Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (P.O.I.S.)
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: My cure for POIS, OR: Why I had it completely backwards.  ( 22209 )
Daveman
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« #15 : October 06, 2011, 03:53:36 PM »

Let's hope he didn't have POIS Starsky, and has found his peace.

WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!
Egordon
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« #16 : October 08, 2011, 01:15:52 PM »

Cornelius,

Congrats man! Whether or not you ever had POIS -- and I think you probably DID and still DO -- it's great that you've finally gotten some of your symptoms under control and are seeing improvements in your life. I, though, absolutely know that I have POIS. Sure, I have trouble concentrating sometimes. But those times are almost exclusively only immediately after orgasm. In fact, since discovering Niacin and ceasing to masturbate I feel like a completely different person -- and people have noticed. Everything in my life is better! I'm able to date more often, i'm doing well in grad school, and have far more friends than ever before. So I have no question that my problems are related to physiological -- not psychological -- problems related to orgasm.

But Cornelius does perhaps raise a good point. Because of how little we know about this constellation of symptoms, it's wise to have your doctor consider all of the possibilities of different disorders that exist out there. You may have POIS AND something else. Or you may just have something else. As helpful as this community is, experimentation and openness to other ideas is pretty important since we know so little about this disorder, so don't be hesitant to consult actual doctors -- no matter how sure you are that you just have POIS.

POIS since I was about 15. 1.75 years of desens and I'm now about 80% POIS free. Still working through best practices for maintaining my immunity and administering my injections with my doctor. Email me if you have tips or questions!
B_Daniel
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« #17 : October 30, 2011, 10:54:45 PM »

Cornelius, Congratulations on your relief.  Please keep us updated.   

I believe we have a hormone and neurotransmitter imbalance.
cornelius
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« #18 : November 07, 2011, 09:38:45 AM »

So I'm still doing very well, have been busy at work, so here is my one-month follow-up.

No changes - I can ejaculate / orgasm frequently without the associated loss in concentration that I had been suffering from. I am nearing the fully-effective date of Strattera, a non-stimulant drug for treating ADHD, and have found my ability to focus on tasks significantly improved over the past 5 weeks as it ramped up.

Again, it's not that POIS as I understood it doesn't exist. I still went through all of that suffering, and it seemed to be triggered by orgasm...  but we have never managed to prove anything beyond that.
Fact: There are many people who report that they experience physical and mental suffering shortly after ejaculation/orgasm.

Another fact is that a dry orgasm doesn´t give you any symptoms. And that the leak of pre-seminal fluid give us this symptoms in a mild way.

By dry, do you mean arousal without ejaculation? It gave me reduced symptoms.

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Do you remember the first time that you feel sick, confused, with brain fog after having an orgasm? Your first POIS episode?
I don´t.
I don't - I was so confused about the whole affair that it's hard for me to put a finger on it. I would estimate that it began in my early teens, but subjectively "got worse" about 4 years ago. I now believe that this was an inaccurate set of observations, and that my inattention "got worse" because the work I was trying to do became harder to "cram" into the brief bursts of attention that I could give them.

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Anyway, i know that this hell began at the age of 18 years. I was deppressed due to i was rejected, and this feeling expanded in the time for some months. I recall feeling with brain-fog, cognitive problems, social anxiety, repetitive and negative thoughts etc. I could remember feeling worse after an Orgasm, but not exactly the first time that i feel like this POIS. I recall leaving behind this social anxiety and overcoming the negative feelings of personal rejection. I remember feeling better *my mind**my body*, and then falling in a cycle of hard brain fog, cognitive problems after every orgasm. I made the connection over the months; at the first time i thought it was an overwhelming feeling of guilt after masturbating, then i stopped masturbating. But then i had the NE, and the problem of POIS surfaced again. It was more difficult to not masturbate while in POIS due to the excitation was the only thing that could distract me from my tortured mind of POIS.

