Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (P.O.I.S.)

POIS Cause/Treatment Discussions => General Alternative Causes and Treatments of POIS => Topic started by: Daveman on July 06, 2011, 08:27:02 PM

Title: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on July 06, 2011, 08:27:02 PM
Xanthiol Nicotinate is a form of niacin (Vitamin B3) which is a vasodilator used in peripheral vascular disorders and insufficiency.  Also has been used (in pill form as niacin) to treat short-term memory disorders, lack of concentration, attention and vigilance (works possibly because it dilates constricted cerebral vessels).

So maybe it helps with symptoms of this condition if vasoconstriction occurs after sex. For whatever reason, it's also used by body builders.
** it should be taken with caution since in high doses may cause liver problems and severe hypotension.

...... but IM route is a dangerous route--very direct, bypasses stomach, therefore puting it more into the range similar to "high doses" above.

Anyone taking BP meds should use with caution due to the tendancy that would exist for exageration of the hypotension tendancy. Obviously anyone with liver problems would also have to use caution.


Xanthiol Nicotinate does seem to have some potential for at least reducing POIS symptoms.

In this topic we should discuss Xanthiol Nicotinate, it's pros and cons, it's legality, people's experience with it, etc. I would like to see if there is any information that can lead to more serious investigation as part of our ongoing research.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Animus on July 06, 2011, 11:04:46 PM
I am highly suspicious because:

This person is suddenly coming out of nowhere with no context suggesting this.
I have seen elaborate Russian scams before over the internet.
There is no explanation of why this works, and why it helps POIS.
The person who introduced it wants to sell it to us- this is the clearest indication of a scam.


Let's let the initial euphoria die down, and see if this has staying power. sorry to be skeptical!
thanks.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on July 07, 2011, 04:25:59 PM
I think we should forget about Dmitry (oh, as soon I wrote this name, I forgot it  ;D), and try to understand why it worked !
And if possible, get more information about the suffers who got "cured" with that.

The cognitive effect is proved. I talked about it with my doctor who told me :
-It was a real double(Xanthinol+Nicotinate) effect vasodilator.
-The nicotinate is found in cigarettes and really help to focus on things (one of the only benefit to smoke...never did that) since it helps more glucose and O2 coming into the brain cells.
-Never take a vasodilator if you get heart disorder/operation
-Intramuscular Injections are more efficient than the digestive way and reaches a maximum 100 minutes after injection (it is true what we heard so)


I think that IF XN works, then the POIS  is for a part :
 only an over cerebral vessels constriction which lasts from the O (arousal for some) until some time  (the POIS recovery).

It would mean that our brain takes a very long time to relax the constricted cerebral vessels. Thus, our brain gets less (perhaps a very small difference) O2 and glucose than before. With the time, the vessels get relaxed and we go back to the normal with O2 and glucose income

My theory would be for the "cognitive" symptoms :
brain fog/memory loss/ ability to focus       +         ears blowing/locked nose and throat/feeling the heartbeat in the brain (pressure due to constricted vessels), and so on...

I am 90% cognitive POIS, I had NO semen allergy , nor positive immune reaction tests due to the O. That is why I build up my own theory (based on the potential XN) which could fit into my case (cognitive) !
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on July 07, 2011, 05:50:09 PM
I wonder if there is any nicotine addiction?

Brain fog for those effected cognitively comes on after about 24 hrs (more strongly) and lasts for several days, in some weeks? I don't imagine that the cereberal vessels are contricted all that time, or if they are, it would be as a result of some external influence like inflamation, meaning infection, allergy or auto-immune, or hormonal.

If I understood "an explanation" given is that the vasodilation prevents this inflamation causing event from happening. Now that would be cool if it were true. Not only is it compatible with auto-immune as proposed by Dr, Waldinger, but is this medication stops POIS from starting.

If "they" pursue this theory, we will have to insist in scientific proof, written and approved by some peer group. OR proceed to do it ourselves.

o, if TN reduces symptoms simply by openning the cereberal vessels, it isn't really a cure, although still would be quite welcome. However if it isn;t a cure we would need to dig deeper and find out the origin of the inflamation od cerebral vessels.


Habibou, I am not too sure still about your test results meaning that you do not have semen allergy. Could you post the results here? Were you tested for type IV reactions at least 2 days after the orgasm for instance? Did you test for semen with sperm, or just semen....

It would be good to have the results so we can better understand the inflamation factor in the brain.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: B_Daniel on July 07, 2011, 11:42:38 PM
Daveman, I like that you're keeping such an open mind through this whole process.  It's like every day someone comes up with a completely new theory on POIS and we all jump on the bandwagon of desperateness!  That being said, I think it's judicious to track every lead.  Recently I have begun to notice that sometimes I will have an O that will cause 9+ days of POIS.  Then other days I have an O and my POIS is greatly reduced within 18 hrs and gone a couple days later.  I've heard other people have similar experiences.  If that's true, it doesn't fully support the auto-immune hypothesis in my opinion - although i don't know enough about allergies to say that resolutely.  Ugh  ??? - sometimes I think we'd be better off trying to Cure Global Warning or the traffic problem in New York City!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on July 08, 2011, 06:49:07 AM
Daveman, this is the only abnormalities (red colour) I got from my blood tests in immunology !

          November                                         June (O 10 hours before + O 3 days before)
-Ig M =      249%                        260%               (of the normal avergave)
-Ig G =       99%                            90%
-Ig A =       49%                           60%            
-Ig E =      190%
   C3 =      124%                            98%
   C4 =        73%                           42%[/td][/tr][/table]


                                     January
-adrenaline           <0.50 nmol/l         < 1.00
-noradrenaline        8.53 nmol/l       < 4.00                              1443 ng/l      < 675
-dopamine            <0.50 nmol/l         <1.00


Unrina :

-adrenaline       0.02 umol/l           < 0.10
-noradrenaline   0.42 umol/l          < 0.50
-dopamine        1.34 umol/l           < 3.00

All the blood tests were done 2 hours after an O.
The red standards are the unusual ones !

Last blood tests abnormal standards (with an 2 "O" 12 and 10 hours before + O 3 days before)
                                                   June
TGMH                           33.3 pg         (27.0 - 32.0)
VMP                              10.3 fl           (6.0 - 10.0)
Reticulocytes                 30 giga/l        (50 - 100)
Phosphatase alkalines    128 U/l          (37 - 111)
Cholesterol                    4.04 mmol/l   (4.40 - 6.45)
Albumin                        48.6 g/l         (38.0 - 46.0)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 08, 2011, 11:25:37 PM
OK, I'm here guys, if you have any questions about my experience with XN I'm ready to answer

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on July 09, 2011, 06:47:24 AM
Hei Victor,

Many questions about it :
When did you try XN? What did you try before XN success for you?
What were your symptoms, exactly? (more cognitive? physic? = could you describe them in details please!)
Do you feel free of symptoms or not totally?
How many suffers you know got a success with that?
Did you have some blood tests in immunology/hormonally + brain MRI? which ones? what were the results?

Good work ! ^^ thank you !
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on July 09, 2011, 07:37:07 AM
Habibou,

I'd say these tests indicate that you DO have an auto-immune reaction. Your IgE is 190% 10 hours after orgasm. This is definitely type I, and just as Dr. Waldinger predicts.

I'm not familiar with the others, but with so much abnormality, it has to indicate domething. Hoepfully we can get someone more knowledgable to interpret these, someone who knows how to interpret them in relation to POIS that is.

It's not that I want to go crazy in support of the auto-immune theory, but it is very important to see why we have cerebral vessel inflamation, and/or other inflamation, becasue although XN might make us feel better, we need to know if it is just solving the symptoms or attacking the cause.

And if it's just solving the symptoms, knowing how and what these are guides us in understanding the process and eventually one would hope, finding a cure.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 09, 2011, 09:23:04 AM
Hi, Habibou!

Hei Victor,

Many questions about it :
When did you try XN?
I tried XN one year ago, on summer 2010. It was not really me who experimented, it was my therapist who experimented, she tried different drugs for stimulating the brain activity, because due to my tests I had starting edema of a brain. I don't know the correct english names for this drugs and right now have no time to lookup, writing from the airport, these drugs were: cerebrolisin, piracetam, glukosa, niacin, cavinton. She treated me against edema, but I complained about my disease and after I came to her after a sex, each time she had a hard time to bring me to normal state, she had a problems with making me a dropper, because in POIS my heart start to go crazy and my blood pressure reacted unusually to drugs, e.g. it started to drop very fast after taking medicines, whereas in normal state it was stable. So she had to find some cure to help me overcome POIS symptoms, so that she would be able to treat my edema. So it was like a technical task for her. The situation was bad also because I had problems with my stomach and she were unable to use niacin, because it is not good for a stomach, so she decided to change the medicine to equivalent, e.g. to XN. And, one time when she suffered again with me, she recommended me to inject myself XN, before I will have a sex and go for a dropper, and since that time I experimented with XN and found minimal doze for myself, which works for me.

I inject 0.5ml of XN once a day, if I'm going to have a sex this day. Timing doesn't really matter I can inject XN just before sex, I can inject it 3 hours before, it will work, and it works pretty long, I think for 5 hours at least. But it should be injected only before sex, if injected after sex it won't help at all, it will be useless

What did you try before XN success for you?
I had POIS since my first O, I was 14 years old boy when I started to feel these terrible symptoms. At first it was only brain fog which disturbed me. To prevent brain fog I had learned poems and texts by heart, after O, and it helped to quickly neutralize POIS symptoms, but over time I needed to study longer and longer texts and around the age of 22 it stopped working for me completely and I've started to attend various doctors. I had a terrible experience with doctors, I went through the road of unbeliveable pain and misery. My only wish was to diagnoze the disease, but I didn't succeded in that. I've failed, tried again and then failed even more, feeling terrible frustration.

