POISCENTER
POIS Cause/Treatment Discussions => General Alternative Causes and Treatments of POIS => Topic started by: Egordon on January 26, 2012, 03:20:39 PM
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Hey Guys,
I haven't been posting much on here lately but figured I'd come back around and share some of my experiences with Niacinamide. Most people on the board seem to prefer Niacin -- probably due to the fact that we discovered it first and because of our fixation on the flush that it produces (and it's relation to histamine and Dr. Waldinger's theory) -- but I've personally received better performance from Niacinamide.
(Note: I've only tried two brands of Niacin and that it's entirely possible that the brands i happened to try were just of an inferior quality to the GNC Niacinamide that i'm using now)
My experience is that Niacinamide kicks in faster (I can O after 30 - 40 min) and is shorter acting (I can't O multiple times when I use it) but its effects are stronger (my theory on this is that my body absorbs it better -- when i used to take Niacin i'd pee bright yellow, which indicates to me that a lot of the vitamin was being excreted). I can take it immediately after eating a meal and I get essentially no POIS afterwards -- this is a huge deal for me, as i used to hate having to wait hours for my system to digest everything. It even works to largely eliminate POIS when i've had an O without taking B3 beforehand -- which has historically been a huge problem for us. And the day after O-ing with Niacin, I used to feel like I had just a little (sub-20%) lingering POIS. With Niacinamide I don't really get that feeling.
Other benefits not related to its strength: No flushing or redness, and no muscle spasms (Niacin used to make my back tighten up).
Have many of you guys tried Niacinamide? Have you noticed any difference?
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Note: My results were obtained using 300mg of Niacinamide. While this substance doesn't give me a flush, it's different from the long-acting Niacin, which traditionally comes in 500mg tablets and doesn't give a flush because it's not all absorbed at once. Niacinamide works, the longer-acting stuff (whose name is eluding me right now) does not. Don't take it.
(I obviously don't want to jump to any conclusions but i'm interested in what implications the success of flush-free Niacin has on the work of Waldinger. I just want to start a debate so that we don't foreclose all the possible causes of POIS.
These days I'm entirely convinced that POIS stems from poor blood circulation in the brain -- after all, the only thing we've seen success from is vasodilators. I know this is at odds with Dr. Waldinger's theory but it jibes with some of the diagnoses that received prior to discovering this board. Doctors used to tell me that I had cluster headaches because my eye would partially shut when i was under POIS. That type of headache stems from irregularities in blood flow in the brain. (Essentially, blood isn't able to circulate well enough so your blood vessels dilate to improve circulation. This pushes on certain parts of your brain giving you a headache and eye-related symptoms. And anti-inflammatories treat these symptoms by decreasing dilation) Further, it seems peculiar that flush-free niacinamide would work at all given the centrality of histimine to Waldinger's theory. What do you guys think of this.)
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Egordon - " It even works to largely eliminate POIS when i've had an O without taking B3 beforehand "
So, if i take niacinamide after O There will be a decrease in symptoms? Ive tried Niacin after O with no results. If this is true, it will be a huge step in relief for us.
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Hey MrMoonJr,
Yeah, that's what i've experienced. It doesn't completely eliminate POIS if you O without taking anything first, but it helps a lot. Unfortunately, with Niacin I saw virtually no improvement if I forgot to take something. Niacinamide seems to be a little different this way.
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This is good timing for this thread. We've sort of got niacin fairly nailed, now we can compare without complicating the picture, apples are apples and oranges are oranges.
A good description of the differences. I especially like the not having to wait for food to digest!
Some have taken 500 and 1000mg and with success. Would these have been delayed action by default (because of their size)? Or are there bigger doses that are non-delayed.
If I'm going to take 1000mg I want to be sure I know what I'm in for.
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I didn't see any interractions between fenugreek and B3. You can start with a small dose.
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can we take niacinamide with fenugreek? would there be any complications?
I've taken fenugreek in the morning and then taken 200mg of niacin at night on numerous occasion with no problem. I don't see much chance of a drug interaction between a vitamin and an herb.
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To Daveman and Egordon
Hello guys
I was off the forum for some time and I notice now there has changed a lot?
Today I saw my GP about POIS.
Of course I knew he could?n do anything for me but I wanted to consult him about the use of niacin. After what I read from Daveman and Egordon, about their experiences with it I wondered if I could use it too without any risk?..
Happily he was positive and I can use it.
I?m going to try it anyway.
One thing, the so called ?flush?. What is it?
Is it dangerous? And is it an essence for help against POIS?
I can buy it in different shops always ?without flush? ? also named Niacinamide
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The flush is a hot itchy sensation similar to the one you get if you stay in a hot shower way too long. Nacinamide is different than niacin. 100 to 200mg of niacin gives most of us a flush. You must wait several hours after eating in order to get the flush. When you buy the niacin it will just say "Niacin". Don't buy it if it says "no flush" on it.
It's not dangerous unless you take high quantities I'm guessing over 500mg every day or something like that and then it'll just have a chance of damaging your liver. The exact information is probly located somewhere else on this forum.
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The flush to me feels like a mild sunburn. But it's not really all that unpleasant, and only lasts about 20 min. I actually like the flush now.
You also get a sort of healthy peaceful effect.
It's not really the flush that alleviates POIS, but the flush is a sort of indicator that you have reached niacin saturation in the blood. And marks the precise dose you need for it to help POIS. So it's just a marker. No flush, little to no effect.
There are three types of no-flush, if you find the flush all that terrible (which it isn't).