This mirrors my experience quite well in every regard.

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The years passed until i discovered that something called POIS exists. This has changed my life. I am not experiencing brain fog anymore due to the niacin, social anxiety has dissappeared, negative thoughts have stopped, and i´m growing confident in every aspect of my life. The battle to fight against POIS has made me to contact some proffesionals in the health world to discover why i suffer this. I´m not anxious anymore to have an orgasm, but if ejaculate when the flush hasn´t dissappeared(or too soon)  i would feel sick-- i have done that---.
I would get that horrible wave spreading on every corner of my body and mind. The same wave that hit my mind and made me recognize that if i was plenty and perfect, this was going to change and the brain fog will appear with intensity in minutes and will last several days. Not anymore.

Yes, this forum was very useful for me as well. What I believe was inaccurate about my self-observation was that when "out of POIS", I was functioning well - I now believe that I was functioning better (much better) , but not as well as a medicated, un-stressed and un-depressed ADDer can be. The fact was, that when abstaining, I was incredibly tense and wound-up (abstention is hard!) - and this tension would help me focus more, and banish the ADD-distractibility.

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But i would not stop searching the truth. Maybe you have finally find your truth--- Then, congratulations, but i can´t believe that your case is my case. I have a very good friend with Asperger, and i have always recognized the moments when he shows his problem in social situations. I don´t have aspergers and i can say this with 100% certainty, so i think that my search is going to continue. Thanks for sharing your experience with us cornelius :)
All I can say is that it is working for me, and to give it my strongest possible recommendation that others consider suggesting the "ADD / depression / stress -> de-stress with ejaculation cycle" to their medical team.


Thank you Observer for understanding Cornelius's situation, and also expressing well, how we are certain too, that POIS is real.
Perhaps what I failed to communicate through sheer enthusiasm was that I don't at all disbelieve in the Ejaculation => Mental Confusion / Physical Ailments correlation that led us to form this group and call the observed symptoms POIS. I just have another possible causation chain which fits the data just about as well as any other explanation.

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I understand Cornelius, who probably has been very hampered by his ADD and other cognitive, perhaps depression related in their own right. I have seen a number of us who probably have depressive tendancies as a parallel condition and or axagerated by POIS. I know the situation is VERY complex, and we resist psychological help becasue they don't want to recognize POIS.
But we have said before. Treatments for symptoms CAN help, and should be pursued. But DON'T expect that the treatment will cure you. ONLY a cure for POIS will cure us.
Again, POIS is a set of symptoms, not anything causative. Waldinger's papers for instance, treat POIS as being caused by an allergic reaction ; the 'cure' is a cure for allergic reactions, not for POIS.

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I think niacin has given us a very big clue.
Towards what? The observed symptom alleviation could come from many different effects. It doesn't help us understand what has caused the symptoms to manifest.  

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Although we have niacin, and one or two who find great relief with some treatment or other we still MUST pursue the research grant. It's the only thing that will clear the doubt. Perhaps, as Cornelius says, we may ALL be chasing rainbows.

Man I wish that could change!!
Not rainbows -- just depression. I was so set against the idea that I was depressed, that I ignored the full reach of the physical and mental effects that depression can have. I believe that I was effectively "running on empty" all of those years, and that ejaculation acted as the last straw, and caused my mental 'collapses' into fugue, memory loss and fatigue.

Unfortunately sex is one of those things that is so powerful and intertwined with the mind that problems like the one you're describing (thought you had POIS, but probably not) I think are totally possible.  
Based on the descriptions collected here, I have (had?) classic mental POIS. I fit any set of criteria that we have been able to assemble. Take a read through my post history, and my case is just as POIS-ish as any other. (feel free to quote me if you disagree, and I'll comment on it).

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Please keep us updated on your progress as you are a valuable contributor to this community and I want to hear how this goes over time.  I agree with you that what may be the case for you does not make it the case for others and that's what's so frustrating about this condition.  For example, I don't feel threatened if for you it turns out to be psychosomatic.  If that's the case it would be helpful to know.  Best of luck.

