POISCENTER

POIS Cause/Treatment Discussions => General Alternative Causes and Treatments of POIS => Topic started by: swell on March 09, 2019, 09:24:56 PM

Title: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: swell on March 09, 2019, 09:24:56 PM

I never paid attention to "hypo" hypothyroidism, neither did my docs.  I could be wrong but I believe docs under-diagnose thyroid dysfunction a) because of limitations in testing, b) limited efficacy of medications, c) historical schisms/wars between modern medicine and molecular medicine.

Thyroid is essential to:
Cardio: reduced cardiac output, reduced vasodilation, reduced blood flow to many organs.
Brain development.  Brain fog, day dreaming, mental state, speech, focus, impairments are related to it.
Reproductive:  normal reproductive physiology is impaired with too little thyroid hormone.
Growth: growth retardation, decrease in growth hormone levels (HGH).

Symptoms:
Fatigue, Sensitivity to cold, Constipation, Dry skin, Puffy face, hoarseness, weight gain, swelling, muscle weakness, hair loss.

Note: Your symptoms may be are the opposite of above, i.e. "hyper-thyroidsim" (symptoms like: hyper, sensitivity to heat, diahorrea, weight loss).  This usually results when your immune systems starts to attack thyroid leading to a thyroid "dysfunction", where you might swing in state of hypo-and-hyper (hashimoto/graves).

Last week I started Iodine supplementation - the rate limiting factor for T3, T4.  A week ago started with 300mg/day and right now peaking at 1250mg/day.  I dont plan to increase any more.  My body temps ranged 96.4 to 96.8 through-out day.  After one week, they have risen to 97.2 / 97.3 already.  I believe this was and still is the reason for my sluggish metabolic rate/gastric emptying, and perhaps the cause of too much swelling on my face and extremities AND hairloss.

Today I started taking L-Tyrosine at a small dose of 300mg/day which is a co-factor for T3, T4 synthesis.  Took also B6, Vit C and NAC (so Tyrosine doesn't go towards the melanin pathway)

Whether T3/T4 precursor prove to be beneficial, I should know in 2 months, but my initial feelings are very good.   What do you all think on thyroid dysfunction?  Also has anyone tried hyper-baric oxygen treatment?

Title: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: Vandemolen on March 10, 2019, 06:58:08 AM

Before I knew I had POIS I thought I had hypothyroidism. I googled the symptoms and I had a lot of them (similair to POIS). I did a blood test. My TSH was too high and my T4 was ok but in the low range. My doctor gave me levothyroxin. I took it for 3 weeks but it did not help me. Now I am in a POIS period (without having sex, I think it is urticaria) I checked my TSH again. It was even higher. But my T4 was also a bit higher. I am not in the range to test Levothyroxin again. But I hope it will work you. Good luck

Title: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: swell on March 10, 2019, 07:14:32 PM

Vandemolen, I am new to this hypothyrodoism stuff, but learning fast.  My whole family is comprised of doctors so while I love them, I understand how they work :)  I have always asked my doc that my temps are low and they never did these tests on me.   I think your tests TSH/T4 revealed too less, you should get a comprehensive panel testing:
TSH (Must)
Free T4 (must)
Free T3 (must)
Reverse T3 (must)
Thyroglubulin antibodies (advisable)
Thyroid Peroxidase antibodies (advisable)
TSH Receptor antibodies (advisable)

And talking about preaching what you do, I am going solo and did not have any tests done since I dont keep insurance.  By the way, I used to have significant urticaria all my life "during" POIS until I started SamE, Glutathione/NAC.  You can try that if you still have urticaria.  I now get a milder form which I call it blotched skin (leathery, blotchy, shiny, dry skin) and recently Iodine which I started on POIS 2nd day reduced it to even milder levels.  And wooho, my POIS period ended today, I think it went easier this time with Iodine stack, though I will form opinion in 2 months time as this can be a one-time fluke.

Certainly follow your doc, though I think instead of synthroids, the basic molecules are safer provided you can do your homework (safety/toxicity, co-enzymes/co-factors, various metabolism pathways) and know when to give up and get a doc help.   I think taking Iodine/Tyrosine/Selenium and cofactors is safe and any excess that your thyroid AND brain tissue (since Iodine/Tyrosine passes blood brain barrier) does not consume will get excreted through urine.  Caution on Selenium to keep it under 400mg (I take 100mg). 

Quote from: Vandemolen on March 10, 2019, 06:58:08 AM

Before I knew I had POIS I thought I had hypothyroidism. I googled the symptoms and I had a lot of them (similair to POIS). I did a blood test. My TSH was too high and my T4 was ok but in the low range. My doctor gave me levothyroxin. I took it for 3 weeks but it did not help me. Now I am in a POIS period (without having sex, I think it is urticaria) I checked my TSH again. It was even higher. But my T4 was also a bit higher. I am not in the range to test Levothyroxin again. But I hope it will work you. Good luck

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: Hopeoneday on March 11, 2019, 05:45:57 AM

Swell, do not suplement to much of trace elements,
it can be bad for you.

