| Parameter | Time | Value in pg/ml | Reference range in pg/ml |
| IL-10 (T-reg) | ~10 min before orgasm (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nc2dt6pcwd5xpmu/AACyyDE6uhY1DHn1fAuxw86Ja?dl=0&preview=Muon+2-1+Th1Th2+part2-1%2BIL-8%2BIgGsub%2BIgE+13-08-2015.pdf) | 774 | 760-1900 |
| IL-10 (T-reg) | ~15 min after orgasm (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nc2dt6pcwd5xpmu/AACyyDE6uhY1DHn1fAuxw86Ja?dl=0&preview=Muon+2-2+Th1Th2+part2-2%2BIL-8+13-08-2015.pdf) | 638 | 760-1900 |
| IL-10 (T-reg) | ~45 min after orgasm (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nc2dt6pcwd5xpmu/AACyyDE6uhY1DHn1fAuxw86Ja?dl=0&preview=Muon+2-3+Th1Th2+part2-3%2BIL-8+13-08-2015.pdf) | 542 | 760-1900 |
| IL-10 (T-reg) | ~24 hour after orgasm (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nc2dt6pcwd5xpmu/AACyyDE6uhY1DHn1fAuxw86Ja?dl=0&preview=Muon+3-6+Th1Th2+part2-4%2BIL4gen+14-08-2015.pdf) | 1045 | 760-1900 |
better delete that quote Nas I'm updating the thread. About your questions, no I don't know yet what they mean. Yes they are mine.God you're so OCD. Fine.
''The lack of a local genital skin reaction after ejaculation, but the occurrence of multiple complaints after ejaculation, and the findings of the hyposensitization treatment suggest that in POIS immunologic reactions occur due to repeated close contact during ejaculation between seminal peptides and circulating T-lymphcytes. This leads to a systemic reaction with multiple physical and cognitive complaints.'' (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5001999/#__sec9title)
(https://cdn2.iconfinder.com/data/icons/facebook-ui-colored/48/JD-18-512.png)better delete that quote Nas I'm updating the thread. About your questions, no I don't know yet what they mean. Yes they are mine.God you're so OCD. Fine.
better delete that quote Nas I'm updating the thread. About your questions, no I don't know yet what they mean. Yes they are mine.What I find interesting in your results, is that IL-10 drops after ejaculation/orgasm; so you're not only low on IL-10 in general. Then you also regain IL-10 in time. You should look at hormones released in orgasm where the timing of their replenishment correlates with IL-10 replenishment time.
''The lack of a local genital skin reaction after ejaculation, but the occurrence of multiple complaints after ejaculation, and the findings of the hyposensitization treatment suggest that in POIS immunologic reactions occur due to repeated close contact during ejaculation between seminal peptides and circulating T-lymphcytes. This leads to a systemic reaction with multiple physical and cognitive complaints.'' (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5001999/#__sec9title)
I'm also very curious about this, doesn't this pretty much explain POIS? I don't I understand it though, how does it exactly lead to systematic reaction?
What you can do is finding the time point which is related to the minimum of IL-10. If you pinpoint that you will have an idea when to test for other parameters close to that point and see if they correlate. I have placed some new ideas below the picture. Treg function could be impaired or Treg populations are temporarily down (no idea what their half life or replenishment rate is btw). Catecholamines could inhibit IL-10 production in Tregs, is this normal behaviour? Androgen receptors could be blocked or there could be a decrease of androgens.better delete that quote Nas I'm updating the thread. About your questions, no I don't know yet what they mean. Yes they are mine.What I find interesting in your results, is that IL-10 drops after ejaculation/orgasm; so you're not only low on IL-10 in general. Then you also regain IL-10 in time. You should look at hormones released in orgasm where the timing of their replenishment correlates with IL-10 replenishment time.