Yeah, mostly psychosomatic from acute depression (which I was unaware of, and would have told you "I'm not depressed") is my current working understanding. I don't feel depressed now, and most of the symptoms have vanished.

im sorry to say but, pois suffers are very likely to get diagnosed with ADD i also bet it is the inattentive kind. i also got diagnosed with ADD . and other shit where they try explain and cover up they symptoms of pois.
Not to beat a dead horse, but if you are likely to get diagnosed with ADD, then perhaps you are likely to benefit from treatment for ADD. That's the purpose of scientific diagnoses. :P
Just make sure that you get a proper test (such as the extended version of the one I linked to), and a competent doctor (who specialises in it or a similar area).

Taking University courses specifically in critical thinking.. this whole post makes me feel really uneasy.
Excellent! Please take another look at my OP, and tell me what hard evidence we have that disproves my causation chain compared to any other that has been proposed on the forum / the literature or elsewhere. In particular, note that the Compendium says that "most sufferers who improve do so with improved lifestyle, exercise and diet", and that this would indicate an escape from depression.

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Number one, I cant take anecdotal experiences, it may work for you but that does not mean it will be the case for all pois sufferers. It might be interesting to look into but with the symptoms we have it would be a very hard case to prove in cornelius's favour.
Also, many of us here like said above have a combination of ADD + POIS which would make us automatically subjected to an "a.d.d. test"
Again, these tests exist to diagnose people who meet certain criteria. If you meet those criteria, it is likely that you should pursue treatment.

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This seems very skeptical and im sorry if i sound like an ass, but i like when research has been presented orderly and scientific. Maybe we can look into this? but as it stands very very skeptical
Unfortunately, this doesn't exist. Even Waldinger's work is missing a double-blind trial, and his hypo-sensitisation work has too small a sample size to be provable.
Actually, the POIS symptoms as a 'last straw' collapse from depression is a theory which would meet with much greater scientific and medical approval. All I'm suggesting is that maybe that is not because doctors are lazy / don't listen etc., maybe it is because they are more used to seeing the terrible effects of depression than we are, and that they are able to take an outside perspective on our condition that we are not able to.

Over so many years we had so many "cured" that i doubt that Cornelius really had POIS.
Unless your definition of POIS is "impossible to cure", then I challenge you to differentiate my case from any other. Please read through my posts, and quote me if you disagree. I have been pretty open about my condition and treatment attempts here.


Congrats man! Whether or not you ever had POIS -- and I think you probably DID and still DO -- it's great that you've finally gotten some of your symptoms under control and are seeing improvements in your life. I, though, absolutely know that I have POIS. Sure, I have trouble concentrating sometimes.
Cheers- thanks for keeping an open mind :)

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But those times are almost exclusively only immediately after orgasm. In fact, since discovering Niacin and ceasing to masturbate I feel like a completely different person -- and people have noticed. Everything in my life is better! I'm able to date more often, i'm doing well in grad school, and have far more friends than ever before. So I have no question that my problems are related to physiological -- not psychological -- problems related to orgasm.
This is exactly what I would have said about myself 6 months ago, but I now don't believe that it was accurate about myself. I think that I was happier, felt better and was more capable in comparison, but I was also engaged in a secret war with my own sexual desires, and was constantly tense and on edge about getting over-aroused.
Perhaps the best way to assess mental function would be to undergo Neuropsychological testing on your "best possible day", and see how you fare. I was going to try this for a number of days through the POIS cycle when I had my breakthrough - as far as I can see, it would be the only way to accurately(??) measure the differences.

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But Cornelius does perhaps raise a good point. Because of how little we know about this constellation of symptoms, it's wise to have your doctor consider all of the possibilities of different disorders that exist out there. You may have POIS AND something else.
Spot on, but I think that a better way of describing it is "I suffered from mental exhaustion (and other symptoms) for days following ejaculation". I don't know what I 'have' that causes this, but it happens every time I ejaculate or become sufficiently aroused.