After that I've left the comment on the medical consultation forum about this disease, which didn't helped me really but through which I started to find the people with the same disease and one day we with the guy MaxComp decided to have a russian blog about POIS, we really didn't know at that time the name POIS, we called it Syndrom-X. After some time MaxComp became religious person and he said that what we are doing is not right, I didn't understand why, but he left and I'm currently the admin on this blog.

What were your symptoms, exactly? (more cognitive? physic? = could you describe them in details please!)
My symptoms was started as cognitive only, but after the age of 22 I think I started to feel terrible physic symptoms too. I felt aches in the various parts of my body while in POIS, I noticed that I have face edema, my heart was going crazy. I used to run in the morning, I very very like to run, but I noticed that while in POIS if I run, I had terrible symptoms  after that, e.g. they become worser. I also have cognitive symptoms - brain fog, idiotic thinking, depression,  loss of memory, aggression. The last time I had this symptoms they have lasted for 3 days.

Do you feel free of symptoms or not totally?
If I do injection I feel that I'm an absolutely NORMAL person, e.g. I have no POIS symptoms that disturb me, no brain for at all, I can sit and drive the car after sex, without fears. But I do feel that I had a sex, e.g. I feel that its different after sex, I feel maybe that I'm a bit tired, but I don't feel something bad, its all very light.

But right now, you know, I'm almost forget that I have POIS, I feel myself normal person... One always want a better life, but current my life is much more trouble less, the troubles that normal person has is nothing compared to that of POIS-ers.

How many suffers you know got a success with that?
I'm for sure remember 3 sufferers, but maybe I don't remember someone, I shouted to the syndrom-x blog at Friday, but didn't got a reply from anyone yet.

Did you have some blood tests in immunology/hormonally + brain MRI? which ones? what were the results?
Yes, I have such tests. But right now I'm writing from the airport and have no tests with me, I will find these tests and post the results as soon as I will land.

Good work ! ^^ thank you !
You are absolutely welcome. We are all in the same boat.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on July 09, 2011, 01:08:15 PM
Victor, thank you very much for this comprehensive answer !  :) we all learnt a lot from your story !


I'd say these tests indicate that you DO have an autoimmune reaction. Your IgE is 190% 10 hours after orgasm. This is definitely type I, and just as Dr. Waldinger predicts.

Thank you Daveman !  :)
The IgE test had been made 2 hours after an O , in November 2010 (but at this time, we found out a lactose intolerance, so i don't know what is the cause of those high IgE. Since this date, i didn't check !
I should ask or add it on the prescription...

I agree with you Daveman : many standards from Ig A/M/E which are not in the normal and still my doctor said antihistamine would be enough...
Anyways, i sent it to another doctor who spends time on me since he is friend from family, i am looking forward to hear his view !

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Ccconfucius on July 09, 2011, 08:12:51 PM
what sideeffects did your doctor tell you to watch out for using xanithol nicotinate

how do you spell xanithol nicotinate in russian  i think i found a legitimate ukrainian pharmacy that is willing to ship around the world and take major currencies
pharmalad.com
what do you guys think.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: demografx on July 10, 2011, 12:31:42 AM

My 2 cents worth :-)

XN seems to be very B3 related (Niacin), and my DR after much talking of my condition had stated that I should try taking B3. There are 2 kinds, one will make you very flush and one will not, he said to find the non-flush type.....

I had read someone talking about the Niacin and 5 hour energy giving someone an allergic reaction, this was not allergies, this is what the one form of Niacin does....

Anyway thought it was an interesting coincidence.

I am going to start taking my B3 and see....

PS.

mod edit - Niacin bold-enlarged-emphasis above is mine, demo



(http://davefleet.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/shutterstock_2697556-eureka.jpg)


Holy Moly! After re-reading POIS-SUFFERER's post above, it suddenly hit me: my POIS has strangely but dramatically improved recently - 90% to 100% POIS relief, over my usual 80% relief with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)...

At the same time, I also was recently put on NIASPAN® (niacin extended-release tablets) for my cholesterol!

I hope this is real and not just a happy interlude!

Stay tuned!

Wow.

I was warned of a "flushing" side effect, and was advised to take uncoated 325 mg. aspirin 30 minutes before taking the NIASPAN®, for the first few days so the body gets accustomed to it. I was told that many people quit this niacin therapy because of the flushing and possibly other adverse side-effects. Following my physician's directions, I tolerate it very well.

This is NOT a recommendation for you to try it, though I really hope this helps the forum's research! And - as always - work closely with your physician, and keep in mind that we are all different! What works for one person might not work for someone else. And could even be harmful.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 10, 2011, 12:36:23 AM
Hi, Ccconfucius

what sideeffects did your doctor tell you to watch out for using xanithol nicotinate
My doctor told me to read XN instruction for sideeffects and that I shouldn't scary of Niacin Flush when I take XN. But in reality for me flush was very minor and I quickly adapted to niacin, so I don't have visible redness on the skin after taking XN now. You can obviously search over internet about XN sideeffects and instruction in english.

how do you spell xanithol nicotinate in russian  i think i found a legitimate ukrainian pharmacy that is willing to ship around the world and take major currencies
pharmalad.com
what do you guys think.
I spell it "ksantinola nikotinat". I don't know French, unfortunately. And I don't know any credible internet pharmacies.... So really I can't help you here, sorry, google and healthy skeptics are your friends in the search for pharmacy.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 10, 2011, 12:58:39 AM
Holy Moly! After re-reading POIS-SUFFERER's post above, it suddenly hit me: my POIS has strangely but dramatically improved recently - 90% to 100% POIS relief, over my usual 80% relief with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)...

At the same time, I also was recently put on NIASPAN® (niacin extended-release tablets) for my cholesterol!

I hope this is real and not just a happy interlude!

Stay tuned!

Wow.

This is NOT a recommendation for you to try it, though I really hope this helps the forum's research! And - as always - work closely with your physician, and keep in mind that we are all different! What works for one person might not work for someone else. And could even be harmful.
Demo, I like to think that this is the B3 which helps, this would made things easy for many of you, because you don't have XN easily available, but I can't be sure until someone really tries niacin and XN and says that they have the same positive effect for him...

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 10, 2011, 04:01:34 AM
I have a reply to my shout "who tried XN". I will translate these replies and post them here.

One person "gabin" writes that he tried niacin acid in pills in doses 200-250mg at a time, it didn't have any effect on POIS symptoms for him, he writes that he didn't tried injections.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on July 10, 2011, 04:34:12 AM
Is Niacin a compound of semen?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on July 10, 2011, 04:35:50 AM
"Fenugreek contains high concentrations of choline, tryptophan, ascorbic acid, niacin and potassium."
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Bulls eye on July 10, 2011, 04:59:16 AM
Hello victor , my symptoms are very much like yours , am currently 23 ,my symptoms started at my first onset of puberty and was strictly cognitive at that time , it was devastating for me because my IQ was my only asset at school , i'm very happy for you that you found stability and knew how to control pois , wish you all the best :)

I'm having trouble finding XN injections where I live , but there is ceberolysin trade name is cerebrolysin , did it work for you ?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 10, 2011, 07:14:35 AM
Hi Bulls eye,
Hello victor , my symptoms are very much like yours , am currently 23 ,my symptoms started at my first onset of puberty and was strictly cognitive at that time , it was devastating for me because my IQ was my only asset at school , i'm very happy for you that you found stability and knew how to control pois , wish you all the best :)

I'm having trouble finding XN injections where I live , but there is ceberolysin trade name is cerebrolysin , did it work for you ?
No, cerebrolysin didn't help with POIS for me at all

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Ccconfucius on July 10, 2011, 08:30:32 AM
"Fenugreek contains high concentrations of choline, tryptophan, ascorbic acid, niacin and potassium."
Guess what is also a mild vasodilator garlic
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: demografx on July 10, 2011, 11:43:14 AM
" Niacin Physiology:

Niacin is important for the synthesis of the sex and adrenal hormones. Its primary sexual affect is from the side effect of the vitamin. Briefly after ingestion, niacin can produce sensations of intense warmth that quickly spreads throughout the body. This effect, is secondary to a release of histamine that produces a dilation of blood vessels and capillaries which results in subsequent increase in blood flow. The vasodilatation of the blood vessel is very similar to the flush felt instantaneously during sexual excitement and orgasms. The pleasurable feeling can last up to 20 minutes and because there is a larger than normal histamine release, the feeling is often more dramatic than the sensations that occur during intercourse. "

mod edit - bold-emphasis above is mine, demo

From http://www.physiciansselect.co.uk/niacin-vitamin-b3-information.htm
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: demografx on July 10, 2011, 11:46:06 AM
Holy Moly! After re-reading POIS-SUFFERER's post above, it suddenly hit me: my POIS has strangely but dramatically improved recently - 90% to 100% POIS relief, over my usual 80% relief with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)...

At the same time, I also was recently put on NIASPAN® (niacin extended-release tablets) for my cholesterol!

I hope this is real and not just a happy interlude!

Stay tuned!

Wow.

This is NOT a recommendation for you to try it, though I really hope this helps the forum's research! And - as always - work closely with your physician, and keep in mind that we are all different! What works for one person might not work for someone else. And could even be harmful.


Demo, I like to think that this is the B3 which helps, this would made things easy for many of you, because you don't have XN easily available, but I can't be sure until someone really tries niacin and XN and says that they have the same positive effect for him...

