POISCENTER
POIS Cause/Treatment Discussions => General Alternative Causes and Treatments of POIS => Topic started by: CharlesB on June 02, 2020, 10:39:48 AM
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Hi all,
I am a long time lurker and just joined the forum. I was recently diagnosed with H Pylori after a functional medicine work up to see if we could figure out the cause of my POIS symptoms.
I decided to try a supplemental approach to treat the h pylori instead of antibiotics (oregano oil, mastic gum, probiotics, pepto bismol). During the second week of this treatment, my pois went away completely (was able to O every day 100% relief of all symptoms). As soon as I stopped taking the pepto bismol, everything came roaring back. Note: H Pylori antigen rest came back negative after treatment.
I have recreated the two week regimen without the pepto, and had no relief.
My thought is that, at least for me, my POIS is caused by some massive gut dysbiosis, and that the pepto coating my stomach stopped a cytokine response to whatever is going on.
Obviously it is not a good idea for me to continue to take Pepto Bismol for any extended period, so for now I am trying a biofilm busting protocol (NAC for a week, and then some botanicals antibiotic type stuff.
I figured I?d at least share, as the pepto bismol completely removing symptoms (after a week of taking 3x daily) is a clue to something, I just don?t know what.
Background: POIS for 2 years, symptoms are extreme neck tension, severe irritability, sleep disturbances/waking up gasping for air, swollen glands under both ears, and brain fog
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CharlesB, welcome to the forum!
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Good to hear it works.
When you took it were you in POIS state?
How old are you? When you noticed symptoms? When you realized O gives it? When you got POIS was anything different in life, stress, injury, pro/antibiotics etc.?
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CharlesB, welcome to the forum!
Thanks!
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Good to hear it works.
When you took it were you in POIS state?
How old are you? When you noticed symptoms? When you realized O gives it? When you got POIS was anything different in life, stress, injury, pro/antibiotics etc.?
I took it when not in POIS state (I have to stay abstinent to stay out of POIS - even moderate arousal will set it off). When I had O the second week, which would normally ruin my life for the next 4 days, nothing happened.
I am early 30s, I first noticed symptoms 2 years ago, and noticed about 30 minutes after O I had trouble concentrating and was very irritable/angry, and got more tense and brain fog throughout the day (and that night had horrible sleep and lucid nightmares/gasping for breath). Night is usually the worst for me.
My theory is that about 4 months before this night I had an emergency surgery followed by two types of antibiotics (one gave me bad symptoms after three days, and then they switched me to another one for two weeks). I think that threw my gut out of whack, and I remember having the severe irritability after O getting progressively worse up until that first really bad day, but I didn?t put 2 and 2 together.
Other weird things: Vitamin D blood level is deficient, but when I have even 1000 I/U of D supplement, I get full POIS symptoms. No idea why. Sunlight exposure does not have the same effect.
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I should mention what I?ve tried unsuccessfully:
Benadryl
Vitamin B Supplements
Paleo diet (tried for over a month with no relief)
Neurofeedback (no effect)
CBD oil - helps a little, but occasionally makes night symptoms paradoxically worse
Abstinence - works great until I get aroused, which is more difficult not to do the longer I am abstinent
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Interesting. Which Pepto are you taking - tablets or liquid or ? And are you now only taking the Pepto, or also some of the other supplements. Also have you tried taking the Pepto only before O as opposed to daily?
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Interesting. Which Pepto are you taking - tablets or liquid or ? And are you now only taking the Pepto, or also some of the other supplements. Also have you tried taking the Pepto only before O as opposed to daily?
I was taking 2 chewable tablets, 3x daily during the H Pylori protocol (2 weeks total). From what I?ve read, long term usage is not advised without talking to your doctor as the bismuth can build up and cause neurotoxicity, so continuous usage is not an option for me. During that two weeks I had no POIS symptoms though.
This is literally the only substance/supplement that has made a dent in my POIS over many failed experiments, so I look at it as a valuable clue.
I recently tried some after O, and it mitigated the symptoms a bit but not much, which leads me to believe that it needs to be coating my stomach prior to O in order to ameliorate a systemic bodily reaction to something imbalanced in my gut (that?s my theory anyway)
Currently I?m not so much thinking of this as a long term solution, and I don?t want to take it every time. It seems to me that it is a clue of what is causing my POIS, and I?m hoping that some re-balancing of my gut with biofilm disruptors and antimicrobials + probiotics will have lasting effects.
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(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81HFwFOzgPL._AC_SX425_.jpg)(https://img.favpng.com/24/3/21/question-mark-computer-icons-exclamation-mark-clip-art-png-favpng-nRn7gX91Ln9Ez3mDbe3XDrHqJ.jpg)
Can it work?
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Just to be clear, did you ever have a successful use of Pepto alone to eliminate your POIS or are you just assuming it was the Pepto that works because the stack without Pepto didn't?
Did you try taking it just one time before orgasm? Or do you have to take it for 2 weeks or 1 week (sorry your post says both) for it to be effective?
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Just to be clear, did you ever have a successful use of Pepto alone to eliminate your POIS or are you just assuming it was the Pepto that works because the stack without Pepto didn't?
Did you try taking it just one time before orgasm? Or do you have to take it for 2 weeks or 1 week (sorry your post says both) for it to be effective?
I took the pepto for two full weeks, and the first time I tried to O was at the beginning of the second week. Hence, two weeks of pepto, one week of no POIS symptoms.
It is a fair point though that you make; to truly do my due diligence and definitively say it was the pepto bismol, I would have to undergo that experiment again separately (ie one week of pepto alone and then try O on the second week while continuing to take it 3x daily). Granted if it was an unexpected synergistic effect from the pepto bismol, mastic, oregano oil, and probiotics that caused the relief, it would still lead me to the same conclusion - try to fix my gut.
That being said, I am comfortable in sharing an educated guess that I believe the relief to be from the pepto bismol, given that I had a control for my experiment, the other ingredients in concert had literally no effect on my POIS, and that I felt overall better than I have in along time each time I would take the pepto bismol (like a weird body calmness that I am not accustomed to).
Long story short, I just wanted to share what I believe lead to the only symptom relief I?ve had for two years, some context surrounding that, and the reason for my hypothesis, in hopes that this information might be helpful to someone on this forum - take from it what you will :)
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(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81HFwFOzgPL._AC_SX425_.jpg)
Yep, that is exactly what I took.
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Thanks, CharlesB...the question mark...
(https://img.favpng.com/24/3/21/question-mark-computer-icons-exclamation-mark-clip-art-png-favpng-nRn7gX91Ln9Ez3mDbe3XDrHqJ.jpg)
...is what I placed after the PB graphic to see if PB is really a good POIS treatment. I think that you already indicated that it’s not a good idea to take it for more than 2 weeks. And we do not know which of Quantum’s POIS sub-types Pepto Bismol would best fit.
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Granted if it was an unexpected synergistic effect from the pepto bismol, mastic, oregano oil, and probiotics that caused the relief, it would still lead me to the same conclusion - try to fix my gut.
The reason your health care professional had you take Pepto bismal with thst H Pylori stack is because of it's synergistic effect. So I do think it's possible that Pepto bismal alone wouldn't stop your POIS in the same manner as it did in the stack. It would be an interesting experiment.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismuth_subsalicylate#Mechanism_of_action
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Granted if it was an unexpected synergistic effect from the pepto bismol, mastic, oregano oil, and probiotics that caused the relief, it would still lead me to the same conclusion - try to fix my gut.