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: Vandemolen on March 11, 2019, 08:05:06 AM

I did a special Thyriod blood test at the hospital. Came out negative. I just finished a bottle of Glutathione. Did not help me against urticaria. A few weeks ago I also took Sam-e for a few weeks. Did not help me. I stopped because Sam-e can give you sleeping problems.

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: FernandoPOIS on March 11, 2019, 09:28:14 AM

My symptoms are more like hyperthyroidism. I have difficulty gaining weight.

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: Vandemolen on March 11, 2019, 10:01:30 AM

Quote from: Fernando from Brazil on March 11, 2019, 09:28:14 AM

My symptoms are more like hyperthyroidism. I have difficulty gaining weight.

Before I was 25 years old I also used to have a lot of problems to gain weight. I was skinny. I started eating fastfood to gain weight: pizza, fries. But nothing helped. Untill I stopped with football (soccer). In 1 year I gained 20 kilo. Then it became very hard to lose weight. Also because I developped a bad diet. And a first I was happy that I was not skinny anymore. After a few years I noticed my fat belly, went back to sports and tried to lose weight. But I did not succeed. Later I stopped eating candy and chocolat. Now it is a bit better, but I still have to lose at least 5 kg.

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: swell on March 11, 2019, 02:57:07 PM

Really appreciate EVERYONE's feedback/tips/critique specially nanna1 inputs, you guys have helped me unravel my POIS (which was all bottled up in me for 31 yrs, damn!).  So I am really interested to know your views.   

Vandermolen:  Thyroid does that, takes you through weight gain and weight loss phases (hypo and hyper).  I was super skinny and now normal weight but I have to struggle keeping it normal otherwise it shoots up like 15 pounds in mere 3-4 days.  About L-glutathione (reduced), it gets inactivated by enzymes in stomach.  The trick is: N-Acetyl-Glutathione or Liposomal Glutathione, or L-Glutathione with Vitamin C and Milk Thistle and Alpha Lipoic which help convert back any oxidised glutathione back to its reduced/active form.

HopeOneday:   Too much of anything obviously can be toxic, but I am interested to know why not supplement with trace elements?  I have read very good things about trace element supplementation as well getting the huge daily value of Potassium from food sources (for metabolic processes which I think are central to POIS)

Not medically used, but 2 ballpark tests for hypo-thyroidism are:
- waking up temperature.  If it is more than 1 degree less consistently, indicates slower metabolism/swelling etc.  Mine has been ~2 degree less consistently. 
- Iodine patch test:  apply diluted lugols on a body part.  If the brown disappears quickly say an hour, indicates iodine deficiency. 

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: swell on March 12, 2019, 02:08:09 AM

It seems several POIS'ers have before cured their POIS with thyroid treatment?.   But it is nowhere mentioned in 'summary of treatments' which I usually only reference, maybe Quantum has context on this issue?  It seems in POIS, there is not a deficiency of T4, but instead it is an impaired conversion process of T4 into T3.  The longer the impairment is untreated the more messy your thyroid becomes (starts to switche between hypo and hyper making treatment very tricky).  Taking Synthroid does not help in hypo.  Taking T3 will help.  But docs dont prescribe T3.  Why? (need to research)   

Few posts:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1254.msg12077#msg12077

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=987.msg17462#msg17462

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: Quantum on March 12, 2019, 10:01:19 AM

Quote from: swell on March 12, 2019, 02:08:09 AM

It seems several POIS'ers have before cured their POIS with thyroid treatment?.   But it is nowhere mentioned in 'summary of treatments' which I usually only reference, maybe Quantum has context on this issue?  It seems in POIS, there is not a deficiency of T4, but instead it is an impaired conversion process of T4 into T3.  The longer the impairment is untreated the more messy your thyroid becomes (starts to switche between hypo and hyper making treatment very tricky).  Taking Synthroid does not help in hypo.  Taking T3 will help.  But docs dont prescribe T3.  Why? (need to research)   

Few posts:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1254.msg12077#msg12077

https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=987.msg17462#msg17462

Hi swell,

There is no definite member case yet, that would show that there could be a type of POIS that respond to thyroid supplementation.  There are some minor reports referring to it, like those you have given the link to, but there is no member that have made follow ups and showed that his POIS had been in control for at least 80% for a few months ( that is my criteria for including a method of control in my POIS Types Chart).

About T3 use and prescribing, it is not in the current medical practice to do so, because T4 only supplement is established for decades and seems to work for almost every cases.  In the body, there is much more T4 than T3, so fixing T3 level has a major effect on hypothyroidism.
 
If you want a more refined tuning of your thyroid function, including a combination of T4 and T3 supplementation, you will have to consult a Endocrinologist , since all general practitioner will work with T4 only.

It is important to have medical supervision if you want to adjust your thyroid function, because getting good results is all about fine tuning, and you cannot get this right without lab tests for TSH, and dosing T4 + T3 calls for someone specialized in these matters.

Also, know that "Wilson syndrome", if you read about it, is still a very controversial diagnosis, not recognized yet by mainstream science ( it is thought to be linked to conversion problem of T4 to T3 ).  There may be something to clarify and learn there, but for now it is still early to state anything, and caution is advised ( see official position of American Thryoid Association here: http://www.thyroid.org/american-thyroid-association-statement-on-wilsons-syndrome/ ). 