« : November 07, 2011, 09:45:07 AM cornelius »

"I was extremely depressed for years, and started getting some really bad symptoms from being depressed. I was running low - near empty - the whole time, and ejaculation pushed me from "near empty" over the edge into total collapse for a few days to a week." See my Cure thread
cornelius
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« #19 : November 25, 2011, 08:59:04 AM »

Just back from a POIS-free holiday, to celebrate.

All is still well. :)

"I was extremely depressed for years, and started getting some really bad symptoms from being depressed. I was running low - near empty - the whole time, and ejaculation pushed me from "near empty" over the edge into total collapse for a few days to a week." See my Cure thread
Daveman
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« #20 : November 25, 2011, 10:35:54 AM »

I'm happy for you Cornelius. I too am having great success with niacin, there is nothing like feeling normal again after sex. And my case was likely not half as bad as yours.

I'm sure there are some here among us like yourself where depression or ADD play a greater part in the imbalance in their reproductive cycle than anything else.


WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!
cornelius
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« #21 : November 25, 2011, 11:54:12 AM »

I'm happy for you Cornelius. I too am having great success with niacin, there is nothing like feeling normal again after sex. And my case was likely not half as bad as yours.
Who knows - it's a very personal experience, and so varied among the people who report here.

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I'm sure there are some here among us like yourself where depression or ADD play a greater part in the imbalance in their reproductive cycle than anything else.
I've gotten a little bit better at describing my understanding of how I "lost" the last few years - and it basically sums up to "I was extremely depressed, and started getting some really bad symptoms from being depressed. I was running low - near empty - the whole time, and ejaculation pushed me from "near empty" over the edge into total collapse for a few days to a week."

It's entirely possible that the ADD-effects were caused by the depression, I'm due a 3-month check-up shortly, and we shall see.

"I was extremely depressed for years, and started getting some really bad symptoms from being depressed. I was running low - near empty - the whole time, and ejaculation pushed me from "near empty" over the edge into total collapse for a few days to a week." See my Cure thread
cornelius
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« #22 : November 25, 2011, 06:47:09 PM »

I got a PM asking me about my experience with Strattera. Here is my response.

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I can't really say that Strattera "cured my POIS" - I believe that most of what I described as POIS was in fact a worsening of the symptoms that I was experiencing from depression following orgasm. Among these was an inability to focus or to complete tasks, which was diagnosed as secondary ADD by Prof. Michael Fitzgerald http://www.professormichaelfitzgerald.eu/ , who was recommended to me by my therapist as the expert in Aspergers/ADD in Ireland.

"Secondary" effectively means "not born with it, may have another cause", and so it remains an open question as to whether the mental confusion was something that I will have to live with, or if it will go away as my depression lightens. To deal with it in the present, Prof. Fitzgerald prescribed me 80mg Strattera / day, which I ramped up to over two months. I have been on the full dose for about one month now. My focus has definitely improved, and I can now complete tasks without losing track of what I am doing, and hold more than one thing in my mind while doing something else. It is non-stimulant, which means that it is likely to be less habit-forming than Ritalin/Adderall, and there is a noticeable decrease in my level of function on days that I do not take it straight out of bed. Thus, I think that it is working.

However, I do not feel that I would have 'escaped' the POIS without the therapy that formed the key to fighting off my depression. I feel that if I had been prescribed Strattera on its own, without the therapy, I fear that I would have been able to perform tasks better at work, but would have still been suffering from the crippling depression - and all the other side effects we call POIS. It might have actually worked out worse for me, as I would have been able to continue in work for longer, getting more and more desperate. Instead, I dropped out of work sick, and managed to work through some long-standing problems with my life. I no longer suffer from sexual activity, but that has nothing to do with the Strattera - it came after months of therapy. The Strattera still helps me on a daily basis, but my mind no longer comes and goes with sex.