Well if you take Habibou's tests into consideration, he has low levels of catecholamines, which either means that them binding to Treg is actually beneficial, or that they are not involved in the whole Treg thing.What you can do is finding the time point which is related to the minimum of IL-10. If you pinpoint that you will have an idea when to test for other parameters close to that point and see if they correlate. I have placed some new ideas below the picture. Treg function could be impaired or Treg populations are temporarily down (no idea what their half life or replenishment rate is btw). Catecholamines could inhibit IL-10 production in Tregs, is this normal behaviour? Androgen receptors could be blocked or there could be a decrease of androgens.better delete that quote Nas I'm updating the thread. About your questions, no I don't know yet what they mean. Yes they are mine.What I find interesting in your results, is that IL-10 drops after ejaculation/orgasm; so you're not only low on IL-10 in general. Then you also regain IL-10 in time. You should look at hormones released in orgasm where the timing of their replenishment correlates with IL-10 replenishment time.
How do you distinguish between cytokines from Tregs and cytokines from macrophages.
My second question is: Do you know how cytokine levels change in normal non-POISers when they orgasm?
Semen contains polyamines (spermine and spermadine), prostaglandins and cytokines. I could be wrong, but my understanding is that these signaling molecules are produced by the males immune system to tell the woman's immune system not to attack his sperm. So our immune system is regulating her immune system (using immune signaling molecules) so that our sperm have a chance to fertilize her eggs. Prostaglandins also help her uterus contract to draw the semen into her Fallopian tubes. Maybe there is a difference between male POISers and male non-POISers in which signaling molecules are produced during sex/orgasm. Getting a female POISer to do time-point cytokine test like you have, may help to eliminate the sperm production variable.
Also, is there any place for innate immune deficiency in your hypothesis? I seem to remember you had low NK cell count (CD16+CD56+CD57+) which is a rare immunodeficiency (Natural killer cell deficiency (JS Orange, 2013) (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3917661/)).
POIS could be a signaling defect. Maybe it's something as simple as blocking or rerouting a signal to fix the issue. Perhaps you should start a new thread about this subject, there could be something wrong with this mechanism in poisers. Spermine and spermadine are present in food as well, that could explain food sensitivities, it could be part of the same signaling problem.I'd be very interested to hear this one.
A few years ago I tested this. I let my pre ejac 10 hours on my hands. My hands became very red with dots. I think I posted a pic here or on the previous forum.
Third, when I received subcutanous injections it burned like hell. I asked my doc the question why it doesn't give me that reaction when you drop it on skin. He told me it's probably a big molecule, like a protein, that is not able to penetrate the skin due to its size.
A few years ago I tested this. I let my pre ejac 10 hours on my hands. My hands became very red with dots. I think I posted a pic here or on the previous forum.
Third, when I received subcutanous injections it burned like hell. I asked my doc the question why it doesn't give me that reaction when you drop it on skin. He told me it's probably a big molecule, like a protein, that is not able to penetrate the skin due to its size.
Hey Muon, when you were injected by your own semen, did you get POIS? I mean did you get the usual symptoms like brain fog, etc.?
"the orgasm induced a moderate but statistically significant transient elevation of the cytotoxic/suppressor T cell (CD3+CD8+) numbers (Fig. 2). In contrast, the absolute numbers of T cells (CD3+), T helper cells (CD3+CD4+), and B cells (CD3-CD20+) were not affected by sexual stimulation...the levels of LPS-induced proinflammatory cytokines (IL-6, TNF-alpha) remained unaffected by masturbation-induced orgasm...The effects of orgasm on peripheral lymphocyte subsets were restricted to NK cells and had minor or no effects on T or B cell subsets and showed no effects on (IL-6, TNF-alpha) cytokine production, indicating limited and selective effects of orgasm on immune system functions in parallel with its selective and short-lived neuroendocrine effects." -Effects of Sexual Arousal on Lymphocyte Subset Circulation and Cytokine Production in Man (P Haake, U Hartmann, et al., 2004) (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Uwe_Hartmann/publication/8395744_Effects_of_Sexual_Arousal_on_Lymphocyte_Subset_Circulation_and_Cytokine_Production_in_Man/links/00b7d52f8e1b80712a000000.pdf)
I'm actually quite disturbed what the reason is behind my mother's intravaginal reaction upon contact with sperm. It sounds like immune tolerance in the female reproductive tract is failing. What mechanism is playing/failing here and does this have a genetic cause which has been transferred to me and my brother? Does this create POIS in males?3 people in 1 family with POIS-like symptoms: that is interesting. I wonder if any other members have family with POIS. In my family not. But I do have 2 brothers with Crohn’s disease.