POISCENTER
POIS Cause/Treatment Discussions => General Alternative Causes and Treatments of POIS => Topic started by: Twp06242014 on January 12, 2015, 11:55:31 PM
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There is talk onthe Ejaculatory Anhedonia forum about the Psoas Muscle which is inthe lower back and pelvis area and has a wide ramge of affects on the body, impacting the vagus nerve, body relaxation, ejaculation, stress, digestion, etc.
The muscle can become too tight and wound up after trauma or stressful experiences. Through proper exercises the muscle can be "released" which can have a profound impact on wellbeing.
One member on the other forum mentioned that after managing to "release" his Psoas muscle, he now feels like his brain is "turned on" and he can feel his pineal gland and vagus nerve and his ability to orgasm is coming back and lots of other positive improvements in his wellbeing.
I think this might have some benefit to us. I am going to read up on this Psoas muscle in the coming days and hopefully will report back my findings and personal experience trying to release it.
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There is talk onthe Ejaculatory Anhedonia forum about the Psoas Muscle which is inthe lower back and pelvis area and has a wide ramge of affects on the body, impacting the vagus nerve, body relaxation, ejaculation, stress, digestion, etc.
The muscle can become too tight and wound up after trauma or stressful experiences. Through proper exercises the muscle can be "released" which can have a profound impact on wellbeing.
One member on the other forum mentioned that after managing to "release" his Psoas muscle, he now feels like his brain is "turned on" and he can feel his pineal gland and vagus nerve and his ability to orgasm is coming back and lots of other positive improvements in his wellbeing.
I think this might have some benefit to us. I am going to read up on this Psoas muscle in the coming days and hopefully will report back my findings and personal experience trying to release it.
Interesting, Twp. I also have EA, and I have always thought that there is a link between my EA and my POIS. I have started working with a tennis ball and a softball, a few days ago, probably after having read the same thread you have on the EA forum. I have found supplements that help prevent my POIS symptoms, but they do nothing so far for EA. I started this fascia release work mostly to help with EA, but it could help also to lower POIS intensity.
I will sure be interested to hear about your personal experience of releasing the psoas and pelvic muscles.
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Interesting, Twp. I also have EA, and I have always thought that there is a link between my EA and my POIS. I have started working with a tennis ball and a softball, a few days ago, probably after having read the same thread you have on the EA forum. I have found supplements that help prevent my POIS symptoms, but they do nothing so far for EA. I started this fascia release work mostly to help with EA, but it could help also to lower POIS intensity.
I will sure be interested to hear about your personal experience of releasing the psoas and pelvic muscles.
Yes it is interesting, i believe more and more that all of this stuff is delicately interconnected. depression, anxiety, digestive disorder, brain fog, fatigue, EA, acne, flu-like illness symptoms, poor sleep, appetite problems..... the list goes on. Its interesting because some years ago when my problems began to unfold over time, i did not connect them together but as time goes by i see more relationships between everything. When the body is in balance, mentally physically socially emotionally etc, it becomes a virtuous circle and when things are not in balance it becomes a vicious cycle tough to break out of. From what i am learning, the PSOAS muscle is at the core of our being, and it needs to be in a relaxed state most of the time.
Please keep me updated on your progress and i will keep you updated on mine.
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Very interesting. I recently became a personal trainer, and the psoas mucle has been a fascinating one to learn more about. I have a significant anterior pelvic tilt (lumbar lordosis), and one of my main symptoms after ejaculation is tight, painful muscles. I have been doing a lot of abdominal strengthening and overall body stretching, but I recently got some bad news about my back. I have degenerative disc b/t L5 and S1, and my doc says that there isn't anything to do except strengthen and stretch. I know I need to strengthen my abs (they are weak, but strangely by lower back is very muscular. Kurtosis also mentioned something like this), but what should I be stretching that I'm not?
I think targeting the psoas is a missing piece, and what reading I've done I think it would help correct my hip and possibly reduce the forces that led to this degenerative disk. I found a nice video on how to stretch it!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEbvVwuBnzg
I also believe myofascial release is excellent, I need to learn how to access the psoas and use something like my Theracane.
Thanks for bringing this up!
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Very interesting. I recently became a personal trainer, and the psoas mucle has been a fascinating one to learn more about. I have a significant anterior pelvic tilt (lumbar lordosis), and one of my main symptoms after ejaculation is tight, painful muscles. I have been doing a lot of abdominal strengthening and overall body stretching, but I recently got some bad news about my back. I have degenerative disc b/t L5 and S1, and my doc says that there isn't anything to do except strengthen and stretch. I know I need to strengthen my abs (they are weak, but strangely by lower back is very muscular. Kurtosis also mentioned something like this), but what should I be stretching that I'm not?
I think targeting the psoas is a missing piece, and what reading I've done I think it would help correct my hip and possibly reduce the forces that led to this degenerative disk. I found a nice video on how to stretch it!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEbvVwuBnzg
I also believe myofascial release is excellent, I need to learn how to access the psoas and use something like my Theracane.
