POISCENTER
General Category => General POIS Discussions => Topic started by: POISrival on September 02, 2015, 12:40:10 PM
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Hello everyone, I hope you are doing good.
I have been thinking a lot about the fact POIS might have a pyschological component. I know this thought has been discussed a lot in this forum. I just have a few questions, I would be glad if you could answer them. I have a hunch we all have something common in our history that would lead to more understanding of POIS.
1- Were you ever taught by your parents that Sex is somehow against some religious teaching or it is not accepted by God?
2- Were you told that Sex is against social norms or rules? Did you ever think that having sex is shameful?
3- Were you always blamed by someone in your circle for small thing? Were you always under pressure?
4- Do you have a problem with guilt?
5- How was your first orgasm experience after Masturbation and Sex?
6- Were you told before your first orgasm experience that Sex is an activity the drains your energy?
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Yes, yes, yes!!
But - - after 30++ years horrendous POIS experience -- I'm STILL convinced there's a biological -- not psychological -- underpinning to POIS.
Best,
Demo
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Hello everyone, I hope you are doing good.
I have been thinking a lot about the fact POIS might have a pyschological component. I know this thought has been discussed a lot in this forum. I just have a few questions, I would be glad if you could answer them. I have a hunch we all have something common in our history that would lead to more understanding of POIS.
1- Were you ever taught by your parents that Sex is somehow against some religious teaching or it is not accepted by God?
2- Were you told that Sex is against social norms or rules? Did you ever think that having sex is shameful?
3- Were you always blamed by someone in your circle for small thing? Were you always under pressure?
4- Do you have a problem with guilt?
5- How was your first orgasm experience after Masturbation and Sex?
6- Were you told before your first orgasm experience that Sex is an activity the drains your energy?
Agree with demografx 100%!
1) No way. I am a lifelong atheist, and was never taught that. Sex isn't bad...it's actually very healthy, thinking otherwise is, to put it bluntly, wrong and irrational.
2) Absolutely not. Again, sex is not much different than breathing or eating. It's a healthy behavior that almost everyone does. It creates bonding, relieves stress & many other good things.
3) No.
4) No.
5) It was great! No POIS the first time, hoping to get that back.
6) No.
Again, like demo, I'm 100% sure that the cause of POIS is not psychological for the majority, if not all, of us sufferers.
I would also add that I had a superb childhood, no problems at all. Good parents, extravagant upbringing, great education.
In other words, I don't have any obvious outside influences or any kind of exceptional trauma that some have mentioned as a possible factor.
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Prancer mentions "exceptional trauma".
I spent too many years chasing that theory (psychiatry, etc.) as a cause for my POIS.
Finally, in my senior years, my wisdom shouted at me that "...it's physical, demo!"
:)
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Hi POISrival and everyone,
I suppose that, even if POIS if possible even when you had a great childhood like Prancer had, that POIS indeed has a biological cause. But, it would be appropriate to suppose as well that any bad influence due to a less than optimal education and childhood can add to the problem.
I didn't have good parents, even if they did all that they could, and they were very negatively oriented toward sexuality, and in general. This may have helped in the fact that I had POIS from the very start, the first time I tried masturbation. The psychological burden I have received from my chilhood and education just made it more complicated to understand and manage POIS. Anxiety and psychological distress are not helping in any way for POIS.
I have an hypothesis, though, to try to discriminate between biological effects and psychological effects. Would it be possible that the difference in severity from a waking state release vs a NE would indicate some psychological component, when waking state release is more severe? I would be interested to ear from other members to see if that would fit with reality. In my own case, my symptoms are worse after a waking state release. I suppose that if my symptoms are less severe after a NE, it is because my waking state mind and its inhibiting beliefs and programming are not online, so there is less interference. What do you think, and what is your own experience?
However, if someone like Prancer, who had a great childhood and didn't have a "primary POIS" ( right form the start), is having less symptoms after a NE than a waking state release, my hypothesis would be proven wrong.
If you agree to, please share if POIS is identical in severity or less severe after a NE, and if you had a good childhood and a positive sexual education or not.
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My symptoms were worse after an NE.
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Hello guys,
I havn't post here since a while but the thread is interesting.
My inch is a lot of us experienced somehow a kind of trauma linked to sexuality and that possibly immune system react to this internal contradiction.
I found out that my dad was gay when i was 18 and all my problems began since that. I guess that any bad teenage experience,family beliefs, PE,any physical complex, etc can be considered as a trauma.
I've seen a psychologist for a year and he thinks that i experience a form of PTSD.
Considering that the placebo effect is strongly implied in the mechanism of POIS(see the numerous testimony of people cured by very different method ) the only logical conclusion is that the nocebo effect is also implied(which doesn't mean that biological mechanism are not involved).
So enlarging the concept of trauma linked to sexuality(not just the one mentioned by post rival) who can say that he is not concerned at all ?
I know that it's not easy to admit( it like renouncing to a part of the commitment we dedicated to pois research) but hiding to ourself and to the other this part will just lead to a loss of time.
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This is just my personal experience, not universal.
I was strongly convinced for years before the forums started that psychology (PTSD, etc.) or "spirituality" (my sex-is-evil upbringing) created POIS, so I spent huge amounts of time chasing the psychiatrist's couch as well as spiritual-religious solutions.
