Author Topic: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?  (Read 32880 times)

Daveman

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2012, 06:57:09 AM »
I want to make a positive note!! Believe it or not.

I / we are NOT saying necessarily that sperm desensitization therapy for POIS is BS! Nor is it being said that the allergy theory will not be considered for research.
What is being said is that present research on this subject does not comply with minimums for standard allergy treatment and undocumented doubts leave very dangerous potential exposed.

The NORD MAC, who evaluate proposals and makes the final acceptation of candidates  is VERY experienced in dealing with rare disorders, they have faced conundrums (mysteries, challenges) far more complex than POIS. They focus on a methodology to positively determine what is going on. On some cases this may not mean an immanent solution, but a solid definition and a certain starting point.

We are probably far enough along (and I am sure they will see MOST of our findings) that a good starting point may well be more evident. BUT it is so important to know "what is going on". If we knew that now, we would have on tenth the problems we do now.

So no approach is closed, as none is assured. Certainly WE cannot make that decision, nor would want to. We cannot take the responsibility to decide what is the right path for research, for all we think we know. That's why we are paying the RIGHT people to do it.

WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!

LAPOISSE

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2012, 07:44:07 AM »
If anybody make an ANAPHYLAXIS someday, we'll be fixed about the allergy theory ; All we got today is skin reactions(my doc said maybe 70% of the normal population have a skin reaction to their own sperm that should'nt be injected in the skin) and few feelings of recovery ; Is there any way to monitor an allergic reaction without going as far as Anaphylaxis ?

For three reason, I think Allergy theory still could be the good one :
1.Several testimonies and notably the Animus story
2.Only theory wich fit with the fact that lot of us got symptoms just after arousal(sperm is not release but some components of the semen are : maybe we should look at them)
3. Since I know about Pois, I've been dramaticly reduce my O frequency...and I think the symptoms got worse....it's like having orgasm frequently was a kind of "auto desens" and the fact of avoiding them made me more sensitive.

Any ways, i'm pretty sure even if the cause is allergic there is consequences in hormones and neurotransmitters ; symptoms and cure reactions point that

It's pretty frustrating that after 10 years of investigation we are not even sure about the beginning of an explanation...

This will probably make yell people here but i'll have no problem to take the risk to definitly valid or invalid the allergy theory ; I'm pretty sure, if we got (under strong medical supervision) raising dose of semen and monitor the reactions(histamine level, physical reactions, etc) we'll have some tangible result, a real proof and something to start with....or we'll focus research in something else


kurtosis

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2012, 08:46:37 AM »
If anybody make an ANAPHYLAXIS someday, we'll be fixed about the allergy theory ; All we got today is skin reactions(my doc said maybe 70% of the normal population have a skin reaction to their own sperm that should'nt be injected in the skin) and few feelings of recovery ; Is there any way to monitor an allergic reaction without going as far as Anaphylaxis ?

For three reason, I think Allergy theory still could be the good one :
1.Several testimonies and notably the Animus story
2.Only theory wich fit with the fact that lot of us got symptoms just after arousal(sperm is not release but some components of the semen are : maybe we should look at them)
3. Since I know about Pois, I've been dramaticly reduce my O frequency...and I think the symptoms got worse....it's like having orgasm frequently was a kind of "auto desens" and the fact of avoiding them made me more sensitive.

Any ways, i'm pretty sure even if the cause is allergic there is consequences in hormones and neurotransmitters ; symptoms and cure reactions point that

It's pretty frustrating that after 10 years of investigation we are not even sure about the beginning of an explanation...

This will probably make yell people here but i'll have no problem to take the risk to definitly valid or invalid the allergy theory ; I'm pretty sure, if we got (under strong medical supervision) raising dose of semen and monitor the reactions(histamine level, physical reactions, etc) we'll have some tangible result, a real proof and something to start with....or we'll focus research in something else


Histamine is released anyway as part of an O by mast cells in the genitals. It makes perfect sense why animus solution worked (even if it's very harsh) and that doesn't require anybody to have any allergy to seminal fluid.