One is a chemical modification, if it's not pure nicotinic acid it's a chemically modified no-flush. This basically doesn't work. Doesn't help
A second is a gel stabilized slow release kind. Problem is, that it is designed to release slow enough that you don't get the flush, and no flush, no relief. If you take enough that the slow release DOES release enough for a flush, you might be flushing for a long time. Not desirable.
A third kind is niacinimide. There have been reports that this works well. You have to take 1000mg, but because it doesn't have fush, you don't have that "indication" that tells you you've taken enough.
Start with 100mg pure niacin at least 3 hrs after eating and 30 min to 1 hr before orgasm. That should work very well. You'll feel tingling on the skin, indicating that the flush is coming, then slowly it peaks until the skin feels like sunburn, especially the face and scalp, and then arms and legs to varying degree. You may feel the face sort of pulsing. THIS IS NORMAL NATURAL AND NOT DAMAGING, in fact it's healthy for you. It passes quite quickly. As soon as you pass the peak of the flush, you can start in on the fun!!
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A very clear explanation. Thank you.
I couldn't get Niacin (with flush) ; only as a special order from US.
I tried Niacinimide 500 mg which is regularly for sale at a chemist's here.
At the moment I'm not yet sure how it works out but I will report it if I am?..
Additionally I use Vitamine B complex, one's a day 100 mg.
I think I will order real Niacin soon. After all I read about flush I'm a little curious about it?? ::)
It also seems an advantage to me to know when it is beginning to work.
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Other news on niacinamide? When you take and in what quantity? you did a comparison with niacin?
I tried 150 grams of niacinamide but no effect on pois.
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Last weeks I have been trying what this Vitamine B3 can do for me.
I started with Vitamine B complex, one's a day 100 mg.
That seems to be very healthy and will be a base for other B?s. Though it does nothing to reduce on POIS symptoms.
Then I tried niacinamide, about 3 hours fasting and 1 hour before O. I used 500 mg the first time.
It was not very successful but my complaints were less then they used to be. About a 40 to 60 percent but they lasted still 4 days as always.
After that I increased the quantity several times up to 1500 mg yesterday and today I didn't notice anything of POIS ! I hope this will last the coming days ! ::)
I also tried niacin.
First 100 and 200 mg which did nothing at all.
Then after 5 hours fasting and 300 mg about 50 minutes before O my POIS was somewhat reduced the next 4 days but not very impressingly. I had a rather strong flush with that 300 mg and therefore I didn't dare to raise the quantity further.
Though, I have to go on??.Today I noticed there are suppliers who have niacin 500 mg tablets available and they are sold well, so nobody seems to get any damage by the flush with that quantity ! ;D
Of course I am satisfied with the result with the niacinamide but I like the niacin flush for more than one reason.
At first I think it a very pleasant experience - particularly with cold wether. ;)
It is also a kind of ?marker? indeed to know when it's O.K. Only, with high quantities the flush lasts very long, though decreasing.
I think when the peak has past it is time I can have an O.
A third thing has nothing to do with POIS and is a bit personal. I have a slowly increasing problem with my legs for years now, what makes walking difficult.
I noticed after a niacin flush a remarkable improvement. I don't expect a healing but it is worth to try what happens with regular use of niacin.
Before long I'm going to experience with a higher dose of niacin.
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people asking about mixing niacin with fenugreek , its actually quite beneficial , as fenuugreek is hypoglycemic and niacin is hyperglycemic , actually niacin is one of the drugs that can cause drug indused Diabetes mellitus . so keep a healthy low carb and fat diet (which would also helps in pois and your everey day life ) and if you are on a diabetes medication keep track of ur blood glucose levels with niacin
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Last weeks I have been trying what this Vitamine B3 can do for me.
I started with Vitamine B complex, one's a day 100 mg.
That seems to be very healthy and will be a base for other B?s. Though it does nothing to reduce on POIS symptoms.
Then I tried niacinamide, about 3 hours fasting and 1 hour before O. I used 500 mg the first time.
It was not very successful but my complaints were less then they used to be. About a 40 to 60 percent but they lasted still 4 days as always.
After that I increased the quantity several times up to 1500 mg yesterday and today I didn't notice anything of POIS ! I hope this will last the coming days ! ::)
I also tried niacin.
First 100 and 200 mg which did nothing at all.
Then after 5 hours fasting and 300 mg about 50 minutes before O my POIS was somewhat reduced the next 4 days but not very impressingly. I had a rather strong flush with that 300 mg and therefore I didn't dare to raise the quantity further.
Though, I have to go on??.Today I noticed there are suppliers who have niacin 500 mg tablets available and they are sold well, so nobody seems to get any damage by the flush with that quantity ! ;D
Of course I am satisfied with the result with the niacinamide but I like the niacin flush for more than one reason.
At first I think it a very pleasant experience - particularly with cold wether. ;)
It is also a kind of ?marker? indeed to know when it's O.K. Only, with high quantities the flush lasts very long, though decreasing.
I think when the peak has past it is time I can have an O.
A third thing has nothing to do with POIS and is a bit personal. I have a slowly increasing problem with my legs for years now, what makes walking difficult.
I noticed after a niacin flush a remarkable improvement. I don't expect a healing but it is worth to try what happens with regular use of niacin.
Before long I'm going to experience with a higher dose of niacin.
i personally couldn't even take 300 mg regular niacin, it would be too much for me, but we are all somewhat different.