Zero results.
Fast forward to 5 years ago when I tried testosterone. It was a "miracle", a most potent near-cure and still is.
This overwhelming switch after 30+ years of POIS hell/misery -- then a sudden normalization with 'chemicals' convinced me that it's purely biological (for me). However, the early trauma may have *triggered* the physical failure of my condition. But after that trigger was pulled, and as I matured, I *think* that the severe physical malfunctioning still continued. Just my opinion. Which is why I am thrilled that Rutgers is taking a *scientific* approach, not a thinking/hypothesizing one, which we all have done since 2007, when the forums began.
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I'm 100% with you demo ; something physical has been triggered ; doesn't mean that the psychological part have to be ignored ; Modern medecin tend to stricly separate the body and the mind which is a complete non sense.
The big question is why testosterone works on you, advil, taurine, niacin, some metal rebalancing, trazodone, ashwagandha, mytelase, SIBO treatment, canabis, neem leaf, wife pregnancy, desens therapy, vasectomy, changing girlfriend, some weird energy therapy of a israelian chaman, etc, etc have been reported to work for other people.
There is only one logical answer that have to be taking into consideration which is by the way a pretty good news and which has a important place beside the research.
Im' still very interested in hearing what other people here can say about experiences of sex related trauma or a special conception of what sex is(of course before POIS episodes...as POIS has made for all of us sex a special experience)
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Still don't believe in any bad upbringing factor, way too much credence is given to that. Even assuming one's parents DID misteach their children about sex or whatever, I don't see how that can result in these kinds of symptoms. There is such a thing as "thinking for oneself". Also, no one had to have a *great* childhood, just a normal childhood, without many unusual traumatic experiences. I was just reinforcing the point, in my earlier post, about a bad upbringing having little to no relevance to POIS by the fact that I had the complete polar opposite of a bad upbringing, and STILL developed POIS. I doubt too many of us had any overly traumatic experiences, but if you did, tell us, you don't have to be specific. Also, if you had a normal or above childhood, then please chime in too.
And one or two negative childhood experiences doesn't count (like death of a non-immediate family member, injury, scratching a game, losing a pokemon card, etc.), because nearly everyone had something like that and they do not get POIS.
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Oh no! I thought it was because of losing a Pokémon card!!
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Oh no! I thought it was because of losing a Pokémon card!!
I lost one when I was 9, and freaked! BUT, I'm happy to say...that experience did NOT cause my POIS symptoms later on. :P
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Are you sure ????????
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My symptoms were worse after an NE.
Hi Demo,
Interesting, to say the least..... it's the first time I hear on this forum about someone with symptoms worse after NE than waking state E. I heard about the opposite, or also about equal severity for both.
POIS has for sure many clinical presentations.
Do you think those worst symptoms could have been caused by a longer contact time with semen, like a contact allergy?
In my case, I have no local, topical reaction at the contact of my semen, and the contact time does not seem to matter or correlate with severity of a particular episode.
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Oh no! I thought it was because of losing a Pokémon card!!
I lost one when I was 9, and freaked! BUT, I'm happy to say...that experience did NOT cause my POIS symptoms later on. :P
I never had any ¨Pokemon card ( I am too old ! ) Maybe the fact that I never had a Pokemon card has caused, through a time loop experience, my POIS ???????
Also, my son had Pokemon cards, and have lost one, a shiny one, with silver on it... when that happened, I already had POIS for 26 years.... Do you think it could be the cause of my POIS, through a wormhole in spacetime ?
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Hi POISrival and everyone,
I suppose that, even if POIS if possible even when you had a great childhood like Prancer had, that POIS indeed has a biological cause. But, it would be appropriate to suppose as well that any bad influence due to a less than optimal education and childhood can add to the problem.
I didn't have good parents, even if they did all that they could, and they were very negatively oriented toward sexuality, and in general. This may have helped in the fact that I had POIS from the very start, the first time I tried masturbation. The psychological burden I have received from my chilhood and education just made it more complicated to understand and manage POIS. Anxiety and psychological distress are not helping in any way for POIS.
I have an hypothesis, though, to try to discriminate between biological effects and psychological effects. Would it be possible that the difference in severity from a waking state release vs a NE would indicate some psychological component, when waking state release is more severe? I would be interested to ear from other members to see if that would fit with reality. In my own case, my symptoms are worse after a waking state release. I suppose that if my symptoms are less severe after a NE, it is because my waking state mind and its inhibiting beliefs and programming are not online, so there is less interference. What do you think, and what is your own experience?
However, if someone like Prancer, who had a great childhood and didn't have a "primary POIS" ( right form the start), is having less symptoms after a NE than a waking state release, my hypothesis would be proven wrong.
If you agree to, please share if POIS is identical in severity or less severe after a NE, and if you had a good childhood and a positive sexual education or not.
Bjr quantum, lapoisse,
hi guys
I m pretty sure i have the pois because of pretty bad childhood, too much masturbation
and perhaps a link with my tonsil surgery
i remember always angry, crying, fighting
i began to think about suicide at perhaps 10, 12 years old
i had pretty bad childhood
and i m sure that's why i have the pois
but also i masturbed often
the last neurologist i saw, told me the two speciality Neurology and psychiatry
are very close
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While I consider the psychological component totally bunk and ludicrous I have a question as a layman:
Given the Rutger's hypothesis of Vagus Nerve disruption I'm confused as to whether this is a nervous-system based issue or something that's akin to an immune imbalance with one's own seminal fluid?
