POISCENTER
POIS Cause/Treatment Discussions => Auto-Immune Causes and Treatments => Topic started by: biocentric on May 20, 2011, 04:35:48 PM
-
Buy a uretha catheter off ebay, freeze semen, then when out-of-POIS, put it down (the correct pipe (not urine one!)) and wait for POIS.. or not..
discuss...
-
We talked about it in a section already...
I suggested it and then wanted to try. I got a O, then froze the semen. 2 weeks after i tried to introduce it in the urethra but it was so narrow that it was impossible :s
If you find a better way to introduce it, let me know :)
-
I think we've only got one pipe, at least up until the prostate, where the rest of the stuff gets mixed in.
The suspicious tissue where the inflection can start and the allery chain may be activated is the mucosal epithelium, which is a lymphatic tissue which lines the urinary tract.
These tissues, line much of the male reproductive and urinary tract. Starting from parts of the testicles through the epididymus, vas, prostate and urethra.
Whether injecting in the urethra is a proof positive test, I would doubt, but it's worth trying. As a matter of fact, there are a few looking into it.
For my money, the epididymus could be a very suspicious possiblilty, as it is a very delicate tissue of very thin condiuts meters in length... I don't remember how many. However we can't inject semen there other than having an orgasm....
-
We talked about it in a section already...
I suggested it and then wanted to try. I got a O, then froze the semen. 2 weeks after i tried to introduce it in the urethra but it was so narrow that it was impossible :s
If you find a better way to introduce it, let me know :)
Was it a urinary catheter? It should fit without problems. I don't know if they use a sterile lubricant? Anybody know? There has to be something on internet.
-
I will check where i could get an "urinary catheter" i didn't use that, so it would be great with this catheter !
-
yeah a urinary catheter with vasoline should work, (you may have to water down the semen alittle abit?)
i think there are two pipes in the penis but i maybe wrong.
id do it myelf but im living with my parents currently, cant really freeze my semen without them knowing!
-
I live with my mother and i explained her why i froze it, i am lucky she is open minded !
The matter for me for the test is "even with no POIS, i am drained/brain fog all the time" so i couldn't really compare the Non POIS state and the POIS if it occurs with the test"...
-
yeah a urinary catheter with vasoline should work, (you may have to water down the semen alittle abit?)
i think there are two pipes in the penis but i maybe wrong.
id do it myelf but im living with my parents currently, cant really freeze my semen without them knowing!
Nope just one pipe. There's a good picture in the "theoretical discussion of POIS" that emi_b started. in alternative treatments I think.
Yeah, I can't freeze mine either for the same reason. My wife knows, but there are other people in the house!
I wondered about the lubrication, be it (artificial) vaginal lubricant or vaseline, if it would coat the urethra and effect the reaction?
-
That's a very nice idea !
The last point is not easy to do anyway.
-
Most of you guys already know this, but if you have problems freezing, I would just take a fresh dab of the stuff and put it under your tongue. At least you can test that way for a topical response. I got immediate numbing of the mouth and throat.
-
I'm thinking about this test. Maybe it's a very good idea but I have found a negative point. Not sure, just an hypothesis.
In fact, ejaculation is not only the way out for sperm. There is some pressure.
You can't simulate the pressure of normal ejaculation with this test.
I mean maybe the pressure play a role in pois. We know the sperm is going into lymphoid tissues. But the pressure may play a role to penetrate into these tissues.
If you only deposite the semen in urethra, there is no pressure and maybe the sperm can't go into the lymphoid tissues and then activing immune system.
That was just an idea, maybe I'm wrong...
-
test
-
Not for me sorry ;D
I don't want to introduce something in my urethra :-X
About this, we told about washing and eliminate semen just after ejaculation. We hope to reduce the contact between skin/vessels and semen. To wash the urethra is not something easy. One "strange strategy" I have tried is simply to drink before and try to urinate soon after ejaculation to eliminate semen.
-
Most of you guys already know this, but if you have problems freezing, I would just take a fresh dab of the stuff and put it under your tongue. At least you can test that way for a topical response. I got immediate numbing of the mouth and throat.
Tried this (yuck) and had no reaction/numbing.
-
I'm still testing to wash after orgasm and try to eliminate as semen as possible.
Before orgasm I drink a glass of water and I urinate some minutes after. Even if it sounds strange, I think the idea is good...
But I think it's too late. I think it's a bit usless because the penetration of semen in lymphoid tissues is caused by the pressure of ejaculation and not only the contact.
-
Zero symptoms for my last episode.
For the sufferers which haven't any success with niacin or others, they should try.
-
B_Jim, I read your strategy but I don't get it. You say the pressure plays a role. And then you eliminate the pressure by washing the inside and peeing right after? Don't get the pressure thing and don't get the strategy.
-
Hi Rock,
I think what b_jim means (correct me if I'm wrong b_jim) is that, at the point of ejaculation, semen travels through the plumbing under high pressure and thus this pressure might force the semen through any weaknesses/gaps in our plumbing into tissues where it wouldn't normally go, thus causing an immune reaction. So upon ejaculation (the high pressure event) the damage is already done. Urinating afterward will only clear semen still remaining in the urethra, not any that might have already been forced out into other tissues if there are weaknesses in the plumbing. Likewise, washing would only get rid of external semen in contact with the skin. (drinking water before O is just a strategy for being able to urinate soon after O thus flushing out any semen that remains in the urethra).
Of course, all this is assuming that our problems are caused by semen coming into contact internally with tissue it wouldn't normally be in contact with and causing an immune reaction. Its only a theory.
-
Yes, this is correct.
In fact I have told about two things linked or not, it's not clear.
