Any easy to find supplements or medications that are IDO and TDO inhibitors ?

[Nas]

I would still like to know your opinion on Doxepin, and why exactly they can work. And the New ALA founding, how can it be connected to ejaculation ?

[Quantum]

Member Doxepine had reported an empirical success with doxepin, and I am happy he has found something effective for himself.  But as I have already said, I do think there is more than just one POIS type, hence my POIS Types Chart, because no single one treatment is efficient for every POISers.  If you think it might help, you can discuss about it with your health professional.  On the question as to why doxepin is helping someone with POIS, it is hard to say because doxepin is acting on many receptors and transporters - see in the chart at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricyclic_antidepressant#Binding_profiles .  You will see that it affects many serotoninergic receptors, H1 receptors, dopaminergic transporters, and so on.  What exaclty in that is helping POIS  ?  I don't know.

About ANA, I think it is in the line of what I think POIS is:  a systemic auto-immune reaction.  ANA is a non-specific marker for many auto-immune disorders.  It is more an effect than a cause.  The treatment will have to aim much more upstream in the chain reaction.  The link with ejaculation ?  Well, obviously, ejaculation is at the top of the chain reaction leading to a full biown POIS attack.  If the auto-immune hypothesis is correct, many other auto-immune and inflammatory markers should be found to be elevated in POIS, like C reactive protein, pro-inflammatory interleukins, like maybe IL-1 and IL-6, or TNF-alpha, or others.   ANA would be one among others, and maybe not in all POIS sufferers, if there is indeed different types of POIS.  But it is too soon to draw any conclusions at this time.

[Nas]

Hello Quantum,
I had a rendom question I was a bit curious about, do people in this forum who suffer from POIS are also associated with low testosterone signs like weak beard hair growth, body growth, etc.. ?
I'd be curious to see if there is any association. 

[Quantum]

Hi Nas,

No clear trend vs Testosterone.  Many have been tested normal in blood tests, but there are a few cases were T was low.  There is at least one case ( Demo) where TRT has brought relief to POIS symptoms.

There have been some threads about this, like this one:  http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=335.msg16153#msg16153

It never brought any significant conclusions.  In the few POIS studies, there were no relation made between testosterone levels and POIS.

Personally, I have to shave every day, am very hairy , and I have no testosterone issues.

Shaving has more to do with darkness/color of the hair than T levels, though, I think.  Blond guys do not have to shave a lot, brown and black haired guy have to shave more often.

In my POIS types chart, I have of course included a "Testosterone type POIS", but it is one of many "types", not everybody'scase - see http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2338.0 .  I still think that there are more than one "metabolic problem" that can lead to POIS in those that are prone to develop this rare disorder.  The fact that a given product bring relief to some and not to others, and this repeat every time with any relief method, tend to show that more than one pathway can lead to POIS.

[Nas]

For me I'm not that quiet of a muscular person, I'm 19 and my beard is still not fully grown, a bit of high pitched voice, not so much hair on my body in general, quiet skinny and a short penis. And when I looked at the FB page POISers' profile pics, no one looked that muscular to me. So I might thought that there could be some correlation btween low testosterone and POIS even though I'm not quiet sure how.

[Scary sheep]

For me I'm not that quiet of a muscular person, I'm 19 and my beard is still not fully grown, a bit of high pitched voice, not so much hair on my body in general, quiet skinny and a short penis. And when I looked at the FB page POISers' profile pics, no one looked that muscular to me. So I might thought that there could be some correlation btween low testosterone and POIS even though I'm not quiet sure how.

I'm gonna chime in and say that I'm unusually muscular considering that I rarely exercise or work out. I've always been relatively built, though I'm sure there's some genetic aspect to it.

[Nas]

Hey, Quantum.
So lately I've be thinking about the possibility of Testosterone being the reason for Auto-immune attacks against the semen, but the thing is that the only known method to increase Testosterone is by TRT, and TRT is known for its bad effects on the heart and you saw what happened to Demo. So I was thinking, is there any way that we can increase testosterone with out using the TRT method ? where it's effective enough against POIS but doesn't carry heavy side effects ?

