Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (P.O.I.S.)
POIS Cause/Treatment Discussions => General Alternative Causes and Treatments of POIS => Topic started by: poisperson on June 17, 2013, 12:29:47 PM
-
Note: Please ignore the following message on a possible link between Pois and UARS.
Put simply, the extent to which my POIS has benefited from the steps I have taken to tackle my UARS isn't such that I can say with any confidence that a credible link exists between the two. Yes I had UARS and yes I became better on tackling it, but there are other (more significant) powers at play here and so I would ignore or at least take with a pinch of salt the following messages.
Start of original message: I should have waited longer to be able to say this with more credibility, but so promising has been the improvement or indeed cure that I just haven't. Sorry.
I would urge POIS sufferers to get checked for Upper Airways Resistance Syndrome. This is a sleep disorder. Please don't on hearing this dismiss it because you think you sleep well, don't snore, aren't fat etc.
UARS is crucially different to sleep apnea in that it's more insidious and harder to detect and that sufferers are not in general, like those with apnea, loud snoring, obese, thick-necked people. I am slim and in good physical shape, snore only lightly, consider myself to have decent sleep, and certainly don't gasp or gulp like people with apnea might - and but for the recent sleep study I had done, where it showed that I exhibited "respiratory effort" - ie I have to make a slight effort (virtually undetectable to me) every time I inhale through my nose - I wouldn't be here telling you this.
For some reason - perhaps only for me, but probably for others - UARS causes POIS. I have no idea why or how (though there is a documented link between sleep disorders and autoimmune conditions). All I know is that I had POIS pure and simple - I'm not one of those attributing their symptoms to POIS because they sort of matched. I had the whole raft of POIS symptoms down to a tee.
Following my sleep study, a nose and throat specialist inspected my, well, nose and throat, including sending me off for a cat scan. The scan revealed a deviated septum plus (I think) an 'swollen concha', which I'm having an operation to correct next month.
This is the important bit: since I've slept with a nose strip in order to expand my nasal airways my POIS has gone, simply vanished. I've had several Os to prove it, without niacin.
I do not want to give false hope, and appreciate that what causes POIS may vary. But I know of at least one other example of guy ridding himself of POIS through treatment of a sleep disorder, in his case apenea.
So I would urge you at least to consider this as a possibility.
If you read this in future and wonder whether this guy actually got cured long term or if it was another false dawn - which in fairness I still can't completely rule out - then check my subsequent entries. I won't make any if POIS doesn't return, except to advise others if I can. Please email me personally if you wish. Good luck.
-
I should have waited longer to be able to say this with more credibility, but so promising has been the improvement or indeed cure that I just haven't. Sorry.
I would urge POIS sufferers to get checked for Upper Airways Resistance Syndrome. This is a sleep disorder. Please don't on hearing this dismiss it because you think you sleep well, don't snore, aren't fat etc.
UARS is crucially different to sleep apnea in that it's more insidious and harder to detect and that sufferers are not in general, like those with apnea, loud snoring, obese, thick-necked people. I am slim and in good physical shape, snore only lightly, consider myself to have decent sleep, and certainly don't gasp or gulp like people with apnea might - and but for the recent sleep study I had done, where it showed that I exhibited "respiratory effort" - ie I have to make a slight effort (virtually undetectable to me) every time I inhale through my nose - I wouldn't be here telling you this.
For some reason - perhaps only for me, but probably for others - UARS causes POIS. I have no idea why or how (though there is a documented link between sleep disorders and autoimmune conditions). All I know is that I had POIS pure and simple - I'm not one of those attributing their symptoms to POIS because they sort of matched. I had the whole raft of POIS symptoms down to a tee.
Following my sleep study, a nose and throat specialist inspected my, well, nose and throat, including sending me off for a cat scan. The scan revealed a deviated septum plus (I think) an 'swollen concha', which I'm having an operation to correct next month.
This is the important bit: since I've slept with a nose strip in order to expand my nasal airways my POIS has gone, simply vanished. I've had several Os to prove it, without niacin.
I do not want to give false hope, and appreciate that what causes POIS may vary. But I know of at least one other example of guy ridding himself of POIS through treatment of a sleep disorder, in his case apenea.
So I would urge you at least to consider this as a possibility.
If you read this in future and wonder whether this guy actually got cured long term or if it was another false dawn - which in fairness I still can't completely rule out - then check my subsequent entries. I won't make any if POIS doesn't return, except to advise others if I can. Please email me personally if you wish. Good luck.