Thanks for bringing this up!
I have what is described as lower cross syndrome. It is characterized by weak abdominals, tight hip flexors, weak gluteus maximum, and tight thoracolumbar extensors. I have been doing the stretches and exercises on this site, hopefully you can find the information useful.
https://coastchiropractichove.wordpress.com/2012/04/04/lower-cross-syndrome/
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I have what is described as lower cross syndrome. It is characterized by weak abdominals, tight hip flexors, weak gluteus maximum, and tight thoracolumbar extensors. I have been doing the stretches and exercises on this site, hopefully you can find the information useful.
https://coastchiropractichove.wordpress.com/2012/04/04/lower-cross-syndrome/
Many thanks, G-man, very useful information for me.
I already knew about my tight psoas, and have noted for a long time that the muscles of my inner thights were tensed after an O. This page gives a much more detailed and overall view of the muscles to either stretch or strengthen. I will work along these guideline for my muscle stretching and muscles exercise.
Did you get any results, G-man, from using those exercises?
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From what i am learning, the PSOAS muscle is at the core of our being, and it needs to be in a relaxed state most of the time.
Please keep me updated on your progress and i will keep you updated on mine.
Sure, Twp.
A short update for now. I have been working on my psoas for a few days, mainly by doing rolling work with a softball on my inner thighs, from knee to groin, and then up on the sides of the abdomen, in line with the psoas position. I am also doing stretching I have learned from yoga pose as well, but what can be found on the page G-man linked to is pretty equivalent. I have noticed, even before reading about the "Lower cross syndrome", that my shoulders were a bit more straight.
I had to take a break on rolling and stretching, my psoas stretching caused what I figure out to be the release of stuck "emotions" or frustration, maybe those tensions that have led to tense them in the first place. ( decades of stress in there, after 36 years of POIS ! ). I was getting a bit edgy, so I will go slowly. My POIS made me have mood swings and irritability for years, so my wife is very sensitive about any emotional tension from my part. I will then go sowly, maybe every other day or every other 3 days, at least for the start. Didn't do any stretching today, and I am calmer than yesterday. Protecting my relationship and family life is very important to me, and comes before anything else.
Let me know if you experience similar emotional effects or not.
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Quantum -- Wow that is amazing thank you for the update. I also read that it can lead to releasing deep emotions somehow. I only tried laying down in the constructive rest pose for about 5 or 10 minutes but I did not really feel anything at all. Maybe my psoas is just way too tight. I want to get a small ball like they show in some exercise videos. Do you know where I can find the right ball to use ? I don't really have anything to use currently, not even a yoga mat, just a bed blanket and pillows :(. But I am ready to buy some stuff to use,just not sure what to get
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Quantum -- Wow that is amazing thank you for the update. I also read that it can lead to releasing deep emotions somehow. I only tried laying down in the constructive rest pose for about 5 or 10 minutes but I did not really feel anything at all. Maybe my psoas is just way too tight. I want to get a small ball like they show in some exercise videos. Do you know where I can find the right ball to use ? I don't really have anything to use currently, not even a yoga mat, just a bed blanket and pillows :(. But I am ready to buy some stuff to use,just not sure what to get
Hi Trp,
Well, interesting that you have read somewhere about deep emotions releasing related to psoas stretching, it looks like that is what I had. I knew from previous experiences, like massotherapy, that working at releasing deep, chronic muscles tension, like in the back and abdomen, could un-block some buried emotions (my massotherapist has warned me about that). Releasing the muscle tension allow to feel the emotions that has been avoided and repressed. If all goes as I foresee, less emotions will surface next time, it is more intense in the beginning.
I am using my yoga mat, but if you don't have one, a bedside rug can do the trick. A bed is too soft - any ball you will use will not press enough into the muscles. Same thing for stretching. If you do the stretching lying on a bed, far less stretching happens. It may be good only for a very slow start.
I did not buy a foam roller yet, but i intend to. All I have been using so far is what I had around. I use a tennis ball, and, for more intense work, a softball (in case you are not familiar with this, a softball is a larger version of a baseball. It is a rather hard ball. If you are in North America, you sure know what a baseball and a softball are ! ). I use my own weight to apply pressure, so I am face down, and sometime slightly sideway, to work my inner thighs, using the weight of my leg. If you have no mat, you could always do it directly on the floor. A mat is just more comfortable to work on. I worked my back as well, face up. I worked the lower back, but between the shoulder blades as well - it hurts so good ;)
I have found that the yoga I have been practicing for some years had already help me a bit, but it was less specific, general begginer yoga, and wasn't aiming particularly at the psoas or lower cross syndrome. Now I have a more "personalized" routine I can build for that specific problem.