I am no specialist in thyroid function, so for a more scientific and clear advise on that, please see an endocrinologist.

You can find a good ref on T4/T3 here :  https://www.dietvsdisease.org/t4-t3-thyroid-hormone-levels/

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: demografx on March 12, 2019, 10:15:10 AM

Quantum, nice link on T4/T3...even EYE can understand it! :)

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: swell on March 14, 2019, 03:46:17 AM

Thank you much Quantum, your explanation on Thyroid is very insightful.  I do agree the users that have said that there POIS has been cured by treating thyroid, that they did not follow up properly, but I also think that it maybe is because they did 'cure it', and while jumping up and down they went to tahiti instead of looking back on POIS and helping us leftover POIS'ers.  But I do see they have left good knowledge behind (thanks to the forum and your effort) but yes they should have hung around longer to establish their credibility and their claim of getting cured.  I guess they did not care, or maybe they scummed  to the 'unspoken stigma' that thyroid carries (thanks to the likes of Mayo clinic, Pfizer, Merck manual, etc ... these big Titans that fought aging but hugely famous Nobel laureates who had questioned the emerging direction of modern western medicine which had begun to ignore efficacy of simple molecules like Niacin, organs like Thyroid, and instead today Mayo has given us chronic inflammation, Adderall, and allergies/immunology from just about everything ... even our children ... haha)

I realize I seem to be ranting, but one thing is clear, the widespread consensual statement, every doc reads something like "Synthroids work very well for almost all cases".  I have a feeling it does not work - that is to say it works for a pathetically less population than it is claimed to work for ... atleast thats what I'm finding, I realize online there could be lots of mis-information too ... so I'll cool down and in the meantime ... POIS journey will continue, sadly :), I promise I will not abandon you guys if my POIS indeed gets "cured" ... gotta love this word 'cured' ... feels good.

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: swell on March 15, 2019, 02:04:23 PM

Update:  Guys, a very surprising effect.  My face has very significantly shrunked.  My ankles are now literally like 70% of their previous size, so much swelling has vanished.  I dont know which one supplement has caused it:  I started these almost at same time, I suspect Fulvic though not sure.   

Iodine, L-Tyrosine, or Fulvic acid minerals/electrolytes. 
 

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: swell on March 20, 2019, 03:01:18 PM

I'm now almost certain that POIS is due to thyroid dysfunction.  I today saw pictures of 'xerosis' and it brought me to almost tears.  Guys this is exactly what happens to me for 7 days.  Nobody ever could help me when I showed them my face and skin after POIS.  No wonder Iodine/Glutathione/NAC/Milk Thistle all help POIS skin symptoms.   My swelling I believe is all gone.  My temps are stuck though at 96.7 to 97.1 tops.  I have reduced my Iodine to about 600mcg since I read it builds up transiently and could cause too much T4 after a while.  Guys I need your expertise, particularly nanna1's,  I dont mean to be disrespectful but you all are wasting time finding a cure.  POIS = thyroid dysfunction (hypo for 80% of us, and hyper for a smaller population).

These are skin POIS symptoms:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3726898/

Even nerve paresis few of us experience is due to Thyroid.   Need to find study that linked a case of facial paralysis with little benefit from anti-virals/anti-inflammatories but it dissappeared immediately after taking T3.  It pointed to a wider phenomenon.

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: Nas on March 20, 2019, 03:10:54 PM

Swell what are your general POIS symptoms?

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: swell on March 20, 2019, 03:52:31 PM

So all my POIS symptoms at a small tiny amount are present all the time with me (I'm very used to them, like I didn't even realize before taking Lugols Iodine 10 days ago that I had swelling even without POIS).  But during POIS, for 7 days, they become significantly heightened that I feel very very much bothered by them:
Lethargy, brain fog, social anxiety, anger, slurring of speech, dry eyes (sometimes growth under eyelids too), nerve paresis (bad itching close to area where nerve is weak - I try to extend and move my skin, numbness too in those areas), weird growth on skin like xanthoderma, xerosis).  Normally I do very high intensity exercise, but during POIS, I immediately develop swelling in face and ankles so I basically shut myself at home for 7 days.

Quote from: Nas on March 20, 2019, 03:10:54 PM

Swell what are your general POIS symptoms?

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: Nas on March 20, 2019, 04:19:11 PM

Did thyroid treatment help with these symptoms?

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: swell on March 20, 2019, 11:35:21 PM

YES, (except on the nerve paresis), and the amazing thing is, it effectively "reversed" the symptoms since I started it on the 2nd day after POIS.  And on swelling, it not only reversed the POIS symptoms, it went much much beyond beyond that.  On speech slurring, it appears as a scientific breakthrough ... speech slurring - stuttering mild ataxia & aphasia ... these things have no cure, let alone proper understanding.  The one symptom it had no effect was the nerve paresis.

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: Nas on March 21, 2019, 09:39:39 AM

Quote from: swell on March 20, 2019, 11:35:21 PM

YES, (except on the nerve paresis), and the amazing thing is, it effectively "reversed" the symptoms since I started it on the 2nd day after POIS.  And on swelling, it not only reversed the POIS symptoms, it went much much beyond beyond that.  On speech slurring, it appears as a scientific breakthrough ... speech slurring - stuttering mild ataxia & aphasia ... these things have no cure, let alone proper understanding.  The one symptom it had no effect was the nerve paresis.