I think the pression of ejaculation might play a role. The semen must penetrate into lymphoid tissues to trigger immune reaction. Is it possible to reduce this ? Hmm, ;D I don't know but sometimes ejaculations are stronger and sometimes weaker. This is why I said to put semen in urethra is maybe not a good test.
But since I said that, we get a new argument :
It seems fresh semen triggers the auto-immune/allergic reaction BUT this is not the case for frozen semen, according to Habibou (or Vandermolen?) 's test. So this point may explain why the test is not effective and maybe the effect of pressure of ejaculation don't play a role.
But some guys seems very sensible to semen contact on skin. I already try to put fresh semen on my arm skin without success. But maybe the contact inside urethra mucosa is enough to trigger Pois. My 10 last orgasms, I've washed my penis and urinate just after orgasm. I have to say there is clearly residual semen in this urine.
Sorry for inelegant post. :-\
-
I think the pressure theory could well explain my case of POIS. Because I don't have POIS when I have NE, or when the semen is going out slowly and partially. But POIS symptoms are developed only when I have normal orgasm and semen is pushed out actively.
Victor
-
When I did the skinpr.ick test it wasn't clear what I should bring. So I took frozen semen and fresh semen to the clinic. The doctor used the fresh semen. He said that the effect of fresh semen is better. And with the injection therapy he always uses fresh semen. But in the paper of dr. Waldinger they said they used frozen semen. So I don't know if there is something to find.
At the clinic they already thought about looking at which part of the semen brings the reaction. And if they could find it they could make a pill or substance, so the POIS-patient doesn't have to ejaculate every time before the injection. But the doctor said that this kind of research is too expensive in The Netherlands. Maybe in the US they have more money.
But what I think is that the problem is not the sperm but the seed moisture. I think that is the case because a lot of POIS-patients get some POIS-symptoms after arousal. With an O. At arousal there is only seed moisture.
-
My feeling is that it's possible at least in some cases that pressure is not even required. Let's say certain tissues are already generally inflamed from some other problem. My case is good example, but it could reflect many others. That is, that because of the circumstance of vasectomy and then reversal, anti-bodies present in the system cause damage. This was even told to me by the urologist who did the reversal. The sperm anti-bodies as a result of the vasectomy would attack the sperm in the vas and kill them "and could even damage the microsurgery that reopened the vas".
So if that area is inflamed already, it wouldn't even require pressure to find a way into the bloodstream.
There are many other possibilities that could present the same conditions. So damaged tissues, from whatever, could present conditions of inflammation which could allow for transference of material across the blood barrier, even without pressure.
I'm pretty certain though that it's not just the urethra that is the sensitive part, partly because of the wide variety of symptomatic profiles. It could be in the epididymis, the vas the prostate etc etc. So perhaps the location of the "breach" effects which actions start the process.
-
Damn, Vandermolen is right : dr Waldinger used frozen samples for study.
-
When I did the skinpr.ick test it wasn't clear what I should bring. So I took frozen semen and fresh semen to the clinic. The doctor used the fresh semen. He said that the effect of fresh semen is better. And with the injection therapy he always uses fresh semen. But in the paper of dr. Waldinger they said they used frozen semen. So I don't know if there is something to find.
At the clinic they already thought about looking at which part of the semen brings the reaction. And if they could find it they could make a pill or substance, so the POIS-patient doesn't have to ejaculate every time before the injection. But the doctor said that this kind of research is too expensive in The Netherlands. Maybe in the US they have more money.
But what I think is that the problem is not the sperm but the seed moisture. I think that is the case because a lot of POIS-patients get some POIS-symptoms after arousal. With an O. At arousal there is only seed moisture.
when you say moisture are you talking about water, or the other parts of semen that keep things lubricated so semen can come out easily.
sounds like what dr bernstein in ohio did for limejuice, it cost limejuice above a thousand imagine doing that for about ten patients on more than one occasion.
-
I mean the watery and sticky substance that comes at the first moment after arousal. 70 % of semen contains this moisture. Because a lot of us have POIS-symptoms just after arousal and without an O.
I think that at after arousal, without an O. there is no sperm (seed). Only the moisture. So the moisture should be one of the problems. And after O. the POIS-symptoms go very bad maybe because of the sperm. So maybe there is something in the moisture and maybe something in the sperm (seed).
-
Why not simply placing the semen under the tongue?
-
After several tests, I recommand to wash the penis and try to urinate just after ejaculation to decrease symptoms.
-
Has anyone ever tried injecting their own semen back into their urethra days later?
Essentially you'd ejaculate into a sterile container. Freeze it. Wait for POIS to subside. Then warm up the frozen semen and inject it with a small syringe into the urethra ideally as deep as possible. Wait 5-10 minutes before urinating it back out.
Is there a flaw with this experiment? Would this not at least rule out a contact based/localized immune reaction theories?
-
the risk of causing an infection by contamination is likely very high
-
I think the pressure theory could well explain my case of POIS. Because I don't have POIS when I have NE, or when the semen is going out slowly and partially. But POIS symptoms are developed only when I have normal orgasm and semen is pushed out actively.
Victor
Same for me, if I only have a partial micro contraction orgasm by getting close to edge and the semen slightly pushing towards the tip and out of it but not activating the full orgasmic contraction I have zero POIS despite of some semen escaping but a full contraction always is guaranteed to give POIS for me
-
The posters in this thread are largely off-topic; this is not a thread to discuss your specific symptoms. It seems no one in all these years has actually tried to do this obvious experiment. I'll be ordering a ureteral catheter to try this out and report results.
the risk of causing an infection by contamination is likely very high
There's nearly zero infection risk beyond that of normal intercourse. There's entire fetish sites with people sticking large objects in their urethera (called "sounding", viewer beware) and they're fine. Just wipe the catheter down with alcohol if you're worried.