Victor


I agree! Thank you Victor for your confirming comment!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on July 10, 2011, 12:20:43 PM
Very interesting Demo, it seems to be a central finding !  thank you It seems to explain a lot more, and sounds very familiar for me at least.. The pois episode, intense long lasting warmth through the whole body, sweating. I noticed I ask everybody if the room is warm for them, just to check if I am not an exception there.

french article translated" niacin is a main factor in the sexual hormones production, blood stream, energy production AND histamine release"

"Some people cant support very well histamine release/absorption and it implies : Headaches, skin troubles, heart palpitations, dizziness, intense warmth feeling, digestive troubles (nausea, colon disorders, stomach.
The symptoms disappear alone in some hours after the histamine absorption."

Histamine could explain the "fake allergic reaction feeling" and the huge amount of it could explain why a simply "antihistamine" never worked for us.
Perhaps the Niacin by injections could prevent the wrong reaction by regulating the Histamine release during arousal and the O.

It would be good to have medical view on this Niacin findings and the possible link with our POIS. I hope Dr Waldinger would have a look on it !
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on July 10, 2011, 12:41:02 PM
Common herbs with vasodilatory actions:
? Achillea millefolium (Yarrow)
? Allium sativum (Garlic)
? Amoracia rusticana (Horseradish)
? Berberis vulgaris (Barberry)
? Cimicifuga racemosa(Black cohosh)
? Coleus forskholii (Coleus)
? Coptis spp. (Goldenthread)
? Crataegusspp. (Hawthorn)
? Eleutherococcus senticosus(Siberian ginseng)
? Ginkgo biloba(Ginkgo)
? Melissa offiicnalis (Lemon Balm)
? Olea europaea (Olive leaf)
? Panax ginseng(Chinese Ginseng)
? Petroselinum crispum (Parsley)
? Scutellaria baicalensis (Baical Skullcap)
? Tilia europaea (Linden Flower)
? Trigonella foenum-graecum (Fenugreek)
? Urtica dioica (Nettles)
? Valeriana officinalis(Valerian)
? Viburnum spp. (Cramp, Bark, Black Haw)
? Veratrum viride (American Hellebore)
? Verbena officinalis (Vervain)
? Xanthoxylum americanum (Prickly Ash)
? Zingiber officinale(Ginger)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: demografx on July 10, 2011, 01:50:56 PM



It would be good to have a medical view on this Niacin finding and the possible link with our POIS.


Habibou, I agree wholeheartedly.

And our POIS-NORD Research Fund is the fastest way to find out!
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=125.0


Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on July 10, 2011, 07:20:02 PM
I tried to give my donation but my "card doesn't work on international websites"  >:( I will send it with another card soon so ! But you are right, we really all need to take part of it at our own scale  :) each $ is welcome !
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: demografx on July 10, 2011, 11:00:00 PM
Niacin monitoring -

Today (POIS onset) was 90%+ POIS-free. After my dose of 500mg (daily) NIASPAN, it feels like it jumped to 100%.

Placebo effect? Time will tell.

(Keep in mind that TRT is still my main POIS "cure", with 2.5 years proven 80% efficacy).
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 11, 2011, 05:36:32 AM
Niacin monitoring -

Today (POIS onset) was 90%+ POIS-free. After my dose of 500mg (daily) NIASPAN, it feels like it jumped to 100%.

Placebo effect? Time will tell.

(Keep in mind that TRT is still my main POIS "cure", with 2.5 years proven 80% efficacy).
Thats interesting.

I can say that:
1. I'm taking XN starting from February 2010, and through all this time it simply works, so probably its not a placebo.
2. I have not experimented of taking XN too much, when I have the POIS, but I noticed that when in POIS it has far less effect, e.g. you need to take very high dose to feel the relief. But again, I didn't experimented much with it. Your dose of 500mg looks big enough, thats why you might feel the relief of up to 20% to your TRT, but I wonder how much niacin in this dose?

Victor

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on July 11, 2011, 09:15:26 AM

1. I'm taking XN starting from February 2010, and through all this time it simply works, so probably its not a placebo.
2. I have not experimented of taking XN too much, when I have the POIS, but I noticed that when in POIS it has far less effect, e.g. you need to take very high dose to feel the relief. But again, I didn't experimented much with it. Your dose of 500mg looks big enough, thats why you might feel the relief of up to 20% to your TRT, but I wonder how much niacin in this dose?

Victor



In point 2 are you refering to when you had forgotten to take XN before so as to prevent POIS? The question is related to point 1. If XN stops your POIS, you wouldn't have POIS to try the XN.

I guess what you mean is that taking it too late (i.e. after the orgasm) it doesn't work much.

I assume you don't take XN daily either right? Just when you know you are going to have an orgasm.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on July 11, 2011, 10:25:16 AM
Victor,

Your doctor that originally directed you to XN must really be commended for her effort and concern. So many just say they can't help you.

She, it was a she wasn't it, should receive some recognition.

can you send me her data? We have a database for POIS related assistance in all parts of the world. The program is a little rough still, I need to get time to clean it up, but it's at http://poiscenter.com/db/collaborator_list.php. Enter her data there so others in your area may be able to go to someone "useful". Also at some point, if we find that XN is a key in all of this, I would like to give her the credit for taking the initiative.

Any key advances on POIS will go into history, as we are at the beginning of a solution.

If you go to the database and have problems entering her data, send it to me via PM and I'll be sure it gets in there.


Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: B_Daniel on July 11, 2011, 10:34:03 AM
Victor,

Your doctor that originally directed you to XN must really be commended for her effort and concern. So many just say they can't help you.


I couldnt agree more.  Great idea Daveman.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: B_Daniel on July 11, 2011, 10:45:47 AM
I tried to give my donation but my "card doesn't work on international websites"  >:( I will send it with another card soon so ! But you are right, we really all need to take part of it at our own scale  :) each $ is welcome !

Habibou, let me know as soon as your donation goes through!  I will update the Donation Tally in the POIS Center forum.

EDIT: I just saw on the NSF forum that your donation went through.  Yayyy!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on July 11, 2011, 02:11:03 PM
100$ isn't a lot but it is a good start !

I have bought "Nicobion 500mg" (french version) to take orally which is same as vitamine PP/ vitamine B3, Niacin, nicotinamide.  Will update  :)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on July 11, 2011, 03:46:39 PM
100$ isn't a lot but it is a good start !

I have bought "Nicobion 500mg" (french version) to take orally which is same as vitamine PP/ vitamine B3, Niacin, nicotinamide.  Will update  :)

It's a great start. If everybody put $100 we'd be there in no time!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on July 11, 2011, 08:08:57 PM
Xanthiol Nicotinate is a form of niacin (Vitamin B3) which is a vasodilator used in peripheral vascular disorders and insufficiency.  Also has been used (in pill form as niacin) to treat short-term memory disorders, lack of concentration, attention and vigilance (works possibly because it dilates constricted cerebral vessels).




This would explain why garlic works against POIS. Because garlic is a vasodilator too, and it cointains a lot of Vitamin B3.

Garlic also lowers blood pressure levels due to its vasodilator properties and may be useful for patients with mild hypertension.
In addition, garlic inhibits the formation of blood clots.

http://www.vegetarian-nutrition.info/herbs/garlic.php

I can recall that more than 3 months ago i ate two cloves of raw garlic and then i had 2 O. soon after i took them. My POIS was nearly inexistent in that case. I have never repeated the "experiment".
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on July 11, 2011, 09:26:06 PM
Thought I'd share a find...

"Niacin is necessary for healthy skin, normal working of the stomach and intestinal tract, caring for the nervous system, and production of the sex hormones."; and
"Niacin has been important to the field of orthomolecular nutrition for its use supporting the higher functions of the brain and cognition."; and
"While niacin was originally helpful for the dementia of pellagra, high doses have been used to support normal mood and psychological function."

Bold is my edits...From the following site

http://www.womens-health-symmetry.com/niacin.html

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 11, 2011, 09:26:36 PM
Hi, Daveman!

In point 2 are you refering to when you had forgotten to take XN before so as to prevent POIS? The question is related to point 1. If XN stops your POIS, you wouldn't have POIS to try the XN.

I guess what you mean is that taking it too late (i.e. after the orgasm) it doesn't work much.
Yes, you are right.

I assume you don't take XN daily either right? Just when you know you are going to have an orgasm.
Yes, you are right again and indeed this is very important point. I believe that only relatively big doses have the effect (though they are big they are in the range of allowed doses that are written in instruction for XN for example), I don't believe that small and often niacin doses will help. But these are my beliefs that come from experiments on myself.

Victor

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on July 11, 2011, 09:33:08 PM
Common herbs with vasodilatory actions:
? Achillea millefolium (Yarrow)
? Allium sativum (Garlic)
? Amoracia rusticana (Horseradish)
? Berberis vulgaris (Barberry)
? Cimicifuga racemosa(Black cohosh)
? Coleus forskholii (Coleus)
? Coptis spp. (Goldenthread)
? Crataegusspp. (Hawthorn)
? Eleutherococcus senticosus(Siberian ginseng)
? Ginkgo biloba(Ginkgo)
? Melissa offiicnalis (Lemon Balm)
? Olea europaea (Olive leaf)
? Panax ginseng(Chinese Ginseng)
? Petroselinum crispum (Parsley)
? Scutellaria baicalensis (Baical Skullcap)
? Tilia europaea (Linden Flower)
? Trigonella foenum-graecum (Fenugreek)
? Urtica dioica (Nettles)
? Valeriana officinalis(Valerian)
? Viburnum spp. (Cramp, Bark, Black Haw)
? Veratrum viride (American Hellebore)
? Verbena officinalis (Vervain)
? Xanthoxylum americanum (Prickly Ash)
? Zingiber officinale(Ginger)

Is it too much of a co-incidence that a lot of the herbs on this list are substances that people have tried with limited success? Could the success be due to the different tolerences that people have to Niacin? (i.e Some people require more to provide a 'Flush').....Hmmm...very very interesting discussions. As I stated on the other forum, I am very cautiously optimistic about this.