So speech slurring is now reversed and now you can speak better?

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: swell on March 21, 2019, 12:27:19 PM

YES.  I had a lot of 'inhibition', and lethargy in speech, so intense lethargy that I would rather shut myself in a room than be outside.  My prepared/planned speech has always been good, but in interactive conversation, I would rather adopt silence than responding to a taunt/joke for e.g..  And now while I am still me, but the 'fear' factor is gone.  And I'm responding right back to any joke/taunt etc.  Its like I have ATP (adeno triphosphate) in my brain or speech cells suddenly.

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: Iwillbeatthis on March 21, 2019, 01:31:51 PM

What percentage of Lugols Iodine are you using? I don't have any skin problems but I do have bad speech problems brain fog and social anxiety and dry eyes so you think this will still be good for me?

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: Iwillbeatthis on March 21, 2019, 02:09:20 PM

I'm unsure whether to buy the 12% or the 7% apparently both are way over the daily limit so I'm not sure if that will have  bad effects internally but I guess its defo worth if it beats pois.

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: Iwillbeatthis on March 21, 2019, 03:37:03 PM

Btw I'm not asking for medical advice! I am just wondering your thoughts. I think I already have a high metabolism as I'm very skinny and I never put on any weight even I eat loads. I am also reading online that if not taken with selenium it can harm your thyroid so now I'm kinda confused.

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: Hopeoneday on March 21, 2019, 03:38:30 PM

Intresting.
I did want to try lugols for guts infection
(to treat posible guts infection relate to help me for pois).
I did read a lot about alternative medicine wich use lugoil to treat
different types of infections. (bacterial, parasitic...)
I couldn,t find it eny more in farmacy,
because it is not use "eny more oraly".
But i see that it can be buyed in some bio shops.

By the way Swell, what did i learned about thyroid is that functional medicine treat that disorder the the best.
They start to check from hypothalamus to reverse T3 hormones, lack of nutrients etc.

For oficial medicine, if yours TSH is 4.2 in range 1-4 , you are fine for them.
But actualy, if TSH 4 , 4,2 etc you are all redy in "hypo zone".

Here expleined, an web page with a lot of usefull tips.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGsV2Ob0tqk

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: Nas on March 21, 2019, 03:43:44 PM

So do you guys think it's worth while to do a thyroid test?

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: Hopeoneday on March 21, 2019, 08:32:17 PM

In this 40min video, if you read this video carefuly,
he mentions almost all the good things we mentioned in the forum here.
Methaylation, detox fases glutathione,
diet, leaky gut, autoimunity ...

From those advices he mention there,
we know that some people did cured theirs pois.
He talk fast but in 40min he did sayed allmoust all that is needed.

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: swell on March 25, 2019, 03:24:00 PM

This seems a really nice video, hopeoneday, thank you, I am going to go through it.  Guys I do think Thyroid/HPA axis is the key, I always knew it is the key, but I just did not know the human anatomy vocabulary, I have been living in such a dense fog, done great in school/college but damn I should have known thyroid before.   

Quote from: Hopeoneday on March 21, 2019, 08:32:17 PM

In this 40min video, if you read this video carefuly,
he mentions almost all the good things we mentioned in the forum here.
Methaylation, detox fases glutathione,
diet, leaky gut, autoimunity ...

From those advices he mention there,
we know that some people did cured theirs pois.
He talk fast but in 40min he did sayed allmoust all that is needed.

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: swell on March 25, 2019, 03:33:54 PM

I would say Nas, if you watch the video hopeoneday posted that has a series of tests ... I also posted the full list either in this thread or some other.  Yes if you can get the full panel (not just TSH and T4 ... that is useless) from on Endrocologist or some lab, we can interpret it here.   

Quote from: Nas on March 21, 2019, 03:43:44 PM

So do you guys think it's worth while to do a thyroid test?

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: swell on March 25, 2019, 03:53:07 PM

Iwillbeattthis, best is to see an Endocrologist (not a General Practitioner).  I cant advise anyone to experiment since I have no background in medical sciences.  I'm doing this to myself only because I'm very very careful.  But I can share my experience.   I order Lugols from amazon, its cheap price.  Its a liquid and one single drop is 2.5mg.  There are many ways to take it, I dilute it with distilled water.  4 drops of distilled water combined with one drop of Lugols gives you 5 total drops.  Since I have mercury fillings, so I put one drop (i.e. 500 mg) in an empty capsule and take it with water.  I also take Se and Zn as well L-Tyrosine (but Tyrosine is not appropriate if one has have schizophrenia - too much dopamine) .  This thing is very powerful with skin symptoms.  Damn, I had my entire life white film inside my lips, that is melting/breaking away, 90% gone.  Corner of my lip had severe itching, no doc could do anything about it, its 90% gone.  Swelling is eliminated.