On the NS forum, Nathan123 has recently suggest a specific yoga asana that helps him relieve and prevent his POIS symptom (thanks, Nathan). This yoga pose helping him is Ardha Matsyendrasana. I guess this asana helps with stretching the psoas ans other muscles that are overtightened in what is called lower cross syndrome. I have found this page to learn how to do this pose: http://www.yogajournal.com/pose/half-lord-of-the-fishes-pose/ . I took a break with this one too, because of the emotional releasing that happened, and will reintroduce it slowly in my yoga routine.
This morning, I have re-started slowly with some exercices suggested on the page G-man gave the link for. I did some stretching, and tried the "wall angel" exercise. I am still very calm :) I did not re-used the softball yet, but will tomorrow.
Hope that will help you getting started!
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Many thanks, G-man, very useful information for me.
I already knew about my tight psoas, and have noted for a long time that the muscles of my inner thights were tensed after an O. This page gives a much more detailed and overall view of the muscles to either stretch or strengthen. I will work along these guideline for my muscle stretching and muscles exercise.
Did you get any results, G-man, from using those exercises?
I have not been doing the exercises regularly, or long, enough to notice a big difference. However, after I do them walking feels so much more natural and fluid, maybe even foreign or strange. I also am very sore so I know it was productive. Now after reading about the possible link with POIS here, I will do the exercises every other day and report back in a month or so.
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I am curious, has anyone else here broken their tailbone at some point? Or maybe fallen on it really hard? I remember falling hard on my tailbone twice during the time I was in puberty. I did not find out until years later that my tailbone has been broken at least once. So it is possible to break it and to not be aware.
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G-man,
I haven't been on this forum for a while and its such a coincidence that I was thinking yesterday that I may have damaged my tailbone because I remember falling really hard on it a couple of times when I was younger than eleven. The question I have is: how can I can I get my tailbone x-rayed??? Does anyone fix broken talk bones? I hope so.
I also found this trail interesting because I have a severely damaged PSOAS muscle on my left side. I'm sure POIS caused it. When I was 18 I had an excruciating spasm in my left hip after it being tense there for a few years.
Apparently, amongst many things progesterone relaxes the hip muscles. Perhaps thats why is works for me. Because I take progesterone my PSOAS muscle is slowly but surely experiencing greater movement but even still after two years of taking progesterone (as and when required) I got a long way to go until it is even as strong as my right side.
FloppyB
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I had a similar injury...
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Considering how similar the symptoms of POIS and food sensitivities are...
https://straightspine.wordpress.com/2011/11/14/sacrumthe-emotional-bone/
"A subluxated sacrum can do much more than just cause discomfort or sciatic type pain. Reproductive problems, bladder dysfunction, and digestive difficulties may all occur when the sacral bone is not aligned properly (what chiropractors call a subluxation). But the most problematic side effect of a sacral subluxation may be the emotional component. I have seen several patients with chronic sacral subluxations who were being medically treated for depression.
Clinically, I have seen this correlation happen so many times now that it has caused me to incorporate the question “Do you have difficulties with depression?” in my initial examination. Recently a patient reminded me that many old-time chiropractors and osteopaths used to refer to the sacrum as “The Emotional Bone.” Without going into too much depth here, let me try and give you a brief glimpse into the neurology of “why” the sacrum may influence our emotional well-being.
The autonomic portion of the nervous system regulates organ and gland function. This is broken down into two parts: the sympathetic and the parasympathetic. The sympathetic nervous system is in charge of revving things up (fight or flight). The parasympathetic is in control of “resting” activities such as digestion, urination, salivation, and sexual arousal (things that we can take our time with and provide relief). Where do these parasympathetic nerves come from? The upper (cranial) and lower (sacral) part of the spinal cord. This is why it is called craniosacral outflow and it might also be why a subluxated sacrum can put an individual in a sour mood. A subluxated sacrum may interfere with proper parasympathetic outflow, causing a dis-ease within the system.
I am not saying the all depressed people have a sacral subluxation or that anyone with a sacral subluxation will become depressed. But I can say that I have seen people’s moods completely change when I adjusted their subluxated sacrum. I have seen it enough times that I believe it warrants more attention from the medical community and more research from the chiropractic community."
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Found an article about how to release the psoas for those who are interested. Below is a brief introduction
http://www.tenderfoodie.com/blog/2013/1/1/exercise-the-immune-system-2-releasing-the-psoas-spine.html
"The psoas is a major muscle that is in charge of several complex actions like lifting your legs and even moving your intestines. Thus, it is called the Fight or Flight muscle. The psoas major attaches at the bottom of the thoracic spine (T12) and along the lumbar spine (through L4), then threads through the pelvic bowl, runs over the front of the hip joint, and attaches at the top of the femur (thigh bone). It is the only muscle that connects the spine to the leg, but it is much ignored because we can’t really see it. The psoas is also intimately connected to our adrenal glands, which makes this a very important muscle to release in today’s stress -filled culture."
"What does the psoas have to do with food allergies? Most of our immune system (75%) is in our gut, and a healthy psoas is meant to massage our organs and intestines as we breathe and walk. During the fight or flight response (read more about "modern day bears" here), our intestines are told to shut down and all of our energy is diverted to the legs. This amazing design lets us run away from lions and tigers and bears, ah ha. If our body thinks it is in constant danger, and the psoas is chronically tight, chronic constipation and anxiety can ensue.