I am trying some Niacin 100 mg, twice daily at the moment. Can't try the O at the moment, though until the weekend. Damned Meetings and Work. ...Will keep you posted. Would love to hear if others are trying this stuff also.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 11, 2011, 09:35:49 PM
Victor,

Your doctor that originally directed you to XN must really be commended for her effort and concern. So many just say they can't help you.

She, it was a she wasn't it, should receive some recognition.

can you send me her data? We have a database for POIS related assistance in all parts of the world. The program is a little rough still, I need to get time to clean it up, but it's at http://poiscenter.com/db/collaborator_list.php. Enter her data there so others in your area may be able to go to someone "useful". Also at some point, if we find that XN is a key in all of this, I would like to give her the credit for taking the initiative.

Any key advances on POIS will go into history, as we are at the beginning of a solution.

If you go to the database and have problems entering her data, send it to me via PM and I'll be sure it gets in there.
Agree with you. I've entered some data about her (Bruslenko Olga Vasilevna) at the link you provided.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: B_Daniel on July 11, 2011, 10:56:19 PM
I am trying some Niacin 100 mg, twice daily at the moment. Can't try the O at the moment, though until the weekend. Damned Meetings and Work. ...Will keep you posted. Would love to hear if others are trying this stuff also.

I just bought some Niacin too.  It looks as if a lot of us have gone out and bought B3.  But nobody is writing in about their recent experimentation!  Are we are all waiting for the weekend to O!?!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 12, 2011, 12:52:44 AM
I am trying some Niacin 100 mg, twice daily at the moment. Can't try the O at the moment, though until the weekend. Damned Meetings and Work. ...Will keep you posted. Would love to hear if others are trying this stuff also.

I just bought some Niacin too.  It looks as if a lot of us have gone out and bought B3.  But nobody is writing in about their recent experimentation!  Are we are all waiting for the weekend to O!?!
Yes, seems so :) We are weekend men ;)

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: lauracostis on July 13, 2011, 03:33:05 PM
I really dont see anyone at all selling injectable xanthinol nicotinate anywhere.  Lots of people have already tired experimenting with niacin on the NSF without any luck at all, I would not waist your money on oral niacin or xanthinol nicotinate tablets.  Victor already said that the oral stuff has no effect and you need to inject xanthinol nicotinate for it to work.  We really need to test this at least once, has anyone found any injectable xanthinol nicotinate forsale anywhere?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: lauracostis on July 13, 2011, 03:42:52 PM
what sideeffects did your doctor tell you to watch out for using xanithol nicotinate

how do you spell xanithol nicotinate in russian  i think i found a legitimate ukrainian pharmacy that is willing to ship around the world and take major currencies
pharmalad.com
what do you guys think.
pharmalad has "ksantinola nikotinat", which means xanthinol nicotinate.  I cant read anything on the site so I dont know if they are offering it in tablets or ampules for injection.  It is not commonly taken in injection form so I would suspect that they are offering it in tablet form.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Ccconfucius on July 13, 2011, 08:44:58 PM
they dont have injections they have tablets, i emailed them about injections and they haven't email me back.  I tried a different ukraine online pharmacy and found out you need a prescription to get injectables. i think the key now will be to find out a country that has xn injections without prescription. 
the closest thing i found is a vitamin B complex with niacinmide.   
http://www.b12-shot.com/#bcomp
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: lauracostis on July 13, 2011, 10:50:23 PM
they dont have injections they have tablets, i emailed them about injections and they haven't email me back.  I tried a different ukraine online pharmacy and found out you need a prescription to get injectables. i think the key now will be to find out a country that has xn injections without prescription. 
the closest thing i found is a vitamin B complex with niacinmide.   
http://www.b12-shot.com/#bcomp
I bet that vitamin B complex injection makes you feel good even if it does not stop POIS
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 14, 2011, 12:26:56 AM
they dont have injections they have tablets, i emailed them about injections and they haven't email me back.  I tried a different ukraine online pharmacy and found out you need a prescription to get injectables. i think the key now will be to find out a country that has xn injections without prescription. 
the closest thing i found is a vitamin B complex with niacinmide.   
http://www.b12-shot.com/#bcomp
In Ukraine you definitely do not need prescription to get injectable XN, they sell it to anyone without prescription, so I don't see the reason for online pharmacies to require prescription from you. I think the same is true for Russia. Btw, I think you will have a better chance to get XN from Russian online pharmacy, obviously because Russia is a big country.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: lauracostis on July 14, 2011, 02:04:47 AM
found xanthinol nicotinate injections for sale at:

http://newdailymeds.com/Combination-Drugs/Heart_Care.aspx

just scroll down the drug list on this page until you find the trade name "COMPLAMINA", then it will say XANTHINOL NICOTINATE      300mg/2ml      2ml Inj.      $1.50

let me know what you guys think, the site looks legitimate and the xanthinol nicotinate is dirt cheap.  according to victor a .5ml injection is all he needs, so a $1.50 could possibly provide 4 doses.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 14, 2011, 06:19:15 AM
found xanthinol nicotinate injections for sale at:

http://newdailymeds.com/Combination-Drugs/Heart_Care.aspx

just scroll down the drug list on this page until you find the trade name "COMPLAMINA", then it will say XANTHINOL NICOTINATE      300mg/2ml      2ml Inj.      $1.50

let me know what you guys think, the site looks legitimate and the xanthinol nicotinate is dirt cheap.  according to victor a .5ml injection is all he needs, so a $1.50 could possibly provide 4 doses.
Yep, 2ml ampules is what I use, one ampule for 4 doses.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Ccconfucius on July 14, 2011, 11:21:28 AM
found xanthinol nicotinate injections for sale at:

http://newdailymeds.com/Combination-Drugs/Heart_Care.aspx

just scroll down the drug list on this page until you find the trade name "COMPLAMINA", then it will say XANTHINOL NICOTINATE      300mg/2ml      2ml Inj.      $1.50

let me know what you guys think, the site looks legitimate and the xanthinol nicotinate is dirt cheap.  according to victor a .5ml injection is all he needs, so a $1.50 could possibly provide 4 doses.



how did you find it. have been trying for to long.
am convinced pharmacies are good when they dont sell controlled substances and steroid
that is why i like pharamalad
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Ccconfucius on July 14, 2011, 11:23:20 AM
they dont have injections they have tablets, i emailed them about injections and they haven't email me back.  I tried a different ukraine online pharmacy and found out you need a prescription to get injectables. i think the key now will be to find out a country that has xn injections without prescription. 
the closest thing i found is a vitamin B complex with niacinmide.   
http://www.b12-shot.com/#bcomp
In Ukraine you definitely do not need prescription to get injectable XN, they sell it to anyone without prescription, so I don't see the reason for online pharmacies to require prescription from you. I think the same is true for Russia. Btw, I think you will have a better chance to get XN from Russian online pharmacy, obviously because Russia is a big country.

Victor

they offer cerebrolysin without prescription but not xanithol didnt make sense to me.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Ccconfucius on July 14, 2011, 12:10:45 PM
lauraostisis do you advise using filters with glass ampules because of glass shads from opening ampules

do you use filters and do you store what is left victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: lauracostis on July 14, 2011, 03:47:32 PM
lauraostisis do you advise using filters with glass ampules because of glass shads from opening ampules

do you use filters and do you store what is left victor
using filters is a personal choice, there is no evidence that they are needed and many nurses dont use them.  The instructor that taught me injections showed me the filter needles and then told me that you probably wont use them in the hospital.  As for storing the excess xanthinol from the ampule for later use I am not totally sure what to do.  I would get an empty vial an inject the contents into it for storage, but I know that it is unlikely that somone will have access to empty vials.  Victor, please tell us how you store your left over xanthinol for later use.

Ccconfucius have you ordered any yet, please let me know the details if you do.  It actually took me a very long time to find a retail site that was selling it.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: lauracostis on July 14, 2011, 03:59:04 PM
found xanthinol nicotinate injections for sale at:

http://newdailymeds.com/Combination-Drugs/Heart_Care.aspx

just scroll down the drug list on this page until you find the trade name "COMPLAMINA", then it will say XANTHINOL NICOTINATE      300mg/2ml      2ml Inj.      $1.50

let me know what you guys think, the site looks legitimate and the xanthinol nicotinate is dirt cheap.  according to victor a .5ml injection is all he needs, so a $1.50 could possibly provide 4 doses.



how did you find it. have been trying for to long.
am convinced pharmacies are good when they dont sell controlled substances and steroid
that is why i like pharamalad
I dont really ever buy anything from online pharmacies, but online pharmacies that sell scheduled drugs without a prescription are very sketchy.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on July 14, 2011, 06:56:43 PM
Please, Pay very attention buying drugs from an on line website, moreover in a foreign country !  
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 14, 2011, 10:30:42 PM
lauraostisis do you advise using filters with glass ampules because of glass shads from opening ampules

do you use filters and do you store what is left victor
using filters is a personal choice, there is no evidence that they are needed and many nurses dont use them.  The instructor that taught me injections showed me the filter needles and then told me that you probably wont use them in the hospital.  As for storing the excess xanthinol from the ampule for later use I am not totally sure what to do.  I would get an empty vial an inject the contents into it for storage, but I know that it is unlikely that somone will have access to empty vials.  Victor, please tell us how you store your left over xanthinol for later use.
I an not a good person for answering such questions, because I don't have medical education. I don't want to answer this question to not have you stick to wrong way of doing things, better ask someone with trusted knowledge and experience in this field.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on July 15, 2011, 07:34:00 AM
I'm very interested in understanding what is actually going on with XN / niacin realted products in relation to POIS.

Granted, it is excellent that XN seems to have helped some, and have much hope that it will help a good number more. Our tests I'm sure are aimed at finding, not only a solution to our suffering and symptoms, but I imagine the to illness itself.