Quote from: Iwillbeatthis on March 21, 2019, 01:31:51 PM

What percentage of Lugols Iodine are you using? I don't have any skin problems but I do have bad speech problems brain fog and social anxiety and dry eyes so you think this will still be good for me?

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: swell on April 22, 2019, 03:37:52 PM

Just an update:  Since last 3 weeks, I have tapered down on Iodine (now at 100mcg), and upped taking 'bovine dissected thyroid' (40-50mg) supplement.  Interestingly I noticed that my BP, pulse, and heart-rate went up significantly (to the point I got scared, pre-hypertension stage 130-140 / 80-90, pulse upto 92).  However in last week, all vitals have automatically returned to as they were before taking supplement.  More interestingly, when my BP went higher, my peripherals (ankles, hands, hair) felt very very good - I never felt as good, since I suffer from raynaud's.  BP is now averaging 110 / 65, pulse 65.  Temps are still low, 96.3 to 97.5 at tops when lunch gets digested.  Good news is, I have had 3 POIS free periods so far (with about 9 e's in each pois period).  I am still not 100% satisfied due to my nerve paresis having had zero change.  But now, I am no longer after multiple ejaculations confined to my room, I am socializing, chatting and happy with little to no skin changes.  Still continuing to monitor.  Any tips, cautions, comments, critique, welcome.   

One question: has anyone used Fulvic/Humic acid?  Its supposed to be very good, potent anti-inflammatory etc, I have tried single doses and it doesn't work well for me.  I get very pale/tired as if sick, with terrible nasal congestion at night.  I suspect, it takes 2 days of glutathione to feel better again (or maybe it take fulvic to get out of system in 2 days).  It almost feels like fulvic induces a mini-pois.

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: DEANNX on May 08, 2019, 10:25:27 AM

hi Swell, thanks for the info, I think I might have hyperthyroidism as I got almost complete opposite symptoms, ofc i will have to do a blood test to be sure, what supplements do you recommend i try for hyperthyroidism?????are you taking supplements only or also prescription drugs as well??

thanks

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: demografx on May 08, 2019, 11:22:43 AM

Quote from: DEANNX on May 08, 2019, 10:25:27 AM

What supplements do you recommend i try for hyperthyroidism? ? ? ?

Please, no offering or seeking of personal medical advice here at the forum. Ask your own personal doctor or health care practitioner. Thank you.

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: DEANNX on May 09, 2019, 04:56:33 AM

@demo ok sorry.

@Swell I did some google, it said that there risks involve in thyroid treatment, if you take hypothyroidism drug for a long time you might develop hyperthyroidism and vice versa. Have you talked to your doc about that and what did he say?

Thanks

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: swell on May 26, 2019, 05:52:07 PM

Could you tell me what your symptoms are, I cannot read your post well.  Also get me your average waking up temperature?  I dont get that information from anyone, it is quite simple to measure, just make sure you are not sick when you measure.

Yes, there is a risk in everything.  The concept is very simple.  T3 hormone is essential for the normal function of every organ in our body and importantly it is a key determinant of whether a supplement/molecule/compound you take is metabolized properly or not metabolized.  If you have less in your body, that means hypo-thyroidism.  If you have too much, it is hyper-thyroidism.  So the risk is very obvious, if your body gets too much T3 it is bad, if it has too less T3 that is bad.  The problem is, due to political reasons, docs have been told to only measure TSH and T4, which keeps massive populations as un-diagnosed while severely suffering from a thyroid dysfunction. 

I have not seen a doctor for thyroid yet due to my peculiar circumstances :), so I highly recommend that you see a good 'Endocrinologist'. 

Quote from: DEANNX on May 08, 2019, 10:25:27 AM

hi Swell, thanks for the info, I think I might have hyperthyroidism as I got almost complete opposite symptoms, ofc i will have to do a blood test to be sure, what supplements do you recommend i try for hyperthyroidism?????are you taking supplements only or also prescription drugs as well??

@Swell I did some google, it said that there risks involve in thyroid treatment, if you take hypothyroidism drug for a long time you might develop hyperthyroidism and vice versa. Have you talked to your doc about that and what did he say?


thanks

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: DEANNX on May 27, 2019, 03:26:54 AM

I actually tested my thyroid along with other sex hormones not long after reading your thread but it turns out my thyroid is normal. However I do have high level of estradiol, but my Testosterone is normal

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: swell on June 13, 2019, 01:54:48 PM

Could you share Deannx, what "specific" thyroid test you had?  Sorry, you are male (or female)?  High estradiol would point to a thyroid dysfunction.  I think most of us would have high estrogen.  If we can bring estrogen down, T3 hormone as well Testosterone would naturally go higher, but there are other factors involved too.

Its really great you have a fresh thyroid testing.  If you could share: a) what specific test you had, and b) incase you have the values. 

Quote from: DEANNX on May 27, 2019, 03:26:54 AM

I actually tested my thyroid along with other sex hormones not long after reading your thread but it turns out my thyroid is normal. However I do have high level of estradiol, but my Testosterone is normal

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: DEANNX on June 20, 2019, 01:49:49 AM

Quote from: swell on June 13, 2019, 01:54:48 PM

Could you share Deannx, what "specific" thyroid test you had?  Sorry, you are male (or female)?  High estradiol would point to a thyroid dysfunction.  I think most of us would have high estrogen.  If we can bring estrogen down, T3 hormone as well Testosterone would naturally go higher, but there are other factors involved too.