Conversely, if your intestines are inflamed because of food sensitivities, celiac disease, auto-immune issues, Irrittable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) or allergic reactions, this may also influence the psoas to tighten. Releasing the psoas can bring great relief."
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Last night I used a foam roller to release the psoas with the cobra pose described in the last post. It took a considerably long time (35 minutes), and about 30 minutes in an unusual thing happened. When I applied pressure to a specific area of the pelvis with the foam roller, it caused me to have a spontaneous erection and ejaculate all in about 10-15 seconds. Maybe POIS has some connection with nerves and/or muscles?
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Last night I used a foam roller to release the psoas with the cobra pose described in the last post. It took a considerably long time (35 minutes), and about 30 minutes in an unusual thing happened. When I applied pressure to a specific area of the pelvis with the foam roller, it caused me to have a spontaneous erection and ejaculate all in about 10-15 seconds. Maybe POIS has some connection with nerves and/or muscles?
That is bizarre! Never heard of any ejaculation happening that quickly
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Interesting. Some Poisers reported they have improvements with muscle relaxant meds.
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Sitting here right now really thankful that this was discovered. I just used my Theracane to really hit deep in between the illiac crests (hip/waist area), and I'm feeling quite relaxed. And the best part? My chronic back pain responds to psoas release! I've done everything else, physical therapy, massage, chrioprator (damn chiropracters seemed to make things worse in my case), but really working those psoas must loosen them up so that they aren't pulling on my lumbar spine. It's amazing, because the area you are working seems totally unrelated. It's when I get up from the ground where I am doing my release when I feel immediate loosening and absence of pain. Just plain cool! I hope that this will allow me to get back into mountain biking!
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That is bizarre! Never heard of any ejaculation happening that quickly
There are many articles on the web about the link between premature ejaculation and the psoas muscle. However, during my brief search, none of the articles appeared to have any scientific backing.
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I think I might know what the cause of P.O.I.S. is, at least in my own case. If lower cross syndrome is severe enough, the muscle imbalance may cause semen to become trapped instead of being expelled during ejaculation.
The past two weeks I have been doing the eagle legs side twist stretch outlined on the page below and have noticed a SIGNIFICANT reduction in the duration and intensity of my symptoms. My legs go numb every time I do the stretch so that may be a sign that something is seriously wrong with my lower back. I also notice muscles around the prostate area start to loosen up and move when doing the stretch. I encourage everyone to try it.
https://www.doyouyoga.com/5-poses-to-stretch-your-quadratus-lumborum-34024/
G-Man
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I think I might know what the cause of P.O.I.S. is, at least in my own case. If lower cross syndrome is severe enough, the muscle imbalance may cause semen to become trapped instead of being expelled during ejaculation.
The past two weeks I have been doing the eagle legs side twist stretch outlined on the page below and have noticed a SIGNIFICANT reduction in the duration and intensity of my symptoms. My legs go numb every time I do the stretch so that may be a sign that something is seriously wrong with my lower back. I also notice muscles around the prostate area start to loosen up and move when doing the stretch. I encourage everyone to try it.
https://www.doyouyoga.com/5-poses-to-stretch-your-quadratus-lumborum-34024/
G-Man
Interresting G-man,
If I stretch my legs I feel better after O. The problem is that if I stretch I will also have NE. If I don't stretch I always wake up before NE. Therefore I avoid stretching.
POISse
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Interresting G-man,
If I stretch my legs I feel better after O. The problem is that if I stretch I will also have NE. If I don't stretch I always wake up before NE. Therefore I avoid stretching.
POISse
I try to do most of my stretching the first five days after O. After that, the probability of having a N.E. increases.
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Very interesting stuff. I frequently have pain and irritations in and around my tailbone. After reading some of the things posted here and watching some videos about the psoas I think I should definitely get this checked out.
Related to the psoas muscle I also found some videos about tension and trauma releasing excercises (TRE) which is fascinating. I tried it a few times now, same result every time: Its a nice experience (the involuntary shaking during this practice feels almost orgasm-like) and afterwards I'm super relaxed and the way I walk seems more natural than it usually does. Anyone else tried this?
Thanks for opening this thread.
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Related to the psoas muscle I also found some videos about tension and trauma releasing excercises (TRE) which is fascinating. I tried it a few times now, same result every time: Its a nice experience (the involuntary shaking during this practice feels almost orgasm-like) and afterwards I'm super relaxed and the way I walk seems more natural than it usually does. Anyone else tried this?
Are you able to provide instructions on how to do this?
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Hi G-Man,
See at https://www.4shared.com/file/lir1J5Jc/David%20Berceli%20-%20Trauma%20Releasing%20Exercises.avi.html
I have bookmarked this some time ago, but never really used it, maybe once or twice, but this instruction video is well done.