You see - when I ejaculate, the proportion of the fluid expelled is relative to the severity of the symptoms.
There was also a user by the name of animus who had his prostate reduced, seminal vessels removed and he's enjoying 100% POIS-free life, as an anecdotal example.
Could this then imply that there's something in the fluid that my body is negatively reacting to? Or would the Vagus nerve have any semblance of this?
Can someone please answer me on this?
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Bonjour outsider, quantum ( je viens juste de voir que vous ?tiez francophone ; ) )
Hello Pentrazemine,
I totally excluded for years any psychological component in POIS, nobody feels well with that and its pretty classic and convenient to find a purely external cause to a psychological related issue.
The problem with POIS is there is no pattern,no reproducibility ; some get better with something and other with basically the opposite, ; I've been reading this forum for 4 years now and read probably 90% of the post since then and nothing make sense ; there is nothing in common between the Animus story, the demography story, the dexter case,the kurtosis cure and the dozen of other miracle cure that we've been witness here. Research "cure" on the forum, it's baffling
My conclusion is (1) sex trigger symptoms (2)we experience a myriad of physical and mental symptoms that's are all real ; as much real than an ulcer is for exemple(3)the heterogeneity of the reported cure only lead to the conclusion that placebo effect is heavily involved (4) there is not a single symptom here that can't be explained by nervous system exhaustion, generalized anxiety, PTSD, etc(5)There is no debates today on the fact that when the mind goes wrong, it can totally mess up the body through neurotransmitters, hormone, etc.(6) if placebo is involved it means that nocebo is also possibly involved to and that the problem is reversible.
We know today that the state of mind is involved in the pronostic of cancer, possibly the causes ; it doesn't make it a fake disease ; it's totally stupid to oppose mind and body.
Look at this, its amazing :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWQfe__fNbs
For me the Rutgers study is very interesting as stimulating the VN might help to lower the symptoms even if I don't believe its the cause.
I've been working on that lead for a year now seeing a psychologist and practicing meditation and even if still experienced symptoms post orgasm, there duration and severity have been dramatically reduced and it's permanent . I'm able to basically kill pois symptoms just by meditating.It's a long shot that required commitment(basically my cure consist in (1)understand the source of the internal tensions and stop it and (2) teach the nervous system to react normally to orgasm and rebalance it. I believe it worth it and my logic tells me that it's better to eat tons of supplement or wait for magic cure. All that could also be wrong, to be 100% honest, I would prefer POIS to be recognized as having a biological cause and resolvable instantly and I still somehow expect that.
I'm remember how bad I felt when i read the Animus post ; 80% of my mind try to find argument to reject its theory totally but 20% knew it make sense.
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=226.0
I'm totally open to discuss about that...we can also make pokemon jokes if you prefer ; )
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While I consider the psychological component totally bunk and ludicrous I have a question as a layman:
Given the Rutger's hypothesis of Vagus Nerve disruption I'm confused as to whether this is a nervous-system based issue or something that's akin to an immune imbalance with one's own seminal fluid?
You see - when I ejaculate, the proportion of the fluid expelled is relative to the severity of the symptoms.
There was also a user by the name of animus who had his prostate reduced, seminal vessels removed and he's enjoying 100% POIS-free life, as an anecdotal example.
Could this then imply that there's something in the fluid that my body is negatively reacting to? Or would the Vagus nerve have any semblance of this?
Can someone please answer me on this?
Hi Pentrazemine ( et bonjour Lapoisse ! ) ,
There is no clear and complete explanation of POIS yet. There are, like Lapoisse have said, many diferent theories, and no supplements or solutions seems to work for every POIS sufferer - what works for one or a few may not work at all for others.
So, for now, you may have to make up your own mind, and read about what others here think. There also will be the Rutgers study that will provide useful information. You can also send a private message to Demografx in order to receive the few scientific articles that has already been written on POIS, in particular the two by Dr Waldinger.
Lapoisse have already outlined his own view to you. If you want to read about my own take on the physiopathology of POIS, see my post at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2078.msg16431#msg16431 . In fact, the whole thread where this post comes from may be of interest to you, as it is called "Allergy or Neurological", which is quite in line with your above question.
I do not think that the POIS puzzle will be entirely solved in a near future. In the meantime, you can try some of the things that have helped other membersget some relief, like meditation, yoga, natural products, vitamins, and so on. Be sure to go slowly and safely in your experiments.
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While I consider the psychological component totally bunk and ludicrous I have a question as a layman:
Given the Rutger's hypothesis of Vagus Nerve disruption I'm confused as to whether this is a nervous-system based issue or something that's akin to an immune imbalance with one's own seminal fluid?
You see - when I ejaculate, the proportion of the fluid expelled is relative to the severity of the symptoms.
There was also a user by the name of animus who had his prostate reduced, seminal vessels removed and he's enjoying 100% POIS-free life, as an anecdotal example.
Could this then imply that there's something in the fluid that my body is negatively reacting to? Or would the Vagus nerve have any semblance of this?
Can someone please answer me on this?