Its really great you have a fresh thyroid testing.  If you could share: a) what specific test you had, and b) incase you have the values. 

Quote from: DEANNX on May 27, 2019, 03:26:54 AM

I actually tested my thyroid along with other sex hormones not long after reading your thread but it turns out my thyroid is normal. However I do have high level of estradiol, but my Testosterone is normal

Hi, I am a male I tested FT3 FT4 and TSH, 5.16 pmol/L for FT3, 11.16 for FT4 and 3.280 μIU/mL for TSH

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: swell on June 28, 2019, 06:45:23 PM

Thank you Deannx, while I am no expert (so follow your doc), you do seem to have 'peripheral hypo-thyroidism'.  Are you able to get your: waking up body temperature?  And if you can, pulse rate and BP during a pois episode.  I currently dont understand immune dysfunction (thyroid antibodies TPO, TSI ...) how they influence FT4/FT3/RT3.  I think they come disguised as TSH etc so your thyroid panel can come out as normal while you still have auto-immune produced anti-bodies attacking your tissue (brain or skin) and you wouldn't know it until you get the thyroid anti-bodies panel run.  To start simple, if you are able to get your waking up body temp, that will be helpful.
 

Quote from: DEANNX on June 20, 2019, 01:49:49 AM

Hi, I am a male I tested FT3 FT4 and TSH, 5.16 pmol/L for FT3, 11.16 for FT4 and 3.280 μIU/mL for TSH

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: swell on July 11, 2019, 04:22:54 PM

All, I wanted to update this thread.  I believe I have cured or controlled my POIS, I call it a 'solution' to my POIS problems; to the extent that I am now able to ejaculate without the torture of POIS.   My journey has been tumultuous.  I am inherently cautious, so I dont want to blindly credit Thyroid as this solution.   Over last 10 years I aggressively tried to improve my health through supplements but nothing ever worked for me.  The last 3 months however have been a game changer.  Today, for some reasons, when I take anything, I noticeably feels its effect.  E.g. Vitamin C, this thing never ever worked for me.  I was so frustrated by vitamins, because they always produced the opposite effect :) Vitamin C instead of helping a sore throat used to make it worse, and so on.  Detox could be important, but the various detox supplements never did a dime for me.

I am not a medical professional so I'll use plain language.  I feel my body was plugged/clogged to the extreme maybe that is why nothing worked except the aggressive pharmaceuticals (which while curing the specific symptom, leave many other trails of destruction in your body).  When I ejaculated I used to smell chemicals coming out of skin pores and producing uticaria, hyperpigmentation, skin texture/roughness, coupled with brainfog, anger, speech lethargy, extreme irritability.   

My first tiny break-through occurred with Glutathione stack and Sam-E.  But it was not sufficient.  While I have always eaten reasonably healthy, however in last 3 months, I did a 360 degree switch.  I started eating lot of healthy "fats", raw/uncooked - Olive oil (cholesterol metabolism), Wheat germ oil (for growth factors), Bile acids with a sprinkle of Taurine (for fat metabolism, bile production), protolytic enzymes (for food digestion) including  Trypsin and Chymotrypsin.
I reduced proteins, I still eat them, and I drastically cut down carbohydrates.  At same time, I started using natural  dissected Thyroid (from bovine sources for T3, T4).  For first time in my life, I noticed a significant change happening to my body and mind.  I became scared later from Thyroid so reduced dosage, today I open a capsule and sprinkle a small amount in a class of water and take it, the effects have been holding since.  Its been few months.  I used to be swelled on face and ankles all the time.  Not only that disappeared but also with that POIS.

I feel much much calmer, relaxed, more social.  My skin has no longer those smelly oily chemicals come out after ejaculation and I no longer have the uticaria etc.  I am not 100% certain if Thyroid hormones OR Fats have been the solution, but I'll say they have been a catalyst.  Over last 3 months, I have had 100+ ejaculations with sperm (I did not ever experience POIS with orgasm so differentiating it), so I'm reasonably confident today but humbly cautious.

All in all, I think its Growth Factors and Testosterone insufficiency or imbalance that produces the "allergic response" to semen or sperm cells - inflammation / mast cell activation and what not at least in my POIS.  Healthy 'fats' are precursor to Testosterone.  Thyroid hormones are the governance mechanism over Testosterone as well Growth Factors.  I think when we ejaculate, our levels for Growth factors including Testosterone plummet, sending our body into a 7 day 'freeze mode' - the mast cells, uticaria, brain slowing to a halt, extreme irritation etc.

Just a quick thanks to the forum and all of you.  Dont give up.  I'll be less active but still check this forum from time to time, hopefully my solution will stay effective.  And hopefully someday a gene or something will get identified that will help all understand POIS better.

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: demografx on July 11, 2019, 08:28:37 PM

Thanks, swell, for elaborately detailing your journey to health. And a POIS-free existence. Rooting for you.