Let us know your experience, if you choose to give it a try.
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Holy schmokes, this is excellent.
I posted in another discussion about my experience at a 10-day meditation retreat earlier this year. All of my symptoms went away, beginning on day 3 and lasting for the duration of the retreat. I've never felt better.
Since I returned from the retreat, I've been trying to replicate the state I was in to no avail.
Well, after reading this thread, I felt determined to try to release my psoas. I set a timer for 40 minutes, laid down in the constructive rest position, and started performing holotropic breathing (breathing deeply in a circular pattern) while focusing intensely on the sensations in my psoas.
After 20 minutes or so, I began to experience sensations I haven't experienced since my meditation retreat. I felt those muscles begin to release, along with a heightened awareness of the sensations in my genitals. I continued doing the holotropic breathwork, and it kind of felt like I was "blowing up" my hips, pelvis, and genitalia, as if it was all one big balloon. Those muscles began to tense up involuntarily, which somehow seemed to give me relief.
After the 40 minutes was up, I stood up to walk to the bathroom, and then my knees did something odd. It felt as though my legs were buckling, and my knees were in pain. I gave up trying to go to the bathroom, and wound up limping to my couch and collapsing.
Then I started laughing, almost uncontrollably for a minute.
This reminded me of a YouTube video I watched a while back about TRE/bioenergetics. The guy said that his bioenergetic therapist told him to basically hump a couch for five minutes, loosening up the hips. Toward the end of the five minutes, he exploded in a fit of uncontrollable laughter.
One time I tried bioenergetics myself for an hour, and then had a horrible fit of road rage afterward.
My best explanation for this is that the body stores all sorts of trauma and repressed emotion in its musculature, and anything that releases muscular tension (meditation, holotropic breathing, TRE/bioenergetics, massage, yoga, psychedelics, etc.) can cause a release.
I'm going to experiment with this combination of the constructive rest position, holotropic breathing and sensory meditation over the next several days, and see if I can distill this into a recipe that anyone can follow.
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CuriousCharacter
I believe POIS is at least 90% related to muscle tension. Each one has different problems that lead to POIS. In my case the relief of muscle tension is what helps to have fewer symptoms.
In the case of the psoas muscle, it is interesting that one of the causes that it becomes tense and shortened is if there is weakness of the glutes. Butt weakness mainly occurs by staying long periods in the sitting position. These days it's the position we've been practically all day. We worked sitting up, drive the car seated, watch TV seated down, at home in front of the computer sitting down, went to the restaurant with friends and sat down.
Let's make it all better. Release the psoas and strength the gluteos!
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I think you're on to something, Fernando.
I just had my first ever craniosacral therapy session a couple hours ago.
I went into it expecting it to be a waste of money, but came out very surprised. It was basically what I'd imagine psychedelic therapy would be like, but without the visualizations. After about five minutes I was involuntarily shaking and crying my eyes out. I could feel so much tension getting released...
This is all gonna sound very unscientific, but is possible that we have some sort of instinctual "guard" up 24/7, trying to keep us safe? Is it possible that the ego is so terrified of vulnerability that it will ramp up the immune system, causing widespread inflammation, and keep the breathing shallow and the musculature tight to prevent the release of tension, trauma, heavy metals and even semen from our body?
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Curious
Many things happen and have no scientific explanation, but physical therapy and breathing have proven.
This other psychological issue really depends on one's feelings. But I agree with you that you wrote about vulnerability and trauma.
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I dont know about cranial or physical therapy I am a little agnostic on that approach, however I do believe instinctual guard 24x7 that you refer is at the root of our problem. I think all of us had a terrified childhood. Shallow breathing you refer and tight musculature that prevents release of substances, I think that is spot on at least for me. My speech issues are due to shallow breathing and all my life I have tried to loosen muscles, I keep tight vocal cords, but just unable to successfully do it substantially. We have learnt and embedded shallow breathing and tightness so much into who we are that now in adulthood I dont know if its even possible to re-learn at a molecular level in our bodies. I think a combination of behavioral (re-learning) plus some powerful medicine cocktail can maybe cure us.
This is all gonna sound very unscientific, but is possible that we have some sort of instinctual "guard" up 24/7, trying to keep us safe? Is it possible that the ego is so terrified of vulnerability that it will ramp up the immune system, causing widespread inflammation, and keep the breathing shallow and the musculature tight to prevent the release of tension, trauma, heavy metals and even semen from our body?
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Did you have a change in diet while on the retreat?
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Did you have a change in diet while on the retreat?
The food was vegetarian. I ate a lot of fruit. On several days, all I ate was an apple and a banana at 6am, and then maybe a couple apples and bananas at noon. I typically didn't eat anything after 1pm.
Sometimes I'd eat rice, oatmeal, deserts or some curry. But my main staple was fruit. I didn't eat much, and I didn't sleep more than four hours a night. But I was filled with energy. I think my body was so relaxed that it was almost as if I was sleeping... lots of theta brainwaves.