Thanks for your post and the cautions you express. With respect to the fact that it may not be a cure all for everybody.
The idea sounds interesting actually. I personally couldn't discount the possibility, and on the other hand
it isn't an investigation that implies big risk.
Of course going so far as to have and operation and finding that it may not work, could have a strong depressive
repercussion.
The nose strip could be a first good (and safe) test.
I personally however would have a very difficult time in convincing myself to have sex without niacin.
Perhaps others, for whom niacin doesn't work may want to give it a try.
Even if the nose strip doesn't work, (it could be throat as well, and perhaps more advanced apnia could have the same effect.)
There are positive flow machines that can guarantee apnia free sleep even with the worst of restrictions. As a test prior to any surgery for example.
One doubt I have, is that most of us start POIS within minutes of the orgasm, it can be felt as a flow of
(poison) through the body. This would not be an apnia / upper respiratory restriction type problem.
-
Hi,
It makes a lot of sense to me as I have exactly the same problem. I have a nasal septum deviated ; I had a sleep study that reveal no sleep apnea but I'm really sure sleep is somehow connected to my symtoms. Symtoms happens or disapers at 95% after a nigh of sleep.
I've been trying the nasal strip but Im' not sure it helped...Maybe, maybe not...not 100% anyways.
I'm really considering surgery.
I think it's not my root cause problem ; I presume, when I am in POIS, I'm inflamated and UARS is worsened whatr worsen POIS symtoms after a bad nigh of sleep.
-
Hey I have that two! deviated septum all the way, I havent gone to the doctor to actually get treatment for it because I am too scared to go through with the surgery which aparently has a lengthy recovery period; however if there is actually a chance that it my cure POIS or even reduce POIS symptoms I will go through and do the surgery.
-
Hey I have that two! deviated septum all the way, I havent gone to the doctor to actually get treatment for it because I am too scared to go through with the surgery which aparently has a lengthy recovery period; however if there is actually a chance that it my cure POIS or even reduce POIS symptoms I will go through and do the surgery.
Remember that noone has cured POIS by having the surgery. I don't think anyone that has had the surgery
has even had POIS.
It MAY help POIS getting a better sleep with more oxygen. POIS begins within minutes of sexual stimulation,
whether on has slept or not, so POIS is not caused by UARS
It's possible that the extra swelling casued by POIS worsen UARS, which in turn worsens POIS, just possible.
So at the very least, test with nose patches and/or positive pressure breathing apparatus made for sleep apnya
sufferers before undertaking any surgery that may or may not work.
This is the problem with announcing cures, even when great precaution is taken in the wording of the
announcement.
-
Daveman and others -
I completely agree about caution in announcing cures and it was ill-judged of me to use that word. Having a deviated septum is not uncommon and, naturally, may very well not be a cause of POIS. And I am certainly not calling for anyone to rush to their doctor and demand surgery (which I would have thought 99% wouldn't perform unless there was strong diagnostic reason to).
What I wanted to say is that people experiencing POIS ? especially by the way if they feel a pressure over the bridge of their nose/front of their face in the days after orgasm, which has been one of my (and I know some others?) multiple symptoms ? might be interested in having a simple nose-and-throat check-up, to establish if they have an upper airways blockage.
I say this because UARS seems to be what?s behind my POIS, the latter having practically vanished since I've taken (so far non surgical) steps to deal with UARS. And I very respectfully disagree that UARS couldn't be the cause of POIS. I think caution should be shown just as much in not ruling things out as in gamely proclaiming cures, which I?m a bit guilty of.
For instance I could see a scenario where UARS - which can be hugely biologically disruptive - sets the bodily context and environment for POIS to come about. There is as I say a documented link between sleep disorders and just as apparently very unrelated autoimmune conditions.
All that said, I?m basing this on MY personal experience only. And please regard this as just a theory, nothing proven or as yet validated by other Pois sufferers ? and not a rallying call for surgery.
-
Daveman and others -
I completely agree about caution in announcing cures and it was ill-judged of me to use that word. Having a deviated septum is not uncommon and, naturally, may very well not be a cause of POIS. And I am certainly not calling for anyone to rush to their doctor and demand surgery (which I would have thought 99% wouldn't perform unless there was strong diagnostic reason to).
What I wanted to say is that people experiencing POIS ? especially by the way if they feel a pressure over the bridge of their nose/front of their face in the days after orgasm, which has been one of my (and I know some others?) multiple symptoms ? might be interested in having a simple nose-and-throat check-up, to establish if they have an upper airways blockage.