I was reading what seemed to be a very informed (albeit) salesman, describe the function of niacin. Apparantly it doesn't produce histamines in and of itself, it dilates the capillaries (very small blood vessels) so that istead of letting blood cells pass, in many cases, in sinlge file, the capillaries open to let pass two or more times the volume.

This has a better capacity to clean out the toxins at the cellular level. Some cells are so plugged up that they can't do their housekeeping under normal conditions, but with the better irrigation, they unclog, and only then do they reach a level at which they can produce and release their own histamines. You know that's happening when you feel the itch with the "flush" of the openned capillaries.

But a given dose, produces the flush and itch only for a couple of days. This leads to question 1), "does this mean that the system has cleaned itself to a level that more histamines are not required to clean the cells"?
Question 2), "What happens when taking XN just prior to orgasm? Does it flush the system and begin a histamine cycle, which somehow blocks the histamine reaction of orgasm, or of a potential type I reaction to semen?

That question is two part I think, in that there ore two potential histaminic reactions, one that is natural with orgasm (although for some reason could cause probelms for a POIS suffere), and one that could relate to an alergic reaction to semen.

The difference is quite important I would imagin, although the effect of XN/niacin is similar in both. Is XN a cure in this scenario, NO I don't think so, unless it breaks some malivolent cycle. Some cause of a malivolent cycle still exists.

What do you think? All? LC?

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Ccconfucius on July 15, 2011, 11:21:24 AM
Please, Pay very attention buying drugs from an on line website, moreover in a foreign country !  
Yeah ordering online iis scary but reading their policies they look okay I will do google India search to see if they are trustworthy

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Ccconfucius on July 15, 2011, 03:11:51 PM
lauraostisis do you advise using filters with glass ampules because of glass shads from opening ampules

do you use filters and do you store what is left victor
using filters is a personal choice, there is no evidence that they are needed and many nurses dont use them.  The instructor that taught me injections showed me the filter needles and then told me that you probably wont use them in the hospital.  As for storing the excess xanthinol from the ampule for later use I am not totally sure what to do.  I would get an empty vial an inject the contents into it for storage, but I know that it is unlikely that somone will have access to empty vials.  Victor, please tell us how you store your left over xanthinol for later use.

Ccconfucius have you ordered any yet, please let me know the details if you do.  It actually took me a very long time to find a retail site that was selling it.

this website have 10mll viials $1.50 a piece.
http://www.gpzservices.com/show_big_cart.asp?Return_To=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Egpzservices%2Ecom%2Fitems%2Fproducts%2Fvials~presealed%2F-br-clear%2Flist%2Ehtm%232453684
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: lauracostis on July 16, 2011, 03:36:56 AM
lauraostisis do you advise using filters with glass ampules because of glass shads from opening ampules

do you use filters and do you store what is left victor
using filters is a personal choice, there is no evidence that they are needed and many nurses dont use them.  The instructor that taught me injections showed me the filter needles and then told me that you probably wont use them in the hospital.  As for storing the excess xanthinol from the ampule for later use I am not totally sure what to do.  I would get an empty vial an inject the contents into it for storage, but I know that it is unlikely that somone will have access to empty vials.  Victor, please tell us how you store your left over xanthinol for later use.

Ccconfucius have you ordered any yet, please let me know the details if you do.  It actually took me a very long time to find a retail site that was selling it.

this website have 10mll viials $1.50 a piece.
http://www.gpzservices.com/show_big_cart.asp?Return_To=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Egpzservices%2Ecom%2Fitems%2Fproducts%2Fvials~presealed%2F-br-clear%2Flist%2Ehtm%232453684
nice find!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on July 16, 2011, 08:07:17 AM
Okay Guys, so here is the first Niacin Pills Report:

I have been taking Niacin (Niacinic Acid) Pills 100mg twice a day since Monday. First time O was last night, but I took 300 mg of Niacin prior to O to ensure that I got the Niacin Flush.

So How am I feeling today?

Well...I feel that my POIS day 1 isn't as bad as it normally is, but its no where near 100% gone either, I would say POIS intensity is 60-70%. However it is very hard to say if this was due to Niacin, it could be a placebo effect, or it could be just the POIS itself. Sometimes my POIS intensity isn't as bad as other times, it just depends on the day.

I am finding that taking niacin is increasing my blood flow, I think I can feel it. The Flush that I get from Niacin isn't really that strong either, it is more of just a mild tingling sensation.

I will just have to keep experimenting. Am very interested in the results of Victor's injectible Niacin Experiment, and any one else's experiences with Niacin. I don't think anyone else has reported back on Niacin as yet...
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on July 16, 2011, 09:03:41 AM
Thanks for the report jivetalk,

Yes, I think the flush, and particularly the tingling/itching is important. If you don't get the tingle and itch, even though you get the flush, then the histamines aren't being released.... which in my opinion is the essencial part to breaking the POIS cycle.

So from my reading, it might be better NOT to take it regularly before hand, just a good enough does an hour ahead. If  you take the niacin regularly, you build up the tolerance, and more is needed to produce the histamine release.

So You know that 100 twice a day then 300 just before will give you a light tingle. Probably without the 200 per day before hand, the same 300 just before should give you a good reaction.

The effect should(?) then be better.

Each one will probably have diferent levels of reactivity, depending on state of health, and levels of toxins. So it's a good idea to find your levels first, taking doses that produce a strong tingle and or itching. I would say the tests shouldn't be regular, that is maybe once every 2 or 3 days take a certain dose to see how much you need and how much you can tolerate.

Once you know the dose, don't take the niacin until just before orgasm.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: lauracostis on July 16, 2011, 12:30:46 PM
If I had to guess, I would think that "Injectible xanthinol" may work because of the powerful vasodilating effect on the body.  In the medical world we consider the flush a side effect of niacin and try to avoid it or the patients wont take their medication. I dont remember Victor saying anything about getting a flush when taking xanthinol.

Victor, can you tell us if you got any flushing or itching after taking xanthinol nicotinate injections.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: lauracostis on July 16, 2011, 12:38:06 PM
Victor have you tried your new nicotanic acid injections yet, I am interested to see if that works also.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: B_Daniel on July 16, 2011, 10:29:02 PM
I bought some Nature's Bounty 500mg Niacin capsules.  The bottle says "Flush Free" on the side.  I don't get the flush or the tingling/itching, even when I take 2 pills at a time.  I wish I could report my findings to everyone, but my POIS symptoms are so circumstantial that it's impossible for me to say after taking it once (just before an O).  I will say though that my symptoms were very weak this time - so I can't say that I know that it didn't work!  that's good, right?  Somebody who's more in tune with his POIS needs to experiment and report back.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on July 17, 2011, 02:33:15 AM
2nd Niacin Pills Report:

Okay decided to O again for the Team this afternoon. This time, I upped my Dosage of Niacin. I have stopped taking the pills on a daily basis as per Davemans suggestion (Thanks Daveman. So anyway - About 45 minutes prior, I took 3 x 100mg tablets, then about 15 minutes prior I took another 2 x 100mg. Definately had the Niacin Flush during the 'deed'.

Results:

OMG - I feel fine. In fact I feel really good. I seem to have a lot more energy. Seems to have kicked me out of the POIS that I had yesterday also. Very Very minor signs of brain fog - I feel I could sit down and have a good conversation with someone, which is very rare for me after O. Am pretty excited about this so thought I'd write on the forum. Of course this still could be Placebo, or one of those rare times that an O kicks me out of POIS. I am still cautiously optimistic. Will keep experimenting and reporting.

P.S- I am not sure about the long term effects of Niacin, I am tempted to up my dosage - but Probably won't until I research Niacin a bit more and what ill effects it might have.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on July 17, 2011, 02:37:28 AM
B_Daniel:

My experience has been, The Flush is what really helps. I was told there are two types of Niacin- Flush and Non Flush - both for different purposes.
You can really feel the flush in the head and face when it occurs, strangely in the same place that the POIS 'headaches/fog'.

I would recommend trying the Flush version 'Nicotinic Acid' - but only if you have no pre-existing medical conditions of course.

Still - although I am getting promising results so far - I am still to convince myself that it is the Niacin that is helping me.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 17, 2011, 08:49:31 AM
Hi All,

I've tried injection of 1% Niacin acid instead of XN today, the dose was 1ml. The initial feelings of this drug activity was that it is not as strong as XN and it takes more time to have the flush. The flush was a bit less strong as well I think. I had an O in 25 mins after injection.

Looks like Niacin Acid actions the same as XN for me, but I need twice the dose of XN or even a bit more, to have the same effect. Anyways - no POIS after 1ml dose of niacin acid - this is the result for now. But my experiment was not absolutely clean, because I had XN injection yesterday, so I need to try for a while Niacin Acid to be sure. Will keep you updated.

Warning! Don't try this on yourself without consultation of qualified medical personnel, you can make yourself permanent injury.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: hurray on July 17, 2011, 09:23:39 AM
Great news jivetalk and Victor - are we approaching a potential cure to POIS at last?

Even if it only works for a percentage of us it would be an incredible discovery! I look forward to hearing more news!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on July 17, 2011, 09:24:11 AM
I bought some Nature's Bounty 500mg Niacin capsules.  The bottle says "Flush Free" on the side.  I don't get the flush or the tingling/itching, even when I take 2 pills at a time.  I wish I could report my findings to everyone, but my POIS symptoms are so circumstantial that it's impossible for me to say after taking it once (just before an O).  I will say though that my symptoms were very weak this time - so I can't say that I know that it didn't work!  that's good, right?  Somebody who's more in tune with his POIS needs to experiment and report back.

The capsules are niacinimide then?

The suspicion is that the flush and or histamine release is what helps, so niacin (the flush kind) is what we need to try.

However it's good that we test the non-flush kind, becasue at this point in time we are still talking conjecture.