Now that I've left the retreat, it's the opposite. I eat lots of fatty meat. Not many carbohydrates. And I tend to feast in the evening.
I'm planning to try out that diet again for a few days - mostly fruit in the morning, nothing in the evening - and see if it improves my symptoms. But my guess is that the state of complete and total relaxation was the real medicine there.
We have learnt and embedded shallow breathing and tightness so much into who we are that now in adulthood I dont know if its even possible to re-learn at a molecular level in our bodies. I think a combination of behavioral (re-learning) plus some powerful medicine cocktail can maybe cure us.
I certainly hope so. As far as the medicine cocktail is concerned, high doses of magnesium are a lifesaver. And perhaps the occasional mushroom trip (although this may not be the best thing for someone with a MTHFR mutation).
What kinds of things are you doing to instill these behavioral changes?
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This could be the cure for POIS 'mushroom trip'. I am just reading about it, goodness I never knew. I have not tried and dont plan to since I would rather try it in hands of a capable person first time so I maximize the good results from it, but guys THIS IS IT. Wow, Wow, this could cure SO MANY OTHER illnesses. I dont know how to say it, but I believe that many kids have many problems growing up but most grow out of it. The exception are the overly sensitive kids like we POIS suffererers dont have that learning opportunity (therapy alone does not help us) and we get stuck in our childhood problems. Does anyone know if its possible to find capable practitioners that actually use something like these 'mushroom trips' and can retrain our flawed processes. I am thinking for myself that I have intensely shallow breathing that I rob many organs from oxygenation, I think I have a flawed way of formulating my speech also, certain mental processes, but most imp. incorrect breathing pattern, when I am finishing my sentence I feel I'm choking and out of breadth. Normal speech therapy, behavioral techniques, CBT's, orthopedic or joint manipulations etc are not very useful (they work for a short time period and then our bodies immediately return to its flawed state) since we are now adults and our bodies is not easy to get retrained in a systemic way all through, but reading what I just did about mushroom trips, I think we can cure our flawed processes THOUGH there needs to be practitioners trained in this art. Guys could you chime?
fyi: Magnesium does NOTHING for me. I have tried Magtein (Magnesium-L-Theoronate) supposed to cross BBB effectively.
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Does anyone know if its possible to find capable practitioners that actually use something like these 'mushroom trips' and can retrain our flawed processes.
Johns Hopkins is doing lots of research on psychedelic therapy, but the practice remains illegal in the United States. There are psychedelic retreats outside of the US though. Many of them incorporate other practices like meditation, holotropic breathing, etc. You can find lists of these retreats online:
https://retreat.guru/be/spirit-plant-medicine
There's also a website called The Third Wave that is on the cutting edge of this stuff. Definitely worth checking out: https://thethirdwave.co/
My first real mushroom trip happened earlier this year at a music festival. In a period of a few hours, I experienced what seemed equivalent to a few years of psychotherapy. I had the sensation that the weight of the world had lifted off my shoulders. The sense of calm was... almost unbelievable.
Psilocybin really has a knack for shooting you back into your body, and telling you exactly what's wrong in your mind, body and spirit. Even a large microdose (say 0.5g) will have that effect.
With that said, there are legal modalities that can accomplish similar things. They just require more work and/or money. Holotropic breathing is powerful stuff. My first impression of craniosacral therapy is that it could be a good alternative to psychedelic therapy.
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fyi: Magnesium does NOTHING for me. I have tried Magtein (Magnesium-L-Theoronate) supposed to cross BBB effectively.
What was the dose? I never noticed the effects until I took 600mg of mag citrate at once.
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Magnesium-L-Theoronate does not supply very much elemental magnesium, so it's not useful for correcting deficiencies.
I suspect that I was magnesium deficient from years of ketogenic dieting and intermittent fasting. I always supplemented magnesium, but higher-dose magnesium seems to cause a huge improvement in my anxiety and muscular tension.
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If I want to strenghten my psoas do I have to see a chiropractor or an osteopath? I know there are video’s on Youtube. But my healthe insurrance pays a few treatments for ‘alternative medics’. So it’s better to see a professional.
Check this:
1999 Selected Abstracts from American Urological Association annual meeting.
©1999 James R. Noyes
I have suffered from chronic prostatitis and/or prostatodynia for six years. The symptoms of my particular case of CP have, at one time or another, included the following: Urethral pain, severe pain in the epididymis and testicle, post-ejaculate pain, post-urination pain, post-bowel-movement pain, "groin" pain, knee pain, "hip joint" pain, abdomen pain, and back pain. Pain was of the "burning" or "tingling" type as well as the "pulled muscle" type.
Other symptoms included a weakened urine stream, weakened erection, and weakened orgasm. Various treatments of these symptoms have, at one time or another, included the following: Massive doses of antibiotics, muscle-relaxants, antidepressants, painkillers, and hot baths. None of these "treatments" were effective in relieving my symptoms--not one! Does this sound all too familiar?