I've seen posts saying that people have tried anti-histamines and they don't work on POIS. There are different kinds of histamine receptor and they could each cause different POIS symptoms. Rashes, itches, heart palpitations, stomach upset and serious cognition problems can all be caused by sets of H1, H2 and H3 histamine receptors.

Anti-histamines are designed to be receptor specific and modern anti-histamines are designed to have minimal crossing of the blood brain barrier (although some papers suggest it still happens). Therefore, taking zirtek or similar has NO CHANCE of making the cognitive symptoms of POIS go away and doesn't disprove the histamine theory at all.

It's entirely possible that some POIS sufferers have an allergic reaction to seminal fluid but we've no evidence it's actually taking place and how would we separate that from the normal histamine release at an orgasm?

For instance, I experience NO RASH WHATSOEVER on the point of my penis that has the most exposure to sperm whether I clean it well after an O or not. None.
Have any gay POIS sufferers shown allergy to their partner's sperm? I'm really interested to know.

demografx

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2012, 11:28:07 AM »
Thank you, LAPOISSE and kurtosis!
Usually have major POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks associated with it.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business.

Ccconfucius

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2012, 08:35:11 PM »
If anybody make an ANAPHYLAXIS someday, we'll be fixed about the allergy theory ; All we got today is skin reactions(my doc said maybe 70% of the normal population have a skin reaction to their own sperm that should'nt be injected in the skin) and few feelings of recovery ; Is there any way to monitor an allergic reaction without going as far as Anaphylaxis ?

For three reason, I think Allergy theory still could be the good one :
1.Several testimonies and notably the Animus story
2.Only theory wich fit with the fact that lot of us got symptoms just after arousal(sperm is not release but some components of the semen are : maybe we should look at them)
3. Since I know about Pois, I've been dramaticly reduce my O frequency...and I think the symptoms got worse....it's like having orgasm frequently was a kind of "auto desens" and the fact of avoiding them made me more sensitive.

Any ways, i'm pretty sure even if the cause is allergic there is consequences in hormones and neurotransmitters ; symptoms and cure reactions point that

It's pretty frustrating that after 10 years of investigation we are not even sure about the beginning of an explanation...

This will probably make yell people here but i'll have no problem to take the risk to definitly valid or invalid the allergy theory ; I'm pretty sure, if we got (under strong medical supervision) raising dose of semen and monitor the reactions(histamine level, physical reactions, etc) we'll have some tangible result, a real proof and something to start with....or we'll focus research in something else


Histamine is released anyway as part of an O by mast cells in the genitals. It makes perfect sense why animus solution worked (even if it's very harsh) and that doesn't require anybody to have any allergy to seminal fluid.

I've seen posts saying that people have tried anti-histamines and they don't work on POIS. There are different kinds of histamine receptor and they could each cause different POIS symptoms. Rashes, itches, heart palpitations, stomach upset and serious cognition problems can all be caused by sets of H1, H2 and H3 histamine receptors.

Anti-histamines are designed to be receptor specific and modern anti-histamines are designed to have minimal crossing of the blood brain barrier (although some papers suggest it still happens). Therefore, taking zirtek or similar has NO CHANCE of making the cognitive symptoms of POIS go away and doesn't disprove the histamine theory at all.

It's entirely possible that some POIS sufferers have an allergic reaction to seminal fluid but we've no evidence it's actually taking place and how would we separate that from the normal histamine release at an orgasm?

For instance, I experience NO RASH WHATSOEVER on the point of my penis that has the most exposure to sperm whether I clean it well after an O or not. None.
Have any gay POIS sufferers shown allergy to their partner's sperm? I'm really interested to know.

how does he doing the operation reduce his histamine.  He still has normal orgasm the only different is way less semen.  wont his body still recruit mast cell.  Are you saying semen naturally cause histamine release.

a point in support of high histamine: histamine is key to  orgasm and can be behind premature ejaculation and alot of us have premajucation.  