The reason your health care professional had you take Pepto bismal with thst H Pylori stack is because of it's synergistic effect. So I do think it's possible that Pepto bismal alone wouldn't stop your POIS in the same manner as it did in the stack. It would be an interesting experiment.
I?m going to be a pain and both agree and disagree :) - a synergistic effect against h pylori does not necessarily correlate to a synergistic against POIS (and it eliminated my H Pylori for good, but the POIS remains). To your point though, my control did not completely rule that out. I could maybe try a smaller period (is three days with pepto and then O on day 4 while still taking it), as I really don?t want to take it for two full weeks this close to already taking substantial quantities of it.
Per Muon?s link on the mechanism of action, apparently by itself pepto bismol has anti-inflammatory properties in the gut, and I,ve read elsewhere that it costs the stomach. Part of my thought is that by calming the stomach, it either a.) has a beneficial affect on the vagus nerve (which may also explain how calm I felt each time I took it), or b.) is stopping a cytokine response based on gut dysbiosis.
Either way, I will report back after trying the next step in my gut protocol, which frankly would be my next step regardless of the null or alternative hypothesis regarding the pepto bismol (NAC 2x daily for biofilm for one week, followed by supplements to kill bacteria).
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Anti-inflammatory effect AND anti-microbial. That could be an important part of your success.
Pitz AM, Park GW, Lee D, et. al. Antimicrobial Activity of Bismuth Subsalicylate on Clostridium difficile, Escherichia coli O157:H7, Norovirus, and Other Common Enteric Pathogens. Gut Microbes. 2015;6(2):93-100.
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https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2301.msg34654#msg34654
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Anti-inflammatory effect AND anti-microbial. That could be an important part of your success.
Pitz AM, Park GW, Lee D, et. al. Antimicrobial Activity of Bismuth Subsalicylate on Clostridium difficile, Escherichia coli O157:H7, Norovirus, and Other Common Enteric Pathogens. Gut Microbes. 2015;6(2):93-100.
Definitely agree that is a possibility. My argument is that the speed with which the symptoms returned upon ceasing the pepto bismol (immediately), makes me lean towards a protective effect. Could be wrong though, and incidentally, pepto bismol has antimicrobial properties itself.
For the record, the next thing my doc wants me to try after the week of NAC biofilm disruption is two-plus weeks of Biocidin (not plugging it - no idea if it works), and I?m vacillating between that and black seed oil, as the latter has antimicrobial, anti-biofilm (at least in vitro - link below), and anti-inflammatory properties - so to your point, if that combination is the key, it might be more effective, especially after initial biofilm disruption.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3095572/
If the Biocidin doesn?t work, then my plan is to recreate the entire experiment again with a week of NAC + two weeks black seed oil (trying to be as regimented as possible).
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https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2301.msg34654#msg34654
Very interesting Muon - good find. My functional doc thinks it is a Mast Cell related, but thinks that gut dysbiosis is causing the mast cell response. I?m really hoping they are right.
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IronFeather had colitis. It's being used for colitis and diarrhea. I wonder how she responds to the stuff.
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I can vouch for black seed oil as the most effective natural anti-histamine I've used. Clears my sinuses right out and is effective in reducing the aches I get from eating high histamine foods. I'd take it daily if only it didn't give me vivid bad dreams that leave me stressed out in the morning.q
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I didn't find black seed oil all that helpful - maybe a minor improvement.
Interestingly, my regular occasional acid reflux is much, much worse the morning after an O - so maybe I'll try the Pepto. I do wonder if you could just take it as a prepack instead of an everyday medication.
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I didn't find black seed oil all that helpful - maybe a minor improvement.
Interestingly, my regular occasional acid reflux is much, much worse the morning after an O - so maybe I'll try the Pepto. I do wonder if you could just take it as a prepack instead of an everyday medication.
Just curious - for the black seed oil how much did you take and for how long? My thought was three times daily (I have the gelcaps) for two weeks straight (if the biocidin experiment doesn?t work). I?m wondering if the amount and the duration are required at a high enough threshold to make a meaningful change to the microbiota.
Just want to make the distinction that I?m coming at this from the angle of attempting to fix an underlying intestinal imbalance, so the dosage and duration may be different than for taking it for symptom relief right before or after O.
Also I am taking kefir with all of this - from everything I?ve read, probiotics are helpful during any kind of antimicrobial regimen.
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I can vouch for black seed oil as the most effective natural anti-histamine I've used. Clears my sinuses right out and is effective in reducing the aches I get from eating high histamine foods. I'd take it daily if only it didn't give me vivid bad dreams that leave me stressed out in the morning.q
Good to know, thanks!
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I've tried a couple brands of black seed oil - unfortunately don't remember offhand, but one seemed mildly helpful and one didn't seem to do anything. I experimented with taking once per day or three times per day. I've been trying to fix underlying problems (POIS is only one of my issues - general muscular weakness and constant brain fog is a bigger problem for me).
Right now I'm trying mostly the immune system protocol from the other thread here. Just into my second cycle so we'll see.
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Actualy i think that this action of antyprostagladins-antiinflamatory- antibacteriall, binding toxins is crucilal
for pois, this pepto has small antacid potention:
And by the way, i did remeber in the past that some members
cured theirs pois by this product.
Stimulation of absorption of fluids and electrolytes by the intestinal wall (antisecretory action)
As a salicylate, reducing inflammation/irritation of stomach and intestinal lining through inhibition of prostaglandin G/H synthase 1/2
Reduction in hypermotility of the stomach
Binding of toxins produced by Escherichia coli
Bactericidal action of a number of its subcomponents, including salicylic acid[14]
Bactericidal action via a so-called oligodynamic effect in which small amounts of heavy metals such as bismuth damage many different bacteria species.
Weak antacid properties
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Any updates on this CharlesB?
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Update
I would like to report that I have had success of late. Previously I had success with taurine, but lately I tried Pepto Bismo. I took it at least an hour before O and had zero symptoms. This repeated multiple times over a few weeks. I am wondering if Pois is related to an unusual post sex histamine release. I can' t imagine it being something else that prevented Pois symptoms, unless I was suddenly cured somehow. I highly doubt that! I have been taking taurine on occasion for sleep but I doubt that helped unless it can build up in the system, seems unlikely. Anyone else try this besides CharlesB?
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John21, great to see you again!
(Everyone, John21 was the first POISer to ever post on a POIS internet group.
In 2007).
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Update
I would like to report that I have had success of late. Previously I had success with taurine, but lately I tried Pepto Bismo. I took it at least an hour before O and had zero symptoms. This repeated multiple times over a few weeks. I am wondering if Pois is related to an unusual post sex histamine release. I can' t imagine it being something else that prevented Pois symptoms, unless I was suddenly cured somehow. I highly doubt that! I have been taking taurine on occasion for sleep but I doubt that helped unless it can build up in the system, seems unlikely. Anyone else try this besides CharlesB?
Whoa. Is it the chewable tablets? How many and how long before O?
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Any updates on this CharlesB?
Haven?t had much time to update lately but here goes:
1.) Black seed oil didn?t do anything for me at all.
2.) I did an experiment again with just pepto (chewables) and it worked for about four days straight (no symptoms), and then seemed to lose it?s effectiveness quite a bit after that. That was about a month ago.
3.) This week I had an O and got desperate when the symptoms started (I had a big day the next day), and I tried pepto post orgasm and it knocked the effects down significantly.
