:1 extract

Gut Flora Complex: Anise fruit essential oil, Andrographis ariel parts 10:1 extract, Phellodendron stem bark 20:1 extract, Oregano leaf essential oil


Hi, G-man

Great to hear that you have reach a 80% reduction in symptoms with a pre-pack similar to the one I am using.

I hope it will stay effective for you.  I am using the same version of pEp, a few time a month, for about 6 months, and in my case it is still effective.  Although I have lowered my frequency of ejaculations to between 1 to 3 a month because it is easier to manage this way, I have used this pre-pack in my "testing" phase at up to once a week, and it was still effective. As you yourself have been doing, I am not taking any of the supplements of my pEp on a dally basis, only before E.  If I have some symptoms after E, even if I took my pre-pack, I use the supplements I have detailed in the first post of this thread on a as needed basis ( those include many of the supplements already contained in my pEp).

Instead of taking supplements on a daily basis in order to feel better, I rely on what I have mentioned to stay healthy and maintain my well-being and stamina:  healthy nutrition, exercise, stress and anxiety management through yoga and meditation, psychotherapy, and of course, having fun and connecting with people I appreciate.  I do add spices like curcumin and black pepper in my food, but not in the amount found in a capsule.  I also use supplements before and after sport, but not the same as for POIS.  For sports, I take essentially electrolytes ( Mg, K, Na), and antioxidants.


Let me know after a certain period of time if your pre-pack is still effective for you.

Working from this version, you may find one or two more components to get to 90% or 100% relief.  I wish you so.


Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Prancer on September 23, 2015, 08:03:44 PM
Good tips G-man and Quantum.

So far Quantum, that's what has worked the best in my case. I'm talking about stress management, good diet/nutrition (about to try the gluten-free diet like GLC mentioned), exercise, sleep, and yes, socializing with and being around the people that I really like also helps to take my mind off the symptoms and make me feel a lot better.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on September 25, 2015, 11:12:27 AM
Good tips G-man and Quantum.

So far Quantum, that's what has worked the best in my case. I'm talking about stress management, good diet/nutrition (about to try the gluten-free diet like GLC mentioned), exercise, sleep, and yes, socializing with and being around the people that I really like also helps to take my mind off the symptoms and make me feel a lot better.

Hi Prancer,

I totally agree, connecting with people we appreciate is part of my POIS prevention strategy, too.  The opposite, that is, avoiding extended contact with people I do not go along very well is also important in preserving my well-being, and keep my baseline anxiety at a low level.   It may sound like a cliché, but love, manifested as appreciation, compassion, humor, joy, forgiveness, or anything similar,  is the most potent medication for any illness, in my own experience.

As an update on my pre-pack use ( the one I have described in this thread), I have used it this week again, the exact same mix, and had a 100% success - no POIS, and I played badminton that same day and same energy as usual.  This has been my first release in a month, so that too may have been been a factor in the fact that I had no symptoms at all, but again, as I have said, severity of my symptoms are not always the same, and I do not always know why.  However, not having symptoms at all would be very, very rare before, like once in 2 years, and POIS could have been back the next time with very severe symptoms and last for days.  So, now, having repeatedly 80% to 100% relief cannot be attributed to chance only, but to my overall prevention method, including my pre-pack, diet, exercise, stress management, and contacts with loved ones.

I wish you a lot of good time with the people you appreciate, Prancer !

 


Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: VSmasher on September 26, 2015, 06:25:04 PM
After many years with POIS ( 37 years now),  I  have found things that helps me decrease the severity of my symptoms.  Then, in last November  (2014) , I have found this forum.  After many months of testing the new information I have found on this forum,  I have refined and added to my prevention and control method, and have currently a 80% to 100% rate of success.  So here is what I do, and it works for me safely.

Before describing the combination of supplements I take before release, which is a key in my higher rate of success,  I cannot left untold the following parts of my overall POIS control method, because without these, I do not think the supplements alone would bring me as much relief as they currently do:

Healthy diet:   about 15 years ago, I have started to eat a more healthy diet.  It has been an on-going process.  Now, I may have an ultra-healthy diet.  Not a cure in itself, but it sure has help reduced the fatigue and the severity of the POIS symptoms I used to have.  So, no refined sugars, no artificial flavor or color, no preservatives, no MSG, no aspartame, no suspect ingredients ( yes I read all the food labels), no fruit juices ( just whole fruits), no HFCS, no milk ( I can eat cheese, but milk causes tons of mucus production in my sinuses and in my bowels, I have replaced it by soy drink in my morning organic cereals ),.....  I have introduced organic food, healthy spices, healthy veggies, veal liver, dried fruits and nuts, organic wheat grass juice, omega-3, sources of tryptophan, lots of source water, etc... I take probiotics with Lactobacillus and Bifidus strains.  All that have taken care of any bowel inflammation problems I had, which, in my opinion, worsen POIS ( I already have written about this)  Also,  I have reduced quantities I eat by half, at least ( and did not have lost a pound).  I am not a diet-freak:  I eat meat, fish, eggs, dark chocolate, I sometime drink wine, and I do not eat tofu at all – it's tasteless!  I eat at the restaurant with friends – it's just like, I won't order French fries and will chose something healthier on the menu.

Regular exercise:   a good sweat at least two times a week ( my preference are badminton and tennis in double – the social/team aspect is a real bonus for me).  Exercise is good for the brain and for the body.   On the second day of POIS, if I have residual symptoms, they will be gone after exercise.

Abstaining from release as much as possible:   my prevention method is based on one or two ejaculations a month, and seems to also work at once a week  ( I do not think it would work for me with multiple ejaculations in the same week).  It would take me 5 to 8 weeks without ejaculation, approx., before I may have a NE, so with one or two releases a month, I usually do not have NE.  That way, I can manage at what time I will have a release ( timing is important , as you all know!), and will be able to have taken my pre-pack before. Obviously, with my wife, my 2 kids, my business, my friends, I have much to enjoy in life, and I have not much time to devote to “POIS life suspensions”, waiting to get my life back, so I have E the less oten possible. Furthermore, I am now 50 y/o, and sex has not the same importance for me now.   Of course, in a relationship for 28 years ( yes guys, it is possible, even with POIS), it is important to keep an active sexual life, and I have done so, through the  years. I have managed to develop some useful strategies ( like not every relation have to end with me having a release, etc...), and found a long time ago that magnesium and green tea were helping me with POIS, so I have managed to survive...hehe...

Psychotherapy: anxiety from any sources adds up.  My childhood has left me with a tendency for anxiety ( you can call it a general anxiety disorder), and I had to live with anxiety way before POIS.  POIS will worsen my anxiety level a lot, whatever it is at the moment.  After 8 years of psychotherapy, my regular anxiety level is now low.  I'd rather raise from 1 to 3, than raise from 7 to 10, which was very detrimental to me and to those around me.   The anxiety from POIS is not “all in my head” of course, but a part of it is/was.  I have to be careful and keep my baseline anxiety as low as possible.

Daily yoga and meditation: also help to keep my baseline anxiety level as low as possible.  Again, my main POIS symptoms, apart from fatigue and hypotension, are mostly emotional:  anxiety, Irritability, mood swings, dysphoria, social phobia, lack of motivation, low self esteem, and the like.  Daily yoga and meditation have been of great help in staying centered and calm.

Now, here is the composition of what I call my “pre-ejaculation pack”, or pEp,  which are the supplements I take before release in order to prevent my POIS symptoms. This is my current version, and every elements is there for a reason ( written in brackets ). You will notice I like low and safe doses of several things, instead of high doses of of a few things, so what I take are safe doses:

1 x Quercetin 500mg / Bromelain 750GDU (TDO inhibitor, antioxidant, anti-allergy )
1x Peppered curcumin  (curcuma longa 400 mg + piperin 5mg) (IDO inhibitor , anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, GABA agonist )
1 x 5-HTP 50mg  ( serotonin precursor )
1 x Green tea extract 200mg ( antioxidant,  raises blood pressure, potentiation of 5-HTP in the brain by inhibiting its peripheral metabolism by Dopadecarboxylase , NMDAR blocker )
2 x Magnesium 100mg / tablet (NMDAR blocker, potassium regulator)
2 x Flaxseed oil,  1000mg/caps ( NMDAR blocker, antioxidant )
1 x Lycopene  5mg (antioxidant having an affinity for the prostate )
1 x L-Theanine 250mg (NMDAR blocker )
1 x potassium citrate ( electrolytic rebalancing) ( IMPORTANT WARNING:  I personally have a tendency to low potassium , = hypokalemia. This is a personal condition, so, do not take potassium supplements without the advice of your health professional,  if you take too much of it for your own needs, it can be dangerous, and can even cause fatal cardiac arrhythmia )

If I have time to, I swallow the 11 pieces of my pack with « rosemary water », that is, a glass of water with one drop of rosemary essential oil in it ( rosmarinic acid act as an IDO inhibitor, and also is a GABA agonist ).

For my pre-pack to be effective, I have to take it at least 15 minutes before release, and best if 30 to 60 minutes before.  But not always possible, in a relationship... when things happen spontaneously, I take my pEp just at the beginning, and since I have become, with time, better than a taoist monk at delaying release, it is no big deal for me to make it last 15 to 20 minutes, so the active ingredients have time to make it to my blood stream and everywhere in my body.  Obviously, since there is many different supplements in my pEp, I always have one pack prepared in advance at my bedside, along with some water.  If I am not disciplined and take it after release, even if only 2 to 10 minutes after, the prevention and control is far less effective  ( better than nothing, but not impressive and very disappointing when I have known better relief).


Now, a short explanation about why I have chosen these particular supplements.

Of course, it is tailored to my own symptoms.  For example, I have low blood pressure as one of my main symptoms, so green tea extract helps with that.
 
Blocking the NMDA receptors is good to lower anxiety level and for other psychological symptoms, so I have put a few in there  ( Mg have been in fact the first effective tool I have found against my POIS , 15 to 20 years ago).  NMDA receptors blockers in general seems to be good for me.  As a side note, taurine is, among tother things, a NMDA receptors blocker, and I read some members had good results with it ( I think about B_jim, in particular).  It has a good effect for me too, as taurine helps with anxiety, but I have it in powder, so I did not include it in my pEp for practical reasons.  I don't know if the effectiveness of taurine, magnesium, L-theanine, zinc, or the lignam in flaxseed oil, is related to their NMDA receptor blocking properties, but they are all beneficial for my POIS.  Anyway, NMDAR blockers are known for their neuroprotective properties against excitototicity, and I believe there is excitotoxicity involved in POIS pathophysiology ( in particular, I think, from quinolinic acid, as I have mentionned before).   I have read that some POIS sufferers had good results with tramadol, a potent NMDAR blocker, but I didn't try it, I have chosen not to treat myself with prescription drugs, since I can have good results with natural products and OTC products.

GABA agonists are good for anxiety, so the rosmarinic acid in rosemary, turmeric and other spices and  herbs like lemon balm, marjorem, basilic, oregano, are good for me

IDO and TDO inhibitors are good to protect the brain from the change in tryptophan metabolic pathways that I think may be in cause in POIS.  It works best for me if I use at least one IDO inhibitor with one TDO inhibitor, to block both metabolic ways by which kynurenine is produced ( this may be not the exact scientific reason why TDO inhibitors and IDO inhibitors works for my POIS, but what is sure is that they do help.  However, the kynurenine pathways implication has been scientifically proven in other illnesses, like depression, Huntington disease, and in some auto-immune diseases, so this is not folklore )

Serotonin is good for calm, well-being, socialization, and it also helps raise blood pressure. So 5-HTP, a direct serotonin precursor,  is good for me, in low dose.

Antioxidants are useful in blocking the formation of pro-inflamatory cytokines, from the hypersensitivity/allergy reactions I think are part of POIS physiopathology ( see http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1988.msg15559#msg15559 for more details about this) .  So, my hypothesis is that by using a combination of various antioxidants, it blocks many different paths of production of those cytokines, and reduce the "cytokine storm" of the hypersensitivity reactions following release.  Antioxidants all have some anti-inflammatory properties.  By blocking different parts of the auto-immune reaction, they have specific effects.  Some are known, like the known postive effects of lycopene on prostate inflammation, or the known anti-allergic prorperties of quercetin and bromelain.  In my own experience, anti-oxidants have a positive effect on my energy level, and on my overall health.