Hi Pentrazemine ( et bonjour Lapoisse ! ) ,
There is no clear and complete explanation of POIS yet. There are, like Lapoisse have said, many diferent theories, and no supplements or solutions seems to work for every POIS sufferer - what works for one or a few may not work at all for others.
So, for now, you may have to make up your own mind, and read about what others here think. There also will be the Rutgers study that will provide useful information. You can also send a private message to Demografx in order to receive the few scientific articles that has already been written on POIS, in particular the two by Dr Waldinger.
Lapoisse have already outlined his own view to you. If you want to read about my own take on the physiopathology of POIS, see my post at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2078.msg16431#msg16431 . In fact, the whole thread where this post comes from may be of interest to you, as it is called "Allergy or Neurological", which is quite in line with your above question.
I do not think that the POIS puzzle will be entirely solved in a near future. In the meantime, you can try some of the things that have helped other membersget some relief, like meditation, yoga, natural products, vitamins, and so on. Be sure to go slowly and safely in your experiments.
I've asked this before but do you think POIS will be fully cured by the 2030's or 2040's? I don't want to live the rest of my life like this...it's like a paraplegic unable to have sex cause of his spinal injury...it's making my life miserable.
Will there ever be a cure 10-20 years down the line? I know POIS was first recognized since only 2002 but it's already 2015 and my doctors still don't know what it is.
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While I greatly respect Lapoisse's thinking, unfortunately for those that like "keepin' it simple", the mind actually has nothing to do with cancer. According to some of the leading cancer experts, "There is no evidence, however, that a person prevents or causes cancer based on his or her state of mind.". I've known several people (all aged 50+) that tried to cure themselves without treatment, and they are all no longer alive.
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/kimmel_cancer_center/news_events/featured/cancer_update_email_it_is_a_hoax.html
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While I greatly respect Lapoisse's thinking, unfortunately for those that like "keepin' it simple", the mind actually has nothing to do with cancer. According to some of the leading cancer experts, "There is no evidence, however, that a person prevents or causes cancer based on his or her state of mind.". I've known several people (all aged 50+) that tried to cure themselves without treatment, and they are all no longer alive.
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/kimmel_cancer_center/news_events/featured/cancer_update_email_it_is_a_hoax.html
Exactly what they told my mother at Sloan-Kettering. She passed, but thankfully without the aid of any whacky cures. I spoke to her oncologist - not about mental cures, but in general about "alternative cancer cures". The doctor sighed and mentioned one example, a so-called carrot (eating) cure -- she only saw patients turn yellow/orange -- then died!
ps - Prancer, what's the best way to PM you, email? PM? Please let me know by PM. Thank you!
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no one can respond to my question about whether this will be cured by the 2030's or 2040's?
i've seriously given up virtually all hope. i'm 43 years old, still a virgin, and i'm unable to enjoy the simple luxuries in life.
cure's never going to come...cures for most forms of cancer will be held before our syndrome is fixed. the problem is that we're too rare and small in the medical field.
i'm almost on the verge of giving up.
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For the last year I have been deeply exploring the possibility of POIS having to do with our individual programming. I have not found any conclusive evidence pointing one way or another. However I can report what I have learned thus far.
Programs are acquirable throughout lifetime, but most are written at a very young age, before the age of four. The programs written at this age have to do with what we believe to be real, and the events at which we formed these beliefs are something that we can remember. Examples of beliefs in real are “fire is hot”, “mom and dad are safe”, “mom should do what I want”, “walls are hard”, “I'm invisible”, “people are objects”. John C. Lilly said, “In the province of the mind, what one believes to be true is true or becomes true, within certain limits to be found experientially and experimentally. These limits are further beliefs to be transcended. In the mind, there are no limits.”
Here's the thing, we have the ability to change our beliefs and thus our programming. There are built-in programs to be sure, and some programs may be unmodifiable if they were written in a hurry in a situation in which one perceives them self to be in a life threatening situation. But for the most part, we have the ability to modify our programming, assuming the motivation to do so is present. Since most of our beliefs in real are formed before the age of four, and assuming that none of us knew what sex was at that point in time, if POIS was due to our programming, it doesn't have anything to do with sex.
Here is where things get interesting. I remember when I was three years old my mom took a picture of me in the bathtub and when we got the photo back from being developed you could see my private parts. I wanted my mom to get rid of the picture, but she refused and wanted to show my grandma. That was the first time I experienced anger. Our beliefs in real act on and only on our emotions, our emotions act on and only on our feelings, and our feelings act on and only on our thoughts/logic. It was at this moment that I wrote the program which defined what parameters or events that would “make me mad”.
The result of this was me always insisting that things be my way, and being offended and self-righteous when people do things that I don't like. Also it resulted in me insisting that I am or trying to be more important than other people, hiding from people, being arrogant, and trying to control what other people think of me. I do not think that any of this has to do with POIS, but I will continue to keep an open mind as I learn more about the mind and programming.
In my case, I think that POIS may be due to semen leaking out of the prostate or urethra and into the surrounding tissue. I think this because when I first started masturbating, I would put enough pressure on my urethra to stop the flow when ejaculating so that I wouldn't have to clean up. This may have caused a rupture in my urethra/prostate as the semen needed to find somewhere to go. If my semen is spilling over into the surrounding tissue when I ejaculate, then having an allergic response after ejaculating wouldn't be a far fetched idea because the semen would be going to a place that it's not supposed to be.