Long story short, pepto bismol is the only thing I?ve found that helps me in the slightest. I have an appointment with a new integrative Dr. tomorrow and I?m hoping she?ll have some ideas or at least order a boatload of tests (I want to get my parathyroid checked out, as I am vitamin D deficient, but taking a d3 supplement gives me near full strength POIS symptoms. At least it is a clue).
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Update
I would like to report that I have had success of late. Previously I had success with taurine, but lately I tried Pepto Bismo. I took it at least an hour before O and had zero symptoms. This repeated multiple times over a few weeks. I am wondering if Pois is related to an unusual post sex histamine release. I can' t imagine it being something else that prevented Pois symptoms, unless I was suddenly cured somehow. I highly doubt that! I have been taking taurine on occasion for sleep but I doubt that helped unless it can build up in the system, seems unlikely. Anyone else try this besides CharlesB?
Glad to hear the Pepto helped you out! Any win is a big win when dealing with this POIS garbage. I?m going to ask my doctor tomorrow if there are any long term concerns if taking it intermittently over time (like once or twice a week), as I know that the bismuth can accumulate in the body if taken every single day.
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Glad to hear the Pepto helped you out! Any win is a big win when dealing with this POIS garbage. I?m going to ask my doctor tomorrow if there are any long term concerns if taking it intermittently over time (like once or twice a week), as I know that the bismuth can accumulate in the body if taken every single day.
I am curious to know what he says about that. If this works for others we might have some data for understanding the root of this problem. Maybe histamine doesn't make sense, I misunderstood a post in this thread that was actually the benefits of black seed oil. I see I spelled it wrong, there is an "l" at the end, it is Bismol. The one that I took was a liquid no-name brand of bismuth, found it in a dollar store. I took one adult dose as measured with the measuring cup that comes with it.
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Long story short, pepto bismol is the only thing I?ve found that helps me in the slightest. I have an appointment with a new integrative Dr. tomorrow and I?m hoping she?ll have some ideas or at least order a boatload of tests (I want to get my parathyroid checked out, as I am vitamin D deficient, but taking a d3 supplement gives me near full strength POIS symptoms. At least it is a clue).
Again vit D deficiency. Researchers aren't picking up on this, it drives me nuts.
Anyway we have vit D poll: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=257.0
I've heard of people getting worse on vit D before, I think they discuss the reason for that here: https://mpkb.org/home/patients/protocol_overview
Deficiency also seen in MCAS:
"...vitamine D deficiency by laboratoria criteria is often present in MCAS [192], though often with no clear correlation to clinical effects..."
Presentation, Diagnosis, and Management of Mast Cell Activation Syndrome (https://www.jillcarnahan.com/downloads/MCAS-Afrin.pdf)
We have a thread about testing and parameter suggestions here: https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3207.0
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If this works for others we might have some data for understanding the root of this problem.
Seems to be very broad spectrum:
increasing the amount of fluid your intestines absorb
reducing inflammation and overactivity of your intestines
preventing your body?s release of a chemical called prostaglandin that causes inflammation
blocking toxins produced by bacteria such as E. coli
killing other bacteria that cause diarrhea
https://www.healthline.com/health/diarrhea/pepto-bismol
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Happy to read you have some success.
I had gastritis during 2 years and now it's ok.
I never tries pepto bismol but only classical anti-acis (omeprazol, gaviscon...)
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preventing your body?s release of a chemical called prostaglandin that causes inflammation
That sounds interesting. Could it be that the body overreact to orgasm with high inflammation causing Pois symptoms? Might prevention of prostaglandin release solve this? In the past my Pois was reduced by eating anti-inflammatory foods, especially blueberries and garlic.
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Any updates on this CharlesB?
Haven?t had much time to update lately but here goes:
1.) Black seed oil didn?t do anything for me at all.
2.) I did an experiment again with just pepto (chewables) and it worked for about four days straight (no symptoms), and then seemed to lose it?s effectiveness quite a bit after that. That was about a month ago.
3.) This week I had an O and got desperate when the symptoms started (I had a big day the next day), and I tried pepto post orgasm and it knocked the effects down significantly.
Long story short, pepto bismol is the only thing I?ve found that helps me in the slightest. I have an appointment with a new integrative Dr. tomorrow and I?m hoping she?ll have some ideas or at least order a boatload of tests (I want to get my parathyroid checked out, as I am vitamin D deficient, but taking a d3 supplement gives me near full strength POIS symptoms. At least it is a clue).
D3 is in hormone form. Needed or not it puts its full effect on other hormones, etc. Try D2. Also called Ergocalciferol. I buy it from amazon.
Vitamin D Supplement Drops (60 mL) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MXD9FQM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_FGpiFb8EK3C7Z
I can not tolerate D3 either. And only moderate D2 taking every few days. Makes allergies worse. Increases night urination. But it can also decrease inflammation and help concentration and effectiveness significantly. Especially if combined with vit C.
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preventing your body?s release of a chemical called prostaglandin that causes inflammation
That sounds interesting. Could it be that the body overreact to orgasm with high inflammation causing Pois symptoms? Might prevention of prostaglandin release solve this? In the past my Pois was reduced by eating anti-inflammatory foods, especially blueberries and garlic.
I'm not a chemist, but:
Pepto Bismol = Bismuth subsalicylate
Aspirin = acetylsalicylic acid
So it's like a NSAID but with other effects on the gut too.
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John21, great to see you again!
(Everyone, John21 was the first POISer to ever post on a POIS internet group.
In 2007).
John21 was the first, I think you were the 6th Demo :)
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.0
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POIS History Lesson! :) :)
John21, great to see you again!
(Everyone, John21 was the first POISer to ever post on a POIS internet group.
In 2007).
John21 was the first, I think you were the 6th Demo :)
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.0
...and b_jim posted right before me!
February, 2007!
hurray, when did you join??
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Trying to link this with the CFS theories.
https://cfsremission.com/2017/04/03/pepto-bismol-bismuth-as-a-possible-antibiotic-for-cfsfmibs/
"There appears to be significant evidence that it may reduce some symptoms of CFS/FM/IBS in a subset of patients and thus should be discussed with you medical professional. The duration of many studies appear to be approximately 4 weeks."
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/if-h2s-is-the-cause-is-bismuth-subsalicylate-the-treatment.263/
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POIS History Lesson! :) :)
John21, great to see you again!
(Everyone, John21 was the first POISer to ever post on a POIS internet group.
In 2007).
John21 was the first, I think you were the 6th Demo :)
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.0
hurray,
...and b_jim posted right before me!
February, 2007!
hurray, when did you join??
I didn't find the forum until September 2008 :)
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I didn't find the forum until September 2008 :)
hurray,
That still puts you in the First Class Supreme Section of the POIS...
(https://fehac.nl/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Oldtimer-Club-De-Hondsrug.png) https://tinyurl.com/yyhdxy97
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Thanks Demo! 13 years later, we're still here ;D
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Thanks Demo! 13 years later, we're still here ;D
hurray, absolutely amazing. You, me and others have kept this place alive - - AGAINST ALL ODDS!! Some of it has been rough sledding, but only a very few of us seem to appreciate that. And sometimes it’s really hard to endure some of the negativity!
But bottom line is we ARE moving forward. More fortunately than 90%+ of all rare disorders. And I would put our POIS Research Team at the top of that list of items-to-be-grateful-for.