So it's not a wonder cure, but it definitely has helped me day-to-day.

My GP and Psychiatrist did not feel qualified to continue to prescribe it to me - there are about 3 people here who specialise in ADD/Autism/Aspergers, and I must go to one of them to get monitoring / repeat prescriptions. Treatment of ADD in adults is rare, but most people who usually see children will probably agree to see you. The ASRS, linked in my post is the actual clinical test used by doctors. If you score highly, it's probably a good idea to see a specialist.
http://www.adders.org/who%20addult%20adhdscreen.pdf
Here's another link that I found pretty useful:
http://www.adders.org/info7.htm

I'm going to post this response in my thread, in case it is useful to others.

"I was extremely depressed for years, and started getting some really bad symptoms from being depressed. I was running low - near empty - the whole time, and ejaculation pushed me from "near empty" over the edge into total collapse for a few days to a week." See my Cure thread
hurray
Lab1
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« #23 : November 27, 2011, 05:18:39 AM »



Wow, what a well-written and insightful account of your latest breakthrough, cornelius! Congratulations on your successes so far - obviously I'd like to know whether your success will be long-term or not. You've made a brave post, and nobody is going to think any less of you if you let us know that POIS is beginning to creep back into your life - although hopefully it won't  :) It is pretty common for people to build up a tolerance to SSRIs - but let's not think negatively!

I've been well aware for several years that I suffer from clinical depression, but I deliberately avoided the formal diagnosis because I was still able on occasion to do reasonably outstanding things (write good songs, articles etc) and didn't want to mess up my brain with "happy drugs". After I began taking Zoloft I was able to function far better in social situations during time periods when I should have had severe POIS. Moving to a sunny climate also helped considerably.

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I think that my problems with cognition -- my ADD -- was always present. I think that as I restrained myself from sexual activity, that I became more and more stressed. That stress enabled me to push past and control the ADD for long enough to get some things done. That I have always wielded my stress in order to marshal my concentration.
Very interesting indeed. I have often felt exactly the same way about how I am able to function extremely well on occasion - I can do huge amounts of high quality work over a few days especially when a deadline is involved, but I can never sustain that intensity.

I may not agree with your final conclusion (that you don’t have POIS), but the new perspective that you put on your malady is fascinating. Regarding the symptoms that you used to consider to be POIS, what degree would you say these have disappeared to as a result of your efforts? Demo often quotes that he is 80% POIS-free now, for example.

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Ask yourself: is this a common list of symptoms of acute depression?
Over-sleeping, Agoraphobia, clouded thinking, poor short-term memory, irritability
Unless you haven't been reading the same things that I have, you'll have to concede that they are.

Clouded thinking isn’t the same as brain fog for me. I had depression years before my POIS symptoms appeared, and my thoughts were not affected by what most us of think as brain fog – they were just overwhelmingly negative. Also, I have physical symptoms to POIS (extremely dry hair that starts approximately 1 hour after O and continues for days afterwards, and aching joints).

Did you ever have physical symptoms or brain fog with “POIS”? If you had neither, than your conclusion that you never had POIS might well be right.

There’s a lot of other stuff I’d like to write but I’m not a fan of making long forum posts, not that’s there anything wrong with yours   :)
hurray
Lab1
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« #24 : November 27, 2011, 05:59:12 AM »

I tried your ADHD tests:

http://www.adders.org/who%20addult%20adhdscreen.pdf

scored 5/6 in the dark boxes for Part A

http://www.adders.org/info7.htm

I have at least 18/20 on this one. Crumbs. Maybe I need to see a doctor!
Habibou
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« #25 : November 28, 2011, 06:00:46 PM »

I tried your ADHD tests:

http://www.adders.org/who%20addult%20adhdscreen.pdf

scored 5/6 in the dark boxes for Part A

http://www.adders.org/info7.htm

I have at least 18/20 on this one. Crumbs. Maybe I need to see a doctor!