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no one can respond to my question about whether this will be cured by the 2030's or 2040's?
i've seriously given up virtually all hope. i'm 43 years old, still a virgin, and i'm unable to enjoy the simple luxuries in life.
cure's never going to come...cures for most forms of cancer will be held before our syndrome is fixed. the problem is that we're too rare and small in the medical field.
i'm almost on the verge of giving up.
And we're on the verge of a solution!! I waited 30++ agonizing years but didn't give up -- and I finally found one that worked for me!! I, too, never thought I would see the day!
But I did.
Put on your fighting cap! (That's what I did -- including heavy involvement in the forum -- and it helped enormously).
We're all with you, Pentr!
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I'm totally open to discuss about that...we can also make pokemon jokes if you prefer ; )
(http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab143/demografx/CA0C0E8A-D886-4416-BD94-BBC1359E01CF.gif)
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The first key in medical diagonsis is looking through history. I am convinced that (or my feeling is that) POIS is not a psychological illness but nothing should be ruled out since we don't know the exact cause of POIS.
When I went throught the naked scientits forum about POIS and read some of the posts, I found out that not only at least one person have TYPICAL pois symptoms similar as mine, but also some people might have a similar Pre-pois history similar to mine. And there is a possibility too that we have similar types of personalities.
So yeah, History might be the key.
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POISrival, I really like your profile! :)
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The first key in medical diagonsis is looking through history. I am convinced that (or my feeling is that) POIS is not a psychological illness but nothing should be ruled out since we don't know the exact cause of POIS.
When I went throught the naked scientits forum about POIS and read some of the posts, I found out that not only at least one person have TYPICAL pois symptoms similar as mine, but also some people might have a similar Pre-pois history similar to mine. And there is a possibility too that we have similar types of personalities.
So yeah, History might be the key.
I can't speak to your experience, but, as others have mentioned, personal history is definitely NOT the cause of my POIS. Like many POIS sufferers, I at first assumed my reaction to orgasm was some deeply-rooted, subconscious guilt complex or something. I've explored this idea extensively in therapy with a number of different therapists. I have cultivated an incredibly healthy view of sex and sexuality and in no way experience feelings of guilt or shame. I am 110% convinced that true POIS is a physical / physiological response. The symptoms take hold like clockwork and seem to be shared by POIS sufferers across the board with some minor variation.
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I agree, Hoping!
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I'm not coming back to this forum until a formal, medically approved cure or treatment becomes available. Happy tails and I do hope we'll get to see something within 5 years time.
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I'm not coming back to this forum until a formal, medically approved cure or treatment becomes available. Happy tails and I do hope we'll get to see something within 5 years time.
Pentrazemine,
Poiscenter is a very serious support forum for men with POIS. The forum members have a great sense of humor, but above all else, this is THE place where men struggling with POIS can gather information.
"Support" is the most important word to describe poiscenter.
So -- good bye and good luck, and "happy tails" to you, also.
Stef
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As an example support to Stef's statement: I joined POIS forums in 2007 in full-blown POIS.
As a result I was getting some "POIS relief" by joining and having others listen to me. NO ONE (including close family members, doctors, friends) understood what I was babbling on about prior to joining.
If this is not of interest to you then I believe you're on the right path by leaving.
We're all about mutual empathetic understanding of our plight. Human understanding, often on a 1:1 level.
I've enjoyed your posting.
Best wishes, pentr, for whichever way you decide to proceed. We will miss you if you decide to leave.
demo
ps - by participating in and getting more involved with POISCenter, THIS is where I also found MEDICAL TREATMENT RELIEF FOR MY HORRENDOUS POIS SYMPTOMS. Less than 2 years after joining and PARTICIPATION. Remember, you also have a lot to offer newbies and to share with older members as well.
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So should I expect a cure or medically-approved treatment within 5-10 years time? I'm already 43 and I'm not getting any younger as time goes by.
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Hi Pentrazemine,
I think we can all understand your desire for many answers and that you will have many questions about the outcome of research and potential for a cure.
Personally, I'd be ecstatic if a cure is on the way from this research building into further research. I would personally be dissapointed if there isn't some decent medically approved solutions within five years, but who knows. The idea of this research being completed could mean access to more funding and more specific research.
None of us knows, and in my experience, the best to hope for on the forum, by studying various shared posts, is to continue to find things that may work to reduce your own symptoms during your acute pois phase and with your specific cluster of symptoms.
Some things have helped many of us, but only by spending time to understand what could work best for us.
All the best.
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Hi Pentrazemine,
I'm only 1 year younger than you and fully understand your frustration. I know how deep this illness can affect some of our lives and how hopeless things can feel, but no matter what we need to keep on going. We all want what we see others have and wish we were better informed on how to cope with this illness when at a younger age so that we could have been better off today. But you need to focus on today and what is still possible. The past is the past and even if you feel like you will not be able to achieve what you originally wanted too then at least the future very well could be much better than the past was. POIS is like an evil beast that wants to haunt you but don't let it get to you.
I currently have no job,messed up work history, no sex, no wife/girlfriend, no kids, I live in a tiny studio, I even prevent myself eating certain foods but still up for a fight against POIS.