[Quantum]

Hi Nas,

There are many things that can be done to help optimize your testosterone level.  This has been looked into a lot, especially by the fitness community.  If you make a critical review of many medical and fitness websites, you wiil find the following consensus:

- maintaining appropriate level of vitamin D  ( 1000ui of Vitamin D a day is a safe dose and appropriate dose).  The form usable by humans is vitamin D3

- maintaining appropriate levels of zinc   ( zinc supplements often causes nausea, my favorite source of zinc is, by far, pumpkin seeds and sesame seeds - and they make a great snack  - and organic, for sure, whenever possible )

- losing excess weight

- intensity and strength exercises  ( it is the "use it or lose it" principle)

- avoiding all refined sugars  ( a good thing in itself, it is no good for anything, healthwise)

- eat healthy fats, that are used as building blocks for testosterone  ( olive oil, coconut oil, avocados,...) and avoid bad fats.

These are scientific based recommendations, and ways to optimize your own testosterone production.  For example, it is known that hypogonadism can be caused by a zinc depletion.  If you make sure you have enough zinc, you support your testosterone production.

(For a sample of website with a list of such recommendations, see http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2012/07/27/increase-testosterone-levels.aspx .  )


On the supplement side, some members report relief with a herb called tongkat ali  ( go to forum homepage and put "tongkat ali" in the upper left search box). I don't know much about this one, but good results have been mentioned, especially if combined with zinc.


On the prescription only side, clomiphene ( Clomid) is an alternative to TRT.  Less side effects, but it is quite hard on the liver, and if you read my latest post on liver detoxification, you will know that any med toxic for the liver is not optimal for anyone, and surely not for someone with POIS  ( see at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2431.msg20521#msg20521 about liver detoxification)   .  Note that clomiphene is known for treatment of infertility, but chances are your general practitioner may not know about it boosting testosterone levels.  On the long run, you have to decide which one between TRT and clomiphene would be a "lesser bad".  After all, that's why prescription only drugs are prescription only, don't they?

Raising the immune tolerance, as testosterone does, to whatever antigen we have in either the prostate or seminal glands or bulbourethral glands, is what I think is effective in TRT for POIS.  So raising T should help.  It's not the only issue in POIS, but one way to attack this multi-headed beast.

[Nas]

Hi Quantum,
So I have an update, I just recieved my testosterone booster pack which involves many of the known testosterone boosting hrebs and supplements.
This is the link of the prodict : https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01D0GQ284/ref=mp_s_a_1_5_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1491515030&sr=8-5&keywords=testosterone+boosters
The pack recomened that I take 3 vegitable capsuls on breakfast and/or on lunch. I wonder if 3 capsuls is too much or not though.
Until now I'm not seeing any improvments on a cognitive base but I did start noticing a little bit of a twinge in my urethra/balls, that comes and goes infrequently. On energy base I didn't feel any improvments at all.
The testosterone is not expected to work from the first day, it will probably take about two weeks to show any effect but if the twinge contnued to show up or increased I might consider lowering the dose.
Any of these herbs you're using in your pack ? Do you think these suplements have any other effects on POIS that is outside of testosterone ?

[Quantum]

Hi Nas,

I know of all these ingredients, but do not use any of these.  First, because they boost libido, and on the long run, it has been way better for me to lower my ejaculation frequency, and I already have enough of managing the libido I already have without adding to it.   Second, those ingredients tend to be stimulating, on the adrenergic side.  I do not respond very well to adrenergic stimulation, it makes me restless and more prone to anxiety.   Ginseng have this effect on me, as well as stimulants like caffeine.

There are 9 ingredients in the formula, so it will be hard to know which one does what for you.  You will have to evaluate the overall effect of it.   

If it is good for stamina, so be it for you.  If the higher free testosterone level is helpful, by lowering auto-immunity to semen and what's in it, great.   Only thing to watch is libido put in overdrive, so you ejaculate more often, and the cumulative POIS symptoms negate the benefits from this preparation.