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: Hopeoneday on July 12, 2019, 09:58:03 AM

You had a tipical symptomes of hypothyroism, swelling and water retention...
I dont hawe that, but hawe these hypothyroid symptomes: extreme fatigue,


    Difficulty concentrating
    Short-term and long-term memory problems
    Forgetfulness
    Lack of focus
    Feeling "spaced out"
    Confusion
    Difficulty thinking clearly

Muscle weakness
Hypersensitivity to touch or temperature

Fast or irregular heartbeats
Feeling faintish
Shortness of breath


I think that you "cure" is mainly because of bovine thyroid hormones that you uses.

Aobout your diet, man , what do you eat now? :) I mean, you dont eat carbs, no proteins---... fats only?

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: demografx on July 12, 2019, 10:02:40 AM

Interesting. The plot thickens!

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: swell on July 13, 2019, 12:51:45 PM

Indeed, the plot thickens further Demo, life is too good currently :)

Quote from: demografx on July 12, 2019, 10:02:40 AM

Interesting. The plot thickens!

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: swell on July 13, 2019, 01:52:31 PM

Well, there is a difference between 'no proteins' (what you are interpreting) and 'reducing proteins' (what I said), proteins are essential but care must be taken,  I do think though you are close to the truth HOD.

Quote from: Hopeoneday on July 12, 2019, 09:58:03 AM

Aobout your diet, man , what do you eat now? :) I mean, you dont eat carbs, no proteins---... fats only?

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: Muon on July 13, 2019, 07:32:03 PM

I think you might have modulated your immune system by taking T3 and T4.

Check this out: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2768616/#S8title

''Notably, in both experimental models, there was a sharp though transient drop in circulating T3 and T4 24-48 hrs after antigen exposure; recovery in circulating thyroid hormone levels began 3-4 days post-antigen challenge''

Dynamics of POIS symptoms show similar numbers in time. In my case POIS symptoms are at their peak after 24 hrs and recovery starts exactly after 4 days. This is very striking.

Thyroid hormones as modulators of immune activities at the cellular level. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21745103)

''Thyroid hormones also affect natural killer cell activity and cell-mediated immune responses.'' (AKA type IV hypersensitivity)

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: swell on July 17, 2019, 02:20:08 AM

Update:  It has been crazy but I have been having 2-3 ejaculations daily for last 10 days, feeling in top shape.  In over exuberance, yesterday I engaged in many many many times over and over, I think 8, during the last one  I did not feel good (some initial telltale signs of POIS, perspiration on my eyelids, followed by eye irritation and some growth inside eye lids).  My POIS gets noticeably worse right closer to 24 hrs, so I was not sure at the time.  And right now I am certain, I am going through POIS and I do not feel good.  I think its not as strong as before, but it is a smaller hell still, burning neural sensation on face, brain fog, quick temper, urticaria not as strong as before, loose skin.

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: itsmel on August 07, 2019, 05:15:17 PM

@swell
I just had my thyroid tested.
I had everything tested but the closest thing that might be off is the TSH.
My TSH is 0.57, so this could be hyperthyroid.

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: famas40 on January 31, 2023, 03:54:17 PM

Hey @swell thank you for contribution.

I think I have a problem with the thyro?de, simply because by consuming 500mg of L-tyrosine compliment I felt a really spectacular relief from my POIS (the pois is gone at 70%) This acid amino that is tyrosine is necessary for the production of thyroid hormones that are thyroxine (T4).

I really want to do analyzes TSH, T3, T4, Reverse, etc. But I wonder if these analyzes I should do them before or after an O where my body is in a crisis of POIS  ?
@swell  Could you please make it more clearer about the treatment that worked for you.

Thanks,

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: Hopeoneday on January 31, 2023, 07:19:25 PM

Quote from: Hopeoneday on March 21, 2019, 03:38:30 PM

Intresting.
I did want to try lugols for guts infection
(to treat posible guts infection relate to help me for pois).
I did read a lot about alternative medicine wich use lugoil to treat
different types of infections. (bacterial, parasitic...)
I couldn,t find it eny more in farmacy,
because it is not use "eny more oraly".
But i see that it can be buyed in some bio shops.

By the way Swell, what did i learned about thyroid is that functional medicine treat that disorder the the best.
They start to check from hypothalamus to reverse T3 hormones, lack of nutrients etc.

For oficial medicine, if yours TSH is 4.2 in range 1-4 , you are fine for them.
But actualy, if TSH 4 , 4,2 etc you are all redy in "hypo zone".

Here expleined, an web page with a lot of usefull tips.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGsV2Ob0tqk

Hi Famas40, read around from up here what did he wrote,
and you will figure out whats did worked from him.

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: famas40 on February 14, 2023, 03:46:56 PM

Hello guys, Ijust got my T3, T4, and TSH results, I have 8,69 mUI/L what do you think about my case ! Any help would be appreciated!

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: Hopeoneday on February 14, 2023, 07:05:08 PM

Well, acording yours results (tsh), "you are hypothyroid",
you must go to thyro doctor to check that.

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: poisantagonist on April 22, 2023, 10:12:32 PM

updated.