That's good news about the niacinamide. I would like to try it, but I am doing so well with regular niacin, I feel I don't want to risk ever having POIS again.
Yes, I understand that with a stringer flush, it's better to wait till the flush has mostly passed before having the orgasm. If you are still flushing fairly strongly, it seems the effects aren't as beneficial.
On a side note, my last time I took 100 mg, which is my regular dose, but did not get a flush. So I had to take another 75 mg just to barely get a flush. It was a very light flush, but my POIS was practically zero afterwards. So even though my flush was light, it seems that having taken a greater quantity than usual worked better for me.
It's really strange how this niacin works!
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sometime i increase my dose to 1g if im not fasting and it seems to do trick
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sometime i increase my dose to 1g if im not fasting and it seems to do trick
WOW, I've wondered what it would take to overcome the fasting rule!
The one time that I had to take more than the 100 even after fasting was the day after a big party where we all indulged a bit too much. So even though the day that I took it I had fasted, it seems that the day before made me a little less tolerant.
I'll have to see what it will take for me if I haven't fasted...
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I think if you eat easy digestable food it is perhaps less necessary to fast so long.
But this is just an idea.
I had sometimes a cup of tea and a biscuit while fasting and I think it wasn?t very harmfull.
Perhaps it depends on the total contents of the intestines and that can be the contents of the day before too, I think??if it was a heavy meal?? ;D
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120 mg of nicotinamide for me today on empty stomach. No flush.
It didn't help my flu-like symptoms. I had cold feeling just after orgasm as usual and some postprandial flu-like symptoms as usual. Maybe it helps with cognitive symptoms but nothing else.
Maybe I will make a test with 150 or 200mg next time but niacine is not the miracle cure for me.
Or maybe with inositol hexanicotinate.
About cold feelings, I will take some pictures next time. I think there is a difference on hand, skin, colors and veins.
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Nicotinamide or niacinamide doesn't give any flush.
I had a rather satisfying result with 1500 mg niacinamide after 3 hours fasting. No POIS.
But better don't use higher doses.
With niacin you will get a flush but it depends on if your body is used to it.
The first time I had a rather strong flush with 100 mg,
The flush is about the same now with 500 mg.
Evidently your body gets used to it.
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I found this on a forum :
One way you can test your histamine levels is to buy some nicotinic acid (the niacin that causes the flush) in 50 mg. dose. If you have high histamine levels then you will experience a flush from only 50 mg. dose.
If it takes 100 mg. to cause you to flush then you have normal (or balanced) histamine levels.
If it takes from 150 mg. to 250 mg. dose of niacin to flush then you have low histamine levels.
I like this idea and this test but it's probably too easy to be true.
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Also I don't think that histamine test accounts for whether you take the niacin on an empty stomach or not.
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flushing isnt because of histamine release
the major cause for flushing when taking niacin is direct specefic activation of a G coupled protien receptor called NIACR1 which in turn activates the langerhans cells in the skin to release prostaglandin d2 which causes vasodilation and thus the flushing effect
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flushing isnt because of histamine release
the major cause for flushing when taking niacin is direct specefic activation of a G coupled protien receptor called NIACR1 which in turn activates the langerhans cells in the skin to release prostaglandin d2 which causes vasodilation and thus the flushing effect
Yes, it's subtle, but the vasodilation then incentivates histamine release. The increased bloodflow to each cell stimulates the release of toxins, which in turn generates a histamine cycle.
But, these subtle differences are very important. The whole reaction with prostaglandin d2 as it relates to POIS is very complex. The question remains, "why does niacin help so dramatically (in some) with POIS?"
It has also been noted that the flush DOESN'T seem to be the critical factor in POIS symptom relief although it is the best "indicator" that the body has received enough niacin.
What is the role of prostaglandins d2 in the production of dopamine and serotonin?
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But, these subtle differences are very important. The whole reaction with prostaglandin d2 as it relates to POIS is very complex. The question remains, "why does niacin help so dramatically (in some) with POIS?"
I've been thinking lately, what if (assuming flushing is actually required for POIS relief) the prostoglandin d2 gets used/depleted by a large flush. During this depletion we "O," and perhaps there is no prostoglandin d2 available to get those mast cells to produce the immune response things that they do?
Also, i just read an article that claims that serotonin is also responsible for the niacin flush:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18784348
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Ok guys, niacin reduces brain fog, other symptoms such as fatigue and tiredness as a cure?
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Niacin may improve my cognitive symptoms only.
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Niacin may improve my cognitive symptoms only.
me too...only brain fog slide away
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I've been thinking lately, what if (assuming flushing is actually required for POIS relief) the prostoglandin d2 gets used/depleted by a large flush. During this depletion we "O," and perhaps there is no prostoglandin d2 available to get those mast cells to produce the immune response things that they do?
Also, i just read an article that claims that serotonin is also responsible for the niacin flush:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18784348
interesting theory , what ever nictotinic acid does , it only works when taken before orgasm not after , i just had an O during sleeping and am having a very bad pois right now specially cognitively i took niacin when i woke up but didnt seem to work at all after O
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after which month of treatment with niacin can say that the only side effect is leg cramps that last for a couple of days, cramping the tibia annoying ... happens to someone?
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I bought Niacin but it's Inositol Heanicotinate. Is that not the same one you guys are using?
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No, that's the non-flush type. Not very effective at all. I don't know anyone who has had success with it.
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Does anyone know if there are any similarities between testosterone (my cure) and niacin? They both have had success for POIS and I wonder if studying the 2 together would lead to any more clues?