As far as I know.....there are currently 2 POIS research projects underway:
(Nederlands) Research done by Prof Marcel Waldinger
(ESSM) European Society for sexual medicine
http://www.essm.org/grants-and-fellowships/research-grants/previously-funded-projects/
______________________________________________________________
(USA-Rutgers University, Newark)Research done by Dr. Komisaruk and Dr. Nan Wise
Research if POIS is case of vagus nerve dystonia
Method:
Phase 1: Heart rate variability monitor (indirect indicator of state/tone of vagus nerve)
Phase 2: Vagus nerve stimulator (VNS)
..............
Last phase: fMRI will be used
If I'm not mistaken, soon we can probably expect to get some feedback (basic report) from NORD on or after 25th of October....this was mentioned in earlier post. I'm sure one of the moderators can probably confirm my post to you.
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...If I'm not mistaken, soon we can probably expect to get some feedback (basic report) from NORD on or after 25th of October....this was mentioned in earlier post. I'm sure one of the moderators can probably confirm my post to you.
That's correct, less_fogged. An interim progress report from Dr. K. is due around the end of October (this month!). NORD will send demo and Daveman a paragraph (or a few paragraphs) that Dr. K will write specifically for posting here.
Stef
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Hi Pentrazemine,
I'm only 1 year younger than you and fully understand your frustration. I know how deep this illness can affect some of our lives and how hopeless things can feel, but no matter what we need to keep on going. We all want what we see others have and wish we were better informed on how to cope with this illness when at a younger age so that we could have been better off today. But you need to focus on today and what is still possible. The past is the past and even if you feel like you will not be able to achieve what you originally wanted too then at least the future very well could be much better than the past was. POIS is like an evil beast that wants to haunt you but don't let it get to you.
I currently have no job,messed up work history, no sex, no wife/girlfriend, no kids, I live in a tiny studio, I even prevent myself eating certain foods but still up for a fight against POIS.
As far as I know.....there are currently 2 POIS research projects underway:
(Nederlands) Research done by Prof Marcel Waldinger
(ESSM) European Society for sexual medicine
http://www.essm.org/grants-and-fellowships/research-grants/previously-funded-projects/
______________________________________________________________
(USA-Rutgers University, Newark)Research done by Dr. Komisaruk and Dr. Nan Wise
Research if POIS is case of vagus nerve dystonia
Method:
Phase 1: Heart rate variability monitor (indirect indicator of state/tone of vagus nerve)
Phase 2: Vagus nerve stimulator (VNS)
..............
Last phase: fMRI will be used
If I'm not mistaken, soon we can probably expect to get some feedback (basic report) from NORD on or after 25th of October....this was mentioned in earlier post. I'm sure one of the moderators can probably confirm my post to you.
Less_fogged,
I wanted to mention how inspiring your entire post is!
Stef
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No shame in that decision, Pentrazemine! It's totally understandable, especially when we've seen so much nonsense 'n quackery by both spammers and seriously deluded people over the years. But a real cure is coming, and real scientific research is happening to help us understand exactly what is causing our symptoms, and what needs to be done to remedy the situation. Some of us, like Pentrazemine, might feel more comfortable waiting it out until there is a formal cure, while others feel better exchanging ideas and information with their fellow POISers. It's all different personal preferences, no problem with any of them!
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Also, to add something else, for those of us that try to avoid having an orgasm as much as possible (like myself), I have found that having sex (without orgasm) helps to alleviate a lot of the sexual frustration I feel. When we go without an orgasm we might feel frustrated, bad, whatever (I know I do). Being intimate with your girlfriend/boyfriend might help you get that feeling of sexual satisfaction after an orgasm without actually having one. It's not perfect, but it works for me at least. Plus, even if you have an orgasm, the symptoms (in my case) are not as severe. The goal is simply to remain satisfied as much as possible without causing those terrible post-orgasm symptoms. Once there is a cure, it won't matter anymore. But for now, yay sex!!
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Also, to add something else, for those of us that try to avoid having an orgasm as much as possible (like myself), I have found that having sex (without orgasm) helps to alleviate a lot of the sexual frustration I feel. When we go without an orgasm we might feel frustrated, bad, whatever (I know I do). Being intimate with your girlfriend/boyfriend might help you get that feeling of sexual satisfaction after an orgasm without actually having one. It's not perfect, but it works for me at least. Plus, even if you have an orgasm, the symptoms (in my case) are not as severe. The goal is simply to remain satisfied as much as possible without causing those terrible post-orgasm symptoms. Once there is a cure, it won't matter anymore. But for now, yay sex!!
Hi Prancer,
In the last 6 to 7 years, I have used that strategy quite often, and got used to live with the remaining tension, and have developed ways to let it out in sport or otherwise ( I wish I had thought to try this many years ago, but I think I was afraid of holding in too much tension. I must admit it took a certain time to get the hang of it, and to become good at letting the steam out in different ways, ). This no-E strategy is possible because I have no POIS symptoms from arousal, neither from sex, unless I ejaculate, so if I have sex but do not have a release, I have no POIS symptoms at all.
When I have first discussed this "strategy" with my wife, and then tried it a few time, she may have felt a few time that "something was missing". Then again, we talked about it, and she couldn't stand anymore my 3 days of drastic and horrible personality changes because of a 5 seconds event, so she agreed with this "strategy", and is now completely happy and comfortable with this compromise. Then, we can have sex regularly without me becoming for a time an anxious and exhausted madman.