I say this because UARS seems to be what?s behind my POIS, the latter having practically vanished since I've taken (so far non surgical) steps to deal with UARS. And I very respectfully disagree that UARS couldn't be the cause of POIS. I think caution should be shown just as much in not ruling things out as in gamely proclaiming cures, which I?m a bit guilty of.
For instance I could see a scenario where UARS - which can be hugely biologically disruptive - sets the bodily context and environment for POIS to come about. There is as I say a documented link between sleep disorders and just as apparently very unrelated autoimmune conditions.
All that said, I?m basing this on MY personal experience only. And please regard this as just a theory, nothing proven or as yet validated by other Pois sufferers ? and not a rallying call for surgery.
That's fine, understood.
It's complicated. We all want relief so bad we'll do just about anything.
And certainly UARS can't help POIS!! ;D :(
-
Indeed, Daveman.
(sorry if there are loads of question-marks in the following post - a formatting problem)
Lapoisse ? my advice is, dig out the results of that polysomnography of yours and see if there's any evidence of you exhibiting "respiratory effort" whilst asleep. That's what you'd be looking for here. Having a deviated septum, which is very common, might or might not cause respiratory effort. If it's accompanied by what's termed a 'swollen concha' - try avoiding that phrase in certain parts of South America! - and maybe nose allergies/stuffiness/rhinitis etc, and if you have a partner telling you you make snoring noises from your nose, then chances are that you have a nose-related upper airways obstruction.
And - basing things strictly on my experience - exhibiting respiratory effort whilst asleep can be an underlying cause of POIS. But there are several "maybes" here that you'd do well to properly look into. You basically need to find out whether you have respiratory effort - which by the way needn't be nose-based, indeed it tends to be tongue and throat related. And by the way my nose 'appears' unobstructed. That is to say, if I hadn't had experts conduct measurements and tell me there was an obstruction, I'd never have guessed it myself.
My own improvement owes much more to the fact that I'm forcing myself to SLEEP ON MY SIDE than it does to the nasal strips and spray which I'm using - sorry if that's a contradiction to what I said earlier. Apparently, according to my ENT, the obstruction lies higher up my nose and so can't be helped much by the strips (or spray).
Whilst I may be the only one so far speaking of UARS, it's worth mentioning that there has, historically on this and the NSF forum, been quite a lot of talk of the link between POIS and sleep, including between POIS and sleep apnea (which causes similar symptoms to UARS). There appear to have been several examples, especially recently, of people performing mouth/throat related surgery - removing adenoids etc - in a bid to resolve POIS, and if this is successful then surely the apnea/UARS ? POIS link needs to explored further, since these are precisely the procedures carried out to treat apnea.
Since I?m rambling on like this I might as well, for what it?s worth, add that I think the usefulness of certain foods like fenugreek and garlic etc is down to those foods being alkaline (rather than to them being hypoglycemic). Cutting down on sugar and coffee ? two mayor acidic substances ? dramatically improved my and others? POIS symptoms. There is ? sorry I can?t resist it! ? shed-loads of evidence that sleep apnea and UARS cause acidosis.
-
This website has helped me quite a bit to understand breathing and the importance of limiting it so as to increase CO2 levels (NOT all that DEEP breathing that people think increases oxygen levels. It does the opposite!)
Anyway, check it out and it might help with the UARS, snoring, etc. Here's the specific page on sleeping:
http://www.normalbreathing.com/causes-sleep.php
POIS is not specifically mentioned of course as it's too uncommon.
-
Yet another lengthy post from me - sorry!
Freedom4everyone: very interesting that you should mention this website. A couple of years back I dedicated several months to practicing the Buteyko method and for a while I enjoyed incredible benefits, but sadly those faded and I ended up ditching it. I know however that if I can just reduce my breathing I will, as you say, get infinitely better, but the fact is that save for a glorious 3 month period back in 2011 when I achieved just that and had the best 3 month spell of my life by far, I haven't been able to repeat the feat. Given what I say now regarding UARS, I think Buteyko has lost a little of its relevance since it's so centered on nasal breathing, which is what my obstruction is preventing me from doing properly.
I just wanted to wrap up this theory of mine concerning UARS - to anyone who's interested, now or in future - with a more informed explanation of what for me at least has been the cause of POIS. I do believe this will apply to others, though how many I don't know.