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I saw something over at the "other place" a while back that clicked as a tie in between the two.
I can't find it now though, don't even remember who it was that posted it.
But aside from the other effects that testosterone have, they interact as well with this catecholamine system,
where I think we have some common problem.
The other thing about the nature of the failure of this system, is that important neurotransmitters are left depleted, and it takes time
to reestablish them. This also gives the impression that the body is struggling to replace something, and the sooner it does it
the sooner we feel better. So this ties in very well with your perception that it has to do with sperm regeneration, except in this case it's
the catecholamine precursors.
I want to set up a couple of threads to investigate some of this stuff in more detail.
One to dig into and even test remedies based on the catecholamine "theory", and another would be this, the tie in
between testosterone and niacin as relates to this theory,
It might have to wait till after the Indiegogo campaign gets going and a couple of site mods get put in till I have time.
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Where can I buy Niacin? The one I found at my local shoppers drug mart was a phony.
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Where can I buy Niacin? The one I found at my local shoppers drug mart was a phony.
It’s easiest to find in health supplies rather than drug stores. If a drugstore has it they usually only have it in combination with other vitamins and in low doses.
The health supply stores have herbs, and natural remedies, including all kinds of different vitamin combinations.
If you still can’t find it, there are a lot of on-line outlets. Look for Nature’s Way Niacin, bottle of 100 capsules of 100mg. That can be found at EBay, or a number of other on-line outlets.
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Thanks. I just purchased it from iherb.
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What are the risks compared to niacinamide to niacin?
Have you ever examination your liver?
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Thanks. I just purchased it from iherb.
Quoting myself. I purchased it and received it a few days ago. I took a pill after masturbating and ejaculating. I felt reduced sickness, but definitely was still tired and felt a little hungover (I don't drink). But I think I was still socially sane, rather than the awkward self. I took masturbated the following day and took another pill, symptoms are at least 85% gone. I don't feel the hangover but I do feel a slight "burning" in my chest that I usually get from POIS. It's not as severe but this is definitely a good start.
While it isn't a cure, it definitely is a compromise.
Thank you POIS center.
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Daveman is not online unfortionally..... ::)
I am in the mood for a fun trial!! but dont know how often and how long i can stretch it.
so...: does enybody know how often I can ejaculate after taken niacin and between howmanny hours?
(22:22:09) tantalus: does niacin protect me still after 3 or 6 hours?
(22:22:39) tantalus: so may i have more as only one time an orgasm?
(22:23:38) tantalus: and whot is the maximum time after taken niacine to have sex again?
dont let me wait to long ;) thanks :-*
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Daveman is not online unfortionally..... ::)
I am in the mood for a fun trial!! but dont know how often and how long i can stretch it.
so...: does enybody know how often I can ejaculate after taken niacin and between howmanny hours?
(22:22:09) tantalus: does niacin protect me still after 3 or 6 hours?
(22:22:39) tantalus: so may i have more as only one time an orgasm?
(22:23:38) tantalus: and whot is the maximum time after taken niacine to have sex again?
dont let me wait to long ;) thanks :-*
Tantalus, sounds like fun:)
My experiences is as many as you can handle in that time. If the current thinking holds true the Niacin should protect you.
JT
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Daveman is not online unfortionally..... ::)
I am in the mood for a fun trial!! but dont know how often and how long i can stretch it.
so...: does enybody know how often I can ejaculate after taken niacin and between howmanny hours?
(22:22:09) tantalus: does niacin protect me still after 3 or 6 hours?
(22:22:39) tantalus: so may i have more as only one time an orgasm?
(22:23:38) tantalus: and whot is the maximum time after taken niacine to have sex again?
dont let me wait to long ;) thanks :-*
Tantalus, sounds like fun:)
My experiences is as many as you can handle in that time. If the current thinking holds true the Niacin should protect you.
JT
Perhaps we're each different, but As I understand it, all the niacin is out of the system after 6 hours.
But it seems that there is a peak at about 1 hour and after that it starts to fade off, finally getting to zero after six.
So my guess would be that the best would be within about 3 hrs.
While niacin is in your system, it "Seems" to convert the niacin, during your orgasms, into somethign the system needs. Each orgasm uses up some of the niacin.
I can only do one, more than that and I feel the effects of POIS more strongly. Others have better luck, can do more.
I can do a second orgasm within 2 days (with niacin each time), but then have to wait about a week at least to "catch up".
But that's me.
let us know what happens in your case!!
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h? Daveman, precious man! :-* Feel touched by your so honest and precise answer (s). Your wive must have done a verry good choice to choose you as friend. I feel almost envy.....but serious now....I will keep the forum informed about my niacin adventure. Until now no drama after my orgy yesterday.
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h? Daveman, precious man! :-* Feel touched by your so honest and precise answer (s). Your wive must have done a verry good choice to choose you as friend. I feel almost envy.....but serious now....I will keep the forum informed about my niacin adventure. Until now no drama after my orgy yesterday.
That's great about the no drama after so much actiivty!
Good for you!
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After the fourth orgasm and fourth intake of Niacin, it's safe to say it actually works quite well. I still feel the POIS but not as significantly.
Question though, how safe is Niacin if I'm taking 100mg 4 times a week? I plan on cutting back to make once every two weeks (I'm single). I read that it can cause liver damage or worse, blindness.
I just had my first flush last night too. My skin was all itchy and it was incredibly uncomfortable. I bared through it though.