My POIS severity is not always the same, and I do not know why.  Sometime, when POIS is harsher, my pre-pack is not enough to get 100% prevention and relief ( that is why I say that I have from 80% to 100% relief with my method).  If there are some POIS symptoms even if I have taken my pre-pack , I will take some other supplements every 3 to 4 hours as needed.  I monitor my blood pressure, and I also have ways to estimate my level of fatigue and level of anxiety and irritability, so I can very accurately determine how relieved I am.

For low blood pressure: Currently, I have no more low blood pressure problems if I take my pre-pack correctly.  However, If I notice after release that my BP is becoming borderline low ( which is for me, something like 107/68), I take some rosemary or some green tea extract, or sometime another 25mg of 5-HTP with some green tea extract.  Having no more hypotension and extreme fatigue is in itself a great, great success for me in POIS control, and can be accounted as a 50% relief at least.  Hypotension has been causing me a loooooot of fatigue, lightheadness, intolerance to exercise, cold sweat, depressive feelings,  sense of powerlessness, trouble going through my day at work, and so on ….

For residual fatigue : even if I have no hypotension ( low blood pressure), I can sometime feel a certain level of fatigue, even if I have taken my pEp (pre-pack). I then take one or two of the following, at moderate dose, which are essentially antioxidants and or IDO or TDO inhibitors:  ginkgo biloba, vitamin C, grape seed extract, milk thistle,  Vitalux\AREDS blend of antioxydants (cheap and easily found in pharmacies as they are used as eye vitamins, against age-related macular degeneration - ARMD ),  lycopene, green tea extract, Moducare, peppered turmeric, or other good antioxidants blend, like SuperVision, from Webber Naturals.

For residual anxiety, irritability, and other emotional symptoms:   I will add some omega-3, some flaxseed oil, some l-theanine, some other magnesium, or other NMDAR antagonists, like taurine and  zinc .   If it is near bedtime, I can use Relora or Passionflower, but not during the day, they cause me too much drowsiness.

My POIS used to last 2 to 3 days.  Now, with my current method of prevention and control,  I sometime have no POIS at all.  Sometime I have to take some supplements 1 or 2 hours after release. and sometime I may have to take a few supplements again up to 8 to 12 hours after release, when the effect of my pre-pack seems to fade away a bit, But rarely now do I need to take some supplements the day after. 

I know that what works for me won't necessarily works for another one.  But I hope the success I have with these supplements and this overall method will helps inspire and motivate others to build a similar overall approach for themselves.  Take note that it took me quite some time, I didn't get to 80% -100% success quickly.  Some of the elements of my pre-pack are known beneficial to me for over 10 to 15 years, like magnesium, green tea extract and rosemary essential oil.  Some other are more recent, and some came only since I have found this forum.  The idea is that I have found some core components that I know for sure are beneficial for me, then I have kept them at the same low to moderate dosage, and slowly have added other supplements one by one, not changing everything each time, or I will have never succeeded in knowing what works or not for me.  I have a file of every pre-pack versions I have used in the last year, what time before release I have taken it, and what results I got  ( Blood pressure monitoring, symptoms after 1 hour, after 2 hours, after 4 hours, ….)  so it has helped me keep a rational and scientific approach in developing my pre-pack. 

Considering the nature of this post, I have to add this disclaimer: you are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259

Thank you

Quantum


Please send me a link to the study that shows curcumin is a GABA agonist...

Thank you

Vag
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on September 26, 2015, 10:00:30 PM
Please send me a link to the study that shows curcumin is a GABA agonist...

Thank you

V

Hi VSmasher,

I think you refer to these parts of my post :

« 1x Peppered curcumin  (curcuma longa 400 mg + piperin 5mg) (IDO inhibitor , anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, GABA agonist ) »

and

« GABA agonists are good for anxiety, so the rosmarinic acid in rosemary, turmeric and other spices and  herbs like lemon balm, marjoram, basil, oregano, are good for me »

You are right, V, curcumin has not been shown to have – or not – an effect on the GABAergic system – the mechanism of its anxiolytic properties are not clearly known yet.  I have mistakenly put curcuma/turmeric in my list of spices containing rosmarinic acid, sorry for that, as curcuma is not a source of rosmarinic acid ( but all the other spices in my list are).  Rosmarinic acid has gabaergic properties, as it inhibits an enzyme that metabolizing GABA ( for those interested by the details, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosmarinic_acid#Biochemical_activities (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosmarinic_acid#Biochemical_activities) .  ) 

However, I was right about the anxiolytic properties of Curcumin, even if the mechanism is not known yet.
For some studies trying to find the mechanism of curcuma anxiolytic properties, see :
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24721902 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24721902)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20633542 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20633542)
http://www.ajbrui.net/ojs/index.php/ajbr/article/view/337 (http://www.ajbrui.net/ojs/index.php/ajbr/article/view/337)

The prime reason I have chosen to include curcumin in my prevention pre-pack was for its IDO inhibitor properties.  The anxiolytic effect is also good for me, too.  I will correct my original post from
« 1x Peppered curcumin  (curcuma longa 400 mg + piperin 5mg) (IDO inhibitor , anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, GABA agonist ) »
to
« 1x Peppered curcumin  (curcuma longa 400 mg + piperin 5mg) (IDO inhibitor , anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, anxiolytic ) » ,
and will remove turmeric from the spices list containing rosmarinic acid.

I have no proof that it is the IDO inhibitor properties of curcumin and rosmarinic acid that are really beneficial for my POIS.  The inhibition of the kynurenine pathways by inhibiting IDO and TDO has been studied and proven useful in other conditions.  However, there is not a lot of research done on POIS, the only thing I can be sure of is my empirical success using the method described in the first post of this thread, and part of this success came with the use of IDO and TDO inhibitors, among other things.

Thanks, V, for pointing this out to me.  I try to keep my posts as scientifically accurate as possible - I think it is important if we want to make valuable steps toward solving the POIS puzzle.


 
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: G-man on October 03, 2015, 11:52:33 PM
Quantum,
What are your thoughts about the cause of POIS being some kind of channelopathy?
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on October 04, 2015, 09:08:08 AM
Quantum,
What are your thoughts about the cause of POIS being some kind of channelopathy?

Hi G-man,

Channelopathies is a relatively new field of research, and POIS is not weel known neither, so it is very hard to say.  However, I was very interested about hypokaliemic periodic paralysis when I first heard about it (  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypokalemic_periodic_paralysis ), because there are some similarities with POIS, in particular the sudden onset, and then the spontaneous recovery after a certain time, from a few hours to a few days.  But it took many years to find out the cause of HPP, which was though to be hysterical in nature before the potassium channel problem has been discovered.

My prevention method relies more on controlling my symptoms, and also controlling the hypersensitivity/allergy reactions, and neurotoxicity I think are involved in the pathophysiology of POIS.  To the best of my current knowledge, there seems to be pro-inflammatory cytokines productions, causing many symptoms, and in particular, kynurenine toxic products affecting the brain, and that is why I think TDO and IDO inhibitors are effective in my case ( for those who would like more details about this last part, I have written about it in details elsewhere on this forum, like at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1988.msg15559#msg15559 ).

I don't know if there is a thread yet about channelopathies and POIS, but it could be interesting to start one if you have found interesting information, G-man.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: G-man on October 04, 2015, 04:42:37 PM
I touched on channelopathies briefly here, but did not draw any parallels with POIS
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1457.0

You mention pro-inflammatory cytokine production being a likely cause of our symptoms. I'm curious to find out what these cytokines are targeting in our body and what is triggering their production. I was wondering if these cytokines are possibly targeting an ion channel or one of their associated proteins. Or if the cytokines could be targeting a specific hormone, neurotransmitter, or their respective receptors.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on October 23, 2015, 12:52:49 PM
I have mentioned in my initial post in this thread that there is a healthy diet part in my method of prevention and control of my POIS.  I have started this many years ago, and it is still on going.  Recently, I have added carrageenan to my "banned" list of food ingredients.  I have discovered lately that this thickening agent may cause some inflammation and problems in the gastrointestinal tract ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrageenan#Health_research )

I have noticed it was part of the ingredients of the organic soy beverage I have been using every day for years ( the SoNice brand).  So, as part of my constant optimization "program", I have switched to another organic soy beverage brand ( Natur-a) that is not using carrageenan, but rather the 100% safe xanthan gum as a thickening agent. It tastes as good as the previous one - the vanilla one is my favorite with cereals, and chocolate is great to simply drink :) 

I have written an e-mail to the company producing the soy beverage I used to buy.  They answered that, even if carrageenan is approved by the current health authorities, they are aware that people who take their health seriously prefer formulas without this ingredients, so they intend to develop a new formula without it, in the future.  The reply I have received also brought to my attention that their new almond beverage line has no carrageenan in it  ( a proof that I wasn't the first to write to them about carrageenan, since organic soy beverage buyers are usually very health conscious).

There is no clear danger proven yet from carrageenan, but my decision-making criteria in healthy food is clear: if there is a safe alternative, better avoid the dubious ingredient.  As the saying goes, there is no smoke without fire  (In French, we say "Il n'y a pas de fumée sans feu" )

This is also interesting to note that a food being organic do not automatically means that it is perfect for your health. You still have to read the label and look thoroughly to all of the ingredients in it. 

Also, I have chosen to change my morning organic cereals for a gluten free product from the same organic brand I have been buying from for years.  I never had any noticeable symptoms from gluten-containing food, and I am not going into a total gluten-free diet, but I felt like it would be a good move to reduce my daily gluten intake, and my main source of it was my morning cereals.  It could be a little additional notch at reducing overall inflammatory reactions in my body.   And, since I tend to eat a lot of what works for me, and stick with it, I have to make sure that what I include in my daily safe list is really healthy for me.

It has been only a few weeks since I have made these changes, and they are not major changes.  I feel as good as lately  and may feel the change only in the long run.  One thing is sure, it cannot be harmful to have included healthier food than before in my daily diet. 


Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on November 13, 2015, 06:42:27 PM
I have just found out that quercetin has been proven efficient in reducing chronic prostatitis symptoms  ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10604689 ).  I didn't know it has an affinity for the prostate. I have included it in my pre-E pack because of its good effect on reducing allergy symptoms and inflammation in general.  It is good news that it also has some specificity for the prostate, it is another good reason for it to be effective against POIS symptoms.

The preparation of quercetin I use contains bromelain, which enhance the absorption of quercetin.  The bioavailability of quercetin is low, which means that, naturally, only a small fraction of the ingested dose will make it into your blood flow.  With bromelain, the absorbed fraction is greater.   it is for the same reason that the piperin of black pepper is used with turmeric in order to boost curcumin absorption.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on January 30, 2016, 10:22:56 PM
Considering the new notions I have learned about lately, I have updated the "Daily yoga and meditation" part of my original post in this thread as follows:

( P.S. 2016-01:  after reading about the Polyvagal Theory, about Heart Rate Variability ( HRV ), and also about the Cholinergic Anti-inflammatory Pathway, it has become clear to me that yoga and meditation are also a good way to reduce inflammation because they raise the vagal nerve activity, which in turn reduces the inflammation reactions in the body through the Cholinergic Anti-inflammatory Pathway, involving the spleen and the immune cells in it - see http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2200.msg17995#msg17995 for details.  Other ways to raise Heart Rate Variability, like spending time with loved ones, is also as good ! )
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on April 09, 2016, 08:31:00 PM
Hi everyone, just a short update.  After 16 months, my pre-pack still brings me relief on a consistent basis.  Of course, I am not cured of POIS, but I didn't have a full blast POIS for 16 months, now.  The worst since December 2014 is maybe 20%, which is nothing compare to what I have been through in the 36 years before that !  And, it happens quite often that I have no symptoms at all :)

Also, I am conscious that I am getting older, at 51, so logically, POIS should take a heavier toll on me now.  I am still limiting my number of release, but in a relationship, total abstinence is not an option.  So, I am very happy now to be able to have 2 to 4 releases a month without becoming dysfunctional for a few days each time.



Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on August 19, 2016, 01:14:53 PM
I have mentioned that regular exercise is good for me and part of my prevention method.

However, over-exercise can be detrimental.  Last week, I took my pre-pack, in the evening, before ejaculation, as usual.  I have done a two hours bicycle ride, earlier that day, and it was a hot and humid day.  After sex, I was OK.  The morning after, I was still ok, but some fatigue, maybe a 10% POIS, which is not unusual, as I do not always have a 100% relief with my method ( even if I have often a 100% relief, but usually not 100% when ejaculation following significant physical exercise ). 

Then, that later that following day, I had a tennis match, two hours in the sun, hot and humid, heavy summer weather ( that was a second 2 hours of exercise in two consecutive days, with an ejaculation in the evening between the two).  When I came back home, I was a little too much tired.  Then, at 22h30, a slight problematic situation occurred with one of our children, a problem that would have called for a calm and steady father, and my reaction have been one of an irritated, frustrated guy, typical of my POIS days... so, that was not a full blast POIS attack, but it has been maybe a year since the last time I had that kind of over-emotional, inappropriate reaction , which is typical of the kind of mood swings and personality change I have under uncontrolled POIS.

This small episode ended up with me going to sleep in a bad mood, and my spouse not happy at all about what happened, but I took some more of my anti-POIS supplements, and in the morning I was ok... but had to live with the consequences on my family life of my bad emotional reaction.  This was a short POIS event, but it reminded me of so many awful memories, when my POIS was like that for two to three days....that was very hard on my relationship and family life.

So from now on,  I will continue to stick to my "rest day" between sports activities, meaning never 2 sport activities on two consecutive days.  My recovery from sport is still slow, and if I get too tired, I am not protected enough by my pre-pack, if an ejaculation occurs. Also, I will stay at two, or maximum 3  times of sport a week, but mostly 2 times a week, with 1h30 to 2h each time on average ( mostly badminton and tennis).

What happened is that I was on summer vacation, and had around 3 sport activities a week, and adding one ejaculation to that was too much for my current level of control.  That's fine tuning, by knowing my personal limits and personal POIS triggers or "facilitators".

Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on September 15, 2016, 05:00:41 PM
Here is my updated "Exercise" section, as modified in the original post of this thread:

Regular exercise:   a good sweat two times a week ( my preference are badminton and tennis in double – the social/team aspect is a real bonus for me).  Exercise is good for the brain and for the body.   On the second day of POIS, if I have residual symptoms, they will be gone after exercise.  I never work out/exercise two days in a row, because I recover very slowly, and ejaculation plus two times of sport, within 2 days, is too much for me to take, and I may have 30 to 40% POIS symptoms relapse because I got too tired, and that's way too much for my new standards of emotional quality of life.  If I get 20% symptoms the day following ejaculation,I avoid exercising that day, and wait for another day.  With 90% to 100% relief, no problem to exercise that day or the day after. 
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on September 24, 2016, 11:30:50 AM
For those who would have noticed on the original post stating the compostition of my pre-pack, I have changed the lycopene supplement I use.  The 5 mg one I used to take is discontinued, so I have switch to Jamieson's lycopene 10mg tablets.  I have no problem tolerating lycopene, so the change to 5mg to 10mg has not been a problem.  ( as mentioned, the original post in this thread have been updated accordingly) .
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: romies on October 17, 2016, 11:15:33 AM
Quantum,

Many thanks for your writing on the role of mast cell activation and IDO/TDO in POIS. I learned about your regimen from nightingale, and have got very good results. By trial and error, I am on a simplified pre-pack

Pre-pack
Celebrex (200mg)
Quercetin 800mg / Bromelain 165mg (Now Foods)
Peppered curcumin 500mg /BioPerine 5mg

After pack (before sleep)
5-HTP 100mg (10-hr time-released tablet, Natrol)
Magnesium Citrate 250mg
ZMA (Zinc Monno-L-mehionine 20mg, Magnesium asparatate 300mg)

As-needed
NAC (600mg, with Selenium 25mcg, Molybdenum 50mcg)

Daily supplement
Monring:
Methylguard (methylfolate 0.4mg; methylcobalamin 0.4mg; Trimethylglycine 600mg)
Vitamin D (4000-5000IU)

My symptoms (pretty severe from T0 to T+48hr hrs) are completely gone with these supplements.

Updated to include dosage and other supplement I take on a daily basis.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: romies on October 17, 2016, 11:20:41 AM
Exercise-induced fatigue

I have similar symptoms to what Quantum describes after exertion (e.g. weight lifting, 2-hr sessions of tennis). I suspected some link to mast cell activation and cortisol-triggered TDO upregulation, so I tested the following pack before starting exercise (30mins before), and it works very well. no more brain fogs in T+24hrs period.

Celebrex 200mg
Quercetin 500mg / Bromelain
Peppered curcumin

I use celebrex as opposed to ibuprofen, because celebrex does not block muscle repair according to recent research.

I use celebrex on an as-needed basis to minimize cardiovascular side-effects.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on October 17, 2016, 10:03:26 PM
Quantum,

Many thanks for your writing on the role of mast cell activation and IDO/TDO in POIS. I learned about your regimen from nightingale, and have got very good results. By trial and error, I am on a simplified pre-pack

Celebrex
Quercetin 500mg / Bromelain
Peppered curcumin 
5-HTP 50mg 

After pack
Magnesium (this one can be taken after an O)
Zinc (in the form of ZMA)

My symptoms in the T+48hr hrs are completely under control with these supplements.


Hi Romies, and welcome to the forum.

Thanks for registering and sharing your results, and thanks for your positive comments about my hypothesis on the role of mast cells and IDO/TDO upregulating in POIS.    I am glad that it has helped you get relief for your symptoms.   

Your simplified pre-pack is interesting:  a TDO inhibitor, a IDO inhibitor, and a COX-2 inhibitor, and all three have anti-inflammatory properties ( and the fourth also, considering the bromelain in the quercetin preparation ).  If you have added 5-HTP, I suppose you may also have some emotional symptoms when in POIS, or some hypotension. 

Magnesium is very helpful for me too, but never tried ZMA  ( I sometime take zinc, but tends to give me nausea a lot, so I have not included it in my pre-pack)


If you agree to, you can answer the following questions, which can be of help to better document your results:

You mention brain fog, and fatigue.  Do you also have emotional symptoms like anxiety, irritability, and mood swings ?   Do you have other major symptoms ?

Your symptoms are now down to a 48 hours duration with this pre-pack and were lasting longer before, or they are totally gone, and where lasting 48 hours before ?


You are right about the potential cardio-vascular effects of Celebrex ( celecoxib).  That is why it is on prescription only, here, in Canada, and elsewhere too.


Considering your exercise induced fatigue, similar to mine, and your good results with TDO/IDO inhibitors, I will add you in my POIS types chart as a reference member in the same type as myself and G-man ( see http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448 ). 
 
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: romies on October 18, 2016, 12:53:34 PM
Quantum,

Thank you for your kind words. I learned a lot from your posts. 
Your simplified pre-pack is interesting:  a TDO inhibitor, a IDO inhibitor, and a COX-2 inhibitor, and all three have anti-inflammatory properties ( and the fourth also, considering the bromelain in the quercetin preparation ).  If you have added 5-HTP, I suppose you may also have some emotional symptoms when in POIS, or some hypotension. 
5-htp gives me noticeable energy within the 48hrs after an O. I found as long as I have curcumin+quercetin+celebrex, even if I forgot taking 5-htp, I can gain energy back with a 5-htp tablet within 1 hr. Without curcumin/quercetin/celebrex, 5-HTP helps much less. I think this support your hypothesis of tryptophan depletion and excessive kynurenic acid

5-htp mostly solve the depressive mood issue during POIS period. and lack of energy.

I take the 10hr time-released 5-htp, since its half life is only 2.2-7.4 hrs. also to minimize the risk of cardio-fibrosis at high doses.

Magnesium is very helpful for me too, but never tried ZMA  ( I sometime take zinc, but tends to give me nausea a lot, so I have not included it in my pre-pack)
ZMA is strictly before sleep with a nearly empty stomach. Normal dosage is 3 cap for men, but I usually just take 1 cap. I double the dose after an O to 2 caps. Zinc raises T-levels and modulate NMDR receptors (mostly inhibitory) as well. see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21504727

You mention brain fog, and fatigue.  Do you also have emotional symptoms like anxiety, irritability, and mood swings ?   Do you have other major symptoms ?
I have depressive moods, irritability, and anxiety during POIS period. and flu-like sore throat symptoms (resolved with NAC supplements). I have documented the evolution of my regimens over nakedscientist forum with the same id a few years ago, a bit similar to Kurtosis' symptoms. 

I respond to Methyl-folate and NADH quite well (I am an A1298C homozygote). But they only solve 40-50% of my POIS symptoms, not as reliable as curcumin/quercetin/celebrex combo.

I also respond to Claritin-D 24hrs. I used to take it after an O, but it is really the pseudoephedrine masking the cognitive/mood POIS symptoms for me. It only works for about 24 hrs and then I would be exhausted. Claritin-D 12 hrs does not work as well. Regular Claritin shows little effect.

Your symptoms are now down to a 48 hours duration with this pre-pack and were lasting longer before, or they are totally gone, and where lasting 48 hours before ?
Completely gone now. They used to last at least 48 hrs. If i have multiple-O in one night, it has lasted as long as 5-7 days before.

You are right about the potential cardio-vascular effects of Celebrex ( celecoxib).  That is why it is on prescription only, here, in Canada, and elsewhere too.
Any ibuprofen extended release OTC in North America? I might give that a try. Celebrex has been shown as a mast-cell stabilizer. I am not aware of ibuprofen has shown that effect in particular.

Quercetin moderately inhibits CYP2C8, CPY2C9, CYP2D6, CYp3A4
Curcumin + bioperine moderately inhibits CYP2D6, CYP1A2 CYP3A4
    Curcumin is also a dose-dependent MOAI (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18766332), but our dosage is far lower than the ones used in the research.

So I assume Quercetin+Curcumin will make the half life of Celebrex even longer.

Considering your exercise induced fatigue, similar to mine, and your good results with TDO/IDO inhibitors, I will add you in my POIS types chart as a reference member in the same type as myself and G-man ( see http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.msg19448#msg19448 ).
Looks good. Thanks for all the work in organizing the different types.

My exercise induced fatigue/brain fog used to be really bad, that even a strong cup of coffee cannot wake me up from the dazed state within the T+24 hr period. But with same pre-pack, I was really amazed that I did not feel anything cognitive hangover from my workout the day after.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: fsol on November 21, 2016, 01:11:39 AM
I'm adding to this post to let you know about my experiences with Quantum's pre pack.

I've been using the pre pack 4 times now and I have positive results as well. The 80% relief is accurate in my case. Until now I've been taking a daily dose + pre pack consisting of b1, b6, b12, magnesium, zinc and gingko biloba but Quantum's pre pack is for me more effective. Plus, I don't have to take it on a daily basis.

So far, the only thing I'm going to change in the pack, is to switch the green tea extract for caffeine free green tea extract, as I'm a light sleeper and feel that the caffeine affects my sleep. It's still early in the testing and more changes could come, but for now this pack seems to work very well.

This is the closest I've come to being POIS free after O, and I'm very happy to be feeling this good. I feel that the last 20% might come down to things like a healthy diet, meditation, exercise and a general balance and well being of the mind. These things are important to work on as well.

Thank you Quantum for your testing, advice and hard work on this pre pack!


Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on November 21, 2016, 10:03:44 AM
Thanks you very much, fsol, for this feedback, and for your kind words.   I am very happy for you that you have achieved a higher level of relief with my pre-pack method :)

I am happy to see that G-man, romies and you have as good results as I have with this pre-pack method, so it shows that it is a valuable approach and was not just "my thing".

I wish you to find the necessary adjustments that will bring you an even higher level of relief.  Keep us updated on your progress, and have a nice POIS-free day !


(p.s.:  I will include you as a reference member in my POIS Types Chart for the Pre-pack type /  IDO/TDO/NMDAr blockers+ anti-oxidants type )
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: mellivora on November 22, 2016, 06:25:52 PM
I've just been re-reading this thread and am interested in trying your pre-pack Quantum. I'm curious to know if anyone has tried Quantum's pre-pack WITHOUT noticeable effects.