I have an upper airways respiratory obstruction (partial nose blockage) caused by a combination of a deviated septum, an enlarged turbinate and (asymptomatic) rhinitis. I wasn't aware of any of this until I recently had an ENT check-up and a facial CT scan, following a sleep study that showed I exhibited 'respiratory effort').
This upper airways obstruction makes me susceptible to a sleep disorder called Upper Airways Resistance Syndrome (UARS). The symptoms of UARS are eerily like those of POIS (though here I am not referring so much to those POIS sufferers whose symptoms strike immediately post arousal/orgasm but to those like myself whose start the next day, last typically for 3-7 days and then vanish) - namely daytime tiredness, often extreme mental sluggishness/ brain fog, irritability, light and noise sensitivity, fibromyalgia (in my case upper arm and shoulder pain), polyuria especially nocturia etc, and depression and anxiety secondary to this. That's without mentioning perhaps the most important symptom which is a constant pressure across the front of the face/bridge of the nose.
My theory is that...and I know this sounds outlandish, but please hear me out...my theory is that sexual arousal aggravates upper airways blockage, causing UARS and its symptoms (which incidentally have much in common with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and indeed could easily said to be CFS). There is a documented link between nasal congestion and sexual arousal. From the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine: "The turbinates of the nose contain erectile tissue and nasal stuffiness during sexual activity is a well known phenomenon http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1279966/. Other interesting links include http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1914555 orhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinitis#Vasomotor_rhinitis (read first paragraph on vasomotor rhinitis) and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeymoon_rhinitis
Since taking steps to deal with my UARS, my POIS has gone. Factors like lateral (as opposed to supine) sleeping, using nose strips, nasal sprays, avoiding late-in-the-day exercise etc have helped, but the silver bullet seems to be to take Loratadine (Claritin) just before bedtime (it must be then). I'm having surgery to fix my deviated septum and turbinates next week. My recommendation, if you feel any of this might be of relevance, is not to experiment with Claritin or self-treat UARS but to visit a doctor and see if you have an upper airways/rhinitis issue.
I am, by the way, one of those for whom Niacin really worked. I speculate that ths is because of its vasodilatory effect which, so long as the flush happens at a set time before the orgasm, somehow protects the nose (and other parts of the body with erectile tissue) from subsequent arousal and/or orgasm induced inflammation.
Incidentally, if you have your latest - or any - blood test to hand, take a look at the eosinophil count. Others with POIS, and myself, have reported high counts, which are consistent with rhinitis - though normal counts don't discount it either.
I want to sign off on a philosophical note. I firmly believe that the answer (or answers) to POIS lie, if not on this page, then on these pages in general (of the Forum, I mean). Maybe its because I'm a (undistinguished) scientist myself, but I think that more than outside scientific thinking and rigor what's needed is essentially for someone to pour over these pages from start to finish to identify links, patterns etc. We are the experts on POIS and we hold the answers.
-
Sorry for yet another post by moi...
Just want to confirm that the surgery to fix my deviated septum and enlarged turbinate has indeed rid me of POIS. I'm not feeling all too great, though, since I'm in the middle of tapering off that demon drug venlafaxine, which judging by the withdrawals I'm getting my body's completely hooked on.
I do think this is of relevance to other pois people. Sinusitis, rhinitis, constriction of nasal airways (perhaps with one nostril more obstructed than the other)... these are are all critical buzzwords for me as explanatory factors behind UARS, which I believe orgasm exacerbates. I would recommend people being conscious of nasal airflow/respiratory resistance at night and seeing whether harmless non-invasive steps like using nasal saline solution, breath-easy nasal strips or - dare I say it - trying a Sudafed/other tablet decongestant at bedtime may help.
I'll bung in the perfunctory line about this not necessarily being a cure for everyone...but I kind of hope someone checks this out. I don't see why I should be so different from other pois people. This is why after all, to my mind, POIS can have seasonal variations, can go away or be very different whilst on holiday, why it primarily for many people sets in only after at least one night's sleep, why nasal resistance issues are endemic among poisers....not speaking for all poisers...but surely for more than just myself.
-
Sorry for yet another post by moi...
Just want to confirm that the surgery to fix my deviated septum and enlarged turbinate has indeed rid me of POIS. I'm not feeling all too great, though, since I'm in the middle of tapering off that demon drug venlafaxine, which judging by the withdrawals I'm getting my body's completely hooked on.