I can orgasm five times straight and the sixth will still orgasm  very quick.



« Last Edit: November 03, 2012, 08:40:08 PM by CertainlyPOIS »

Egordon

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2012, 11:56:59 PM »
While I think it's important to ensure that people considering desensitization are fully aware of the risks (and this is ESPECIALLY TRUE with SLIT and other procedures not administered under the supervision of a physician) this post shades heavily into fearmongering and putting people off of the only real technique that we've seen sustained success from. It, in many cases, OVERSTATES the risk of professionally administered desens, and in some implies risks that there's little or no scientific support for. There are a number of us who have benefitted from desens and have shared our experiences on this board. Are our experiences (and the 50% reduction in my symptoms) "fiction" daveman?

How is this approach at all productive? What we should be doing is something that you and Demo are usually quite keen to do (but have refrained from doing in this case -- instead substituting your expert medical opinions): encourage people to have frank discussions with their doctors regarding their treatment and the (real, rather than fabricated and sensationalistic) risks associated with it.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 12:00:14 AM by Egordon »
POIS since I was about 15. 1.75 years of desens and I'm now about 80% POIS free. Still working through best practices for maintaining my immunity and administering my injections with my doctor. Email me if you have tips or questions!

Vandemolen

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2012, 07:37:14 AM »
FACT: Currently, anaphylaxis leads to 500–1,000 deaths per year in the United States, 20 deaths per year in the United Kingdom, and 15 deaths per year in Australia.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaphylaxis#section_8
Do you know how many people die because of a an anti flu injection? People die because of NSAID. People die because of anti biotics.

Make sure you are in good hands. And that they can go the emmergency room in the hospital.

Desens is done a long time ago. Also for people with pollen allergy. And there is a risk too. With every medication or injection there is a risk.

If someone doesn't want any risk, he or she must do nothing. If he got the flu, do nothing.
POIS since 2000. Very bad since 2008. I knew that I have POIS since June 2010. Desensitization since March 2011. I stopped with desens in July 2016. I have 70% less POIS. And only 1 day of POIS. Purified CBD works for me, but I am allergic for CBD.

Daveman

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2012, 08:15:02 AM »
While I think it's important to ensure that people considering desensitization are fully aware of the risks (and this is ESPECIALLY TRUE with SLIT and other procedures not administered under the supervision of a physician) this post shades heavily into fearmongering and putting people off of the only real technique that we've seen sustained success from. It, in many cases, OVERSTATES the risk of professionally administered desens, and in some implies risks that there's little or no scientific support for. There are a number of us who have benefitted from desens and have shared our experiences on this board. Are our experiences (and the 50% reduction in my symptoms) "fiction" daveman?

How is this approach at all productive? What we should be doing is something that you and Demo are usually quite keen to do (but have refrained from doing in this case -- instead substituting your expert medical opinions): encourage people to have frank discussions with their doctors regarding their treatment and the (real, rather than fabricated and sensationalistic) risks associated with it.

I really do beg to differ on a number of points:

You say desensitization is "the only real technique that we've seen sustained success from". This is NOT true. First of all, for some reason, "the failures of desensitization are highly guarded", we don't see the REAL figures. If it works we hear about it, if it doesn't we don't. An exception to this are the numbers seen through our own members' programs, which unfortunately are still in early testing. Second there is sustained success from other methods with equal or better performance.

You say that we OVERSTATE the risk of professionally administered desens. NO. We STATE CLEARLY that the risk of UNsupervised administration is VERY dangerous. As far as professionally administered desensitization, we are saying that it is being applied without taking into consideration the standard practices normally applied in these cases. Many allergists won't do semen desensitization because they feel that the papers don't guarantee the the testing of critical pre-conditions, that one is or is not allergic to their semen. Many, I would even go so far as to say the majority of professionals can not accept that a reaction to the skin-prick IS evidence that we are allergic to semen. This is extremely important! And if you think that it is fear-mongering, then I'm sorry, you don't understand the importance of this point! IF you are NOT allergic to an allergen, you are only creating a greater problem by introducing it into the system on the other side of the blood barrier. You don't have to be a professional nor expert to know that.