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Thanks Demo! 13 years later, we're still here ;D
hurray, absolutely amazing. You, me and others have kept this place alive - - AGAINST ALL ODDS!! Some of it has been rough sledding, but only a very few of us seem to appreciate that. And sometimes it’s really hard to endure some of the negativity!
But bottom line is we ARE moving forward. More fortunately than 90%+ of all rare disorders. And I would put our POIS Research Team at the top of that list of items-to-be-grateful-for.
Yes, we are definitely making progress :) The current work of the POIS Research Team is very exciting - I can't wait to see what conclusions they come to.
Many people have made great contributions to this forum, and kept things going during harder times. Your positivity more than cancels out any negativity :) ;D
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Yes, we are definitely making progress :) The current work of the POIS Research Team is very exciting - I can't wait to see what conclusions they come to.
Many people have made great contributions to this forum, and kept things going during harder times. Your positivity more than cancels out any negativity :) ;D
MANY, many thanks, hurray!! It’s your sentiments - - and similar ones from other Forum Members - - that have kept me going here all these years!! :) :)
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on this forum there was a post from a person who found h2s sibo. and he was completely feeling healthy on a sulfur-free diet (which is very similar to a histamine-free diet).
So, a low sulfur diet greatly helps the intestines with h2s sibo, but the most basic thing that is also prescribed is pepto bismol(and it helps). You can stick with it for a week and tell the result for the sake of experiment. That guy, by the way, had no sibo symptoms other than flatulence.
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Tried PB yesterday. Just 15 mL of liquid form in AM then another dose one hour or more before O about midnight last night. Did not experience the onset at all last night and went to sleep. This AM feeling strong, maybe a minor tired effect. Mind in peace. I do not yet if I will try a dose today on day 1 or not. Trying to see how long yesterday’s doses work for.
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Trying to link this with the CFS theories.
https://cfsremission.com/2017/04/03/pepto-bismol-bismuth-as-a-possible-antibiotic-for-cfsfmibs/
"There appears to be significant evidence that it may reduce some symptoms of CFS/FM/IBS in a subset of patients and thus should be discussed with you medical professional. The duration of many studies appear to be approximately 4 weeks."
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/if-h2s-is-the-cause-is-bismuth-subsalicylate-the-treatment.263/
Hi,
A key connection below: hydrogen Sulfide could then be an issue in both POIS and CFS. Thus providing further clues on why Pepto Bismol helps both.
From your second link:
“1. Try using Bismuth subsalicylate (BSS). This is commonly known as Pepto Bismol. Each tablespoon or chewable tablet contains 262 mg, and it aggressively soaks up hydrogen sulfide and pulls it out of your body (by turning the hydrogen sulfide into bismuth sulfide). At the same time, it has antibacterial activity that may kill off both the unfriendly bacteria and the biofilms they live in. One to two tablets 3 to 4 times a day will be enough (adjust the dose so that the gas is not too stinky). Give it a 3 to 4 week trial and see if it helps. Then post your results on our community bulletin board and let us know if it helps you.”
From healthrising.com:
“Naviaux’s paper has clearly sparked a lot of interest. Certainly, antecedents hovered in the background; metabolism has actually been a niche topic in ME/CFS for years. Lemle proposed that a hydrogen sulfide induced state of hibernation or hypometabolism caused the low energy problems in chronic fatigue syndrome in 2011. The Aussies have been doing metabolomics research for quite some time. Their 2014 review paper argued it could be helpful in ME/CFS.”
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I read somewhere that if Pepto Bismol gives you dark stools it means you have a lot of hydrogen sulfide in your gut. Is this pseudo-science or does it have any basis in fact? It gives me dark stool but I thought it did that to everyone.
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I read somewhere that if Pepto Bismol gives you dark stools it means you have a lot of hydrogen sulfide in your gut. Is this pseudo-science or does it have any basis in fact? It gives me dark stool but I thought it did that to everyone.
I think that is a normal side effect.
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A key connection below: hydrogen Sulfide could then be an issue in both POIS and CFS. Thus providing further clues on why Pepto Bismol helps both.
...
"Each tablespoon or chewable tablet contains 262 mg, and it aggressively soaks up hydrogen sulfide and pulls it out of your body (by turning the hydrogen sulfide into bismuth sulfide). At the same time, it has antibacterial activity that may kill off both the unfriendly bacteria and the biofilms they live in."
Thank you for bringing this up.
I googled a bit more and found those two blog posts interesting:
https://phoenixrising.me/research-2/hydrogen-sulfide-a-breakthrough-in-mecfs/h2s-a-big-breakthrough-for-chronic-fatigue-syndrome
https://phoenixrising.me/research-2/hydrogen-sulfide-a-breakthrough-in-mecfs/hydrogen-sulfide-and-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-the-originator-speaks
Too bad those blog posts don't have date/time values.
Maybe the orgasm opens some paths in the body that let h2s float around too much and lead then to a 1-7 days CFS like state.
Also as people said, correlated with the intensity of the orgasms (vessels pumping stronger).
We'd need a way to link this all with the other theories floating around. (e.g. virus theories, (auto)immune, blood volume/density, ...)
Or maybe we don't need to given there might be different kinds of POIS.
At least it would explain why diet changes can help so much (because they influence the gut microbiome and gut virome.)
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I took 2 chewable Pepto Bismol tablets before bed and woke up with a black tongue lol. I'm not sure if it's due to Hydrogen Sulfide in my mouth or from reflux. I haven't tried it before orgasm yet.
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6273628/
"However, some recent evidence indicates that H2S released in the colon may also contribute to the control of arterial blood pressure."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30461448/
"H2S maintains the integrity of the mucus layer when derived from endogenous metabolism but is detrimental for this parameter when produced in excess by gut microbes. In inflammatory bowel diseases, an upregulation of H2S production from cysteine by the gut microbiota is observed concomitantly with a downregulation of enzymes implicated in its mucosal detoxification."
https://labblog.uofmhealth.org/lab-report/how-colon-prioritizes-gas-detox-over-energy-use
"How the Colon Prioritizes Gas Detox Over Energy Use"
I'm not a scientist, but does this mean that q10 is used up preferably for removing h2s, so there is less left for creating energy for the body?
(q10 deficiency common in cfs? https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Coenzyme_Q10 )
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I took 2 chewable Pepto Bismol tablets before bed and woke up with a black tongue lol. I'm not sure if it's due to Hydrogen Sulfide in my mouth or from reflux. I haven't tried it before orgasm yet.
Oral dysbiosis? Dead bacteria? I had this once when flushing my mouth with a H2O2 solution. Also my fungal nail turned black and died off when I applied Vicks Vaporub to it for the first time. Some strain may die off shifting dysbiosis.
Oh before I forget, Is it possible to eat Vicks Vaporub? Perhaps someone knows this. Is it toxic? If so in what quantity? There are some strong anti-fungal and anti-bacterial compounds in there.
The active ingredients in Vicks VapoRub are camphor (a cough suppressant and topical analgesic), eucalyptus oil (a cough suppressant) and menthol (a cough suppressant and topical analgesic). The inactive ingredients in Vicks VapoRub include cedarleaf oil, nutmeg oil, petrolatum, thymol and turpentine oil. https://vicks.com/en-us/safety-and-faqs/faqs/vicks-vaporub-faq
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I think it's just sulfur in my saliva reacting with the bismuth to create bismuth sulfide, which is black.
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I read somewhere that if Pepto Bismol gives you dark stools it means you have a lot of hydrogen sulfide in your gut. Is this pseudo-science or does it have any basis in fact? It gives me dark stool but I thought it did that to everyone.