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After the fourth orgasm and fourth intake of Niacin, it's safe to say it actually works quite well. I still feel the POIS but not as significantly.
Question though, how safe is Niacin if I'm taking 100mg 4 times a week? I plan on cutting back to make once every two weeks (I'm single). I read that it can cause liver damage or worse, blindness.
I just had my first flush last night too. My skin was all itchy and it was incredibly uncomfortable. I bared through it though.
I THINK 100mg 4 times per week is probably OK, although it wouldn't hurt to check the liver every 4 months or so.
Taking it often might lower your sensitivity to it meaning you may have to start taking more to get the same effects.
As far as the itch and burning sensation, it seems you start to get used to it.
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Hey Guys,
Dropping by because i've gotten some requests for an update on my Niacinamide use.
I've pretty much discontinued use altogether. From the few months that I used it, I did find that it was a semi effective way to mitigate symptoms when you found yourself in the midst of POIS. But I also found that it wasn't a very effective way to prevent the onset of those symptoms. To get relief I used to take between 200 and 400mg. I'd always start with 200 and elevate depending on how I felt.
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Thanks EGordon,
Those who have found it effective have taken for 1000mg to 1500mg. I don't know if it works only for those that also have success with niacin and / or to the same degree, or if it works even for those for which niacin doesn't work.
Still more work to do with niacinamide testing I'm afraid!
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Guys, I believe that niacin has helped in my case as have other supplements.
I believe that inflammation is one of the primary causes for my POIS in my case. I am 25 years old and doing my best to work in my family's business. My groin discomfort, Eye inflammation and cognitive symptoms seem to go hand in hand. These things are especially bad the first day after orgasm with my hardly able to open my eyes outdoors. I also have cardiovascular problems with improper breathing and so fourth. Whether the inflammation is caused by an allergic reaction I have yet to discover. I have not had much relief from benadryl but Niacin has helped me. My groin discomfort feels like a very inflamed prostatitis but I have had it checked.
As I mentioned before, My cognitive symptoms are pretty sever and can be almost schizophrenic like. There was a span of about 5 or 6 months where I was taking Niacin prior to orgasm and some vitamins afterwards and I had no discomfort/flu symptoms and I had reduced cognitive symptoms.
Niacin has without question helped me, but more so before than now. Sometimes I must take 200 to get a flush other times I must take 500 to get a flush. I still am not sure what the root cause of the problem is. When I was feeling better I began to realize just how mentally debilitated I was. Inflammation is definitely a big part of it for me, whether or not it is caused by allergic reactions I am not sure. These things could lead to circulation issues and other things. The catecholamines, as kurtosis had mentioned, also has a lot to do with orgasm.
I also wonder how a possible allergic or inflammation problems could hurt dopamine during orgasm. While we haven't found a cure, we are getting closer.
If anybody would like to chat message me.
Jon.
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Jon I was like you a while ago with all of the eye symptoms. My eyes looked bloodshot as if I just got high off of something. I guess just managing my condition is making it better. I no longer get the eye problem. The different dosages you are describing probably has to do with what you had previously eaten (obviously not telling you something you don't know). As for the dopamine I don't think it hurts it. But if the area is inflammed it might do something to it, like alter its pathways or production.
In response to a previous post. I think Niacin makes POIS worse if you take it after orgasm. At least that is how it is for me. I guess it might be circulating more histamine, leading to a more aggravated response. That is why using it beforehand works the best. It uses all of it up for nothing but a niacin flush. Taking niacin first, and than having the big "O", the sperm allergy or whatever it is is not met with histamines, leading it to further and be easily expelled by the body whether that is through the blood stream or bowels.
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Guys, I believe that niacin has helped in my case as have other supplements.
I believe that inflammation is one of the primary causes for my POIS in my case. I am 25 years old and doing my best to work in my family's business. My groin discomfort, Eye inflammation and cognitive symptoms seem to go hand in hand. These things are especially bad the first day after orgasm with my hardly able to open my eyes outdoors. I also have cardiovascular problems with improper breathing and so fourth. Whether the inflammation is caused by an allergic reaction I have yet to discover. I have not had much relief from benadryl but Niacin has helped me. My groin discomfort feels like a very inflamed prostatitis but I have had it checked.
As I mentioned before, My cognitive symptoms are pretty sever and can be almost schizophrenic like. There was a span of about 5 or 6 months where I was taking Niacin prior to orgasm and some vitamins afterwards and I had no discomfort/flu symptoms and I had reduced cognitive symptoms.
Niacin has without question helped me, but more so before than now. Sometimes I must take 200 to get a flush other times I must take 500 to get a flush. I still am not sure what the root cause of the problem is. When I was feeling better I began to realize just how mentally debilitated I was. Inflammation is definitely a big part of it for me, whether or not it is caused by allergic reactions I am not sure. These things could lead to circulation issues and other things. The catecholamines, as kurtosis had mentioned, also has a lot to do with orgasm.
I also wonder how a possible allergic or inflammation problems could hurt dopamine during orgasm. While we haven't found a cure, we are getting closer.
If anybody would like to chat message me.
Jon.
As far as the change in dosage, I found the same. I seemed to go on a run of needing to take at least 500mg just to get a light flush.
But it seemed to boil down to two things:
The niacin has to be fresh, and when not used kept WELL sealed and in a cool dark place. I got a new supply and BAM super effective.
Also there is no way around the fasting limitations. AT LEAST 4 hrs if you want to do it with 200mg or less. (It seems this includes alcohol) Any liver intensive consumption may require even more abstencion prior.