You could try a few more times then switch to a flush type (careful with the dose the first time), 500 would probably give you one heck of a ride!

More like 100 to start.

Edit: Written about the same time as the two posts above (before seeing them) anyways, in line with those results. Good work everybody. Hope it leads somewhere. I'm also interested in "what it means for the whole POIS process", and a REAL cure.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: B_Daniel on July 17, 2011, 09:39:40 PM


The capsules are niacinimide then?

The suspicion is that the flush and or histamine release is what helps, so niacin (the flush kind) is what we need to try.

However it's good that we test the non-flush kind, becasue at this point in time we are still talking conjecture.

You could try a few more times then switch to a flush type (careful with the dose the first time), 500 would probably give you one heck of a ride!


My capsules were not niacin (also known as vitamin B3, nicotinic acid and vitamin PP).  Nor was it the corresponding amide, nicotinamide ("niacinamide").  It was Inositol Hexanicotinate  (IHN), which is an inositol that has been esterified with niacin on all six of inositol's alcohol groups.  IHN is usually sold as "flush-free" or "no-flush" niacin in units of 250, 500, or 1000 mg/tablets or capsules.  This form of niacin does not cause the flushing associated with the immediate-release products, and evidence that it has lipid-modifying functions is contradictory, at best.  (This info came straight from Wiki)

I'm glad I researched all that.  I had no idea there were 3 different types of Niacin prior to some Wikipedia research a few mins ago.  Jivetalk and Daveman, thanks for clueing me in.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on July 18, 2011, 03:18:55 AM
Hi Guys.

Thought I'd just report, that I woke up with no POIS symptoms this morning even from my O yesterday afternoon, but later in the morning/day whilst at work POIS symptoms started occuring. Cold Sweats, tiredness (yawning, eye strain) and brainfog. However intensity was maybe 60%. I can't help but feel that the Niacin 'wore off' somehow - either that or it was just Placebo effect - I don't know.

Victor - I am very encouraged that the Nicontinic Acid gave you the same effects as XN. It would be great once you are able to prove that conclusively with a 'clean test'.





Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 18, 2011, 04:33:21 AM
Hi Guys.

Thought I'd just report, that I woke up with no POIS symptoms this morning even from my O yesterday afternoon, but later in the morning/day whilst at work POIS symptoms started occuring. Cold Sweats, tiredness (yawning, eye strain) and brainfog. However intensity was maybe 60%. I can't help but feel that the Niacin 'wore off' somehow - either that or it was just Placebo effect - I don't know.

Victor - I am very encouraged that the Nicontinic Acid gave you the same effects as XN. It would be great once you are able to prove that conclusively with a 'clean test'.
I can say that I've no POIS today, but I felt like I was on the edge of getting POIS after I've tried Nicotinic Acid instead of XN and had an O... And my stomach became crazy, I don't understand is it because of nicotinic acid, or because I took some alcohol on the birthday party of my relative.... Anyways I'm going to continue experiments with nicotinic acid. Also there is XN in tablets. I had tried it one time and failed, but I think now that might be I need to increase the dose and try again.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on July 18, 2011, 11:37:44 AM
I bought in a german online store Xantinol nicotinate retard tablets 1000mg. I will be testing it on weekend.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 19, 2011, 03:53:06 AM
As I think about XN and about experiments with Niacin Acid the episodes from the past come to my mind. I think these episodes might be helpful in understanding the effects of niacin acid variants to the POIS symptoms.

I remember that my doctor at first recommended me to try niacin acid injection at home half an hour before I have the O. I've tried it and reported back to her that it doesn't have the effect. Then she tried many many different drugs to help me with POIS symptoms in the hospital without result and in two month she was almost gave up. Then I've asked her to try niacin acid one more time, because I had some feelings about it, she said that it would be better to try XN, because of my stomach issues. I've tried it and reported back to the doctor that XN really works. She was surprised very much, because XN is actually the niacin acid variant, but at the same time pure niacin acid didn't have effect.. She said that I should try injections of XN of 1ml two times a day during two weeks. Then while I did injections I had many O without POIS symptoms. After two weeks of XN injections I've stopped to do them and tried to have an O on the next day, and I've got all the POIS symptoms. So... regular injections seems do not have a positive effect at least noticeable.

At the same time irregular injections of XN during long time do not tend to higher and higher doses, the needed dose is the same after a year. My dose I think is close to 0.4 ml, when I have 0.3 ml dose I'm still okay, but begin to feel light POIS symptoms - like sand in the eyes tiredness, irritation, but no brain fog...

I can't say that I feel the huge flush when I inject XN, but, I certainly feel something, I can't explain it, but I feel that something goes on in the body, something like vasolidation and of course I feel light flush too, but only light. When I tried 1ml niacin acid injection this Saturday, although I didn't have POIS after it, I felt that I was on the edge of POIS, and though I felt light flush, I think it was not enough to have such flush. And the same was with XN tablets - I felt the light flush, but it was not enough I think. I believe with enough dose the XN tables and niacin acid will work and I want to check this....

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on July 19, 2011, 08:02:23 AM
Most probably, XN is stronger, and especially when injected, goes direct to the system. So probably has a better probablilty of success. Still, we are fairly early in the testing.

It would obviously be much better if we could find a successfull application of regular off the shelf Niacin rather than need an injectable XN which is hard to find, with it's inherent dangers of being injectable.

In any case, testing for both types is early.

So we should continue with both where the ideal situation would be:

After these tests, if both work, it's obviously better to use the off the shelf Niacin. Even those who test well with XN, should then test with regualr Niacin as well.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on July 19, 2011, 11:43:06 AM
I think injections could be healthier. Victors XN dose is 150 mg. I want to try 1000mg in Pill. Perhaps it will work.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on July 19, 2011, 01:16:41 PM
I think injections could be healthier. Victors XN dose is 150 mg. I want to try 1000mg in Pill. Perhaps it will work.

That's a slow release pill right?

My hunch is that it won't work too well because it releases a regular dosage over time and therefore doesn't produce the histamine release as a one time dose just before orgasm would.

These type of slow release pills are made to "flush out" the system, by opening the capillaries, the idea being to flush out colesterol and other junk from the system, methodically. But flush in this sense isn't the same "flush" as a one time dose of Niacin where you feel like you're blushing, body hot and often accompanied by itching.

The slow release pills cause better irrigation at cell level for a prolonged period. But don't stimulate the histamine release because the "flush" is below a threshold. The higher the dose and more constant the dose, the higher the threshold. Where 100 mg might initially stimulate histamine release, with constant use (more than 2 or 3 days) the threshold goes up, and the histamine release does not happen again unless a higher dose is taken.

Whereas Victor takes 150mg of XN injectable, one might have to take 250 or more orally. And one would have to take perhaps at least 300mg of niacin to get the saem effect.

However if Victor were to take 150mg per day, whether he has an oragasm or not, it would stop working.

I read of a person who was taking daily doses of greater than 500mg. after building up the dosage over time. She complained that every once in a while like every 2 mo. or so, she suffered extreme flush and itching, almost intolerable.

The answer was that constant doses build up the flush threshold. She had gotten to a threshold that permitted taking more than 500mg per day. But if she varied her dose, or even forgot for one day, taking the same 500mg would put her past the threshold. So fi for some reason she lowered her dosage, she should not continue with the regular dose, but back off and build it up again.

It SEEMs that we need the flush with histamine release (itch and or tingling), just before orgasm to break the cycle.

So, it's good you take the 1000mg pill. If it doesn't work, at least we can be prepared for why. If it does work, then we need to more completely understand the process.



Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: demografx on July 20, 2011, 01:27:23 PM
I get unpredictable results from my daily Niaspan 500mg (extended release niacin).

The reason, apparently from what we have all learned from Victor et al: my strategy as suggested by my GP is to counteract the flush! (325mg uncoated aspirin 30 mins prior to Niaspan, 1st 2 days, then body adjusts and won't flush).

Exactly the opposite. It is funny: the flush is why people don't stay on niacin therapy!

My main reason, though, for niacin therapy is for cholesterol, not POIS.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: demografx on July 20, 2011, 01:31:56 PM
In a discussion with nordnurse, I learned the following:

"Self-injecting deep IM [intramuscular] into the buttock is very difficult because it's awkward.  Requires a 2" long needle, must be done straight in (90-degree angle) -- or it's not deep IM.  

Also, must be done in the upper, outer quadrant of the buttock -- or else there's danger of hitting the sciatic nerve -- which is not a pleasant experience. And can cause permanent injury. "


Thank you, Stefanie (from NORD)!!!

Good conclusion and recommendation follows below!


But way better to get it [done] by a professional the first times !  [:)]

mod edit: emphasis mine on Habibou's words above - demo

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: lauracostis on July 21, 2011, 02:06:40 AM
It should be noted that although many drugs have equivalents for oral and IM/IV routes, some drugs have no oral equivalent dosages for injections, no matter how high the oral dosage is.  It should be noted that all the oral niacin and XN in the world may not do anything for pois, nor do we have anyone who has ever stated that they took oral niacin and were relieved of pois.  I am only saying this because people are talking about taking "large" amounts of oral niacin which can be toxic to the liver.

again there are thousands of drugs that have different uses for the oral and injectable form of the same drug
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 21, 2011, 06:40:03 AM
It should be noted that although many drugs have equivalents for oral and IM/IV routes, some drugs have no oral equivalent dosages for injections, no matter how high the oral dosage is.  It should be noted that all the oral niacin and XN in the world may not do anything for pois, nor do we have anyone who has ever stated that they took oral niacin and were relieved of pois.
Yep, but lemme check :) , going to take 600mg dose of XN in tablets. Are XN tables easily available in USA?