If I do the test too, I have very high score, even without POIS ! Perhaps, he found a good thing for "cognitive POIS", who knows !

Brain fog 90%  + tired all the time ,sport intolerance, fast heartbeat, colon inflammation
Daveman
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« #26 : November 28, 2011, 06:51:58 PM »

I'd say that if you have the high scores even well out of POIS, you should look at it. Although I think Habibou, that CFS might also give you a high score on ADHD even if you don't have ADHD.

Each disease makes it's symptoms, but the symptoms don't always make the Disease.

We have POIS everyone. If you think you have something else or could have something else in parallel go for it. Take the time out, re-think your strategy, follow the lead and we'll see you back here in a few months. If not, all the better for you.

As we've been trying to say. How many of us have non-stop looked for one cure after another. Maybe it;s this, maybe it's that.  I have symptoms of "God knows what" so I must have "God knows what". Ooops nope, I guess I didn't. Now I have symptoms that look like "Allah knows what", so I must have "Allah knows what", so lets try that cure... Ooops nope well now my symptoms seem like........ on and on and on.

When are we going to get off the freaken merry-go-round.

We need research!!! When will we see this. We spend far more trying God knows what than we do in the only thing that's going to finally solve this problem.


WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!
hurray
Lab1
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« #27 : November 29, 2011, 01:15:48 AM »

Research is hugely important, but it isn't something that happens quickly. We have had people on these forums attempting suicide, and many more for whom POIS is a large factor in their depression (or vice versa). If a small subset of people with POIS also suffer from depression, it is a link well worth discussing I think. If curing the depression cures the "POIS", then that is in itself a discovery.

If (as I suspect) there turns out to be different types of POIS (say POIS A, POIS B, POIS C), maybe cornelius had POIS C and has discovered the cure (eliminating depression through therapy and medication, controlling ADHD through medication). That frees us up to focus on POIS A and POIS B, making the discovery of some additional universal POIS symptoms more likely.

The fact that we have found so few POIS symptoms that applies to every case certainly suggests that there may be more than one variant of POIS at work here - of course it also suggests that some of us may have misdisgnosed ourselves with POIS.
Daveman
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« #28 : November 29, 2011, 07:50:26 AM »

I agree particularly with your last statement.

Perhaps I tend to worry myself too much in seeing yet another being redirected into a fruitless attempt to solve POIS and having to come back and start over. We've just seen it too many times. And especially when SSRI become involved, if those are not handled properly, and there are so many doctors willing to prescirbe them at the drop of a hat, one enters into a whole world which could involve, many times, fruitless psychological treatments with doctors that are only inerested in having a long term patient.

I just have to stop worrying about that.

I have also said often here that many times it is necesary to treat parallel illnesses first, get straightened around over all, and THEN get into POIS. But the problem is when we chase one thing, then another then another and we never seem to get off of the merry-go-round.

WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!
Daveman
Administrator
Hero Member
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: 1584



« #29 : November 29, 2011, 07:57:05 AM »

And I guess THAT's why I say that research is so important. To give us a real direction, a real definition so we can stop chasing our tail.

We can do what ever we want while the finding for research is in progress and the research finally comes through. But the problem is that once we distract ourselves from the main goal, getting the research, we put the research on the back burner HOPING that we will find something ourselves. We don't focus on the funding, and try to look for temp solutions meantime, we focus on temp soutions full time, and MAYBE think about funding meantime. If something we think that has promise comes along we dump the funding. So in the whole process, the funding takes second and third place when it should take first and second.

Aaargh!

WITHOUT RESEARCH THERE WILL BE NO CURE!
Sessions 5 to 9 days, mostly Flu-like, joints, digestion problems, light cognitive.
Niacin has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.
Somewhere in this interaction with Niacin is the answer!
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