You ask, "There are a number of us who have benefited from desens and have shared our experiences on this board. Are our experiences (and the 50% reduction in my symptoms) "fiction" daveman?"

We have provided this forum to share our experiences. I think that ONE of the GREAT benefits of such is that we get all the numbers. Perhaps we can't control our testing as well as the professionals, perhaps our results may be misleading for that reason, but we SEE everything. We see the successes and the failures. One without the other is of NO value, or at least of little value.

We can compare numbers, on various fronts, we have successes, which are balanced with faiilures. Desens, niacin, TRT among the most promising, none can show complete or even adequate results for all.

I know that those who are serious about testing desens, either through a doctor or on their own, will do so, with or without us. An advantage of this forum is that we can have one thread of several that talks about the down side, the rest can carry on offering their progress to the members without the negative mixed in on top of their input. I am honestly not unlike you, I spend a lot of my time to this cause, in the hope that we can find a solution. If the solution is desens, then so be it and let it shine through.

The good thing is that we are beyond the $24,000 mark thanks to the sponsor and all of you.  If desens is real, if all that's required is to isolate "THE" allergen and devise a proper test, then research will show that. Then we can all go happily for our treatments. But we won't know WHAT our problem is until we do the research. We just won't!
 


« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 08:54:51 AM by Daveman »
WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!

kurtosis

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2012, 09:26:45 AM »
If anybody make an ANAPHYLAXIS someday, we'll be fixed about the allergy theory ; All we got today is skin reactions(my doc said maybe 70% of the normal population have a skin reaction to their own sperm that should'nt be injected in the skin) and few feelings of recovery ; Is there any way to monitor an allergic reaction without going as far as Anaphylaxis ?

For three reason, I think Allergy theory still could be the good one :
1.Several testimonies and notably the Animus story
2.Only theory wich fit with the fact that lot of us got symptoms just after arousal(sperm is not release but some components of the semen are : maybe we should look at them)
3. Since I know about Pois, I've been dramaticly reduce my O frequency...and I think the symptoms got worse....it's like having orgasm frequently was a kind of "auto desens" and the fact of avoiding them made me more sensitive.

Any ways, i'm pretty sure even if the cause is allergic there is consequences in hormones and neurotransmitters ; symptoms and cure reactions point that

It's pretty frustrating that after 10 years of investigation we are not even sure about the beginning of an explanation...

This will probably make yell people here but i'll have no problem to take the risk to definitly valid or invalid the allergy theory ; I'm pretty sure, if we got (under strong medical supervision) raising dose of semen and monitor the reactions(histamine level, physical reactions, etc) we'll have some tangible result, a real proof and something to start with....or we'll focus research in something else


Histamine is released anyway as part of an O by mast cells in the genitals. It makes perfect sense why animus solution worked (even if it's very harsh) and that doesn't require anybody to have any allergy to seminal fluid.

I've seen posts saying that people have tried anti-histamines and they don't work on POIS. There are different kinds of histamine receptor and they could each cause different POIS symptoms. Rashes, itches, heart palpitations, stomach upset and serious cognition problems can all be caused by sets of H1, H2 and H3 histamine receptors.

Anti-histamines are designed to be receptor specific and modern anti-histamines are designed to have minimal crossing of the blood brain barrier (although some papers suggest it still happens). Therefore, taking zirtek or similar has NO CHANCE of making the cognitive symptoms of POIS go away and doesn't disprove the histamine theory at all.

It's entirely possible that some POIS sufferers have an allergic reaction to seminal fluid but we've no evidence it's actually taking place and how would we separate that from the normal histamine release at an orgasm?