Let us know in a few weeks about the results you get, Nas!

[Nas]

Hi Quantum,
So it has been a week since I started with the T boost pack. On of the things that I have noticed is that you were correct about the anxiety thing, this pack definitely doesn't help with anxiety and depression matter fact it makes it worst. I struggled with the pack in the start of the day and my thoughts got more blurry instead of getting better. That's why I decided that I'm going to take only one pill before sleep so I won't suffer from anxiety and depression for the rest of the day. The pack says that I should take three pills every day so I don't know if that made it less effective or not.
Any ways, just had an O and I can tell that it didn't work, same symptoms and no noticeable difference. I'll keep you updated for the next month about the progress but if it didn't work I think I'll stop the usage.

[Quantum]

Hi Nas,

It is a good idea to reduce the dosage.  Go slowly, and see what it can do for you.  Keep us updated.


If it turns out in a month or so that this preparation is not useful for you, I suggest, for your future trials, to avoid multiple ingredients preparations.  Better try one single ingredients at a time, keep it if it is helping, and from there, search from something else to add, in order to raise the level of relief.  So, anything that gives you as low as 5% relief is worth keeping, and than search for another useful addition.  With time, you'll end up with a custom-made pack.  Anyway, that's how I do it for myself.  The problem I had with multiple preparations is, if it gives me side effects, I don't know what ingredients in it I am intolerant to, and that is not helping for the gathering of useful data for my POIS symptoms relief.

[Nas]

Yes, I do agree Quantum. But the issue for me is mostly logistic, multiple ingerdiants pack is more affordable and easier to get from the internet than just buying multilpe ingrediants all together. Plus my family is not ok with me just swallowing pills that they don't know of, so I usually take these pills in secret.

[Quantum]

I understand your challenges, Nas.  Do the best, then considering your situation.  It may then take more time to find what will help you get some relief, but eventually, I am sure you will.   

[Nas]

Hello Quantum,
Long time no talk. So for me, I just gave up on trying anything to be honest, nothing seems to work at all. But I'm trying to no give up and try new things. So at the past I read a comment you mentioned that POIS could possibly be the result of multiple inflammatory diseases piling up at once especially when it comes to the Gut. And I wondered, I always had an issue of an inflamed urethra and a little bit of leaky gut, I even have a little bit of an inflammation in the anus area which I don't know why probably also POIS related. I've seen alot of comments from POISers who suffer from these same issues and I wondered, if they were the result of POIS or that POIS is causing them. You wonder if I would treat these issues like the leaky gut and inflamed urethra it would help with POIS ? I can see that maybe I caught a disease in the guts when I used to masturbate alot in my teen years with a relatively poor hygiene sometimes  ?

[Quantum]

Hello Nas,

Yes, other POIS sufferers have reported inflammation in urethra, in anal region, and also pain/inflammation in the prostate region.

I sure think that if you find something to treat these inflammation problem, it will help reduce severity and duraiton of POIS.  Just like those who get on an healthier diet, and take probiotics, thus reducing leaky gut/SIBO/intestinal inflammation or specific problems like coeliac disease, and see an improvement in their POIS.

[Nas]

I'm not sure enough though. Because these symptoms could actually be the resault of POIS just like other symptoms.

[Quantum]

How long do these symptoms last ?  Are they present even if no release for over 2 weeks, for example ?


It can be both, too - they cause and amplify POIS, and they are caused and amplified by POIS.  For example, inflamation of the urethra can make it more permeable to leak the possible antigen in the semen  ( an inflamed mucose is more permeable).   Then POIS make it more inflamed still, and the cycle goes on.  It can be call a vicious circle, truly.

[Nas]

I don't recall a huge improvment with 2 weeks but I think it does improve. The thing it is rare for me to stay 2 weeks and beyond mainly because of wet dreams - I almost had one this morning but was able to wake up and stop it and was only like 4 days only after orgasm.