My symptoms seem to have disappeared (at least i don't feel them) after trying a thyroid complex and taurine!
My POIS (first 2/3 days) didn't hinder me in either of my two ejaculations.
In average symptoms was starting after 1 day.
I dunno what helped me but I can say that something from this list (im sure 100%):

1. Thyroid complex.
2. Taurine.
3. Tea with lemon and ginger.
4. ?Neck exercises?.
5. ?Legs exercises?.
6. ?l-arginine and l-citruline complex?

p.s i use (1, 3) for everyday. Also i do a home workout every day. Taurine i take only after a ejaculation (2 tablets  (1000mg each)) also repeat a thyroid complex (1 tablet).

p.s.s also i take ~50mg of chelated zinc everyday and omega 3 (2 tablets), i experimented with high zinc and omega 3 dosage and i can say that this doesn't helps much, just for ~10%.

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: Progecitor on April 23, 2023, 01:52:54 AM

Quote from: poisantagonist on April 22, 2023, 10:12:32 PM

My symptoms seem to have disappeared (at least i don't feel them) after trying a thyroid complex and taurine!
My POIS didn't hinder me in either of my two ejaculations.

I dunno what helped me but I can say that something from this list (im sure 100%):

1. Thyroid complex.
2. Taurine.
3. Tea with lemon and ginger.
4. ?Neck exercises?.
5. ?Legs exercises?.
6. ?l-arginine and l-citruline complex?

p.s i use (1, 3) for everyday. Also i do a home workout every day. Taurine i take only after a ejaculation (2 tablets  (1000mg each)) also repeat a thyroid complex (1 tablet).

p.s.s also i take ~50mg of chelated zinc everyday and omega 3 (2 tablets), i experimented with high zinc and omega 3 dosage and i can say that this doesn't helps much, just for ~10%.

just to notice: first 1-2 days when i used a thyroid complex, sometimes my feces were green as if i pour a glass of green dye on them. > 2 weeks passed from that moment and i didn't have this strange situation anymore.

Maybe this information helps somebody.

Could you copy the ingredient list from the thyroid complex as it appears to me that no two products are the same. At least iodine, zinc, selenium, L-tyrosine and a variety of vitamin B seem to be frequent additions. However some may even contain Ashwagandha, Chitosan, Guggul, Forskolin, Garcinia Cambogia, Schisandra and a number of other herbs and minerals. By the way a tea blend to support thyroid function contains black cumin seed, nettle, ginger and licorice. They may even act in a synergistic way when combined.

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: poisantagonist on April 23, 2023, 04:44:27 PM

Here it is.

Thyroid complex components Vitamin B-12 (as cyanocobalamin)   100 mcg    lodine (from kelp/potassium iodide)     150 mcg Magnesium (as magnesium oxide)      200 mg Zinc (as zinc oxide)                           8 mg Selenium (as amino acid chelate)       200 mcg Copper (as cupric oxide)                    0.2 mg Manganese (as amino acid chelate)     2 mg Molybdenum (as amino acid chelate)  50 mcg L-Tyrosine                                        300 mg Schisandra Fruit Powder                    240 mg Ashwagandha Root Powder                200 mg Bladderwrack Thallus Powder             50 mg Cayenne Pepper Fruit Powder             30 mg Kelp                                                 38 mg

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: Progecitor on April 26, 2023, 02:14:42 AM

Quote from: poisantagonist on April 23, 2023, 04:44:27 PM

Here it is.

Thyroid complex components Vitamin B-12 (as cyanocobalamin)   100 mcg    lodine (from kelp/potassium iodide)     150 mcg Magnesium (as magnesium oxide)      200 mg Zinc (as zinc oxide)                           8 mg Selenium (as amino acid chelate)       200 mcg Copper (as cupric oxide)                    0.2 mg Manganese (as amino acid chelate)     2 mg Molybdenum (as amino acid chelate)  50 mcg L-Tyrosine                                        300 mg Schisandra Fruit Powder                    240 mg Ashwagandha Root Powder                200 mg Bladderwrack Thallus Powder             50 mg Cayenne Pepper Fruit Powder             30 mg Kelp                                                 38 mg

I am glad it works so well for you! I have found more or less relief with some of these as well. I don’t think I have thyroid issues though and lab findings also don’t support this. A set of supplements may compliment several theories and it is difficult to tell which is the right one, but of course the important thing is that they actually improve our condition at least.

Title: Re: Thyroid Function and POIS
Post by: poisantagonist on April 26, 2023, 02:56:09 PM

After a 3rd ejaculation i started to feel symptoms again.
Not so hard as before, but... It's 3rd day i don't ejaculate, and sometimes i've got a tough POIS symptoms, especially brain fog.
Also i noticed that my eyelids is twitching, it's because i did 3 ejaculations in a row (1 day 1 ej. so 3 days in a row). Also on abstinence, it's very very rare my eyelids is twitching. So i can say that problem didn't solved. I wrote my previous answer because it's first time i had no symptoms after 2 days. But after 3rd ej. as i said before i started to feel them.

Symptoms came but with more lag.. I noticed that 1 year ago. Because 2 years ago i started to feel the symptoms after 10-15 min.
Now (in average) i start to feel them on the next day. Last time, i started to feel them on 3rd day.

p.s i've updated my previous answer.