I was quite worried that it was wearing off, until I tested at 7 am after getting up (and fasting for 10 hours). Thank goodness I only took 100mg. I got a good solid flush and had next to no POIS.
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Daveman and Going less crazy, Thank you for the responses.
Yes, I have been taking the niacin before orgasm. It is much more effective this way as you have stated.
Going less crazy, How have you stopped the eye problems? The burning, swelling and such is driving me crazy.
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Just came across a very interesting article on Niacin and Slow release forms of Niacin. In it, he argues that the Immediate release (nicotinic Acid) is not only safe but VERY beneficial when taken at higher doses than the Recommended Daily Allowance. However the danger to the liver is not with the Immediate release, but rather the Slow release forms.
Check it out.
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/mar2007_atd_01.htm
Cheers,,
JT
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Just came across a very interesting article on Niacin and Slow release forms of Niacin. In it, he argues that the Immediate release (nicotinic Acid) is not only safe but VERY beneficial when taken at higher doses than the Recommended Daily Allowance. However the danger to the liver is not with the Immediate release, but rather the Slow release forms.
Check it out.
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/mar2007_atd_01.htm
Cheers,,
JT
Thanks JT,
I bought some 500mg capsules, that didn't say slow release, but were! I took 500mg, in 200 mg amounts (the last 100 of course) and when I didn't get a flsuh I stopped. About 1 our later I started to get a flush which lasted longer than normal.
I didn't have an orgasm, because had given up for the night, but the next day my liver was very sensitive. Could hardly eat for the whole day!!
Even for the next 2 days I was out of sorts!!
Very surprised that the bottle didn't say slow release anywhere. even warned of the potential for light flush.
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niacinamide is or not the long term release niacin ?? or non flush version.. i'm confused
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There are roughly four types:
Pure niacin
Buffered naicin
chemically altered naicin
Niacinamide
The Buffered is regular naicin with a coating that prevents quick integration into the system, and releases amounts slowly over time.
Chemically altered are chemicals based on niacin but designed not to flush (among other things.)
And niacinamide which I guess is a chemically altered naicin too but with the difference that it does seem to be effective (for our purposes)
The chemically altered (not niacinamide) works porrly if at all for POIS. They say that it doesn't really even work for the typical function of reducing cholesterol.
The buffered is complicated becasue it realeases the niacin slowly and really makes it difficult for it to do the conversions it needs to do to help prevent POIS symptoms.
Niacinamide, most who have tried it say, works well if taken in doses of over 1000mg. Since it doesn't give a flush, it's hard to measure if you've taken enough. But it seems that it is much less dependent on stomach content. If I remember well, niacinamide can be take daily reducing the need to take it exactly one hour before orgasm... but I'm not real sure of those details. We really need to work more with niacinamide.
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what is for you guys a good flush? and a light one?
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For me a light flush may vary between slight body warmth, almost internal, to slightly flushed face.
A good flush is red pulsing face and scalp with sensation of mild sunburn, and red and sunburn sensation on parts of arms and legs. Accompanied by intermittent goosbumps. Can include mild twitching of external stomach muscles.
If it gets stronger than that and causes temporary nausea or internal stomach rumblings, it's too strong.
The best is on the low side of the upper border between good and too strong.
With a flush like that it's best to wait at least an hour from onset for best results. The peak, when it's good lasts about 15 min. and then it flattens out and diminishes over the next hour.
You should wait until it has leveled off and begun to diminish at least.
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i'm using the one from Solgar: http://www.solgarsuplementos.es/nav/productos/productos/p_vitaminaB/Niacina100mg_Comprimidos.html
the weard thing that appens to me is that the only way to get a good flush is eating something after taking one tablet.
in this way i get it even with only 100mg. the good thing is that if i O after one hour more or less then i'm pois free.
i tried to take it in the first morning with empty stomach but i only got a light flush.
i've never tried other brands.
does it happens the same to someonelse?
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what is for you guys a good flush? and a light one?
for me a good flush is when my skin reddens. Am dark and i can see my skin redden. And i also go into a massive scratching frenzy from niacin making my body extremely itchy. All that last about 15 - 20 and cools that to slight itching.
A weak one feels like when i cool down. I barely itch and my skin does not redden.
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i'm using the one from Solgar: http://www.solgarsuplementos.es/nav/productos/productos/p_vitaminaB/Niacina100mg_Comprimidos.html
the weard thing that appens to me is that the only way to get a good flush is eating something after taking one tablet.
in this way i get it even with only 100mg. the good thing is that if i O after one hour more or less then i'm pois free.
i tried to take it in the first morning with empty stomach but i only got a light flush.
i've never tried other brands.
does it happens the same to someonelse?
Wow, that sounds like the opposite to me. In the morning I get a strong flush with very little.
Do you have a "normal day", that is sleep at night and awake during the day? (Some work at night for instance.).
I have only recently tried eating shortly after taking the beginning of the flush. Doesn't seem to change much.
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what is for you guys a good flush? and a light one?
for me a good flush is when my skin reddens. Am dark and i can see my skin redden. And i also go into a massive scratching frenzy from niacin making my body extremely itchy. All that last about 15 - 20 and cools that to slight itching.
A weak one feels like when i cool down. I barely itch and my skin does not redden.
Interesting. Itching has been mentioned a fair bit. I don't get hardly any itching, but do get a sunburn feeling. Like you it last from 15 to 20 minutes.