Standard treatments for CP are ineffective because they fail to address the root causes of CP. The root cause of my CP (and many other cases from what I've seen posted) appears to have nothing to do with the prostate itself, but everything to do with the muscles around the prostate and around the male sex organs. The muscle problems are more severe than can be helped with muscle-relaxants, however. The good news is there is a very effective treatment for this.
My hypothesis is that chronic prostatitis and/or prostatodynia is caused by dysfunction of:
Iliopsoas muscle
Pectineus muscle
Muscles (and nerves) surrounding the above
My hypothesis is that chronic prostatitis and/or prostatodynia is aggravated by:
Extended periods of sitting (especially driving)
Tight jeans/pants, tight belts, tight underwear
Sexual activity when the above muscles are dysfunctioning
Some evidence to support such a hypothesis is found below: The iliopsoas muscle is known as a "hidden prankster" due to the fact that it "serves many critical functions, often causes pain , and is relatively inaccessible." Referred pain occurs from the "thoracic region to the sacroiliac area, and sometimes to the upper buttock. Pain is referred similarly from the iliacus and often also to the anterior thigh and groin ."
The iliopsoas muscleruns from the lower back down to the pelvis and borders, among other things, the ureter, spermatic vessels, genito-crural nerve, and the colon.
It appears likely, that if the iliopsoas muscle "often causes pain," these highly sensitive border areas could very well be affected. If this conjecture seems wholly improbable, consider what is known:
Ililpsoas minor syndrome is easily mistaken for appendicitis
Scrotal pain (epididymis, testicle, etc.) has been linked to the iliopsoas muscle
The iliopsoas muscle (a.k.a. the "hidden prankster") is a muscle that can cramp up from sitting (especially if the knees are above the waist). If you sit for long periods of time (at the computer, desk, driving, etc.) your iliopsoas muscle is in a constant state of contraction, which, over time, can lead to pain. Tight fitting pants exacerbate this situation tremendously. Since the iliopsoas muscle is also active while standing, running, and is "vigorously active through the last 60°ree; of a sit-up," these activities could also, if overdone, trigger pain.
The iliopsoas muscle can trigger the pectineus muscleas well. Persistent painfrom the pectineus muscle can occur from "tripping or falling on a staircase, may follow fracture of the femoral neck or a total hip replacement, or may occur in a situation that causes strong resistance to adduction of the thigh, such as sexual activity or gymnastic exercises."
To test this muscle dysfunction hypothesis on my own, I tried the following treatments:
Deep-tissue massage of the iliopsoas, pectineus, and surrounding muscles
Daily stretching of above muscles and tissues
Hot sauna therapy (also steam/whirlpool/bath therapy)
While my treatment is still ongoing, the great news is I'm feeling 90-95% recovered from what was once a rather debilitating, demoralizing, and depressing condition. It's taken nearly two years and the recovery is gradual-not overnight.
Presently, most days are symptom free! Since stretching on its own will show only limited results, sessions with an expert deep-tissue therapist are an absolute must! Look for:
NCTMB -- Nationally Certified in Theraputic Massage and Bodywork;
NMT -- Neuro Muscular Therapist; or
Any therapist trained in the "St. John Method" of Neruomuscular Therapy
For those of you looking for a "quick-fix," don’t expect any improvement without extreme diligence on your part–stretching (long, deep stretches which last 30 seconds to 10 minutes) must become a daily routine. One must be aware that, at times, the pain may worsen before it gets better (one step backward–two steps forward). These therapies have helped me immeasurably and it is my sincere hope, these therapies will be of help to those of you serious about finding relief from chronic prostatitis and/or prostatodynia.
A special thanks to my deep-tissue massage therapist, Deborah Bamford, NCTMB, for her knowledge, dedication, and unwavering support in my ongoing search for a life without chronic pain.
Sources: Myofascial Pain and Dysfunction: The Trigger Point Manual, volumes 1 & 2, by Janet G. Travell, M.D. and David G. Simons, M.D., and Gray’s Anatomy, by Henry Gray, F.R.S. Send questions/comments to JNoyes2000@aol.com.
http://www.prostatitis.org/muscle.html
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My fysiotherapist checked my Psoas. She said it was ok.
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I'm a PT and Osteopath. I think this thread is spot on for a form of POIS that is caused by muscular tension, an autonomous nervous system (ANS) that is somehow disregulated, and some sort of psychological trauma present.
Musculature of the pelvic floor, psoas and diaphragm have a tight anatomical connection. they also have a two-way relationship with the ANS. Our nervous system connects psychological trauma with tension in the body, and that changes movement patterns, which again influences tension and the nervous system and the psyche. Manual therapy can only help you so far (I think it definitely can help manage symptoms) but in the end, everyone has to do the work of redefining the relationship between your mind, your ANS and your body himself. I think the ways to improve have mostly been mentioned here. Self-release of pelvic floor / psoas / diaphragm through stretches and self-trigger-point therapy. holotropic breathing. trauma-release exercises, meditation (I'm partial to heart coherence meditation and mahasi). psilocybin, either micro dosing or big ones (safer use and due diligence is not negotiable here). CBT, changing your relationship with other people. good cranio sacral therapy. feldenkrais. dancing. taijiquan. some forms of yoga.