Edit: Took 600mg, seems way too much, have a very strong flush in 6 minutes. And lol, I have a lobster's face, its all red. Never had such a reaction even with 1ml XN injections, seems 600mg indeed way too much for me, probably no need in such a high dose.

Edit2: In half an hour after O - feel tired, looks like the heart is down... Liver seems reacting too, not good...

Edit3: In an hour - seems no POIS, but feel unhealthy, probably because of liver.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on July 21, 2011, 07:38:34 AM
It should be noted .......  nor do we have anyone who has ever stated that they took oral niacin and were relieved of pois.

I am only saying this because people are talking about taking "large" amounts of oral niacin which can be toxic to the liver.
......


Although it's just one report, take a look at jivetalk's post here (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=174.msg1932#msg1932).

He had a successful test using a single does shortly before orgasm.

My goal is threefold:
1) Attempt to find a combination with an easily available version of Niacin which doesn't have to be injected.
2) Reduce the amount ingested with time, instead of 200 to 300 daily and a higher does of say 500 just before orgasm, take ONLY 200 to 300 once just before orgasm.
3) verify more certainly that the useful effect of Nicain against POIS is the actual histamine release just before orgasm.

Point 1 makes us less prone to breaking the law and or resorting to inscrupulous methods for obtaining the releif
Point 2 should reduce the negative effects on the liver, given that ingestion is sporadic and of lower dosage.
Point 3 could be a key factor in understanding the POIS mechanism.

However:
I agree that we have to be careful with our livers and bodies, for that reason I limit my use of Ibuprofen, even though in the short term it releives my symptoms.
Whether its a high dose or even a medium to low dose, given that we are potentially going to be consuming over long periods, we should have our livers check regularly, as Demo indicated earlier. The same goes for NSAIDs and other drugs that we are taking, especially those that can be bought and take without perscription.


Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 21, 2011, 07:44:02 AM
It should be noted .......  nor do we have anyone who has ever stated that they took oral niacin and were relieved of pois.

I am only saying this because people are talking about taking "large" amounts of oral niacin which can be toxic to the liver.
......


Although it's just one report, take a look at jivetalk's post here (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=174.msg1932#msg1932).

He had a successful test using a single does shortly before orgasm.

My goal is threefold:
1) Attempt to find a combination with an easily available version of Niacin which doesn't have to be injected.
2) Reduce the amount ingested with time, instead of 200 to 300 daily and a higher does of say 500 just before orgasm, take ONLY 200 to 300 once just before orgasm.
3) verify more certainly that the useful effect of Nicain against POIS is the actual histamine release just before orgasm.

Point 1 makes us less prone to breaking the law and or resorting to inscrupulous methods for obtaining the releif
Point 2 should reduce the negative effects on the liver, given that ingestion is sporadic and of lower dosage.
Point 3 could be a key factor in understanding the POIS mechanism.
Point 3 is contradicting my experience. After injection of XN I can have O, even many O's in 3-4 hours after injection and I will not have POIS.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on July 21, 2011, 09:34:12 AM
Victor. As far as point #3....

First we have to be consistent and focused in our testing. If we have results that don't fit with our hypothesis, it does't necesarily mean that we have failed, unless we have been so disorganized that we can't make heads nor tails of the results.

I don't think our tests should be such that we qualify "feel better" as success and "no gain" as failure.

Often, a failure points directly to a direction for a solution. But that can only happen if we have an hypothesis based on as many facts as we can muster, and we can see clearly enough how specifically the failure points to an error in the hypothesis.

Like a row of dominos stood up one in line with the other. If we are so intent on watching the last domino fall that we don't see that the one in the middle is crooked, then we'll never find the solution. The last domino didn't fall, so that line of investigation is a failure???? NO.

We need an hypothesis (as erred as it may be) and we set up the experiment, one domino after the other and watch all dominos. If the hypothesis is quite erred, it will cost us quite a bit more. But we at least can go, one domino at a time, adjusting until the last one falls, or until we can see that there's no way that the dominos can be laid out so as to make thelast one fall.

In the above case, point 3 is:
"verify more certainly that the useful effect of Nicain against POIS is the actual histamine release just before orgasm"

Perhaps the histamine reaction caused by XN / Niacin raises the threshold temporarily (up to 5 hrs) so that the negative histamine release chain that happens with POIS is blocked!

One hypothesis.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on July 21, 2011, 09:45:36 AM
Niacin Pills Report #3:

Dosage: 300 mg about 60 minutes prior to O (3 x 100mg Tablets)

Had another very intense O's last night, but took the dosage above. You know, one of the ones where its very very good, but you're thinking towards the end and afterwards 'Oh no, im going to paying for that for the next few days and possibly weeks!'.

Anyway..No POIS after O last night...... went to sleep and was able to sleep (maybe I'm getting used to the Niacin). However, woke up this morning VERY VERY Hot. I could also certainly feel more blood circulation running through me...I Had to kick the covers off....But....still..No POIS.
After getting up and very suprised I had no POIS and was feeling quite good. About 1/2 to 1 hour after being up and about, I could start to feel POIS slightly coming on. Based on my second Report, where I felt that somehow the Niacin 'Wore off' I decided to take another 100mg tablet. 15 Minutes later, had the flush and the POIS receded....I think I have a plan..

2 Hours later - I Could feel me being on the verge of POIS again...so popped another pill. Same effect, the POIS receded. I did this five times today taking a total of 500mg, and I am sitting here prior to going to bed with very little signs of POIS. I would say throughout the day I had around 10% POIS, which is a HUGE difference for me - But that could just be because I was Soooooo concious of it.

I can't get my hands on any Slow release niacin, but that is effectively what I have done today - 500mg in Slow Release Form.

Notes:
1. I don't think it is actually the FLUSH that is curing the POIS symptoms. The Flush itself only lasts about 5 minutes at the most for me, actually feels quite pleasant - not too strong. However it is well and truly gone by the time the O occurs. As Victor has noted, he can O quite a number of times after XN, but I am sure that the FLUSH would have only lasted a very short time.
2. I do feel slighlty jittery on the Niacin, but nothing too serious.
3. As noted, I have had a little insomnia the past few times I have taken Niacin.
4. I can certainly feel increased blood floor/heart beats whilst on the Niacin
5. I would normally be in VERY heavy POIS right now, tired, lazy, very foggy brain. But I'm actually quite alert, right now, I would say maybe 5% POIS if Anything at all..
6. I also note, usually when I am in POIS  - and I Yawn - I feel VERY EMPTY. As if my Body is Lacking Something severely (vitamins or something) and need to sleep, not sure if anyone else gets that. I did yawn a few times today, but Nothing like a POIS yawn. Just more a normal standard Yawn - and kept going...
7. Going to keep experimenting to see if I can reproduce the results....
8. If this is a Placebo..I hope it continues  :-)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on July 21, 2011, 09:51:01 AM
It should be noted that although many drugs have equivalents for oral and IM/IV routes, some drugs have no oral equivalent dosages for injections, no matter how high the oral dosage is.  It should be noted that all the oral niacin and XN in the world may not do anything for pois, nor do we have anyone who has ever stated that they took oral niacin and were relieved of pois.
Yep, but lemme check :) , going to take 600mg dose of XN in tablets. Are XN tables easily available in USA?

Edit: Took 600mg, seems way too much, have a very strong flush in 6 minutes. And lol, I have a lobster's face, its all red. Never had such a reaction even with 1ml XN injections, seems 600mg indeed way too much for me, probably no need in such a high dose.

Edit2: In half an hour after O - feel tired, looks like the heart is down... Liver seems reacting too, not good...

Edit3: In an hour - seems no POIS, but feel unhealthy, probably because of liver.

Victor

Victor - Thank you!

Can you clarify what you mean by 'Liver seems reacting' and you 'feel unhealthy'- Would like to understand this to see if I have any of the same reactions to Niacin.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on July 21, 2011, 09:59:26 AM
Thanks jivetalk, great tests.... although the quantity consumed is getting to be quite high.
It would be better that we reduce our orgasm cycles enough to be able to keep the "histamine release threshold a little lower" and therefore Niacin dosage lower, than to damage our livers. One or even two oragsms  per week with Niacin / XN is a lot better than POIS without it and cycles of two orgasms per month.

Just a note, Rather than the flush being the cause of symptom reduction, the hypothesis is that the histamine release caused by the flush may be short curcuiting the histamine cycle of orgasm which causes POIS. So even though the actual FLUSH lasts a short time, the histamine release has been triggered.

If the threshold is too high, even the flush won't trigger it. And the hypothesis is, that in taking the Niacin / XN we cause the histamine release and raise the threshold for the period of the orgasm.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 21, 2011, 10:07:54 AM
It should be noted that although many drugs have equivalents for oral and IM/IV routes, some drugs have no oral equivalent dosages for injections, no matter how high the oral dosage is.  It should be noted that all the oral niacin and XN in the world may not do anything for pois, nor do we have anyone who has ever stated that they took oral niacin and were relieved of pois.
Yep, but lemme check :) , going to take 600mg dose of XN in tablets. Are XN tables easily available in USA?

Edit: Took 600mg, seems way too much, have a very strong flush in 6 minutes. And lol, I have a lobster's face, its all red. Never had such a reaction even with 1ml XN injections, seems 600mg indeed way too much for me, probably no need in such a high dose.

Edit2: In half an hour after O - feel tired, looks like the heart is down... Liver seems reacting too, not good...

Edit3: In an hour - seems no POIS, but feel unhealthy, probably because of liver.

Victor

Victor - Thank you!

Can you clarify what you mean by 'Liver seems reacting' and you 'feel unhealthy'- Would like to understand this to see if I have any of the same reactions to Niacin.
I meant that I had some tension feelings in the right bottom area of a chest and I felt some weakness, I think this is because overdose of XN.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 21, 2011, 10:14:28 AM
Victor. As far as point #3....