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what is for you guys a good flush? and a light one?
for me a good flush is when my skin reddens. Am dark and i can see my skin redden. And i also go into a massive scratching frenzy from niacin making my body extremely itchy. All that last about 15 - 20 and cools that to slight itching.
A weak one feels like when i cool down. I barely itch and my skin does not redden.
Interesting. Itching has been mentioned a fair bit. I don't get hardly any itching, but do get a sunburn feeling. Like you it last from 15 to 20 minutes.
no way i wish i didnt have to itch, i cant doing anything for 20 minutes because am constantly iching and the skin around my armpit form bigger ripples and look more folded/wrinkled, do you get this to.
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i'm using the one from Solgar: http://www.solgarsuplementos.es/nav/productos/productos/p_vitaminaB/Niacina100mg_Comprimidos.html
the weard thing that appens to me is that the only way to get a good flush is eating something after taking one tablet.
in this way i get it even with only 100mg. the good thing is that if i O after one hour more or less then i'm pois free.
i tried to take it in the first morning with empty stomach but i only got a light flush.
i've never tried other brands.
does it happens the same to someonelse?
Wow, that sounds like the opposite to me. In the morning I get a strong flush with very little.
Do you have a "normal day", that is sleep at night and awake during the day? (Some work at night for instance.).
I have only recently tried eating shortly after taking the beginning of the flush. Doesn't seem to change much.
I usually go to sleep at 1.00am and wake up around 9.00am.
another thing i' ve recently noticed is that i can get a very strong flush without caring about eating if i make some moderate phisical activity . for example after taking 100mg, i started cleaning home. in 10 minutes I got a very strong flush which consits for me in a very red face and itching sensation on my chest
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what is for you guys a good flush? and a light one?
for me a good flush is when my skin reddens. Am dark and i can see my skin redden. And i also go into a massive scratching frenzy from niacin making my body extremely itchy. All that last about 15 - 20 and cools that to slight itching.
A weak one feels like when i cool down. I barely itch and my skin does not redden.
Interesting. Itching has been mentioned a fair bit. I don't get hardly any itching, but do get a sunburn feeling. Like you it last from 15 to 20 minutes.
no way i wish i didnt have to itch, i cant doing anything for 20 minutes because am constantly iching and the skin around my armpit form bigger ripples and look more folded/wrinkled, do you get this to.
for me only red face, actually sunburn sensation and some itching on my chest skin
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i'm using the one from Solgar: http://www.solgarsuplementos.es/nav/productos/productos/p_vitaminaB/Niacina100mg_Comprimidos.html
the weard thing that appens to me is that the only way to get a good flush is eating something after taking one tablet.
in this way i get it even with only 100mg. the good thing is that if i O after one hour more or less then i'm pois free.
i tried to take it in the first morning with empty stomach but i only got a light flush.
i've never tried other brands.
does it happens the same to someonelse?
Wow, that sounds like the opposite to me. In the morning I get a strong flush with very little.
Do you have a "normal day", that is sleep at night and awake during the day? (Some work at night for instance.).
I have only recently tried eating shortly after taking the beginning of the flush. Doesn't seem to change much.
I usually go to sleep at 1.00am and wake up around 9.00am.
another thing i' ve recently noticed is that i can get a very strong flush without caring about eating if i make some moderate phisical activity . for example after taking 100mg, i started cleaning home. in 10 minutes I got a very strong flush which consits for me in a very red face and itching sensation on my chest
Yes, I agree. If you do more strenuous activity just after taking the niacin, it tends to bring out the flush. If you take the niacin and just sit int the bed and wait, you areless likely to get the flush than if you get up and do a bit of exercise.
A couple of times, the sex itself brought out the flush.... a little too late by that time.
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i have that flush i was scared ..... so i stop taking b3 , pls guide guys .....
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i have that flush i was scared ..... so i stop taking b3 , pls guide guys .....
Sameer, the flush is a bit uncomfortable, but nothing at all terrible.
It passes in 20 minutes and after that you are home free.
The world is full of stuff that is a little uncomfortable. But everyone goes through the same.
You push though and live the better part.
After the flush, the better part is much less POIS. Worth it.
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thanku
I dont remember feeling better ??
should i try again ??????????????? BOSS !!!!!!!!!!?????????/
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thanku
I dont remember feeling better ??
should i try again ??????????????? BOSS !!!!!!!!!!?????????/
Sure.
Although the flush is a little uncomfortable it is "healthy" and completely normal. It does good things for your body, helps flush out the cells.
But the rules are very strict. If they are not followed exactly it's quite possible the niacin won't work.
1. Use a pure niacin form, like nature's Way, 100mg capsule.
2. Fast at least 6 hours before taking the niacin (especially the first times)
3. Take 150 mg niacin. You may have to take one capsule and open a second to take one half, powder under the tongue.
4. Wait about 15 to 20 minutes for the flush. (if there is no flush, take another 50mg and wait another 10 minutes)
5. Once the flush starts, wait 45 minutes more!! This wait is quite important.
6. The do your thing!
Follow these steps exactly!
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I generally take Niacin after I ejaculate. It works but probably not as effective as your method above. I'll try yours after.
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Last weeks I have been trying what this Vitamine B3 can do for me.
I started with Vitamine B complex, one's a day 100 mg.
That seems to be very healthy and will be a base for other B?s. Though it does nothing to reduce on POIS symptoms.
Then I tried niacinamide, about 3 hours fasting and 1 hour before O. I used 500 mg the first time.