I think that is a normal side effect.
Agreed, my understanding is that black tongue/stools is a very common side effect (I have both when taking it.)
http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=2243
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Had another trial of PB, this time didn't go so well. It seems like the mental disruption is diminished but not eliminated. I wonder if it is because I took it on a full stomach, or that I didn't wait long enough (app 45 min). Or that it wasn't the PB at all in the first place ???
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Cross posting a comment about Cox-2 pathways (pepto inhibits these), and other possibly more natural ways to inhibit the same pathway for relief (I?m going to try Devil?s Claw and/or white willow bark). Hoping the Cox-2 pathway is a clue to figuring out the cause as well.
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2684.msg35753#msg35753
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Had another trial of PB, this time didn't go so well. It seems like the mental disruption is diminished but not eliminated. I wonder if it is because I took it on a full stomach, or that I didn't wait long enough (app 45 min). Or that it wasn't the PB at all in the first place ???
I?ve had experiences like that as well if I don?t wait long enough, and oddly enough one time after a week of no POIS symptoms - it seems to have diminishing returns with continued constant use.
It?s a little frustrating because sometimes it completely removes symptoms for me, and other times it just takes the edge off (I?m confident it is the pepto giving relief because I?ve done many trial and error tests, and nothing else helps even slightly).
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Why don't you just take some more after O and see if that improves things?
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Why don't you just take some more after O and see if that improves things?
That might work but I suspect that it won't. Like when the horse has already left the barn, barring the barn door might not help.
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I have had a few successful more trials with pink bismuth. I consumed an adult dose an hour before and also another dose a few hours after for good measure. Zero symptoms each time, it is working. :)
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I have had a few successful more trials with pink bismuth. I consumed an adult dose an hour before and also another dose a few hours after for good measure. Zero symptoms each time, it is working. :)
Amazing, John!
You’re certainly no newcomer, you were the very first POIS online poster.
Here. In 2007!
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I have had a few successful more trials with pink bismuth. I consumed an adult dose an hour before and also another dose a few hours after for good measure. Zero symptoms each time, it is working. :)
That?s awesome! Great to hear.
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I tried Pepto Bismol Extra Strength. I took an adult dosage 90 minutes before O, 30 minutes before O, and 30 minutes after O. I'd say it reduced POIS significantly. I had almost no physical symptoms which for me is usually aches and pains. I did notice some very minor back muscle tension but nothing painful. I did have some cognitive symptoms. Minor brain fog, low mood, and general bad feeling the next day. So it wasn't a complete success for sure.
I might try combining it with my usual treatment which is antihistamines and see if those knock out the cognitive problems. Perhaps some 5HTP or St John's Wort to improve mood as well.
As Berlin mentioned above it might be the Salicylic acid in the medication that is helping and not the Bismuth. It is a NSAID after all. It would be an interesting experiment to try Aspirin instead since I would think that would deliver even more Salicylic acid than the Pepto.
Nice find!
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I think it might be a combination :-)
PS: If anybody knows how to purchase from inside EU, please message me :-/
I'm keen to try it too.
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I tried Pepto Bismol Extra Strength. I took an adult dosage 90 minutes before O, 30 minutes before O, and 30 minutes after O. I'd say it reduced POIS significantly. I had almost no physical symptoms which for me is usually aches and pains. I did notice some very minor back muscle tension but nothing painful. I did have some cognitive symptoms. Minor brain fog, low mood, and general bad feeling the next day. So it wasn't a complete success for sure.
I might try combining it with my usual treatment which is antihistamines and see if those knock out the cognitive problems. Perhaps some 5HTP or St John's Wort to improve mood as well.
As Berlin mentioned above it might be the Salicylic acid in the medication that is helping and not the Bismuth. It is a NSAID after all. It would be an interesting experiment to try Aspirin instead since I would think that would deliver even more Salicylic acid than the Pepto.
Nice find!
It may be the salicylic part, yes, that brings some relief, it is an anti inflammatory component. The bismuth subsalicylate metobolization in the body do produce salicylic acid.
If anybody tries Aspirin ( acetylsalicylic acid), just let us know the results. Other NSAID have been used, like diclofenac and ibuprofen, but I think Aspirin has not been tested much for POIS.
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Will try that pepto thing, if i find it here in Croatia or Europe, will try Aspirin also, in my case Sibo/low stomach acid is culprit of POIS, what i'm doing to feel better:
1. (Daily!) 2x washing out colon with water(water enema obviously: )) following third enema with 3 drops of Oregano Oil and Grape Seed Extract (in 300 ml water) which i keep in my colon, not flushing out till the next enema next day.
2. Trying to maintain high stomach acid with Swanson betain hlc + pepsin pills.
3. NUTRIMMUN Probiotik PROTECT in the morning.
Those 3 things are helping the most from 1000 things i tried and almost $3000 that i spent in these 3 years of suffering. I even get to state where i was thinking, where are that POIS effects, where are those nasty feelings, in some moments i was feeling really good, not irritable, not feeling angry, not so self criticizing, free of anxiety, brain fog and other POIS symptoms.
And as soon as i stop taking betain pills (currently stores are out of stock) i get my symptoms back, not so strong effects because enema helps a lot, but they are back.
Oregano Oil and GSE is preventing spreading of bad bacteria in the gut (+ helping liver a lot), and high stomach acid is preventing that undigested food come to the gut and prevents food to ferment in the gut. High stomach acid also kills any bacteria in the gut.
What i think it is happening after ejaculation that when we ejaculate, enormous amount of zinc is depleted, zinc is needed for building strong stomach acid and without zinc we get no high stomach acid and undigested food/pathogens/bacteria is going to the gut and making POIS effects, so absorption of zinc from food is disturbed due to low stomach acid, never ending cycle. Disturbed absorption of zinc is due to heavy toxicity, in my case mercury. I do not know or think of any other reason why metabolism of zinc is disturbed. Bacteria in stomach tend to lower stomach acid so they can multiply. What is weird that i did 3 test of H pylori and no h pylori was found, maybe some other nasty bacteria is doing problems. That's why when we stay longer and longer from ejaculation we are feeling better. Body builds up zinc. (Probably).
"Short-term outcomes of increased pH and decreased acid secretion support zinc's potential use in treatment regimens for gastroesophageal reflux disease. For decades, zinc deficiency has been known to increase gastric mucosal cell apoptosis"
What is funny that not one Zinc suplement did help, but large amount of red meat is helping. Not sure because of zinc in there or antibiotics in meat.
So i read here and on net that pepto bismol is antacid, so it lower stomach acid so how in the hell that can help :), but will try it as soon as i find it.
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Will try that pepto thing, if i find it here in Croatia or Europe, will try Aspirin also, in my case Sibo/low stomach acid is culprit of POIS, what i'm doing to feel better:
1. (Daily!) 2x washing out colon with water(water enema obviously: )) following third enema with 3 drops of Oregano Oil and Grape Seed Extract (in 300 ml water) which i keep in my colon, not flushing out till the next enema next day.
2. Trying to maintain high stomach acid with Swanson betain hlc + pepsin pills.
3. NUTRIMMUN Probiotik PROTECT in the morning.
Those 3 things are helping the most from 1000 things i tried and almost $3000 that i spent in these 3 years of suffering. I even get to state where i was thinking, where are that POIS effects, where are those nasty feelings, in some moments i was feeling really good, not irritable, not feeling angry, not so self criticizing, free of anxiety, brain fog and other POIS symptoms.