I do think this is of relevance to other pois people. Sinusitis, rhinitis, constriction of nasal airways (perhaps with one nostril more obstructed than the other)... these are are all critical buzzwords for me as explanatory factors behind UARS, which I believe orgasm exacerbates. I would recommend people being conscious of nasal airflow/respiratory resistance at night and seeing whether harmless non-invasive steps like using nasal saline solution, breath-easy nasal strips or - dare I say it - trying a Sudafed/other tablet decongestant at bedtime may help.
I'll bung in the perfunctory line about this not necessarily being a cure for everyone...but I kind of hope someone checks this out. I don't see why I should be so different from other pois people. This is why after all, to my mind, POIS can have seasonal variations, can go away or be very different whilst on holiday, why it primarily for many people sets in only after at least one night's sleep, why nasal resistance issues are endemic among poisers....not speaking for all poisers...but surely for more than just myself.
This is interesting.
I've needed to use a cortisone Nasal spray for about 20 years, if not more, to help with Sinusitis. The condition is always exacerbated by POIS. 3 days after O, much more swelling and discomfort in my sinuses.
I had 3 operations about 15 years ago, to fix my deviated septum and blocked sinuses also. I had broken my nose a few times playing rugby as a younger guy. The operations did help reduce chronic headaches, but did not fix overall discomforts.
I find sudafed is good at symptom reduction, but don't want to be taking meds too much. May try one before bed now, or the nasal strips, when in worst of POIS, so thanks for that tip.
At the moment it looks like I will always have to keep using the Cortisone spray. Apart from the cost and concern I may grow breasts (from cortisone) if I reach 80, I can live with it.
Other things that help my sinus discomfort now is the NeilMed Sinus rinse. Available in pharmacies here. It's a plastic bottle, with a PH balance sachet. It's easy to use and you guide the pure water up one nostril and the lukewarm water flows though the sinuses and flows out the other nostril. Sorry if you are eating your lunch roll reading this ! I use this now every couple of weeks to clean any potential pollens out of sinuses. POIS/ Orgasm is the worst offender though in exacerbating the symnptoms, im my experience.
Wondering if operation has cured anyone elses sinusitis/POIS. Maybe it's a better and more successful surgical procedure nowadays.
-
Yet another lengthy post from me - sorry!
Freedom4everyone: very interesting that you should mention this website. A couple of years back I dedicated several months to practicing the Buteyko method and for a while I enjoyed incredible benefits, but sadly those faded and I ended up ditching it. I know however that if I can just reduce my breathing I will, as you say, get infinitely better, but the fact is that save for a glorious 3 month period back in 2011 when I achieved just that and had the best 3 month spell of my life by far, I haven't been able to repeat the feat. Given what I say now regarding UARS, I think Buteyko has lost a little of its relevance since it's so centered on nasal breathing, which is what my obstruction is preventing me from doing properly.
I just wanted to wrap up this theory of mine concerning UARS - to anyone who's interested, now or in future - with a more informed explanation of what for me at least has been the cause of POIS. I do believe this will apply to others, though how many I don't know.
I have an upper airways respiratory obstruction (partial nose blockage) caused by a combination of a deviated septum, an enlarged turbinate and (asymptomatic) rhinitis. I wasn't aware of any of this until I recently had an ENT check-up and a facial CT scan, following a sleep study that showed I exhibited 'respiratory effort').
This upper airways obstruction makes me susceptible to a sleep disorder called Upper Airways Resistance Syndrome (UARS). The symptoms of UARS are eerily like those of POIS (though here I am not referring so much to those POIS sufferers whose symptoms strike immediately post arousal/orgasm but to those like myself whose start the next day, last typically for 3-7 days and then vanish) - namely daytime tiredness, often extreme mental sluggishness/ brain fog, irritability, light and noise sensitivity, fibromyalgia (in my case upper arm and shoulder pain), polyuria especially nocturia etc, and depression and anxiety secondary to this. That's without mentioning perhaps the most important symptom which is a constant pressure across the front of the face/bridge of the nose.