It was not very successful but my complaints were less then they used to be. About a 40 to 60 percent but they lasted still 4 days as always.
After that I increased the quantity several times up to 1500 mg yesterday and today I didn't notice anything of POIS ! I hope this will last the coming days ! ::)
I also tried niacin.
First 100 and 200 mg which did nothing at all.
Then after 5 hours fasting and 300 mg about 50 minutes before O my POIS was somewhat reduced the next 4 days but not very impressingly. I had a rather strong flush with that 300 mg and therefore I didn't dare to raise the quantity further.
Though, I have to go on??.Today I noticed there are suppliers who have niacin 500 mg tablets available and they are sold well, so nobody seems to get any damage by the flush with that quantity ! ;D
Of course I am satisfied with the result with the niacinamide but I like the niacin flush for more than one reason.
At first I think it a very pleasant experience - particularly with cold wether. ;)
It is also a kind of ?marker? indeed to know when it's O.K. Only, with high quantities the flush lasts very long, though decreasing.
I think when the peak has past it is time I can have an O.
A third thing has nothing to do with POIS and is a bit personal. I have a slowly increasing problem with my legs for years now, what makes walking difficult.
I noticed after a niacin flush a remarkable improvement. I don't expect a healing but it is worth to try what happens with regular use of niacin.
Before long I'm going to experience with a higher dose of niacin.
I bought Swanson brand 500mg capsules. It says that they are pure niacin, but they must be slow release, because 500 mg did nothing (at least initially) After having no flush, I made the mistake of having sex! Had fairly bad POIS for 5 days afterwards. The flush finally DID come, but too late, after the orgasm.
If you want to take 500 (which is a LOT) take it using the same 100 mg capsules that gave you the flush with 300. But if you got the flush at 300, I wouldn't take 500.
Probably better to wait longer after the peak of the flush. THATs when the niacin converts into the "good stuff", AFTER the peak of the flush.
I'm going to have to try niacinamide.
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Niacin doesn't work for my self preventing Pois before orgasm, but, it works if i take with POIS.
If I have a flush, I will have some hours off less symptom of POIS, and, after that, the symptoms are equal.
I want to know if this is normal to people that Niacin doesn't work or, if doesn't work before orgasm, it shouldn?'t help after POIS?
I'm asking that because, maybe, I only need to find the right way to use Niacin for my body...
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Niacin doesn't work for my self preventing Pois before orgasm, but, it works if i take with POIS.
If I have a flush, I will have some hours off less symptom of POIS, and, after that, the symptoms are equal.
This is correct even for people for whom the Niacin works (like myself). E.g. if I take Niacin in POIS and do not have O after that, I will feel slight symptoms reduction for several hours and after that all symptoms will be back.
But if I have POIS and I want to get rid of it, I'm taking Niacin, waiting an hour and then have an O! (this is important) , after that POIS symptoms are gone.
Victor
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last night I had a NE (actually it was not that nocturnal, i woke up immediately after, looked at the time, it was 7.00am) .
a couple of hour later (when i finally found the strenght to stand up) I took 100mg niacin on an empty stomach.
in 20 minutes got a strong flush that lasted for 40 minutes more or less.
afterwards I started feeling better and with 80% less of symptoms for the whole day.
at the moment i took the pill, POIS didn't reach the peak of symptoms, because I was not active yet (didn't have breakfast, didn't go to bathroom, still laying on bed)
but something different happened to me a week ago.
I had the need to have an O and I hadn't got niacin with me.
afterwards I had a walk and could take 100mg of niacin an hour later, when the symptoms had already reached their peak (i fasted for 4 hours more or less).
immediately afterwards my symptoms disappeared, but in 20-30min i got the flush and the symptoms came back and lasted for the whole day long.
so maybe to have more flexibility with niacin, it would be enough have an O at night, then take niacin and going to sleep after getting the flush. I'll test it next week and inform you
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In general, taking the niacin after could reduce the symptoms temporarily, but they do come back, which seems to be the case for your incident a week ago.
Perhaps having taken the niacin before your POIS actually had time to dig in could have been enough for you to prevent it.
I have taken niacin "Just before", a couple of times, when I was too horny to wait for the flush to peak or pass. For me, the relief has been low under those circumstances.
"They say" that the ideal is to wait a good hour or even more after the flush to let the niacin convert into the best elements to "prevent" the symptoms.
It is said also that if you have POIS because maybe you didn't have niaicin at the time, or for some other reason didn't achieve flush, that at some later time you can
take niacin, wait an hour and have another orgasm, and that stops the POIS more completely.
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I only take 100mg of Niacin immediately after O and I get a mild headache in the morning. I suppose it's better than having POIS for a few days.
Has anyone consulted their doctor about the precautions of Niacin? I have been reading online and long term usage may lead to Liver damage. I've been using it for about 2 months now and it has been a Godsend. But if this can cause more damage than prevent, then I might have to find another alternative.
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It wouldn't hurt to check our livers a couple of times per year, but generally speaking, liver damage is said to be more prevalent in high doses 2000mg to 3000mg PER DAY. Even then I understand that it happens in 2 to 3% of the users. http://www.drugs.com/sfx/niacin-side-effects.html for instance. Even so, the majority of high dosage users report few problems.
Niacin is used for POIS in much lower doses and with a frequency way below the danger threshold.
There is always potential for allergic reactions to any drug, which should be watched out for or any preconditions that could be adversely affected by niacin. Check all the internet references and then check with your doctor if you have any doubts.