And as soon as i stop taking betain pills (currently stores are out of stock) i get my symptoms back, not so strong effects because enema helps a lot, but they are back.
Oregano Oil and GSE is preventing spreading of bad bacteria in the gut (+ helping liver a lot), and high stomach acid is preventing that undigested food come to the gut and prevents food to ferment in the gut. High stomach acid also kills any bacteria in the gut.
What i think it is happening after ejaculation that when we ejaculate, enormous amount of zinc is depleted, zinc is needed for building strong stomach acid and without zinc we get no high stomach acid and undigested food/pathogens/bacteria is going to the gut and making POIS effects, so absorption of zinc from food is disturbed due to low stomach acid, never ending cycle. Disturbed absorption of zinc is due to heavy toxicity, in my case mercury. I do not know or think of any other reason why metabolism of zinc is disturbed. Bacteria in stomach tend to lower stomach acid so they can multiply. What is weird that i did 3 test of H pylori and no h pylori was found, maybe some other nasty bacteria is doing problems. That's why when we stay longer and longer from ejaculation we are feeling better. Body builds up zinc. (Probably).
"Short-term outcomes of increased pH and decreased acid secretion support zinc's potential use in treatment regimens for gastroesophageal reflux disease. For decades, zinc deficiency has been known to increase gastric mucosal cell apoptosis"
What is funny that not one Zinc suplement did help, but large amount of red meat is helping. Not sure because of zinc in there or antibiotics in meat.
So i read here and on net that pepto bismol is antacid, so it lower stomach acid so how in the hell that can help :), but will try it as soon as i find it.
Had any metal exposure?
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What is funny that not one Zinc suplement did help, but large amount of red meat is helping. Not sure because of zinc in there or antibiotics in meat.
Choline
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Really exciting stuff. Thank you for sharing your experience with us, Charles B!
After reading drop247 and John21's experiences I had to give it a go. I ordered the chewable ones, they should arrive in two weeks or so. Will update you with the results as soon as possible.
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The Pepto Bismol arrived today. So you have to take it two weeks before it works?
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I think he said later on it works if you take it before orgasm , theres no need to take it for two weeks
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The Pepto Bismol arrived today. So you have to take it two weeks before it works?
No need to take for two weeks - that was just part of my anecdote about how I first discovered that it worked for me. It?s probably different for everyone, but I found that if I have a dose in the morning and then one at lunch, then that afternoon I am good to go with no symptoms. This is based on just continual trial and error.
I know someone else mentioned they were fine after just one dose and waiting an hour.
Pepto is definitely something that is not meant to be taken daily for a long period of time - so I try and keep it to once or maybe twice per week.
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There are papers which describe adverse effects of long term bismuth intake. Just look at literature.
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The Pepto Bismol arrived today. So you have to take it two weeks before it works?
No need to take for two weeks - that was just part of my anecdote about how I first discovered that it worked for me. It?s probably different for everyone, but I found that if I have a dose in the morning and then one at lunch, then that afternoon I am good to go with no symptoms. This is based on just continual trial and error.
I know someone else mentioned they were fine after just one dose and waiting an hour.
Pepto is definitely something that is not meant to be taken daily for a long period of time - so I try and keep it to once or maybe twice per week.
Ok so you take 2 Pepto before your sexual activity? Or after on day 1?
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There are papers which describe adverse effects of long term bismuth intake. Just look at literature.
Agree 100% - I?ve mentioned in previous posts that I?m looking for an alternative Cox-2 inhibitor such as white willow bark that does not inhibit cox1 (the body breaks the subsalicylate in pepto into salicylic acid, which only targets Cox2 pathways. The acetyl-salicylate in aspirin targets both, potentially causing extra gi issues).
Hopefully something like willlow bark would not have the risk profile of long term pepto use, but I?ll have to see if it even works for me before worrying about that.
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The Pepto Bismol arrived today. So you have to take it two weeks before it works?
No need to take for two weeks - that was just part of my anecdote about how I first discovered that it worked for me. It?s probably different for everyone, but I found that if I have a dose in the morning and then one at lunch, then that afternoon I am good to go with no symptoms. This is based on just continual trial and error.
I know someone else mentioned they were fine after just one dose and waiting an hour.
Pepto is definitely something that is not meant to be taken daily for a long period of time - so I try and keep it to once or maybe twice per week.
Ok so you take 2 Pepto before your sexual activity? Or after on day 1?
All I can say is that for me, I like to take a dose in the morning, and another at lunch, and then wait an hour. I know someone else on here mentioned just needing a dose and waiting an hour.
What I can say definitively is that I have taken a dose right before or right after O, and not had much success (some relief, but not as much) - so waiting 45 minutes to an hour after taking seems to work much better.
Sorry for the vague answer, but it?s a bit of a guessing game and may be slightly different for everyone. Good luck!
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I tried it but it did not help me at all. I took 2 after breakfast and 2 after lunch. I also tried to take 2 before sex.
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Will try that pepto thing, if i find it here in Croatia or Europe, will try Aspirin also, in my case Sibo/low stomach acid is culprit of POIS, what i'm doing to feel better:
1. (Daily!) 2x washing out colon with water(water enema obviously: )) following third enema with 3 drops of Oregano Oil and Grape Seed Extract (in 300 ml water) which i keep in my colon, not flushing out till the next enema next day.
2. Trying to maintain high stomach acid with Swanson betain hlc + pepsin pills.
3. NUTRIMMUN Probiotik PROTECT in the morning.
Those 3 things are helping the most from 1000 things i tried and almost $3000 that i spent in these 3 years of suffering. I even get to state where i was thinking, where are that POIS effects, where are those nasty feelings, in some moments i was feeling really good, not irritable, not feeling angry, not so self criticizing, free of anxiety, brain fog and other POIS symptoms.
And as soon as i stop taking betain pills (currently stores are out of stock) i get my symptoms back, not so strong effects because enema helps a lot, but they are back.
Oregano Oil and GSE is preventing spreading of bad bacteria in the gut (+ helping liver a lot), and high stomach acid is preventing that undigested food come to the gut and prevents food to ferment in the gut. High stomach acid also kills any bacteria in the gut.
What i think it is happening after ejaculation that when we ejaculate, enormous amount of zinc is depleted, zinc is needed for building strong stomach acid and without zinc we get no high stomach acid and undigested food/pathogens/bacteria is going to the gut and making POIS effects, so absorption of zinc from food is disturbed due to low stomach acid, never ending cycle. Disturbed absorption of zinc is due to heavy toxicity, in my case mercury. I do not know or think of any other reason why metabolism of zinc is disturbed. Bacteria in stomach tend to lower stomach acid so they can multiply. What is weird that i did 3 test of H pylori and no h pylori was found, maybe some other nasty bacteria is doing problems. That's why when we stay longer and longer from ejaculation we are feeling better. Body builds up zinc. (Probably).
"Short-term outcomes of increased pH and decreased acid secretion support zinc's potential use in treatment regimens for gastroesophageal reflux disease. For decades, zinc deficiency has been known to increase gastric mucosal cell apoptosis"
What is funny that not one Zinc suplement did help, but large amount of red meat is helping. Not sure because of zinc in there or antibiotics in meat.
So i read here and on net that pepto bismol is antacid, so it lower stomach acid so how in the hell that can help :), but will try it as soon as i find it.