I was so happy not to have to be ill for 3 days that having no release was not a frustration at all. For me, 5 seconds will never be a good reason enough to stand days of physical and emotional misery. I do not want even one more single day of that misery, because with time, this madman I was becoming could have lost his wife because of his recurrent madness. The choice was clear for me, and I never had any regrets. And like you have mentioned, Prancer, having sex, even with no release, has been very satisfying, and in fact, much more than before, because of not having any POIS after.
During the last years, I have still gone for a release once a month on average, as there comes a time that my ways of letting go of the sexual tension were not enough anymore. Even If I still choose or need a release once a month, it is now easier - I can prevent and control my symptoms way better, and do not have to lose 3 days a month anymore to POIS madness because I had to let some tension out, so i'm still more comfortable and stable now. Actually, after 37 years of POIS, I never had so few symptoms as I had this year, so few "lost days", especially in the last 6 months, when my pre-pack got to its current, stable composition.
And, It is thanks to this forum, that I have found a little less that a year ago, that I have found a new motivation and new ideas to try against my POIS. It's much harder alone. So thanks to everyone here ! :)
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Hi Prancer & Quantum,
Thanks for sharing your strategies that work for you, and keep health on an even keel.
Will try to build that discipline into the future.
This MAY be an easier strategy to adopt for slightly older guys, of which I fit into that category also.
NE's unfortunately don't allow this level of self control sadly.
Colm
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All my life, I've had a very healthy appreciation for sex. No trauma, no guilt, no fear NOTHING but good.
One the one hand, I didn't get POIS until I was 45 or so. But I had recently gotten married to a wonderful woman, who I'm still happily married to, and our sex life has been great.... despite the POIS of course.
And of course there's the Niacin treatment that has all but eliminated my POIS (as long as I take it just right).
Niacin isn't a tranquilizer, as a matter of fact it can sometimes be stressing (big flush) So I just can't see psychological affect.
Who knows, I might be one in a million. But ZERO effect psychological.
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Hi Prancer & Quantum,
Thanks for sharing your strategies that work for you, and keep health on an even keel.
Will try to build that discipline into the future.
This MAY be an easier strategy to adopt for slightly older guys, of which I fit into that category also.
NE's unfortunately don't allow this level of self control sadly.
Colm
Hi Colm,
I guess you are right about the no-release strategy being easier when we get older. I think i have begun to experiment with it when i was 43 or 44 ( i am 50, currently ). I feel it is easier not only because sex drive is a little more quiet or has become less central in the daily interests, but also because, with time, the value of the intimacy and the presence of the significant other become more important, in sex, than physical sensations. That may be not the case for everyone as they get slightly older, but it is my experience, though.
Perspectives, values, expectations and priorities change with time. I think it is wise to make these changes in the light of our own, specific situation.
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Don't give up guys. If you're really struggling I know something has to work for you. Like how I found my diet to relieve POIS. There has to be something just don't give up.
And for the original question ... Absolutely zero psych component. I had a great childhood and it just absolutely angers me when I hear that. It's like asking someone with cancer if there is a psych component. Anybody can tell when I'm in a POIS state, my eyes get red, insomnia, terrible moods, its so easily identifiable and its 100% real.
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I dont know why everyone seems to say " no its not in my head " in their answers when what i said in the original post wasnt " its all in your head "
I never said the symptoms are fake, the symptoms are real. When you get anxious, you sweat and your heart races right? Anxiety is a psychological thing and sweating is so real.
One more thing, one of the SCIENTIFIC papers that demografx sent me mentioned a case treated by psychotherapy.
Some people here on the forums experience different reactions to different types of ejaculation (NE, masturbation, sex) I never got POIS after a NE. Same semen, different reaction??
I wasnt trying to use my own original post as a basis to any theory, because i dont have one. The best i can do with my POIS is experimemting medications and get back to you guys if i found something helpful.
The original post was simply some curious questions. But i got so many irrelevant answers implying I live in tails or Im being delusional. Im neither, I live in agony that we all know what it feels, and anything that can be 0.00001% helpful to POIS is worth investigating and exploring.
Good luck everyone with our fight against POIS.
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Good luck everyone with our fight against POIS.
(http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab143/demografx/7EB6F8A1-F387-479A-8CB0-AF01B4EDDFB6.jpg)
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I'm very happy to see this thread. I spent too many wasted years pursuing the POIS "psychological component."
Upside is that there will be far fewer cases like mine in the future -- chasing their own tails -- as we have become more scientific and since we created a forum to look at POIS as a mutual support network.
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(Nederlands) Research done by Prof Marcel Waldinger
(ESSM) European Society for sexual medicine
http://www.essm.org/grants-and-fellowships/research-grants/previously-funded-projects/
______________________________________________________________
Thank you from Rutgers!
(I passed your link above to Dr Wise and Dr K).
They were not yet aware of this study.
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I find it a pity that we never hear news or get some feedback on the progress from the research going on in the netherlands. I guess it's the norm with strict competition/confidentiality etc...till they at least come to some conclusion.
At least we've had some news from the rutgers research and hoping for that update from NORD.
But then again will probably soon be bombarded with loads of progress updates...