(Niacin didn't do anything for my symptoms either Quantum. I agree meditation could be effective if the vagus nerve is involved. Regardless, I found it beneficial generally in life though have not maintained a routine for a while. Its a good reminder to get back to it.

Thanks for sharing as always
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on November 22, 2016, 10:47:03 PM
Thanks for your comments, Mellivora.  Great to hear a bit from you, too.

I am not sure that, to date, that many have tried my pre-pack method,maybe because it requires 9 to 10 different products, so it is not simple.  Unless someone experiments and develop is own simplified version, like romies have done.   

If you try this pre-pack method, be sure to let us know, whatever the results you get.


Regular meditation, yes, is great for many aspect of health and quality of life, as proven by many scientific studies.  It is good for stress, for blood pressure, for anxiety, for sport performance, for learning, and so on.  Even as little as 5 to 10 mins every day is ok.  It takes about 4 to 6 weeks before noticing cumulative benefits.   Skipping a day form time to time is no worry, but it has to be fairly regular to keep the ball rolling - it is like a momentum you build.  In fact, it does build up a theta-alpha default resonance in the brain, and each day, when meditating, you kind of recharge, reinforce this calmness pattern in your neuronal circuits.
 
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on May 10, 2017, 10:26:15 AM
Hi everyone, just a short update to let you know that my pre-pack is still effective for me after more than 2 years :)

I still have the same composition.  It happens that, when I am on a "tight schedule" and I really need to avoid any symptoms, that I add up a few other things to my pre-pack, like Naprosyn  ( a nsaid), but I avoid it as much as possible an stick to my usual pre-pack.


Because of my pre-pack being efficient, I could say now that I have more symptoms when I have a NE ( before my pre-pack, the symptoms after a NE were relatively lower than after "waking state" release), because I cannot take anything in advance for it.  It doesn't happen very often, but whenever it happens, I take my pack as soon as I can, when I become aware of the situation ( I always have a bottle by my bedside with a complete "pre-pack" in it, prepared in advance ).  I try to manage with precision the time between my releases so that I don't have to go through a NE, but my body and mind do not always collaborate and sometime a NE occurs before my "due date".   Well, that's annoying, but it is way better than what I had to go through for most of my life, with decades where I was vulnerable to full POIS anytime !
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: romies on July 24, 2017, 11:04:01 AM
I still have the same composition.  It happens that, when I am on a "tight schedule" and I really need to avoid any symptoms, that I add up a few other things to my pre-pack, like Naprosyn  ( a nsaid), but I avoid it as much as possible an stick to my usual pre-pack.


Because of my pre-pack being efficient, I could say now that I have more symptoms when I have a NE ( before my pre-pack, the symptoms after a NE were relatively lower than after "waking state" release), because I cannot take anything in advance for it.  It doesn't happen very often, but whenever it happens, I take my pack as soon as I can, when I become aware of the situation ( I always have a bottle by my bedside with a complete "pre-pack" in it, prepared in advance ).  I try to manage with precision the time between my releases so that I don't have to go through a NE, but my body and mind do not always collaborate and sometime a NE occurs before my "due date".   Well, that's annoying, but it is way better than what I had to go through for most of my life, with decades where I was vulnerable to full POIS anytime !

In addition to having the pre-pack at the night stand and taking it upon waking after a NE,  I now have a single-tablet generic Claritin-D 24 hrs upon waking in the morning, which reduce the cognitive/emotional symptoms to less than 10%.
    Claritin-D 24 hrs is the most reliable mild 24-hr timed-release of pseudoephedrine, that boosts my nor-epinephrine levels, and allow me to function after an NE.

Most of time, I only need a single Claritin-D dose after NE. If the symptoms persist on the 2nd day (rarely happens), I take a 2nd dose.

I have tried Claritin-D 12 hrs and many other OTC meds containing pseudoephedrine, but none provides the smooth and lasting effect like Claritin-D 24hrs. You may also want to experimenting with different brands. I found even for the 24-hr formulation, there is perceivable difference in how the med is released overtime.

I don't recommend taking pseudoephedrine often. It has many side effects, such as increasing blood pressure.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: rainman on October 08, 2017, 08:28:14 PM
Quantum, thank you for your contributions to this forum and to all of the POIS sufferers.

Just to give a little background about myself, and to share some of the similarities I see between us.

I am in my late 30's. I have had POIS symptoms probably for the last 10-15 years, but because the symptoms were getting worse in the last few years. It led me to research what my problem was, and I found this forum.

My biggest symptoms are a combination of the physical and emotional. On the physical side, I would get sinus headaches and post-nasal drip, which I could address with advil cold and sinus. But, the bigger challenge for me has been the brain fog, and the emotional/depressive symptoms.

In my teenage years and early 20's, I also dealt with Social/General Anxiety issues. I never got professional help for that. I found love in my early 20's (got married), and that pretty much addressed any anxiety issues I had. But, POIS related symptoms were still a challenge, as it can completely change your current perspective on life. Everything can be going great, but you start looking for issues which really don't exist. To add, because I had difficulty creating relationships with the opposite sex when I was younger, I feel like I probably resorted more to masturbation. I dont think it was extreme, probably just a daily routine. Not sure if that has caused me to have more issues or not as I grow older.

Here is where I am at right now. I am running a fairly successful business, and a lot people depend on me to perform. In addition to that, I don't want to put myself in a position that I can also hurt my wife when I have an episode. In the last 1 to 2 years, my solution has been to completely abstain from having any releases (I have my wife's support here). The problem I have though, are the Nocturnal Emissions that are out of my control. I have at least 1 every few months.

I have already purchased all of the supplements in your PRE-PACK. Here is my question. Because my problem right now is due to NE's or any type of premature ejaculation. Is it an option to take your PRE-PACK on a daily basis, that if an NE does occur, I am already covered for the day?

Thank you,
Rainman



Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on October 08, 2017, 11:38:08 PM
Hi Rainman,

Thanks for your good words about my contributions here.

About taking the pre-pack every day, it was not what I had in mind, because the body tends to develop tolerance to any supplement over time, so I wanted to keep the effect "fresh" when needed. 

My way to deal with NE is to have a pre-pack always ready, with water, at my bedside, so as soon as I realize I had a NE, I take my pre-pack.  It still help a lot with POIS, even if a little bit less than when I have the possibility to take my pre-pack 30 minutes before release.  However, I always had less symptoms following a NE than a "waking state" release, so all in all, taking my pre-pack just after a NE is almost as efficient as taking it before a waking state release.

I usually wake up right after a NE, so it allows me to take my pre-pack.  If I realize it only later, upon awakening, I take my pre-pack anyway, it is always better than not taking it ( even 2 to 3 hours after, I can have as much as 50% relief).  My POIS has a onset daily of a few hours, so it is never too late to take my pre-pack, but it is definitively more efficient when taken before release.


However, I do take omega-3 almost every day. You could try a hybrid approach and take some supplements everyday, but not all of them.  This will keep some edge for when really needed.

Thanks for joining the forum, and for sharing your POIS story.  If you have any question about how I use my pre-pack, don't hesitate to ask. 

Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: rainman on October 08, 2017, 11:58:04 PM
Quantum,

Thank you for the advice.

Since I started taking your PRE-PACK as a daily supplement routine for the last week or so. I do feel much more energized. I was not taking any other supplements prior to this. So whatever is giving me that boost, I don't mind continuing with it.

If I do go with a trimmed down version of your PRE-PACK for a daily routine. What would you recommend that I keep taking daily? The rest I would just reserve post-NE release.

One more question. Let's say you take your PRE-PACK in the morning. But, you have a release 5 hours later. Is the affect just as good as taking it 1 hour prior to release?

Thanks,
Rainman
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on October 09, 2017, 09:45:50 PM
Hi Rainman,

I cannot tell you what you should take or not ( it is against forum rules), as it is a personal choice, but I can share what I would do for myself.

First, your question made me realized that I didn"t mentioned the slight change I have done to my pre-pack a few months ago.  I have reduced magnesium to 1 tablet instead of 2 ( to avoid any chance to have loose stool the following day), and have "replaced" it by a capsule of Omega-3 ( 600mg EPA, 300mg DHA).  I have changed my post at the beginning of this thread to reflect this small change.  Like I said, I was taking Omega-3 fatty acids quite regularly, and often after release when some residual symptoms, but decided to take it before, and made it a part of my pre-pack.

My pre-pack is now:

1 x Quercetin 500mg / Bromelain 750GDU (TDO inhibitor, antioxidant, anti-allergy, mast cells stabilizer )
1x Peppered curcumin  (curcuma longa 400 mg + piperin 5mg) (IDO inhibitor , anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, mast cells stabilizer, anxiolytic )
1 x 5-HTP 50mg  ( serotonin precursor )
1 x Green tea extract 200mg ( antioxidant,  raises blood pressure, potentiation of 5-HTP in the brain by inhibiting its peripheral metabolism by Dopadecarboxylase , NMDAR blocker, mast cells stabilizer [EGCG] )
1 x Magnesium 100mg / tablet (NMDAR blocker, potassium regulator)
2 x Flaxseed oil,  1000mg/caps ( NMDAR blocker, antioxidant )
1 x Omega-3 triple concentration, 600 mg EPA/ 300 mg DHA ( emotional support/anxiolytic, ant-inflammatory effect )
1 x Lycopene  10mg (antioxidant having an affinity for the prostate )
1 x L-Theanine 250mg (NMDAR blocker, and supposed mast cells stabilizer )
1 x potassium citrate ( electrolytic rebalancing) ( IMPORTANT WARNING for all members:  I personally have a tendency to low potassium , = hypokalemia. This is a personal condition, so, do not take potassium supplements without the advice of your health professional,  if you take too much of it for your own needs, it can be dangerous, and can even cause fatal cardiac arrhythmia if you take too much,  This potassium intake may be related to a very personal condition, so I am not sure at all that it is needed for others)

All this taken, like mentonned in my first post, with 2 drops of rosemary essential oil, when the situation can allow me to do so, like for a planned release ( rosmarinic acid act as an IDO inhibitor, and also has gaba-enhancing properties through GABA transaminase inhibition, and rosemary also contains luteolin, a mast cells stabilizer ).

So, that being said, if I was to take a part of this daily, I would go with Omega-3, flaxseed oil, and peppered curcumin, and L-theanine if I happen to feel anxious.  The first 2 are lipophilic/oil, so their good effect cumulates with time.  Curcumin/turmeric is a good overall addition to a healthy lifestyle, and thousands of years of daily consumption in India have been proven safe and beneficial for health.

I already take quercetin/bromelain in my sport pre-pack, 2 times a week, and take it in my pre-pack in addition, but it is so effective and helpful that I wouldn't take every single day, I want it to keep an edge and make a difference when I take it.


I would not do separate pre-pack without the "daily" part, I would only use my whole pre-pack anyway, because, first of all, omega-3, flaxseed and curcumin are safe at those doses, even if 2 times the same day, and because I take my pre-pack either early in the morning or in the evening, when a release is planned, or during the night, in case of a NE, so if I want to skip a daily supplementation at breakfast, I can, knowing I have already taken those 3 in the pre-pack.

See what fits for you, and take to time to adjust your protocol to your own situation.

I am glad that you already feel energized, and I am not surprised.  It already happened once that I had an emergency call between the time I took my pre-pack, and the planned release.  I had to go, so no release.  I felt too much energy, for the remaining part of the dauy, from the pre-pack, and realized how hard I was struck by POIS so that I need that much supplements just to be functional and normal, but not energized, just normal, after a release.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: rainman on October 10, 2017, 12:21:46 AM
Thank you Quantum for the detailed response.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on October 10, 2017, 07:34:51 AM
You are very welcomed.

I can mention that, living up North, with long winter with not much sunlight, I take 1000ui of vitamin D daily, but that is not for POIS, but for general health, to counteract lack of sunlight.  However, vit D is good for auto-immune problems, so it does not hurt.