For instance, I experience NO RASH WHATSOEVER on the point of my penis that has the most exposure to sperm whether I clean it well after an O or not. None.
Have any gay POIS sufferers shown allergy to their partner's sperm? I'm really interested to know.

how does he doing the operation reduce his histamine.  He still has normal orgasm the only different is way less semen.  wont his body still recruit mast cell.  Are you saying semen naturally cause histamine release.

a point in support of high histamine: histamine is key to  orgasm and can be behind premature ejaculation and alot of us have premajucation.  

I can orgasm five times straight and the sixth will still orgasm  very quick.

Because even a high histamine person adjusts their h3 auto receptor levels such that they remain alert but with a rush of histamine from an O and inadequate clearing of that histamine in the brain (perhaps caused by a HNMT mutation) the h3 feedback mechanism would move into slow the synthesis of other neurotransmitters and try to protect the body.

Some HNMT mutations are known but it's early days for their study. Here's a paper discussing 2 mutations and a possible connection to asthma. There's also a theorised connection to schizophrenia. http://www.csupharmacol.com/db/allpaper/117.pdf

Carl Pfeiffer would find it funny, I'm sure, to see that a medical community which scoffed at his treatments are now designing drugs that act on H3 receptors to treat ADHD and studying methylation gene mutations (HNMT, COMT etc.) and their affect on psychiatric illnesses.

Mast cell release of histamine does not require an allergy to seminal fluid.  It appears it's related to the actions in the tissue that permit an erection and the final orgasm.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7850330
For example, there are tests that show that when someone is given a h2 antagonist like Zantac, they cannot get an erection. Rantidine/Zantac has the side effect of libido loss and erectile dysfunction.  http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-h2-blockers.htm
But that's not a great solution either :)

If exogenous histamine is injected into their penile tissue of someone taking a h2 blocker like rantidine it binds to h2 receptors and supports the muscle contraction.  It's impossible to have an erection without raising histamine but there's less released during an erection then when someone has an O which releases seminal fluid.  Or that's my understanding of it at least.

Yes it's very unusual that you can have so many O's as to do that you need to be able to sustain a lot of erections. I had 6 in one day during my early 20s. The girl I was going out with that the time was a combination of impressed and shocked but it's not normal. Now, I believe it encouraged the promiscuous behaviour that I described earlier. With all that histamine flowing, the desire to have an O is intense and there were times I could think about little else.

If the high histamine theory is correct then POIS sufferers who are not on medication which reduce libido (SSRI's perhaps) would have a high libido and would find it very very difficult to stop having orgasms. Indeed, they'd be quick to become aroused which would make POIS even worse as they'd be more inclined to orgasm than most people.

Read this http://www.gilbertssyndrome.com/allergies.php from a person with gilbert syndrome and resulting high histamine and note that they experience some allergy symptoms upon orgasm. We are not the only people suffering allergy problems due to orgasms.

I also have an idea that this may explain why the original ZMA tests on athletes worked better than subsequent lab trials on increasing testosterone. The theory is that most athletes are undermethylators and have high histamine (but they must also have efficient histamine clearing AND steroidogenesis). The latter 2 explains why we're not all winning medals at the olympics :) ZMA contains methionine which when administered at night may help the body reduce histamine levels, reduce cortisol steal and increase testosterone (in tandem with b6 and zinc supplementation of course). So that's why I think the stuff works better on high histamine types than members of the normal population. It may be why JFerr's testosterone levels nearly doubled when taking the stuff.  I have no idea why they fell...

demografx

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2012, 10:11:15 AM »

 With every medication or injection there is a risk.


Risks with any treatment? True, but with POIS - desens, it's death. I do not see this potential danger for any other POIS treatment.

I use TRT for POIS for 3 years now. Successfully. But I feel it's responsible and necessary though to tell people that they might lose their sperm count and never have children.

Fertility risks and more are there for TRT - and with almost any treatment. But not the risk of death.

I would love to see longterm desensitization success!

