Author Topic: POIS, heart and HRV  (Read 4395 times)

Macster

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Re: Pois, heart and HRV
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2016, 11:05:24 AM »
Hello,

I recently found apps that work with hrv monitors to track your hrv and to do some exercises (breathing I think) and track how the hrv changes. They seem to be mostly for athletes, here's an example:

http://www.bioforcehrv.com

I'm wondering if such things could be useful in trying to increase the vagal tone. Right now I am using a simple app on my phone that makes a sound to tell me to inhale and another sound to exhale. I get the impression that it is helping but it demands concentration and it might be a placebo effect.

What are your thoughts on such hrv apps/monitors? Are they useful or not so much in increasing vagal tone?
Symptoms since I'm 15 y o, hair loss, muscle twitches, brain fog, anxiety, low confidence, stuffy nose, itchy eyes and skin, sensitive to temperature change, loud heartbeat. I currently use 5-htp and SAM-e.

Quantum

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Re: Pois, heart and HRV
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2016, 01:48:33 PM »
Hello,

I recently found apps that work with hrv monitors to track your hrv and to do some exercises (breathing I think) and track how the hrv changes. They seem to be mostly for athletes, here's an example:

http://www.bioforcehrv.com

I'm wondering if such things could be useful in trying to increase the vagal tone. Right now I am using a simple app on my phone that makes a sound to tell me to inhale and another sound to exhale. I get the impression that it is helping but it demands concentration and it might be a placebo effect.

What are your thoughts on such hrv apps/monitors? Are they useful or not so much in increasing vagal tone?


Bonjour Macster,

I think it is more about balancing your autonomic system than about simply stimulating the vagus.  HeartMath Institute calls it "coherence".  You can check this video that b_jim has linked too, at http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x34d7v_coherence-cardiaque-2-demonstration_news - it's in French, but you will have obviously no problems with that :) .   I also share there more of my point of view about RSA /HRV monitors as a valuable biofeedback tool at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2179.msg17618#msg17618 .

More recently, I am in the process of understanding the Polyvagal Theory, used as a background for certain parts of the current POIS study by the Rutgers team.  In this theory, there is another added layer of complexity,  Instead of having to balance the sympathetic system with the parasympathetic/vagus, there are according to this theory 3 different responses:  the old parasympathetic response ( freezing), the sympathetic response ( fight-or-flight), and the "smart" parasympathetic response ( tend-and-befriend).   But it is clear the the latest, "smart" parasympathetic response correspond to the "coherence" or to the state called "being in the zone" in the fitness world, because they are both measured by HRV.    So, if your biofeedback monitor says you have a high HRV, then you are "in the zone", you are in s state of coherence, or you can also say that you are using the smart vagus response, and more simply, you feel good ...hahaha.... :) :) :)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2016, 01:56:11 PM by Quantum »
You are 100% responsible for what you do with anything I post on this forum and of any consequence it could have for you.  Forum rule: ""Do not use POISCenter as a substitute for, or to give, medical advice" Read the remaining part at http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=1.msg10259#msg10259

Macster

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Re: Pois, heart and HRV
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2016, 05:22:11 PM »
Merci pour la r?ponse Quantum,

So I guess it could be a good idea to invest a little in this type of HRV monitor? Do you recommend the heartMath ones? Also, are you seeing any benefit or gaining insight from using the monitor that you own?
Symptoms since I'm 15 y o, hair loss, muscle twitches, brain fog, anxiety, low confidence, stuffy nose, itchy eyes and skin, sensitive to temperature change, loud heartbeat. I currently use 5-htp and SAM-e.

BluesBrother

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Re: Pois, heart and HRV
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2016, 06:00:04 PM »
Merci pour la r?ponse Quantum,

So I guess it could be a good idea to invest a little in this type of HRV monitor? Do you recommend the heartMath ones? Also, are you seeing any benefit or gaining insight from using the monitor that you own?

I recently bought a second-hand heartMath device - the emWave2 - on eBay. The device measures heart rate (and thus HRV) using either a sensor on which you lay your thumb or using an ear clip. When trying the device, I noted that it kept measuring my heart rate even when I was not putting my finger on the device nor was I using the ear clip. I concluded that the device was broken, and sent it back. I believe that this was a problem with the specific device I had, still, it made me wonder about the accuracy of the sensors more generally. For HRV measurement it is very important that the sensors are accurate. For example, the heart rate sensors in fitness bands are not precise enough for measuring HRV. I suspect that using the emWave2 with one's thumb is not very accurate either. I don't know about the ear clip's accuracy - but I'd suspect that a breast strap would be the better option.

I will most likely buy a Polar H7 breast strap: http://www.amazon.com/Polar-Sensor-BLE-BLK-M-XXL/dp/B007S088F4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453676131&sr=8-1&keywords=Polar+USA

The breast strap costs 49$ on amazon and is thus much cheaper than the emWave2: http://www.amazon.com/emWave-6320-BL-Emwave2-Silver-Blue/dp/B004YHKUX2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453676200&sr=8-1&keywords=emwave2
which costs 199$.

The breast strap can connect to a smartphone via bluetooth (it is important to check compatibility). There are some apps for measuring HRV using a breast strap. I found this interesting: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.elitehrv.app&hl=en
It also seems to have biofeedback while breathing - hence quite similar to the emWave2. The breast strap is also the more versatile option, as it can be used to monitor ones heart rate over a longer time - as well as during training.

I will report my experiences once I have bought the breast strap and experimented with the app(s).
Used to have brain fog, flue-like symptoms, un-refreshing sleep, extreme exhaustion, muscle and joint pain, digestive problems, social anxiety, urge to urinate frequently.
Niacin and change of diet improved most symptoms. Exhaustion and physical weakness now main problem. 3-day POIS cycle.

demografx

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Re: Pois, heart and HRV
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2017, 05:27:13 PM »
Cross-posted from NORD Interim thread about HRV. Also discusses Polyvagal Theory




https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-neuroscience-of-heart/



In Stef's post -- http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=2086.45
-- she summarizes an early interim report, in which Dr Komisaruk discusses HRV (heart rate variability) and how it might relate to POIS.

This article seems to explain HRV in clear language.


« Last Edit: March 12, 2017, 03:16:04 PM by demografx »
Usually have major POIS-reduction, treatment consisting of daily (365 days/year) testosterone patches.

TRT must be checked out carefully with your doctor due to fertility, cardiac and other risks associated with it.

40+ years of severe 4-days-POIS, married, raised a family, started/ran a business.