My theory is that...and I know this sounds outlandish, but please hear me out...my theory is that sexual arousal aggravates upper airways blockage, causing UARS and its symptoms (which incidentally have much in common with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and indeed could easily said to be CFS). There is a documented link between nasal congestion and sexual arousal. From the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine: "The turbinates of the nose contain erectile tissue and nasal stuffiness during sexual activity is a well known phenomenon http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1279966/. Other interesting links include http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1914555 orhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinitis#Vasomotor_rhinitis (read first paragraph on vasomotor rhinitis) and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeymoon_rhinitis
Since taking steps to deal with my UARS, my POIS has gone. Factors like lateral (as opposed to supine) sleeping, using nose strips, nasal sprays, avoiding late-in-the-day exercise etc have helped, but the silver bullet seems to be to take Loratadine (Claritin) just before bedtime (it must be then). I'm having surgery to fix my deviated septum and turbinates next week. My recommendation, if you feel any of this might be of relevance, is not to experiment with Claritin or self-treat UARS but to visit a doctor and see if you have an upper airways/rhinitis issue.
I am, by the way, one of those for whom Niacin really worked. I speculate that ths is because of its vasodilatory effect which, so long as the flush happens at a set time before the orgasm, somehow protects the nose (and other parts of the body with erectile tissue) from subsequent arousal and/or orgasm induced inflammation.
Incidentally, if you have your latest - or any - blood test to hand, take a look at the eosinophil count. Others with POIS, and myself, have reported high counts, which are consistent with rhinitis - though normal counts don't discount it either.
I want to sign off on a philosophical note. I firmly believe that the answer (or answers) to POIS lie, if not on this page, then on these pages in general (of the Forum, I mean). Maybe its because I'm a (undistinguished) scientist myself, but I think that more than outside scientific thinking and rigor what's needed is essentially for someone to pour over these pages from start to finish to identify links, patterns etc. We are the experts on POIS and we hold the answers.
(From Colm)
Good day!
I just felt it worthwhile resurrecting this older topic on the "Buteyko breathing method".
Engaged with this topic for one of my kids who had respiratory and hay fever issues and it has helped her a lot.
As one of my longer term POIS related symptoms physical symptoms has been chronic sinusitis, I tried it myself. Along with continuing to use cortisone nasal spray and netipot kind of cleanser, I have been actually using the Buteyko method now for 6 months with good to very good results on keeping brain fog at bay and sinuses clearer. Much better for me than meditation (I was a long time meditator) to keep me calmer and relaxed.
I have particularly been impressed by the assistance it has given me toward recovery in sports performance - cycling and gym.
There actually has been recent structured research conducted on it's positive applicability to asthma.
I offer below information as one of the basic intros to the methods so you can evaluate. I do NOT recommend or have any relationship to nor do I propose this persons who introduced it here - just the links gives you an overview if you hadn't heard of it. Don't buy into any 'oversell' please you encounter. There are many providers who teach this method, and you may want to look into and evaluate it in some way their credentials for yourself, even if you want to evaluate improving your recovery in sports.
Anyone remember the "Bohr Effect" at school - relates to Oxygen and Carbon dioxide usage in the body, proposal being that people breathe too much (clinically known as chronic hyperventilation), altering the natural levels of gases in the blood.
I have my own theory that it could positively impact the "Blood Brain barrier pathways and the Vagus Nerve. My depression @ POIS phase and beyond has decreased through building this into my other personalised anti-POIS repertoires including diet/nutrition/supplementation/very occasional talk-therapy and also exercise. My gut has healed a lot through these.
GENERAL OVERVIEW
The Buteyko Method involves:
- Learning how to unblock the nose using breath hold exercises
- Switching from mouth breathing to nasal breathing
- Relaxation of the diaphragm and creating a mild air shortage
- Making small and easy lifestyle changes to assist with better long-term breathing methods
- Measuring your breathing volume and tracking your progress using a special breath hold test called the Control Pause
The level of carbon dioxide in the body determines the length of time the breath can be held; a higher level of carbon dioxide corresponds to a longer breath hold. Increasing levels of carbon dioxide in the blood helps to reduce the symptoms of over-breathing and lower breathing volume to a normal level. A lower breathing volume also assist with general health & sports performance
Short Overview video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAmrakBpZYk
The typical steps exercise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gbvkqRSd9Q
There is much other stuff on You Tube & Google about it.
Like all holisic treatments, my experience is you need to commit to a practice and it isn't something that on it's own has major effect, more as a complement other things we might try, everyone's different.
All the best,
Colm
-
I was suffering from severe septum deviation as well severe sleep apnoea and had the surgery performed last year (along with pharyngoplasty). Although the respiratory problems have been almost 100% resolved, all POIS symptoms remain and are as intense as before the operation, as far as I'm concerned.
-
I have been in contact with poisperson and apparently the surgery did not changed his pois symptoms.