You won't get something out of nothing. but if you start feeling effects, you'll understand that not doing this stuff is not an option. I am a POIS sufferer myself, it was never awfully bad, but always needed to be managed. It's a big part of why I got into my line of work. What really gave me the kick to seriously do the work that is needed (and not just fiddle about) was a bad, bad psilocybin trip, that made me understand some things and gave me the will to do what is needed to get better.
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Qiao, welcome to the forum.
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I'm a PT and Osteopath. I think this thread is spot on for a form of POIS that is caused by muscular tension...
My take: Local muscular tension ---> local stress ---> local mast cell activation ---> local MC mediators migrating to and activating/stimulating MC cells elsewhere in the body making you susceptible for other triggers and lowering existing trigger thresholds.
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I'm a PT and Osteopath. I think this thread is spot on for a form of POIS that is caused by muscular tension...
My take: Local muscular tension ---> local stress ---> local mast cell activation ---> local MC mediators migrating to and activating/stimulating MC cells elsewhere in the body making you susceptible for other triggers and lowering existing trigger thresholds.
How do MC mediators travel?
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My take: Local muscular tension ---> local stress ---> local mast cell activation ---> local MC mediators migrating to and activating/stimulating MC cells elsewhere in the body making you susceptible for other triggers and lowering existing trigger thresholds.
if so, where does that tension come from? osteopaths have their pet theory of the primary lesion, basically the first thing to go wrong, triggering a cascade of compensatory patterns through the body. if the local muscle is at the root (having pulled it bc of an accident for example), trigger pointing it or stretching it a few times should take care of the problem for good. but problems often return, so you try to fix more and more til you hopefully find the root. if it started with an accident, you stand good chances that a manual practitioner, chiro etc. can help you with soft tissue work or manipulations, 2-3 sessions tops. if it's tension you hold for psychological reasons, it will always return, and you're going to have to solve that psychological problem.
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Huh, that's an interesting angle! Some facts about my case that might suggest a PSOAS connection:
* POIS for 20+ years
* Chronic background stress/anxiety all of adult life
* I suspect I have had a childhood trauma (messy divorce, remember very little from childhood)
* Have had chronic pain, tension and stiffness around lower back, glutes, hamstrings and sartorius, despite leading a healthy lifestyle (except I'm sitting a lot)
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I can also report psoas pains for a couple of years now, preceding POIS. Plus pelvic floor issues.
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Do any of the people contributing in this thread give us some updates?
Have the psoas exercises come up with a solution, partly as it may be?
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Hi all,
I was introduced to Trauma Releasing Exercises (TRE) by a naturopathic doctor and certified TRE practitioner recently. The results (via regular practice) towards my overall well-being have been incredible. Many physical and mental issues that I've been carrying for a long-time are starting to shift. I'm confident that it will reduce my POIS symptoms in time. Will keep you posted!
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Hi guys. My psoas is definitely tense, and has been for as long as I can remember. I while back (a year ago maybe?) I did some psoas release exercises (based on TRE) for a couple of months. Unfortunately the exercises would trigger my POIS symptoms a bit, and ultimately did not make the psoas less tense.
I might give it another try now, as I think I've made a little bit of progress on my anxiety and stress through other means (mindfulness, nutrition, Wim Hof), so maybe I can do some psoas exercises again without triggering POIS.
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Indeed, T.R.E. therapy targets the psoas muscle to relieve tensions / stress hormones accumulated there. The body-tremors that are provoked used to be a classic reaction that animals still manifest after acute stress but that we humans lost due to culturization.
I myself tried it several times. Often the first 2 days, my symptoms got considerably worse, with nightmares and high stress levels, but then i used to go back to normal. Does that mean i have released an amount of stress hormones? I don't know but it sounds plausible.
The tremor-reaction is quite intense for me, so that i 2x injured myself with a strain in a muscle, which forced me to give up.
Big coincidence: i started again 2 days ago, but the reaction was too strong: massive POIS-symptoms the day after. Not feeling very comfortable with going on now (while that probably is what i should do)
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Thanks for sharing your experience Aladin.
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I am curious, has anyone else here broken their tailbone at some point? Or maybe fallen on it really hard? I remember falling hard on my tailbone twice during the time I was in puberty. I did not find out until years later that my tailbone has been broken at least once. So it is possible to break it and to not be aware.
yes i did hurt my back about the age of 8
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I am curious, has anyone else here broken their tailbone at some point? Or maybe fallen on it really hard? I remember falling hard on my tailbone twice during the time I was in puberty. I did not find out until years later that my tailbone has been broken at least once. So it is possible to break it and to not be aware.
When I was like 8 I fell with my backtail on the slidey snow during the winter