Let me know after a while about the results you get, Rainman.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: rainman on October 10, 2017, 02:01:12 PM
Quantum,

I will keep you posted. I need to muster the courage to take the PRE-PACK and plan a release. To see what happens. Since I have not had an NE yet.

Btw, at one point you had mentioned you take Taurine as well. Is that still part of your normal routine?

Thanks,
Rainman
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on October 11, 2017, 12:09:54 AM
Hi Rainman,

No, taurine is not part of my normal routine.  I use it when there are some POIS "leftover" symptoms even if I took my pre-pack properly, among other products I have as a second line of defense ( with others like pine bark extract, pomegranate extract, Moducare,  vitamin C, ....).

I used to take it more often because I was more anxious ( taurine is a NMDS receptor blockers, which help with anxiety).  Well, after 10 years of psychotherapy, my baseline level of anxiety have decreased, and after 3 years of having found this forum and having developed my pre-pack,  anxiety is kept at bay, usually, now, so I need less supplement in order to control my anxiety.  And, at over 50, sex is less important in my relationship with my wife, and she really prefers when I stay myself ( I used to undergo a significant personality change during POIS), so she doesn't insist a lot for frequent sexual activity.  Less releases means less anxiety to manage, for me. In the last 3 years, she almost never saw the "anxious and exhausted madman" I become in POIS, and I think she is really ready to some compromise in order to never see him again.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: rainman on October 11, 2017, 01:15:34 AM
Hi Quantum,

It's amazing. The way you describe your symptoms and relationship with your wife. It is almost identical to my situation. My wife rather have a stable/dependable man. Rather than someone who can easily change with the wind (I become an entirely different person, who cannot function like I normally do). On top of all of that, why have additional factors that can affect your ability to be successful at whatever you want to do professionally.

I feel really bad for those out there who have this problem, but do not know what it is. I hope one day your work get's the recognition it deserves, or those in the medical/scientific community wake up to realize this is a real problem men have to deal with.

Thanks again. You made a difference in my life.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on October 11, 2017, 09:04:31 AM
Thanks for your appreciative words, Rainman.

I hope your testing with pre-pack supplementation will lead to a good control of your POIS symptoms, so that your life and relationship will be easier to manage.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: positive_guy on November 25, 2017, 04:43:13 AM
"1 x Quercetin 500mg / Bromelain 750GDU (TDO inhibitor, antioxidant, anti-allergy, mast cells stabilizer )"

Does that mean that one should take either Quercetin or Bromelain, or both of them?
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on November 25, 2017, 07:50:14 AM
"1 x Quercetin 500mg / Bromelain 750GDU (TDO inhibitor, antioxidant, anti-allergy, mast cells stabilizer )"

Does that mean that one should take either Quercetin or Bromelain, or both of them?

Hi positive_guy,

The bromelaim in the preparation I take is there mostly to enhance quercetin absorption, because quercetin is not very well absorbed when on its own.  So, the properties listed after are those of quercetin.  Nevertheless, bromelain is a good natural anti-inflammatory in itself, so it is a valuable add-on.

I have listed the exact active ingredients of what I take in my pre-pack, to be accurate in my report of what works for me.    About the quercetin/bromelain, I suggest you include quercetin if it is safe for your condition and what you already take, and if the preparation you take also contains bromelain, I think it's a plus.

The quercetin/bromelain I take is very helping for me, both for POIS, and after post-sport fatigue.  I think I have already linked to the exact preparation I take, but can do it again here:  https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-quercetin-bromelain-120-capsules   ( I have no commercial interests with Vitacost, though, I just link to it for informational purpose, and because my experience with them is that they have good prices, reliable delivery, and a good customer service ).
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: demografx on November 25, 2017, 06:20:52 PM
This is a teriffic thread.

Thank you, Quantum.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: fathom on November 26, 2017, 05:25:33 PM
Hi Quantum, wondering if there would be some kind of diagram/picture for your pre-pack?.   I am finding that I have trouble understanding textual material (the material appears foggy to me) until I can draw a picture may it even be over-simplification.  Before visiting this forum, I never had the notion that I might have what you folks called brain-fog, but now I increasingly think that I do suffer enormous amounts of it.  This acceptance is proving scary to me also since I recently learnt about pyschosomatic diseases, which I think mean, where you over-think about something to such an extent that your body actually reacts to it, kind of like self-induced injury?   

On your pre-pack, I noticed you are taking only 100 mg of Mg.   I understand your concern about the laxative effects of Mg, but isn't that too low a dosage to be of substantial value?   The 100% DV of Mg is 400milligrams.   Also which Mg type are you taking or recommend?  I started yesterday on a 400mg dosage of MgOxide/MgAspartate/MgCitrate, and also put an order for Magnesium L-threonate. 

My pre-pack/daily-pack is similar to nanna1 and partially yours.  While it has helped me TREMENDOUSLY in day-to-day symptoms i.e. before an o, however my POIS post o symptoms have had only a minor effect (instead of 7 days, maybe its now 6 days), so I'm still on the drawing board trying to figure out what to try next.

1 x L-Theanine 250mg (NMDAR blocker, and supposed mast cells stabilizer )
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on November 26, 2017, 11:54:03 PM
Hi Fathom,

This is the exact magnesium preparation I take:  https://www.jamiesonvitamins.com/products/magnesium-100-mg  ( If you click on "ingredient information, you will see what kind of magnesium salts it is made of).   Back when I had only magnesium and green tea as defense against POIS, I would take much of these during the day, maybe 2 tablets, 3 times a day.  But it is no longer necessary, and 1 tablets of 100mg is enough, when taken with the rest of my pre-pack.  I prefer low doses of many things over high doses of a few things.

When you ask for a diagram, you mean a daigram of how it works?  You may take a look at http://fr.slideshare.net/adonissfera/tryptophan-and-madness/17-Cytokines_Come_in_Two_FlavorsProInflammatory   , a diagram showing how the kynurenin toxic products causes brain symptoms... Is that what you were looking for ?  ( In the diagram, take not that in addition to the abbreviaiton already defined, TRP = tryptophan, and 5-HT = serotonin).

Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: positive_guy on November 27, 2017, 07:03:14 AM
So are POIS symptoms caused by toxins? Quantum, what do you think about also using detoxifying supplements?
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on November 27, 2017, 08:39:29 AM
Hi PG,

In my hypothesis, cognitive and emotional symptoms ( all brain symptoms) are linked to toxic kynurenine products ( for more on this, see http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1988.msg15559#msg15559  ). 

Also, I think that the more our liver and overall body is clean/free of toxin, the less severe POIS is ( this last hypothesis is supported by the fact that, in addition to my personal results with overall liver support, some members like Kurtosis and nanna1 had great results on reducing their POIS by supporting a detoxification pathway of the liver called methylation).  I suggest you read my thread on liver detoxification at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2431.msg20521#msg20521
(First post gives explanations about why I think liver detoxification is important in POIS, and third post gives advice on how to do liver detox )
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Jimmy on November 27, 2017, 11:41:12 AM
Hi Quantum,

Can you please provide a summary of the ingredients of your pre -pack ? Product name , dosage & the time you take it ( after a meal , on empty stomach ...  etc.)

Appreciated,
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on November 28, 2017, 09:33:51 AM
Hi Quantum,

Can you please provide a summary of the ingredients of your pre -pack ? Product name , dosage & the time you take it ( after a meal , on empty stomach ...  etc.)

Appreciated,

Hi Jimmy,

My method is described in details at the beginning of this thread, in this post: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2090.msg16604#msg16604   ( there you will have the details of what is in my pre-pack, why, and what I do in addition to taking my pre-pack, as a overall control method)


I re-paste here the list of the components of my pre-pack:


1 x Quercetin 500mg / Bromelain 750GDU (TDO inhibitor, antioxidant, anti-allergy, mast cells stabilizer )
1x Peppered curcumin  (curcuma longa 400 mg + piperin 5mg) (IDO inhibitor , anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, mast cells stabilizer, anxiolytic )
1 x 5-HTP 50mg  ( serotonin precursor )
1 x Green tea extract 200mg ( antioxidant,  raises blood pressure, potentiation of 5-HTP in the brain by inhibiting its peripheral metabolism by Dopadecarboxylase , NMDAR blocker, mast cells stabilizer [EGCG] )
1x Magnesium 100mg / tablet (NMDAR blocker, potassium regulator)
2x Flaxseed oil,  1000mg/caps ( NMDAR blocker, antioxidant )
1x Omega-# triple concentration ( 600mg EPA,  300mg DHA)
1 x Lycopene  10mg (antioxidant having an affinity for the prostate )
1 x L-Theanine 250mg (NMDAR blocker, and supposed mast cells stabilizer )
1 x potassium citrate ( electrolytic rebalancing) ( IMPORTANT WARNING:  I personally have a tendency to low potassium , = hypokalemia. This is a personal condition, so, do not take potassium supplements without the advice of your health professional,  if you take too much of it for your own needs, it can be dangerous, and can even cause fatal cardiac arrhythmia )


If I have time to, I swallow the 11 pieces of my pack with « rosemary water », that is, a glass of water with one drop of rosemary essential oil mixed in it ( rosmarinic acid act as an IDO inhibitor, and also has gaba-enhancing properties through GABA transaminase inhibition, and rosemary also contains luteolin, a mast cells stabilizer ).

It is best if taken 20 to 40 minutes before release, so all the active ingredients have been distributed in the blood and tissues, so they are present to inhibit the internal reactions leading to my POIS symptoms.   I usually take my pre-pack on an empty stomach because of time of day that sexual activity occurs, but it would work anyway on a full stomach, I would only let more time for the ingredients to be absorbed, since it would be delayed ( absorption is faster on an empty stomach).  I would then take it like 60 to 45 minutes before release.

Don't hesitate to ask if you have any other questions.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Jimmy on November 28, 2017, 02:18:21 PM
Thank you very much for the comprehensive reply !
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: positive_guy on November 29, 2017, 07:26:26 AM
@Quantum, i've reordered your stack now and will start taking it before orgasm in the future, which i didn't do yet. Right now i also take the Cascade stack 1-2 times daly. What's your opinion about those supplements, and would the interfere in any way with your stack?

The POIS Cascade stack:
On an empty stomach with water or juice, twice daily (water soluble):
---SAM-e (enteric coated)(200mg) [terminal methyl donor, a1A downregulator]
---pyridoxine HCl, vitamin B6 (2mg - 25mg) [homocysteine regulator]
---Metafolin, vitamin B9 (200mcg) [methyl group cycler]
---cyanocobalamin, vitamin B12 (50mcg) [methyl group cycler]
---Pick from one of the following three methyl group donors:
    1. tri-methylglycine, betaine (1.5g) [methyl group donor]
    2. alpha-glycerophosphocholine, alpha-GPC (1.2g) [methyl group donor]
    3. phosphatidylcholine, Lecithin concentrate (1.5g) [methyl group donor]
With food, twice daily (fat soluble):
---Benfotiamine, vitamin B1 (150mg) [h1H downregulator]
---eicosapentaenoic acid, EPA (900mg) [AA synthesis inhibitor, AA blocker]
---docosahexaenoic acid, DHA (150mg) [AA synthesis inhibitor]
---vitamin D3 (1000 IU) [AA inflammatory enzyme regulator, IDO/TDO down-regulator]


Also what's your thoughts on Maca, Siberian Ginseng (Eleutherococcus senticosus), Fenugreek, Tribulus, Saw Palmetto.

Right now i'm in a phase where after doing a little too much physical work (cleaning the house) i'm in a kind of damped state including erectile issues and a sort of overal num feeling. That's one of the sates i'm familiar with in connection with POIS and it occurs every once in a while. I also had skin rash for about a week. I often think that POIS has some connection to some sort of bacteria or virus, or maybe those just have it easier when the body is weak.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on December 04, 2017, 08:06:55 AM
Hi PG,

My opinion on this is that, personally, I have chosen not to take supplements every day, and the intention in developing my pre-pack was to take my pre-pack on a as-needed basis, because when out of POIS, I am quite healthy.   I take some supplements very often, like Vit D 1000ui because I live up north where winter is long and sunshine is scarce.  Nanna's stack is based on a daily intake. He has explained that his stack take some time to give full results, like 1 to 2 months.  How long have you been taking Nanna's stack ? Is it because you do not have good results so far that you want to add a pre-pack?