But I would like to see some REAL  "science" that supports this desens "theory/hypothesis"

So it's up to the desens POIS patient to

1) understand the desensitization "theory"  ("theory" in quotes because there is none per normal medical standards - just like TRT, just like niacin - we are all working with such little understanding of POIS)

2) use an epi-pen. Especially for orgasm outside a hospital setting.

3) understand the dangers. There are two: death and new autoimmune probs.

4) can you wait till NORD starts research and see what the world's top physician-researchers discover about POIS?

But...I really understand   "No More POIS!"   thinking.

I was lucky with TRT! Daveman was lucky with niacin! That's where we all are, in my opinion.






« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 12:05:32 PM by demografx »
Usually have major POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks associated with it.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business.

poisioq

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2012, 01:26:13 PM »
If the high histamine theory is correct then POIS sufferers who are not on medication which reduce libido (SSRI's perhaps) would have a high libido and would find it very very difficult to stop having orgasms. Indeed, they'd be quick to become aroused which would make POIS even worse as they'd be more inclined to orgasm than most people.

I'm not on any medication but my libido  is very low. you already suggested it could be because of high prolactin (that actually was a bit high on my hormonal test results). So i'll keep it monitored.
But i want to ask you one think.
I'm getting convinced that i could be an histadelic person because i have many symptoms, except low libido and the fact that i'm not a high achiever (but i think POIS itself had a big influence on that).
anyways, i have been reading at some forums where people is sharing information about remedies etc...
many of them suggest a simple way to self test histadelia: it consists on taking 50mg of niacin, if you get a flush then it is a good indicator of histamine levels. as per those forum, the higher is the amount you need to get a flush,  the lower is the amount of histamine in the blood.
well, i actually can get a flush with only 50mg.
does it make sense for you?

kurtosis

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #41 on: November 04, 2012, 01:40:43 PM »
If the high histamine theory is correct then POIS sufferers who are not on medication which reduce libido (SSRI's perhaps) would have a high libido and would find it very very difficult to stop having orgasms. Indeed, they'd be quick to become aroused which would make POIS even worse as they'd be more inclined to orgasm than most people.

I'm not on any medication but my libido  is very low. you already suggested it could be because of high prolactin (that actually was a bit high on my hormonal test results). So i'll keep it monitored.
But i want to ask you one think.
I'm getting convinced that i could be an histadelic person because i have many symptoms, except low libido and the fact that i'm not a high achiever (but i think POIS itself had a big influence on that).
anyways, i have been reading at some forums where people is sharing information about remedies etc...
many of them suggest a simple way to self test histadelia: it consists on taking 50mg of niacin, if you get a flush then it is a good indicator of histamine levels. as per those forum, the higher is the amount you need to get a flush,  the lower is the amount of histamine in the blood.
well, i actually can get a flush with only 50mg.
does it make sense for you?
That's interesting.

Yes, it does make sense. 50mg to get a flush is low. Of course, when people take it for a while, then their tolerance increases. In a way, there may be some desens going on there also :)
One thing that also reduces libido is depression. Did you always have a low libido and what does that mean to you? Do you feel disinclined to have sex or O's because of POIS or just because of disinterest? It's complicated.
I wonder if Demografx, for instance, always felt symptoms of hypogonadism or if that's something that just happened BECAUSE of POIS. Immunological problems can reduce testosterone levels.

demografx

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2012, 01:56:33 PM »
While I think it's important to ensure that people considering desensitization are fully aware of the risks (and this is ESPECIALLY TRUE with SLIT and other procedures not administered under the supervision of a physician) this post shades heavily into fearmongering and putting people off of the only real technique that we've seen sustained success from. It, in many cases, OVERSTATES the risk of professionally administered desens, and in some implies risks that there's little or no scientific support for. There are a number of us who have benefitted from desens and have shared our experiences on this board. Are our experiences (and the 50% reduction in my symptoms) "fiction" daveman?