-
Sorry to hear that.
-
Yet another lengthy post from me - sorry!
Freedom4everyone: very interesting that you should mention this website. A couple of years back I dedicated several months to practicing the Buteyko method and for a while I enjoyed incredible benefits, but sadly those faded and I ended up ditching it. I know however that if I can just reduce my breathing I will, as you say, get infinitely better, but the fact is that save for a glorious 3 month period back in 2011 when I achieved just that and had the best 3 month spell of my life by far, I haven't been able to repeat the feat. Given what I say now regarding UARS, I think Buteyko has lost a little of its relevance since it's so centered on nasal breathing, which is what my obstruction is preventing me from doing properly.
I just wanted to wrap up this theory of mine concerning UARS - to anyone who's interested, now or in future - with a more informed explanation of what for me at least has been the cause of POIS. I do believe this will apply to others, though how many I don't know.
I have an upper airways respiratory obstruction (partial nose blockage) caused by a combination of a deviated septum, an enlarged turbinate and (asymptomatic) rhinitis. I wasn't aware of any of this until I recently had an ENT check-up and a facial CT scan, following a sleep study that showed I exhibited 'respiratory effort').
This upper airways obstruction makes me susceptible to a sleep disorder called Upper Airways Resistance Syndrome (UARS). The symptoms of UARS are eerily like those of POIS (though here I am not referring so much to those POIS sufferers whose symptoms strike immediately post arousal/orgasm but to those like myself whose start the next day, last typically for 3-7 days and then vanish) - namely daytime tiredness, often extreme mental sluggishness/ brain fog, irritability, light and noise sensitivity, fibromyalgia (in my case upper arm and shoulder pain), polyuria especially nocturia etc, and depression and anxiety secondary to this. That's without mentioning perhaps the most important symptom which is a constant pressure across the front of the face/bridge of the nose.
My theory is that...and I know this sounds outlandish, but please hear me out...my theory is that sexual arousal aggravates upper airways blockage, causing UARS and its symptoms (which incidentally have much in common with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and indeed could easily said to be CFS). There is a documented link between nasal congestion and sexual arousal. From the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine: "The turbinates of the nose contain erectile tissue and nasal stuffiness during sexual activity is a well known phenomenon http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1279966/. Other interesting links include http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1914555 orhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinitis#Vasomotor_rhinitis (read first paragraph on vasomotor rhinitis) and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeymoon_rhinitis
Since taking steps to deal with my UARS, my POIS has gone. Factors like lateral (as opposed to supine) sleeping, using nose strips, nasal sprays, avoiding late-in-the-day exercise etc have helped, but the silver bullet seems to be to take Loratadine (Claritin) just before bedtime (it must be then). I'm having surgery to fix my deviated septum and turbinates next week. My recommendation, if you feel any of this might be of relevance, is not to experiment with Claritin or self-treat UARS but to visit a doctor and see if you have an upper airways/rhinitis issue.
I am, by the way, one of those for whom Niacin really worked. I speculate that ths is because of its vasodilatory effect which, so long as the flush happens at a set time before the orgasm, somehow protects the nose (and other parts of the body with erectile tissue) from subsequent arousal and/or orgasm induced inflammation.
Incidentally, if you have your latest - or any - blood test to hand, take a look at the eosinophil count. Others with POIS, and myself, have reported high counts, which are consistent with rhinitis - though normal counts don't discount it either.
I want to sign off on a philosophical note. I firmly believe that the answer (or answers) to POIS lie, if not on this page, then on these pages in general (of the Forum, I mean). Maybe its because I'm a (undistinguished) scientist myself, but I think that more than outside scientific thinking and rigor what's needed is essentially for someone to pour over these pages from start to finish to identify links, patterns etc. We are the experts on POIS and we hold the answers.
During edging/arousal/after O it feels as breathing isn't as deep and sometimes during edging nose gets stuffy.
-
poisperson, what you write sounds really interesting.
Are you still cured in 2021?
POISse writes that you are not, but would be interesting to hear it directly. :-[
EDIT: Oops, you edited the post in 2018
Linking sleep apnea thread:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3078.0
-
Yet another lengthy post from me - sorry!