POIS probably has got nothing to do with nutrient depletion after ejaculation because those amounts are very small and food intake gives several times more and those nutrients in it are already in a finalized state therefore they won't induce any deficiencies because they have already been formalized into the cells that the body has produced and the POIS symptoms appear very fast it would take longer time for the changes due to less Zinc to occur and then produce noticeable effects the POIS mechanism is something that can activate within minutes so it's more likely related to nerves/immunity/muscles/blood vessels and something like that.
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Someone from inside EU (excluding UK, yep) please message me on how to get this in Germany.
I had two cases now where the customs don't seem to let me get the package. :-(
Thank you
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Interesting topic. I know people with celiac who take Pepto for relief of symptoms like joint and gut pain. I don't remember giving Pepto a try for my celiac?/pois situation that I have. Since reading about it helping you and your gut situation I may try this when I eat a food I have problems with.
If I had to bet it would be the anti-inflammatory actions of the bismuth? causing the symptom relief.
I have tried aspirin before with side effects. The best nsaid for me is Ibuprofen, and I still take that occasionally. Helps with mood reactions to some foods that I get.
Like you Charles, I cannot take vitamin D (can't really take any synthetic vitamins tbh) as it gives me a very hot/caffeinated and uncomfortable feeling. It sucks when you're vitamin D deficient as well.
I do want to give Pepto an honest try in the future for some food reactions I get that cause insomnia and pain when I try different foods. Since people try this for celiac as well I think it's time for me to give it a honest try when I need it.
For those wondering, I'm still 100% pois free and my symptoms completely revolve around food. But I like to constantly experiment with food so I'll get symptoms sometimes... having nothing to do with O. But O does exacerbate symptoms when I get them. If I eat food that messes with my mood I'll take 400 or 600 mg Ibuprofen and that really helps, but not much for insomnia caused by some foods, maybe up to 50% helpful for insomnia. Maybe Pepto could help with insomnia caused by food reactions somewhat? I'll test that out later. It's always nice having things you can take when you experience symptoms. With this evidence coupled with people who have actual celiac that find relief from Pepto I think it's overdue for me to try it when my gut/brain isn't right.
- GLC over pois and out.
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So I figured I'd give Pepto a go last night and it is a no go for me. Gastrointestinal pain lessened but I had a mood reaction to it (hyper-common for me). Perhaps I'm allergic to an added color or one of the 30 inactive ingredients. This led me to look for just the bismuth to try. Anybody have any recommendations?
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You could try Devrom - it?s bismuth subgallate (so no salicylic acid/aspirin). It takes the edge off for me at a minimum during really bad acute symptoms.
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Interesting topic. I know people with celiac who take Pepto for relief of symptoms like joint and gut pain. I don't remember giving Pepto a try for my celiac?/pois situation that I have. Since reading about it helping you and your gut situation I may try this when I eat a food I have problems with.
If I had to bet it would be the anti-inflammatory actions of the bismuth? causing the symptom relief.
I have tried aspirin before with side effects. The best nsaid for me is Ibuprofen, and I still take that occasionally. Helps with mood reactions to some foods that I get.
Like you Charles, I cannot take vitamin D (can't really take any synthetic vitamins tbh) as it gives me a very hot/caffeinated and uncomfortable feeling. It sucks when you're vitamin D deficient as well.
I do want to give Pepto an honest try in the future for some food reactions I get that cause insomnia and pain when I try different foods. Since people try this for celiac as well I think it's time for me to give it a honest try when I need it.
For those wondering, I'm still 100% pois free and my symptoms completely revolve around food. But I like to constantly experiment with food so I'll get symptoms sometimes... having nothing to do with O. But O does exacerbate symptoms when I get them. If I eat food that messes with my mood I'll take 400 or 600 mg Ibuprofen and that really helps, but not much for insomnia caused by some foods, maybe up to 50% helpful for insomnia. Maybe Pepto could help with insomnia caused by food reactions somewhat? I'll test that out later. It's always nice having things you can take when you experience symptoms. With this evidence coupled with people who have actual celiac that find relief from Pepto I think it's overdue for me to try it when my gut/brain isn't right.
- GLC over pois and out.
Just a note on Vitamin D, I started at small doses and am up to 10,000 in per day, and my blood levels have gone from 11 to 46.
I think the key for me was starting small, having a tsp of coconut oil (fat for the D absorption), and making sure I had K2 at the same time. Also having a banana at the same time seemed to help minimize D symptoms I was having.
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Interesting topic. I know people with celiac who take Pepto for relief of symptoms like joint and gut pain. I don't remember giving Pepto a try for my celiac?/pois situation that I have. Since reading about it helping you and your gut situation I may try this when I eat a food I have problems with.
If I had to bet it would be the anti-inflammatory actions of the bismuth? causing the symptom relief.
I have tried aspirin before with side effects. The best nsaid for me is Ibuprofen, and I still take that occasionally. Helps with mood reactions to some foods that I get.
Like you Charles, I cannot take vitamin D (can't really take any synthetic vitamins tbh) as it gives me a very hot/caffeinated and uncomfortable feeling. It sucks when you're vitamin D deficient as well.
I do want to give Pepto an honest try in the future for some food reactions I get that cause insomnia and pain when I try different foods. Since people try this for celiac as well I think it's time for me to give it a honest try when I need it.
For those wondering, I'm still 100% pois free and my symptoms completely revolve around food. But I like to constantly experiment with food so I'll get symptoms sometimes... having nothing to do with O. But O does exacerbate symptoms when I get them. If I eat food that messes with my mood I'll take 400 or 600 mg Ibuprofen and that really helps, but not much for insomnia caused by some foods, maybe up to 50% helpful for insomnia. Maybe Pepto could help with insomnia caused by food reactions somewhat? I'll test that out later. It's always nice having things you can take when you experience symptoms. With this evidence coupled with people who have actual celiac that find relief from Pepto I think it's overdue for me to try it when my gut/brain isn't right.
- GLC over pois and out.
Just a note on Vitamin D, I started at small doses and am up to 10,000 in per day, and my blood levels have gone from 11 to 46.
I think the key for me was starting small, having a tsp of coconut oil (fat for the D absorption), and making sure I had K2 at the same time. Also having a banana at the same time seemed to help minimize D symptoms I was having.
Yeah my brain is insanely sensitive to vitamin D, and many, many others. Why? I still have no effing clue. Even tried micro dosing before and can barely handle it. I'm taking a drop of cod liver oil now and that's literally all I can handle for vitamin D. My guess is either I have sibo or some detox problem.
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Yeah my brain is insanely sensitive to vitamin D, and many, many others. Why? I still have no effing clue. Even tried micro dosing before and can barely handle it. I'm taking a drop of cod liver oil now and that's literally all I can handle for vitamin D. My guess is either I have sibo or some detox problem.
D-Lactate (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3385.msg39341#msg39341)?
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https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3203.msg39066#msg39066
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2301.msg34654#msg34654
Igy78 got infiltrates. I wonder if he is responsive to pepto-bismol. Going less crazy and myself could have infiltrates in the GI tract considering food sensitivities.
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Yeah my brain is insanely sensitive to vitamin D, and many, many others. Why? I still have no effing clue. Even tried micro dosing before and can barely handle it. I'm taking a drop of cod liver oil now and that's literally all I can handle for vitamin D. My guess is either I have sibo or some detox problem.
D-Lactate (https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3385.msg39341#msg39341)?