I cannot state what you can take or not take - it is against forum rules, you have to consult a health professionnal for that - but if I look at those supplements themselves, there are no major interactions that can be predicted, only that DHA-EPA/omega-3 is in the two groups of supplements, so dosage must be adjusted.

The problem with taking both may become that it will be expensive to take all this on the long run, and also, you may end up not being sure of what is efficient for you or not.  A process of subtracting some supplements, one by one, and see if benefits remain, may become necessary some time in the future.


I have already stated that I avoid products like maca and tribulus terrestris, and chinese ginseng ( different from Siberian) because I do not want more libido, obviously a problem when you have POIS.  I may have a good method of control, it has its limits, and I prefer my releases to be few and far between, my life is much easier that way.


I do not use Siberian ginseng, so cannot comment...   I do well with my current pre-pack, so I do not try much new things, currently.  Same for saw palmetto, but some members had benefits from it, in particular those who have pain/inflammation felt in the prostate region after release ( not my case).  I do include supplements that are good for prostate inflammation in my pre-pack, notably, quercetine and lycopene.

Fenugreek is fairly good for me, I tried it when I first found this forum.  It helps the liver, I take it in this regard, from time to time, and it seems to helps with oxytocin a bit, because sometime it makes me more "friendly".   But other members have had more impressive results than me with it, so you have to try and see for you.  It is safe at normal dose, but some have body odor issues with it, in particular at first, when detoxing occurs  ( with my green smoothies regimen, and my very healthy diet, I have no body odors anymore when taking fenugreek, my detox is "up to date" )

I hoep this help, ad don't forget to get enough sleep, relaxation and rest, POIS is worsen by fatigue and stress, in my case, though, and I suspect it is the same for most members!
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: positive_guy on December 06, 2017, 11:38:47 AM
I mainly use fenugreek and siberian ginseng to refill my manliness and power. POIS sometimes feels like lacking testosterone and energy, so those Supplements feel kinda logical to me to take.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Hopeoneday on December 06, 2017, 08:24:47 PM
Hi to all. I am severe poiser. i decided to register in this forum. Its been about one year i discover this place. I want to give a BIG THANKS to user like Quantum, Demografx , Nana1...an all odhers who give very much help to as.

Quantum, you give to me so much hope with your resarch with methaylation antiinflamatory, ido tdo etc...
For some poisers is key solution metabolism repair (because somwhere something
not working like in normal people).

Quantum , i read that you consume a lot of leafy greens , i find this article. https://www.samanthagilbert.com/methylfolate-vs-folic-acid-facts-myths/
where is about methaylation, and claim that people who is udermethalayted
hawe more bad than god benefits from takin greens rich in folic acid b9...
because folic acid act as serotonin reuptake. That mean that you hawe les serotonin, gaba in brain etc... maybe i am read somethin wrong.
 

I think olso for some poisers can benefit from gaba increase in brain as i read some
of them is helped selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors.
Bad english sory. And in pois state.





Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: demografx on December 06, 2017, 11:55:39 PM
Hopeoneday, welcome to POISCenter!
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on December 07, 2017, 08:31:36 AM
Hi to all. I am severe poiser. i decided to register in this forum. Its been about one year i discover this place. I want to give a BIG THANKS to user like Quantum, Demografx , Nana1...an all odhers who give very much help to as.

Quantum, you give to me so much hope with your resarch with methaylation antiinflamatory, ido tdo etc...
For some poisers is key solution metabolism repair (because somwhere something
not working like in normal people).

Quantum , i read that you consume a lot of leafy greens , i find this article. https://www.samanthagilbert.com/methylfolate-vs-folic-acid-facts-myths/
where is about methaylation, and claim that people who is udermethalayted
hawe more bad than god benefits from takin greens rich in folic acid b9...
because folic acid act as serotonin reuptake. That mean that you hawe les serotonin, gaba in brain etc... maybe i am read somethin wrong.
 

I think olso for some poisers can benefit from gaba increase in brain as i read some
of them is helped selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors.
Bad english sory. And in pois state.


Hi Hopeoneday,

Thanks for your words of appreciation ! 

About methylation and the article you give the link to, there is still much confusion in all this "undermetylated" and "overmethylated" debate on the interent.  You can find very active and respected people that will say the exact opposite of what this article says ( for example, Dr Lynch, on his well-known mthfr.com site).   Personnally, I think that those notions and test are too new and have not been tested enough in good old scientific studies, and are still not adopted by mainstream medical practice, so for now, some caution is advised about these affirmations, be it one side or the other.   All this field of "metabolic medicine", back up by the also quite knew DNA testing and detection of personal SNPs in your genetic code, iwll grow in the next decades, and information will get more reliable.

For now, I prefer to talk about supporting the whole of the liver detoxificaiton process, and not talking about mehtylation, which is only one of these process.  See my thread on liver detoxification at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2431.msg20521#msg20521 , for more details. 

Also, I prefer to get all the nutriments needed for a good overall detox in healthy food, rather than taking high doses of some single supplements ( you will see on the interent, for example, that some person advice to take huge doses of methylfolate.... I think that's not safe, and not wise).  Moreover, when I tried methylfolate 3 years ago, I had a bad reaction to it.   But I have a good result with fruits and veggies.   Kurtosis, one of the first member here who have written about methylation, also wrote that he had better results with fruits and veggies than with mehtylation support supplements only.  I think it is because healthy fruits and veggies bring much more than just methylfolate, and help restart all of the phase I pathways of liver detoxification, as well as the 7 or 8 phase II detoxification pathways, indlucing mehtylation.   So, if your problem is with sulfonation rather than methylation, you get covered too when you eat whole healthy food.

I think that a nice mix of organic fruits and organic vegetables are what best meets the "manufacturer's standards", and are what our bodies need for optimal health.

At any rate, when you first start green smoothies or other ways to raise your intake of vegetables and fruits, go slowly, start with low to moderate quantities, because you will start up detox processes that may have been dormant for a while, and this may cause effects in the body, like itching, weird sensations, etc...   Drinking a lot of source water helps during detox - it will help "take the trash out" of the body.   As tolerance allows it, you can then slowly raise the amount you are eating every day.  I didn't have much issues when I started, only mild "adaptation" symptoms, and after 1 or 2 months, my detox was "up-to-date" and could take my smoothies without any noticeable negative effect, and could, on the opposite, feel more energized.







 
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: hapl on December 08, 2017, 04:37:40 PM
I've had POIS in some form or fashion for a number of years.

I've found that it's highly dependent on my current condition as well. If I'm generally feeling okay, it's usually not too bad. But when I'm feeling under the weather (more on that to come), then it can be debilitating for days or even a week plus.

(Possibly I should open another thread on this, but will add here for the moment?)

A couple years ago I injured my knee exercising. Weirdly it never properly healed despite physical therapy, acupuncture, etc. Nothing is structurally wrong (no torn ACL or MCL, etc), but I am unable to strengthen it. Other muscles have also gotten significantly weaker during this period.

During this time, my POIS got significantly worse. Before it was a minor annoyance, now it's become impossible.

I've tried many supplements with some moderate success (garlic, D-ribose, etc). But recently tried Quantum's pre-pack.

Used everything other than a couple items - no electrolytes (drank some gatorade instead) and lycopene and quercetin. The rest I took.

I found that the first 24 hours were much improved. But around 24 hours in I started feeling worse. Now I'm around 48 hours and feeling still worse - fatigue, brain fog, headache, hypotension, etc. I took some Taurine and D-ribose and TMG and Ginkgo, but only a modest improvement.

Reading Quantum's posts about hypotension, when I'm feeling poorly, I also tend to have a low systolic and sometimes a low pulse pressure. (Because of my other health issues, I've monitored such things).

I've seen a number of posts about what to take besides the pre-pack. Curious in relation to hypotension and brain fog and fatigue: what would be the best supplement mix?

Is it good to take 5-htp and magnesium, or leave those for the pre-pack. Taurine, TMG, Ginkgo, ALA, Alpha GPC, Eleuthero, Astragalus, Milk Thistle, etc. I guess I'm curious which pre-pack items I should take until POIS is definitely finished, and which items I should add on off days?

Thanks for this resource - it's such a specific thing that most people have never heard of.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: demografx on December 08, 2017, 06:20:03 PM
hapi, welcome to POISCenter!
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on December 10, 2017, 09:31:13 AM
Hi hapi,

Low blood pressure is very important to manage, because it really makes us feel very tired, weak and lightheaded.


I re-paste here the part about hypotension, from the initial post of this thread:

"For low blood pressure: Currently, I have no more low blood pressure problems if I take my pre-pack correctly.  However, If I notice after release that my BP is becoming borderline low ( which is for me, something like 107/68), I take some rosemary or some green tea extract, or sometime another 25mg of 5-HTP with some green tea extract. Also, as needed throughout the day, I take water with salt added to it ( salt causes fluid retention, which makes blood pressure to raise - that's why salt must be avoided by those who have hypertension).  Salted water is cheap and very effective to raise blood pressure.   For tolerance, you have to see what one's is able to take.  I can take 1/4 teaspoon in a glass of water with no problem.  It takes about 20 to 30 mins to show results on the blood monitor.  Once my diastolic ( the second, smaller figure) raises at 70 or higher, I feel ok.
Having no more hypotension and extreme fatigue is in itself a great, great success for me in POIS control, and can be accounted as a 50% relief at least.  Hypotension has been causing me a loooooot of fatigue, lightheadedness, intolerance to exercise, cold sweat, depressive feelings,  sense of powerlessness, trouble going through my day at work, and so on …."

So, to answer your question, hapi, yes, taking 5-HTP and green tea helps for hypotension.  Electrolytes help too, so taking magnesium, potassium, help.  But, mainly, taking salt in water is cheap and very effective at raising blood pressure. I also have good results with one drop of rosemary essential oil in water, but it as a camphor-like taste, but personally, I have no problem with that. 

One way I had recently discover to replenish my electrolytes, and I do use it after sport, is to take coconut water.  It is a natural way to take up magnesium, potassium, and other electrolytes.  It has become very popular here, and is sold in small packs or larger bottles.  I never tried this one for POIS, because my current method is already effective enough.

Once hypotension is managed, it is easier to see what helps for the other symptoms.  For me, like I said, hypotension was very debilitating, and could count for as much as 50% of the problems I had in POIS.   
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: hapl on December 20, 2017, 03:11:18 PM
I seem to often have around 105/70 blood pressure - although when I feel better it's usually right at 120/80. I haven't tried the salt water yet, but gatorade (lots of sodium), electrolyte pills, salty foods and green tea, none of those seems to make much of a difference.

I tried a pre-pack consisting of Magnesium, Curcumin, Bromelain, Vit C, Fenugreek, Theanine, 5-HTP, Quercetin, Lycopene. I found that it made me a bit shaky (almost like too much caffeine on an empty stomach), but otherwise POIS was definitely reduced by a a day or two (normally 3-5 days, here it felt more like 1-2 days).

Which items in the pre-pack do you think are most important? And any idea which part might cause the shakiness feeling? I often take Magnesium, Fenugreek, Quercetin, Bromelain, Vit C, Curcumin. I am new to Theanine, Lycopene, 5-HTP.

The next day I took some taurine, TMG, and normal supplements. I also took some Tribulus, but discontinued as I feel like it may have affected my mood.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Hopeoneday on December 21, 2017, 11:31:36 AM
Nice link https://bebrainfit.com/serotonin-supplements

Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on December 21, 2017, 04:54:32 PM
I seem to often have around 105/70 blood pressure - although when I feel better it's usually right at 120/80. I haven't tried the salt water yet, but gatorade (lots of sodium), electrolyte pills, salty foods and green tea, none of those seems to make much of a difference.

I tried a pre-pack consisting of Magnesium, Curcumin, Bromelain, Vit C, Fenugreek, Theanine, 5-HTP, Quercetin, Lycopene. I found that it made me a bit shaky (almost like too much caffeine on an empty stomach), but otherwise POIS was definitely reduced by a a day or two (normally 3-5 days, here it felt more like 1-2 days).