How is this approach at all productive? What we should be doing is something that you and Demo are usually quite keen to do (but have refrained from doing in this case -- instead substituting your expert medical opinions): encourage people to have frank discussions with their doctors regarding their treatment and the (real, rather than fabricated and sensationalistic) risks associated with it.

Egordon, many thanks for your well thought out commentary!

As a moderator, I strive to look for overall balance on any topic.

I also feel protective of new, possibly medically naive members, and also of the silent readers.

I think we have uncovered more pros and cons than ever before. With this thread. Without ad hominem arguments. And if Daveman and I introduced any negativity, it was intended to balance some of the current experiments with "expert medical opinion" as you described me and Daveman. No, we don't think of ourselves in any way, shape, or form as... medical experts as you state. But, as Daveman wrote, our information also comes from well-informed immunologists and other medical professionals. As yours does I'm sure.

I am not concerned about highly qualified physicians performing these procedures. But, as you know that is not always the case! My feeling is that the forum has a responsibility to  arm every "seeker of a POIS cure" with, not fearmongering, as you suggest that Daveman and I do, but medical facts as much as successful experiments.

Please take a look at the whole forum's activity on desensitization. Our few comments hardly overwhelm the desensitization community in terms of FAIR AND ACCURATE coverage.

We all want the same thing. In my opinion.



« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 02:28:15 PM by demografx »
Usually have major POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks associated with it.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business.

kurtosis

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2012, 02:07:08 PM »
Regarding the whole "high achiever" thing. It's not that straightforward. The histadelic person would generally have a family where there are high achievers and feel a desire to achieve themselves. The point is that you would feel you should be achieving or being more successful rather than accepting POIS.
That's really important. There are people here who are relatively high achievers (by most standards) yet they still want to achieve more. That's interesting and suggests there's an aspect of the POIS personality type. The desire to do better and the understanding that things are wrong.

A normal or low histamine person may not give a crap that their cognitive abilities are so variable. That's an interesting thing to note.

Daveman

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Re: Desensitization, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2012, 04:30:38 PM »
If the high histamine theory is correct then POIS sufferers who are not on medication which reduce libido (SSRI's perhaps) would have a high libido and would find it very very difficult to stop having orgasms. Indeed, they'd be quick to become aroused which would make POIS even worse as they'd be more inclined to orgasm than most people.

I'm not on any medication but my libido  is very low. you already suggested it could be because of high prolactin (that actually was a bit high on my hormonal test results). So i'll keep it monitored.
But i want to ask you one think.
I'm getting convinced that i could be an histadelic person because i have many symptoms, except low libido and the fact that i'm not a high achiever (but i think POIS itself had a big influence on that).
anyways, i have been reading at some forums where people is sharing information about remedies etc...
many of them suggest a simple way to self test histadelia: it consists on taking 50mg of niacin, if you get a flush then it is a good indicator of histamine levels. as per those forum, the higher is the amount you need to get a flush,  the lower is the amount of histamine in the blood.
well, i actually can get a flush with only 50mg.
does it make sense for you?
That's interesting.

Yes, it does make sense. 50mg to get a flush is low. Of course, when people take it for a while, then their tolerance increases. In a way, there may be some desens going on there also :)
One thing that also reduces libido is depression. Did you always have a low libido and what does that mean to you? Do you feel disinclined to have sex or O's because of POIS or just because of disinterest? It's complicated.
I wonder if Demografx, for instance, always felt symptoms of hypogonadism or if that's something that just happened BECAUSE of POIS. Immunological problems can reduce testosterone levels.

I think you have to consider the stomach first. What I mean is, In the morning after all night without eating and just waking up I can get a flush with 50. But even 4 hrs after a good barbeque and beer, I barely get a flush, if at all, with 400mg.

That has something to do with the liver I think doesn't it? I don't think histamine levels are involved there. At least, if you want to test for histamine, I imagine you would have to neutralize other factors and test at times that are most reflective of histamine condition.

WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!