Lately I've had quiet a bit of irritation at thyroid area. My doc accepted that I get a "thyroid scintigraphy" as also an "ultrasound (echo) on thyroid". After every O I'm always irritated with thyroid but with my last O this irritation/pain just seems to keep on persisting endlessly. Will see....perhaps something else is also going on now!!!
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(Nederlands) Research done by Prof Marcel Waldinger
(ESSM) European Society for sexual medicine
http://www.essm.org/grants-and-fellowships/research-grants/previously-funded-projects/
______________________________________________________________
Thank you from Rutgers!
(I passed your link above to Dr Wise and Dr K).
They were not yet aware of this study.
Great to see there is another POIS research going on ! Two at the same time.... it may start a trend... :)
It would be interesting if some biological markers could be identified in POIS sufferers by Dr Waldinger... It could be the beginning of diagnosis criteria based on medical findings.
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Hi Dionis,
Welcome
To POISCenter.com !
Please visit our Welcome
Page:
http://tinyurl.com/lwwns6z
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This is my first ever post here, so excuse me for choosing this particular thread to post in. I have basically all of the symptoms of POIS. I also took Propecia for 11 years, which has basically led me to have a very sub par and sad life when I was a happy go lucky guy growing up. Anyway, ive constantly suffered brain fog, anxiety, fatigue, hot flushes, depression, low libido, blurry vision etc etc. Ive read heaps on Propeciahelp, ive also known about POIS for quite some time, Ive done no fap and experienced definite benefits with social relations and more energy/motivation. Normally after no fap I find I can fap maybe 2-3 times without any symptoms, then it hits me. If I masturbate more than 3x in 3 days every one thereafter will make me feel like crap.
However ive also lately started truly tackling my anxiety in the right way, and its actually surprising how when my anxiety and worry goes away and I sleep better, how much better I feel. I have started to realise that there is a huge psychological component to a lot more than I thought. One of the posters here had some good logic. Often on here and Propecia help there seems to be a huge variety of ways people have recovered. It makes it an absolute crap shoot to figure any solution out. Some are helped my Test, some by estrogen blockers, some by dopamine agonists, some by exercises.. ad infinitum. There however is one common thread between everyone, and that is they are worried about their symptoms. I totally agree that I am not psychologically averse to sex. I don't think sex is dirty or anything. However I'm primed to be watching for symptoms the second I fap, and i'll tell you one thing, watching for symptoms is the worst thing you can do. You will create what you watch for, and feed into it. When doing NoFap I do wonder how much of my success is because i'm proud of myself and Ive let my worries go.. It is plausible to me that those who truly believe they have "figured it out" and "found the cure" simply stop worrying and watching themselves so much and poof - cured.
All this being said, I like most people have for YEARS operated on the premise that there is a biological explanation for these problems. I certainly think it likely is a component too. Many people who took propecia believe their gene expression has been altered. Much of this crap does seem to be related to testosterone, dopamine and prolactin, but that's not news to anyone.
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This is my first ever post here, so excuse me for choosing this particular thread to post in. I have basically all of the symptoms of POIS. I also took Propecia for 11 years, which has basically led me to have a very sub par and sad life when I was a happy go lucky guy growing up. Anyway, ive constantly suffered brain fog, anxiety, fatigue, hot flushes, depression, low libido, blurry vision etc etc. Ive read heaps on Propeciahelp, ive also known about POIS for quite some time, Ive done no fap and experienced definite benefits with social relations and more energy/motivation. Normally after no fap I find I can fap maybe 2-3 times without any symptoms, then it hits me. If I masturbate more than 3x in 3 days every one thereafter will make me feel like crap.
However ive also lately started truly tackling my anxiety in the right way, and its actually surprising how when my anxiety and worry goes away and I sleep better, how much better I feel. I have started to realise that there is a huge psychological component to a lot more than I thought. One of the posters here had some good logic. Often on here and Propecia help there seems to be a huge variety of ways people have recovered. It makes it an absolute crap shoot to figure any solution out. Some are helped my Test, some by estrogen blockers, some by dopamine agonists, some by exercises.. ad infinitum. There however is one common thread between everyone, and that is they are worried about their symptoms. I totally agree that I am not psychologically averse to sex. I don't think sex is dirty or anything. However I'm primed to be watching for symptoms the second I fap, and i'll tell you one thing, watching for symptoms is the worst thing you can do. You will create what you watch for, and feed into it. When doing NoFap I do wonder how much of my success is because i'm proud of myself and Ive let my worries go.. It is plausible to me that those who truly believe they have "figured it out" and "found the cure" simply stop worrying and watching themselves so much and poof - cured.
All this being said, I like most people have for YEARS operated on the premise that there is a biological explanation for these problems. I certainly think it likely is a component too. Many people who took propecia believe their gene expression has been altered. Much of this crap does seem to be related to testosterone, dopamine and prolactin, but that's not news to anyone.
Welcome to this forum, Meatburger.
I also believe that managing our anxiety level is an effective part of what is needed in controlling POIS. In my case, it is obvious, since anxiety is one of the emotional symptoms I get from POIS. If my baseline anxiety level is lower, POIS will not push me as high. If my baseline anxiety is already high, POIS will cause me to go in the "overwhelmed" level of anxiety. Not anymore though :)
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Welcome, meatburger, to POISCenter.com!