Which items in the pre-pack do you think are most important? And any idea which part might cause the shakiness feeling? I often take Magnesium, Fenugreek, Quercetin, Bromelain, Vit C, Curcumin. I am new to Theanine, Lycopene, 5-HTP.

The next day I took some taurine, TMG, and normal supplements. I also took some Tribulus, but discontinued as I feel like it may have affected my mood.


Hi hapl,

First, I am very glad for you that you have found at least some relief for your POIS.  Having a 3 to 4 day reduction is a great leap forward in the management of your POIS, and with refinement of your method, I am confident you will get better results still.   

I cannot tell for sure which supplement made you shaky, but I suggest you start with those you are familiar with, and then, add only one new item to your pack at a time, so you can discern which one causes the over-stimulation.  From there, you can than reduce the dosage of the suspected supplement, and see the results the next time.   For example, if you try a pack with all the supplement you are use to, you will see if you have this shakiness effect ( you may have less relief, but you have to go slowly to get to consistent and valuable results).   then, if all right, you can add, next time, a new one, like 5-HTP.  If the side effect shows up, try with a very low dose of 5-HTP, maybe 1/4 of the dose that causes the side effect.  You could also choose to put this one supplement aside, and try adding other ones, and slowly customize your own pre-pack this way. 

At any rate, some of what you have taken in your current pre-pack is useful for you, because you get a marked reduction in duration. So, take notes on what have been effective, keep those as a stable foundation, and slowly add to your back upon what's already known to be beneficial.  Keep up the testing, be rigorous in your approach and note everything ( composition of the tested pre-pack, time taken, results, % of relief both on severity and duration... ), and in a few months, you will have progressed a lot, and will have more and more relief of your symptoms.  That's not a cure, but your quality of life will skyrocket :)

( P.S. for raising blood pressure when in POIS, rosemary essential oil is one of the best for me, one drop in half a glass of water, and, as you mentioned, salted water too)
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on December 21, 2017, 05:00:59 PM
Nice link https://bebrainfit.com/serotonin-supplements

Yes, and interesting to note that most of these are helpful for POIS at least for some members.  5-HTP, B6, vit D, SAMe, etc.... are often noted as beneficial for members, in their control method.

My preferred sources of tryptophan are pumpkin seeds and turkey breast  ( without nitrate and preservatives, of course ;)  )   
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Michael218 on December 23, 2017, 05:57:22 PM
It's funny Quantum, my worst symptom prior to any prepack was anxiety, brain fog, concentration... I had never really experienced mood issues. Or at least I was.never conscious of them because other symptoms were so intense. But now, with about 80% relief, the only symptoms left are mood issues. :) I really notice it. Anxiety is gone. But I can become really moody. Thankfully mindfulness enables one to self-enquire and monitor their own state of consciousness, so it can be contained generally on the outside, but internally, there really is a battle of moods bouncing around.... I wonder if you have identified a specific supplement that addresses that one symptom yet?

As you know mainly take B's. I also take Quercetin and Curcumin straight after to get the best of both  worlds as I have no idea which vitamins do what.

I just purchased some SAMe (Nannas sourced NOW brand contains a little folate, b6 and b12 in it which is frustrating as I wanted to take it daily but dont want to become immune to protection from the B's), 5htp and Benfiotiamine in an effort to give Nanna's a try. Also been taking about 5-10 grams of fish oil the past 6 weeks or so.

Anyway won't blabber on... who knows what works... a lot could be to do with diet, so what works for one could simply work because it addresss that person's deficiency in smth...
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on December 24, 2017, 09:19:55 AM
Hi Michael,

I am happy to hear that you still have a high level of symptoms relief.  At 80%, you surely have made a leap in your quality of life.

I would say that all of my pre-pack in general is good for stabilizing my mood ( through IDO, TDO inhibition, NMDAr block, and so on).   In my case, omega-3 have a marked beneficial effect on my mood.  Flaxseed as well.  Of course, regular meditation ( 5 to 10 mins daily are enough) is important for my emotional stability.

When I have some leftover POIS symptoms, fenugreek seems to be helping in making my mood a little bit more "mellow", more relational.  this may be linked to its oxytocin-like effect.  I do tolerate it well, it doesn't cause me body odor or other side effects.

Happy Holidays to everyone!
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Michael218 on December 25, 2017, 04:59:25 AM
Great, thanks Quant. Always helpful. Cheers.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: positive_guy on January 20, 2018, 10:29:27 AM
This was a private conversation, which i have the permission to post.

I was reading, that grapefruit has a negative impact on medicine. Does grapefruit impact or lower the effect of any of the supplements found in those stacks from this forum?

-------------------------------------------------------
Quantum wrote:

Hi positive_guy,


The interactions caused by grapefruit go the other way, that is, they raise the concentration of the drug they interact with, by blocking their elimination. What we can have as a harmful effect is the toxic side effects we would have from a higher than usual dose of the herb or drug that grapefruit interact with. The classic example is with the antihypertensive drugs of the calcium channel blockers family ( nifedipine, felodipine, ...) - when taken with grapefruit, their concentration gets higher than usual with the same dose, and the patient will experience hypotension, a bit like if he had taken a double dose of his pills.   

There is no significant interactions reported to date with herbs or vitamins, and grapefruit.  The only I would be cautious with is St-John-Wort, but I have not found any confirmation of this, and this herb is not very used by the forum members ( SJ Wort has a high potential for many interactions with herbs and drugs).

For more informaiton on grapefruit and drug interactions, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapefruit%E2%80%93drug_interactions .

My own, personal pre-pack has no interactions with grapefruit, and nanna's stack neither. 

This is another advantage of using moderate to low doses of many components rather than high dosage of a few components - you are less exposed to this kind of interaction because you have a better security margin for unusual variations in the bioavailability of your usual dosage.

Have a great, POIS-free day!
Quantum
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: positive_guy on January 29, 2018, 04:44:52 AM
@Quantum

Since your PIOS Stack contains stimulants like caffein and i think also 5-htp supposedly keeps you also awake, do you only take it during the day? How do you deal with this if you want to take it at night?

Don't know its effect on my sleep yet, because i usually combine it with a niacin supplement which also contains caffein, and a couple of times i couldn't sleep. The times when i also took diphenhydramine i could sleep. But i'd like to avoid taking chemical stuff, and i'm not sure diphenhydramine solved my POIS. Also i seem to suffer from bad memory, which supposeldy can also be a side effect of diphenhydramine, but apparently is also in the list of POIS symptoms.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on January 29, 2018, 07:56:37 AM
Hi PG,

There is no caffeine in my pre-pack, because the green tea extract I use is caffeine-free ( Jamieson brand).  But you are right, some of the elements in my pre-pack give energy a boost, but it is much needed for me when in POIS. 

I never had problem sleeping using my pre-pack, even if taken late in the evening, or in the middle of the night.   I have to say however that I rarely, if never, have problems to sleep.   

Not everyone react the same to 5-HTP, some people take it before sleep as a sleep aid, so you have to see for yourself what is your own reaction to it.

My pre-pack is adjusted to my condition, so I do not feel boosted when taking it.  I will only feel more energized than usual if I take my pre-pack, and some sort of emergency happens so that I have to go and will not have release.  It happened once, and with that much products taken with no POIS, I felt a little like on overdrive.   Well, it showed me that POIS really takes a toll on my energy level, and my pre-pack compensate for it.

I do not drink coffee or use caffeine, I am very intolerant to it, it makes me anxious and shaky.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: romies on January 30, 2018, 01:55:00 PM
Since your PIOS Stack contains stimulants like caffein and i think also 5-htp supposedly keeps you also awake, do you only take it during the day? How do you deal with this if you want to take it at night?

5-HTP can be both energizing or calming, depending on whether you are serotonin deficient.

Personally anecdote with a single dose 100mg 12 hr extended-release 5htp from Natrol.

When I am in a POIS state, 5-HTP gives me a small boost of energy, typically for 8-12 hrs.
When I am not in a POIS state, 5-HTP makes me sleepy, usually lasting for 24 hrs.

You can experiment it yourself, as long as your are *not* using any SSRI or MAOI.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on March 15, 2018, 12:56:36 PM
Curcumin/turmeric has been a part of my pre-pack right from the start ( I use curcumin with black pepper, so the absorption of the active ingredient is much better)

I also add some curcumin and black pepper to my daily breakfast ( actually, I add them into my cereals, along with blueberries, raspberries, and pumpkin seeds). 

Last week, on vacations, I didn't had any curcumin for a week.   I do not know if it is because of the very high humidity in Mexico, or because of the lack of curcumin, but by the end of the week, I had some minor joint pain, in particular in the index of my right hand ( maybe because of my badminton playing style - I often feel some stiffness the morning after playing, but no pain). I never had pain in that joint before.  After 2 days back here, the pain was entirely gone.   Usually, cold weather is not good for joints pain, so I wonder if it is the curcumin, a good, natural, anti-inflammatory, that has made the difference.

Anyway, peppered curcumin sure helps me with POIS, and is a very valuable part of my pre-pack, having several positive properties ( (IDO inhibitor , anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, mast cells stabilizer, anxiolytic ).  It works good for me, so it must help or compensate for one or more of my metabolic flaws.

 
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on September 04, 2018, 09:04:26 AM
Update:   more than 3 years, my pre-pack method is still efficient for me.  I have not developed a tolerance to my pre-pack, it is still working for me.   However, I limit my releases to about 3 a month, spaced at least by one week  ( being over 50, this is not a problem for me ).   My method would not work well with too frequent releases.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: fsol on September 06, 2019, 11:55:38 PM
Update from me as well: This pre-pack is also still effective for me. I use double dosage as I'm quite tall and relatively heavy. Combined with abstinence and working out, this is so far the best relief method I have tried to far and continues to be it. Thank you Quantum!
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on September 18, 2019, 08:21:33 AM
Update from me as well: This pre-pack is also still effective for me. I use double dosage as I'm quite tall and relatively heavy. Combined with abstinence and working out, this is so far the best relief method I have tried to far and continues to be it. Thank you Quantum!

Thanks for your feedback, fsol !,  I am glad that you still have relief with this pre-pack method :)
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: an-y-more on November 01, 2019, 07:51:15 PM
Can you please elaborate about rosemary acid/essential/water you use? I found only cosmetic rosemary in my country which is not supposed to be taken perorally ( also rosemary acid can cause problems with stomach which is essential since I have gastritis).
Do you just use a drip of steam distillation obtained cosmetic rosemary to water and drink? Has it caused some problems with stomach for you and did you have any problems with mucosa?
Sorry if it's been elaborated already but I quite don't get it and want to be sure to keep my mucosa safe before trying it, thank you!
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on November 01, 2019, 10:17:29 PM
Can you please elaborate about rosemary acid/essential/water you use? I found only cosmetic rosemary in my country which is not supposed to be taken perorally ( also rosemary acid can cause problems with stomach which is essential since I have gastritis).
Do you just use a drip of steam distillation obtained cosmetic rosemary to water and drink? Has it caused some problems with stomach for you and did you have any problems with mucosa?
Sorry if it's been elaborated already but I quite don't get it and want to be sure to keep my mucosa safe before trying it, thank you!

Hi an-y-more,

The exact rosemary oil I use is one from an aromatherapy line, not a cosmetic line.  It is this one :  https://www.avogel.ca/en/essential-oils/rosemary.php ( from A.Vogel).   It is a high quality oil.  But note that the company does not mention that it can be taken orally like I do.  I could also use grounded organic rosemary, that can be found at a health store, in the spice and herbs section, and find what quantity is needed to get a good effect, but I prefer the essential oil, which is more concentrated.  I am very careful using it, so I never had any problem with it.

The bottles from Vogel have a dropper under the cap, so by handling the bottle carefully, I can add only one to two drops in a glass of water.  I then mix carefully before drinking, because if you do not mix it well, the oil drops will naturally float on the surface, and will stay concentrated, and may be irritating if taken up like that, but not when the oil is well mixed in the glass of water.   