Freedom4everyone: very interesting that you should mention this website. A couple of years back I dedicated several months to practicing the Buteyko method and for a while I enjoyed incredible benefits, but sadly those faded and I ended up ditching it. I know however that if I can just reduce my breathing I will, as you say, get infinitely better, but the fact is that save for a glorious 3 month period back in 2011 when I achieved just that and had the best 3 month spell of my life by far, I haven't been able to repeat the feat. Given what I say now regarding UARS, I think Buteyko has lost a little of its relevance since it's so centered on nasal breathing, which is what my obstruction is preventing me from doing properly.
I just wanted to wrap up this theory of mine concerning UARS - to anyone who's interested, now or in future - with a more informed explanation of what for me at least has been the cause of POIS. I do believe this will apply to others, though how many I don't know.
I have an upper airways respiratory obstruction (partial nose blockage) caused by a combination of a deviated septum, an enlarged turbinate and (asymptomatic) rhinitis. I wasn't aware of any of this until I recently had an ENT check-up and a facial CT scan, following a sleep study that showed I exhibited 'respiratory effort').
This upper airways obstruction makes me susceptible to a sleep disorder called Upper Airways Resistance Syndrome (UARS). The symptoms of UARS are eerily like those of POIS (though here I am not referring so much to those POIS sufferers whose symptoms strike immediately post arousal/orgasm but to those like myself whose start the next day, last typically for 3-7 days and then vanish) - namely daytime tiredness, often extreme mental sluggishness/ brain fog, irritability, light and noise sensitivity, fibromyalgia (in my case upper arm and shoulder pain), polyuria especially nocturia etc, and depression and anxiety secondary to this. That's without mentioning perhaps the most important symptom which is a constant pressure across the front of the face/bridge of the nose.
My theory is that...and I know this sounds outlandish, but please hear me out...my theory is that sexual arousal aggravates upper airways blockage, causing UARS and its symptoms (which incidentally have much in common with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and indeed could easily said to be CFS). There is a documented link between nasal congestion and sexual arousal. From the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine: "The turbinates of the nose contain erectile tissue and nasal stuffiness during sexual activity is a well known phenomenon http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1279966/. Other interesting links include http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1914555 orhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinitis#Vasomotor_rhinitis (read first paragraph on vasomotor rhinitis) and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeymoon_rhinitis
Since taking steps to deal with my UARS, my POIS has gone. Factors like lateral (as opposed to supine) sleeping, using nose strips, nasal sprays, avoiding late-in-the-day exercise etc have helped, but the silver bullet seems to be to take Loratadine (Claritin) just before bedtime (it must be then). I'm having surgery to fix my deviated septum and turbinates next week. My recommendation, if you feel any of this might be of relevance, is not to experiment with Claritin or self-treat UARS but to visit a doctor and see if you have an upper airways/rhinitis issue.
I am, by the way, one of those for whom Niacin really worked. I speculate that ths is because of its vasodilatory effect which, so long as the flush happens at a set time before the orgasm, somehow protects the nose (and other parts of the body with erectile tissue) from subsequent arousal and/or orgasm induced inflammation.
Incidentally, if you have your latest - or any - blood test to hand, take a look at the eosinophil count. Others with POIS, and myself, have reported high counts, which are consistent with rhinitis - though normal counts don't discount it either.
I want to sign off on a philosophical note. I firmly believe that the answer (or answers) to POIS lie, if not on this page, then on these pages in general (of the Forum, I mean). Maybe its because I'm a (undistinguished) scientist myself, but I think that more than outside scientific thinking and rigor what's needed is essentially for someone to pour over these pages from start to finish to identify links, patterns etc. We are the experts on POIS and we hold the answers.
I want to go a doctor for my turbinates. There is a new method: the Celon Method. Less painfull.
-
I had a septoplasty and turbinectomy many years ago. I currently have pretty bad CFS and POIS. Not sure that means anything, just a data point.
-
I had a septoplasty and turbinectomy many years ago. I currently have pretty bad CFS and POIS. Not sure that means anything, just a data point.
My boyfriend poiser, has problems with breathing. With or with out pois. He says "he feels bloked breathing" Maybe there is a conexion But I do not know if it is a consecuence of pois or something else
-
I don't know if it's the popular spongy meat and deviated septum you're talking about, but I want to say that I remembered that long before the Poison symptoms appeared, I also had to have a medical evaluation, as I was very short of breath before sleeping and changed the letter "b" to "p" when speaking.
However, when I did the evaluation, before the surgery, the doctor told me that I had nothing and that it was not necessary to do the same.
After approximately 4 years without gluten and treating anxiety, today I have no symptoms of shortness of breath. Even after the O!