I've heard of this before. Might be at least one reason why carbs make me feel fogged and moody at times. Sweet potatoes and gf bread seem to be okay. But beans sometimes contribute to brain fog. Also my eyes turn red and I feel speedy after taking probiotics, never tried the d lactate free ones though.
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I received my SIBO Breath Test kit today and was surprised to note the instructions specifically state I can't use Pepto Bismol (among other things like antibiotics) for 14 days prior to the giving the breath sample. To me this indicates either Pepto Bismol is an effective anti-SIBO treatment, or it produces hydrogen or methane which interferes with the test sample. I'm thinking it's probably the anti-microbial effect.
Anyways, I just took Pepto Bismol yesterday and today as POIS pre and post treatment so it will be at least 14 days until I can do my breath test. It's noticeably very effective against POIS for me, by the way. I also inject Testosterone and I'm taking Low Dose Naltrexone these days so I'm not sure how effective is on it's own. In my research I see LDN is also being used against SIBO so I should probably come off that before my breath test as well.
I will update with the SIBO breath test results when I am able to do the test. My concern is this test only checks for Hydrogen and Methane and not Hydrogen Sulfide which I suspect could be my problem.
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Very interested to see your results, and the bismuth/hydrogen sulfide connection makes logical sense to me.
After you mentioned the Trio test, I talked to my Dr and they ordered it, so will see if anything pops up for Hydrogen Sulfide.
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So I?m back full circle from my first post on this thread... just tested positive for H Pylori again via the GI-MAP stool test. Granted I tested negative recently in both Genova and Great Plains stool tests, as well as an H Pylori antigen test at my clinic (have had a lot of tests to see if I can figure out the root of the dysbiosis.). Not sure if those other tests are inaccurate , or if the GI-MAP is inaccurate.
I would lean towards the GI-MAP being correct, as I do have horrible indigestion and heartburn.
The plan is to take Quadruple Therapy (which includes bismuth) to clear it once and for all. My unrealistic hope is that I just magically start feeling better after the hardcore antibiotics :)
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I have experimented with herbal antimicrobials over the past 5-6 months, specifically candibactin AR (thyme, sage, oregano, lemon balm) and candibactin BR (berberine HCL plus a bunch of other berberine-containing plant extracts) and have had a lot of success.
My first trial was in October and November of 2020, and I noticed substantial symptom relief within one day of starting. Specifically, reduced POIS symptoms, far improved mood, mental energy, cognition, and social ability, as well as somewhat reduced physical fatigue (interestingly, no relief to exercise-induced symptoms). The benefits seemed to last a few weeks after discontinuation before I went back to my normal state. After restarting for a shorter course at the end of December, I found my symptoms were partially relieved but I also experienced some GI upset that forced me to stop. Thankfully, I maintained about 40-50% symptom reduction for a month after discontinuation. I subsequently regressed almost completely before restarting the candibactins a week ago and feeling better within a few days. The relief is not complete, but it is profound; I feel like life is actually worth living while and shortly after I am on a course.
I initially started treatment due to suspected SIBO, however a breath test during my most recent slump revealed only a minor methanogenic overgrowth (11 ppm methane, <10 reference range). According to a stool test, I have high levels of two known potential pathogens, klebsiella pneumoniae and citrobacter brakii, in addition to an overgrowth of bacteroidetes in my large intestine. It seems that what the candibactins are treating is likely some kind of gut dysbiosis, either the result of pathogenic overgrowth or an imbalanced microbiome. Either way the relief is astonishing, and lends credence to the gut theory of POIS. I have never had particularly bothersome digestive symptoms, so this has been a surprise for me.
It seems like there are a lot of us finding that the gut is the root of our POIS. I'm really hoping this ends up leading to a cure for all or many of us :)
I'm going to wait a bit to make a top-level post, but thought I'd share this with you guys now.
If you are interested in the products I used, I put the links below. I have no idea whether these products are more effective than other formulations, simply that they work for me and were suggested by my doctor.
Candibactin AR: https://www.metagenics.com/candibactin-ar
Candibactin BR: https://www.metagenics.com/candibactin-br
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Congrats!
I'm looking forward to your top level post.
Especially "candibactin BR" looks like it contains a lot of stuff that can affect a lot of different things in the body.
Interestingly some people know Berberine as gut medicine, some know it as nootropic.
https://nootropicsexpert.com/berberine/
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Glad to see Candibactin works for you! I tried it a while ago, and got such severe side effects that I had to stop. Part of me wonders if it was killing off something pathogenic, and I just ramped up so quickly that I couldn?t handle the die-off.
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Someone from inside EU (excluding UK, yep) please message me on how to get this in Germany.
I had two cases now where the customs don't seem to let me get the package. :-(
Thank you
I recently ordered Pepto Bismol to an EU country on Amazon. It came from the States. The seller's name was Daily Supply. I don't know if I'm allowed to direct link to a product here, but if you can't find it with that info I can send you or the other Euro poster who asked about this a direct link.
The bottle arrived in a padded envelope after several weeks' time without any customs problems.
FYI It's a small bottle, only 8 doses for 18 euros (118 ml, 15-ml doses -- It's Maximum Strength).
Cheers.
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Someone from inside EU (excluding UK, yep) please message me on how to get this in Germany.
I had two cases now where the customs don't seem to let me get the package. :-(
Thank you
I recently ordered Pepto Bismol to an EU country on Amazon. It came from the States. The seller's name was Daily Supply. I don't know if I'm allowed to direct link to a product here, but if you can't find it with that info I can send you or the other Euro poster who asked about this a direct link.
The bottle arrived in a padded envelope after several weeks' time without any customs problems.
FYI It's a small bottle, only 8 doses for 18 euros (118 ml, 15-ml doses -- It's Maximum Strength).
Cheers.
When you take it tell us what results you got
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One data point for me: I've tried several times now (double dose, e.g. taking one 3h before orgasm, one 1h before orgasm) but it does not change my POIS.
So I think I don't have the specific gut bacteria that need some trimming..
::)
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Someone from inside EU (excluding UK, yep) please message me on how to get this in Germany.
I had two cases now where the customs don't seem to let me get the package. :-(
Thank you
I recently ordered Pepto Bismol to an EU country on Amazon. It came from the States. The seller's name was Daily Supply. I don't know if I'm allowed to direct link to a product here, but if you can't find it with that info I can send you or the other Euro poster who asked about this a direct link.
The bottle arrived in a padded envelope after several weeks' time without any customs problems.
FYI It's a small bottle, only 8 doses for 18 euros (118 ml, 15-ml doses -- It's Maximum Strength).
Cheers.
When you take it tell us what results you got
Preliminary results are positive. Due to the lack of Pepto Bismol here I have just purchased Gastrodenol which contains Colloidal bismuth subcitrate instead of Pepto's Bismuth subsalicylate. I'll keep you guys apprised of my progress and if I find that it's a long-lasting fix I'll make a general "cured" post about it (wouldn't that be something?!)
I should mention that I have had no IBS symptoms that I'm aware of. I'm doing fine down there. I tried some probiotics and I guess my bathroom activity is a little "cleaner" and better but I suffered from no cramps or gasses etc. as I've seen others being troubled with.
I mention this because the lack of severe stomach symptoms would make me think that a product like Pepto which relieves stomach and intestinal issues wouldn't work for me.
Weird.
- Pontevin
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One data point for me: I've tried several times now (double dose, e.g. taking one 3h before orgasm, one 1h before orgasm) but it does not change my POIS.
So I think I don't have the specific gut bacteria that need some trimming..
::)
you probably need to take it every day for a long time