I could also choose to mix it in a large spoon of olive oil, but I prefer mixing it in water.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: demografx on November 01, 2019, 10:20:35 PM
Hi an-y-more, welcome to the forum!
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: drop247 on November 02, 2019, 06:39:55 AM
Do you have problems sleeping after taking this? I took Curcumin and Quercetin before an O once at night and couldn't get to sleep until 4 am. Not even 5htp helped.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on December 17, 2019, 10:36:19 AM
Do you have problems sleeping after taking this? I took Curcumin and Quercetin before an O once at night and couldn't get to sleep until 4 am. Not even 5htp helped.

Hi Drop, sorry for the late reply, I didn't see your question before today.

No, for me it does not prevent sleep, maybe because I am so tired after O.   Once, I took my pre-pack 40 minutes before a supposed relation with my spouse, and an emergency occurred and I had to leave the house in order to help someone.... I felt a tremendous amount of energy, having taken all those supplements, but no release after.   It showed me how much of a toll ejaculation has on me.

You may experiment for yourself and see which supplement prevents you from sleeping, so then you can customize your pre-pack according to your personal needs.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on December 17, 2019, 10:39:10 AM
You can read in this thread an interesting discussion about how Romies uses his pre-pack:    https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3164.msg32273#msg32273

( this message and those following this one in that thread)
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on June 25, 2020, 10:14:56 PM
Like I have explained at the beginning of the thread, I have low blood pressure when in POIS.   One of the main ingredient in my pre-pack to help raise it back to normal is green tea.
Green tea is helping me raise my blood pressure (BP) for 4 to 6 hours, but now that I take it with the other supplement in my pre-pack, I only have to take it once, as included in my pre-pack, 30 mins to 1 hour before ejaculation. 

At first, when I first discovered that POIS was giving me hypotension, and that green tea was helping to raise my blood pressure back to normal, I was drinking commercial iced tea.  But for years now, I use Green Tea extract capsules, because I have now a very healthy diet, which also helps with POIS, so I do not drink sugary drinks anymore. The green tea capsules I take are very effective and high quality, with standardized EGCG and standardized polyphenols, which are the antioxidants in it  ( I use the Jamieson ones - I have no commercial link with them - the one I use are these:  https://www.amazon.ca/Jamieson-Green-Tea-Phytosome-Complex/dp/B001Q8BBFS (https://www.amazon.ca/Jamieson-Green-Tea-Phytosome-Complex/dp/B001Q8BBFS) )  .

So, green tea, one of my first anti-POIS supplement, is still part of my pre-pack today :)
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on September 12, 2020, 03:38:11 PM
Just a reminder of how I have developped my custom pre-pack:
- Started with the supplements I kenw were helping me with POIS even if not enough ( magnesium adn green tea were my firts allies against POIS) - Then I read and searched a lot on the forum to better understand POIS and see what would help me.- I added only one supplement at a time, and test it for some weeks, to see if better results. If better relief than the previous pack alone, I kept it.- keeping all those added to date, I tried many others but only one new supplement at a time, at least 2 times ( unless it was clearly worsening my POIS).- after 6 months, I had pretty much the same composition that I still use today, 5 years later.
You can see all the ingredients and why I added them, in the initial post of this thread, at https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2090.msg16604#msg16604


Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Monte on September 22, 2020, 04:34:33 AM
Great topic, Quantum. I wonder how it works, that L-Theanine is doing so good (blocking NMDA) and glycine, which is agonist of NMDA, works good too (some users take TMG / betaine)...
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Muon on September 22, 2020, 04:54:58 AM
What receptors have affinity for milnacipran? Is there a list somewhere?

The only receptor listed on drugbank.com is NMDA:

https://go.drugbank.com/drugs/DB04896

Milnacipran inhibits glutamatergic N-Methyl-D-Aspartate receptor activity in Spinal Dorsal Horn Neurons

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3407012/
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Monte on September 22, 2020, 05:11:01 AM
But the strange thing is, I often feel better after taking calcium and sodium. As we know, it is the NMDA receptor that allows the flow of calcium and sodium ions. Personally, after drinking green tea (which contains theanine, i.e. the NMDA blocker), I have brain fog and confusion and anxiety (although for the first minutes after drinking I feel better, but later it is only worse). Shouldn't I rather be folding to try an NMDA agonist (Glycine, TMG / betaine)? The more so because the symptoms caused by the failure of the NMDA receptor are very similar to the over-stimulation of this receptor.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on November 16, 2020, 02:02:32 PM
Recently there have been discussion about POIS and hypotension ( low blood pressure).  My custom pre-pack is oriented toward raising blood pressure, for example with green tea, and, for me, 5-HTP ( for some people, though, and depending on the dose, 5-HTP could also lower blood pressure, so no clear predictable effect ).   

I have seen case of members who, on the contrary, develop high blood pressure during POIS acute phase, so if you want to develop a custom POIS pre-pack, this is one of the many things to consider.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: BoneBroth on November 16, 2020, 03:34:25 PM
At the last measure I didn't see any decrease in blood pressure after release, rather the opposite. Both SYS/DIA was 10 points higher (for example 123/63) that day than during the following 3 days. I'm starting to think that during orgasm there are substances released that increases blood pressure. However, the effect in the long run is low blood pressure, either it is caues by long term POIS, or POIS is caused by the same thing that cause low blood pressure. Of cource you can have hight blood pressure due to a unhealthy life style, and then that effect will dominate.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on November 16, 2020, 04:13:13 PM
At the last measure I didn't see any decrease in blood pressure after release, rather the opposite. Both SYS/DIA was 10 points higher (for example 123/63) that day than during the following 3 days. I'm starting to think that during orgasm there are substances released that increases blood pressure. However, the effect in the long run is low blood pressure, either it is caues by long term POIS, or POIS is caused by the same thing that cause low blood pressure. Of cource you can have hight blood pressure due to a unhealthy life style, and then that effect will dominate.
For me, I have normal blood pressure when out of POIS ( I never had high blood pressure, and my healthy habits keeps it that way, now, in my 50s). As soon as POIS kicks in, a few hours after O, I have hypotension, till POIS subsides, usually 2 days later, when I do not take the pre-pack described at the beginning of this thread.  If I take my pre-pack, my blood pressure stays normal.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: BoneBroth on November 16, 2020, 04:35:26 PM
Thats interesting!
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on March 09, 2021, 08:20:31 PM
My complete method is described in the first post of this thread, at :
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2090.msg16604#msg16604 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2090.msg16604#msg16604)
I hope this can inspire and help other members!
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: berlin1984 on July 29, 2021, 02:44:00 PM
Just to make it clear that I not only had successes in developping my relief method, and had to try and test many things before finding a combination that really works well for me and is safe, I will mention a few things that didn't not work for me, or that made me worse. I will not list all I have tried, but my most relevant "fails"

Sorry if this was mentioned in the thread somewhere, I only searched for the word "hista" on each page and not for all product names...

Question: Did you not try to combine your pre-pack with cetirizine (Zyrtec) or similar?
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on July 30, 2021, 08:27:29 AM
Just to make it clear that I not only had successes in developing my relief method, and had to try and test many things before finding a combination that really works well for me and is safe, I will mention a few things that didn't work for me, or that made me worse. I will not list all I have tried, but my most relevant "fails"

Sorry if this was mentioned in the thread somewhere, I only searched for the word "hista" on each page and not for all product names...

Question: Did you not try to combine your pre-pack with cetirizine (Zyrtec) or similar?
I think I have tried Claritin (loratadine), but not cetirizine, but no out-of-the-ordinary results compared to other elements of my pre-pack.  And, my preferred supplements for allergies are Modurare and quercetin.  Both are useful in controlling my POIS.  I chose not to include Moducare as a "regular member" of my pre-pack because it is more expansive than the other elements ( I also had a "cost/benefit" approach in building my pre-pack).  Quercetin was a good addition to my pre-pack, and is still part of it.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: hapl on July 31, 2021, 11:48:58 PM
What would be the more 'cost no object' version of your pre-pack?
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: berlin1984 on August 01, 2021, 01:31:03 PM
My (good!) experiences with this pre-pack: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3760.msg41749#msg41749
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on August 01, 2021, 09:49:33 PM
What would be the more 'cost no object' version of your pre-pack?
Hi Hapl,

I could have used Moducare as a regular component of my pre-pack, if I had not wanted to optimize the cost/benefit of my pre-pack.  However, the version I am using is no less effective than would be a version containing Moducare. 

The components I use are effective for me, but as I have explained already, any POIS sufferer has to make his own tests in order to find a custom-made pre-pack that is effective for himself.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on August 01, 2021, 10:12:43 PM
My (good!) experiences with this pre-pack: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3760.msg41749#msg41749 (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3760.msg41749#msg41749)
Great news, Berlin !  I am glad that the pre-pack method has been useful for you.
I will read your updates with interest.




Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: berlin1984 on November 03, 2021, 02:38:55 PM
Healthy diet:   about 15 years ago, I have started to eat a more healthy diet. (...)  So, no refined sugars, no artificial flavor or color, no preservatives, no MSG, no aspartame, no suspect ingredients ( yes I read all the food labels), no fruit juices ( just whole fruits), no HFGS, no milk ( I can eat cheese, but milk causes tons of mucus production in my sinuses and in my bowels, I have replaced it by hemp, almond or rice drink in my morning organic cereals ),..  I have introduced organic food, healthy spices, healthy veggies, veal liver, dried fruits and nuts, organic wheatgrass juice, omega-3, sources of tryptophan, lots of source water, etc... (...)  I eat meat, fish, eggs, dark chocolate, I sometimes drink wine, and I do not eat tofu at all - it's tasteless!  I eat at the restaurant with friends - it's just like, I won't order French fries and will choose something healthier on the menu.

Regular exercise:   a good sweat two times a week ( my preferences are badminton and tennis in double - the social/team aspect is a real bonus for me).  Exercise is good for the brain and for the body.   On the second day of POIS, if I have residual symptoms, they will be gone after exercise.

(...)
1 x Quercetin 500mg / Bromelain 750GDU (TDO inhibitor, antioxidant, anti-allergy, mast cells stabilizer )
1x Peppered curcumin  (Curcuma longa 400 mg + piperin 5mg) (IDO inhibitor, anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, mast cells stabilizer, anxiolytic )
1 x 5-HTP 50mg  ( serotonin precursor )
1 x Green tea extract 200mg ( antioxidant,  raises blood pressure, potentiation of 5-HTP in the brain by inhibiting its peripheral metabolism by Dopadecarboxylase, NMDAR blocker, mast cells stabilizer [EGCG] )
1 x Magnesium 100mg / tablet (NMDAR blocker, potassium regulator)
2 x Flaxseed oil,  1000mg/caps ( NMDAR blocker, antioxidant )
1 x Omega-3 triple concentration, 600 mg EPA/ 300 mg DHA ( emotional support/anxiolytic, anti-inflammatory effect )
1 x Lycopene  10mg (antioxidant having an affinity for the prostate )
1 x L-Theanine 250mg (NMDAR blocker, and supposed mast cells stabilizer )
1 x potassium citrate ( electrolytic rebalancing) ( IMPORTANT WARNING:  I personally have a tendency to low potassium , = hypokalemia. This is a personal condition, so, do not take potassium supplements without the advice of your health professional,  if you take too much of it for your own needs, it can be dangerous, and can even cause fatal cardiac arrhythmia )

If I have time to, I swallow the 11 pieces of my pack with "rosemary water", that is, a glass of water with one drop of rosemary essential oil in it ( rosmarinic acid act as an IDO inhibitor, and also has GABA-enhancing properties through GABA transaminase inhibition, and rosemary also contains luteolin, a mast cells stabilizer ).

I just want to point out that a lot (nearly all?) of your diet and supplement choices are AMPK activators. (Google the supplement or food name together with the keyword AMPK, e.g. "green tea extract ampk". As a kind of proxy, you can also append "weight loss" instead of "ampk"

It could be an interesting try for to investigate other AMPK activators...

Disclaimer: I'm not a biology guy, someone please correct me if i'm wrong here.
Title: Re: My method for prevention and control of my POIS symptoms - 80% to 100% effective
Post by: Quantum on November 03, 2021, 03:19:19 PM
Thanks for this observation, Berlin, about AMPK activators.  I will look into that.
I suspect that, with the many components of my pre-pack, many mechanisms are beneficial and add up.  The one you are pointing out is probably one of these.