First we have to be consistent and focused in our testing. If we have results that don't fit with our hypothesis, it does't necesarily mean that we have failed, unless we have been so disorganized that we can't make heads nor tails of the results.

I don't think our tests should be such that we qualify "feel better" as success and "no gain" as failure.

Often, a failure points directly to a direction for a solution. But that can only happen if we have an hypothesis based on as many facts as we can muster, and we can see clearly enough how specifically the failure points to an error in the hypothesis.

Like a row of dominos stood up one in line with the other. If we are so intent on watching the last domino fall that we don't see that the one in the middle is crooked, then we'll never find the solution. The last domino didn't fall, so that line of investigation is a failure???? NO.

We need an hypothesis (as erred as it may be) and we set up the experiment, one domino after the other and watch all dominos. If the hypothesis is quite erred, it will cost us quite a bit more. But we at least can go, one domino at a time, adjusting until the last one falls, or until we can see that there's no way that the dominos can be laid out so as to make thelast one fall.

In the above case, point 3 is:
"verify more certainly that the useful effect of Nicain against POIS is the actual histamine release just before orgasm"

Perhaps the histamine reaction caused by XN / Niacin raises the threshold temporarily (up to 5 hrs) so that the negative histamine release chain that happens with POIS is blocked!

One hypothesis.
Daveman, I understand everything and fully agree with you. Also this is the normal scientific approach for finding out facts about real life objects and processes.

Right now I'm trying to determine minimal doses and effect on my POIS of different XN and different Niacin acid forms (oral / injectable), to provide other people with the direction for doing their own experiments. And when we have a few people with some results we can build statistics. Based on this statistics we can refine our hypothesis and continue doing more informative experiments.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: lauracostis on July 21, 2011, 05:30:34 PM
It should be noted that although many drugs have equivalents for oral and IM/IV routes, some drugs have no oral equivalent dosages for injections, no matter how high the oral dosage is.  It should be noted that all the oral niacin and XN in the world may not do anything for pois, nor do we have anyone who has ever stated that they took oral niacin and were relieved of pois.
Are XN tables easily available in USA?


Victor
no
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: silverandcol on July 21, 2011, 08:27:22 PM
Ok for my xan-pro report, I messed up a little bit but it is okay.  So I orgasm-ed  first and then took the xan-pro pills right after it.  Then I had to work next day so I went to sleep in like 15 minutes even with the slight flushing coming on.  I didn't notice anything else because I was sleeping.  Next day was kinda sucky, I would say 85% POIS.  I fucked up a bit a work because of my inattentiveness and whatnot from POIS, making me regret I ever ejaculated at all.  Good thing my boss is cool.  So when I got home I decdided to go all the way and text the Xan-Pro properly.  Took one 150mg  xanthinol nicotate+42mg Niacin pill tablet of Xan-Pro.  I waited about 30ish minutes then did my business.  It was pretty interesting. It seemed the orgasm was less intense(maybe because it's the 2nd day of orgasm.)  Also I did not get the super strong rush of blood to my face when I usually orgasm.  It definitely felt like a different orgasm.

Next morning I was able to get up at 3:30am even before my alarm went off.  I was not lethargy stricken and being nearly impossible to get out of bed.  It was quite a good feeling of not being 100% POIS smashed.  Throughout the day at work I felt a little POIS, not sure if placebo though.  I would say about 50% POIS, not fully 100% sharp.  It's sometimes hard to tell at work because if it does not stress me out or challenge me enough I can't tell how much POIS I have.  I will play some games real soon though to see how the POIS is really effecting me.

TLDR: Xan-Pro is looking decently effective at reducing POIS symptoms when taken before orgasm.  (maybe the after helped too, I need to properly test this.) =D
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on July 22, 2011, 09:06:07 AM
Explain again the Xan-Pro. You were talking about a 1000 mg slow release the other day. Is it the same?

I'm a little confused because you mention here a 150mg XN + 42mg Niacin. That is the combination that the Xan-Pro contains.

Also, the second test, although positive, might have been even better if you didn't have the POIS of the day before.

So we'll have to see how it goes when you take it "clean".

Sounds good though.

Please confirm the makeup of the Xan-Pro. Thanks

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 22, 2011, 11:21:43 AM
Niacin Acid Tablets Report.

Took 100mg pure niacin acid tablets, half an hour before O. After two hours - no POIS symptoms.

Edit: I took two tablets, 50mg each, had no flush at all. But I think I made a mistake, 100mg is too small dose for me, although the instruction states that 100mg is max one time dose for this tablets. Yesterday night I had a hard time to sleep and had a tension feelings in my head. Today I've waken up with 20% of POIS I think, had the disgusting feeling of POIS beginning. I had a thought - omg, am I going to break out to POIS completely.... After two hours of morning walk with my wife from 4 am to 6 am, I had a feeling of body fighting the POIS. After that I felt 10-20% of POIS throughout the day. The second day was POIS free.


Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on July 22, 2011, 04:16:44 PM
Niacin Acid Tablets Report.

Took 100mg pure niacin acid tablets, half an hour before O. After two hours - no POIS symptoms.

Victor

Great news so far. So I guess you recuperated from the overdose! (XN 600mg)? You had me worried there for a while.

How many of the Niacin acid tablets did you take this time? And did you flush? tingle?

It almost seems like the flushing effect should be in full bloom for the orgasm.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on July 22, 2011, 04:53:11 PM
If 600 mg is overdose and i bought 1g pills :/

(http://www.riemser.com/uploads/tx_hnmproductdb/Compl.Spezial_Xantinolnikcotinat_100_St._01.png)

That are the only ones that i found in Germany. On the leaflet thay write, that you can take up to 4 pills a day, 4g. They sell it OTC.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 22, 2011, 09:58:34 PM
Niacin Acid Tablets Report.

Took 100mg pure niacin acid tablets, half an hour before O. After two hours - no POIS symptoms.

Victor

Great news so far. So I guess you recuperated from the overdose! (XN 600mg)? You had me worried there for a while.
Yes, I recuperated Dave, thank you. The problem is that I have too weak and sensitive liver and stomach, so any form of tablets and pure niacin acid are pretty hard for me, but I want to come up with some useful results.

How many of the Niacin acid tablets did you take this time? And did you flush? tingle?
I took two tablets, 50mg each, had no flush at all. But I think I made a mistake, 100mg is too small dose for me, although the instruction states that 100mg is max one time dose for this tablets. Yesterday night I had a hard time to sleep and had a tension feelings in my head. Today I've waken up with 20% of POIS I think, had the disgusting feeling of POIS beginning. I had a thought - omg, am I going to break out to POIS completely.... After two hours of morning walk with my wife from 4 am to 6 am, I had a feeling of body fighting the POIS and now I think I'm recovered, but lets see how it goes during the day.

It almost seems like the flushing effect should be in full bloom for the orgasm.
I think you are almost right. But I think the flush effect is the indicator only at the start, after a while your body starts to get used to drug and after that there will be almost no flush. At least this is the case for XN, but still the original dose works, I don't need to increase it.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 22, 2011, 10:11:39 PM
If 600 mg is overdose and i bought 1g pills :/
I had the statement in my instruction that 500mg is max one-time dose for these XN tablets. I think you have either different XN tablets or you have slow release pills.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on July 23, 2011, 06:53:39 AM
Victor & SilverandCol,

Thank you So much for your trial and reports - I am reading them keenly.

As you know I am also trying the Niacin, but as per my last report, 2nd Day I could feel a little POIS coming on, but was able to combat it with more Niacin. I think this feeling is what you Victor have described as 'Body Fighting POIS'.
I also noticed on the 3rd Day a slight Head pressure, nothing like POIS - As if I didn't drink enough water, or sort of a slight 'hangover' feeling. 4th Day today, and I feel GREAT, No POIS whatsoever.

I am wondering if XN pills may be more effective now after reading your reports. Will have to wait and see....

Is there anyone else here trying niacin or XN? Would be great to hear your experiences. Please Note if you are. Please heed all the warnings/dangers that have been made by members here.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on July 23, 2011, 06:58:57 AM
Thanks jivetalk, great tests.... although the quantity consumed is getting to be quite high.
It would be better that we reduce our orgasm cycles enough to be able to keep the "histamine release threshold a little lower" and therefore Niacin dosage lower, than to damage our livers. One or even two oragsms  per week with Niacin / XN is a lot better than POIS without it and cycles of two orgasms per month.

Just a note, Rather than the flush being the cause of symptom reduction, the hypothesis is that the histamine release caused by the flush may be short curcuiting the histamine cycle of orgasm which causes POIS. So even though the actual FLUSH lasts a short time, the histamine release has been triggered.

If the threshold is too high, even the flush won't trigger it. And the hypothesis is, that in taking the Niacin / XN we cause the histamine release and raise the threshold for the period of the orgasm.


Thanks Daveman.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on July 23, 2011, 07:19:23 AM
If 600 mg is overdose and i bought 1g pills :/
I had the statement in my instruction that 500mg is max one-time dose for these XN tablets. I think you have either different XN tablets or you have slow release pills.

Victor

Retardtabletten, i think they mean slow release. Victor did you have sensitive liver before taking XN injections or just now?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on July 23, 2011, 08:20:49 AM
Hi guys, just doing some research...xn may not be easily available but it seems other niacin derivatives are....and it looks like it has been used to increase mental alertness, assist chronic fatigue etc... Just google NADH.

Edit: note, this is no suggestion that this may work....just very interesting. Something I may try after niacin and xn.

Sample below...

Combat Fatigue and Support Your Immune System with ProHealth's Energy NADH™
Reduced Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide, known as NADH, is a naturally occurring energy-rich coenzyme of Niacin (vitamin B-3) that is essential for the production of cellular energy. NADH helps turn food into fuel, producing molecules known as ATP - in fact each molecule of NADH produces three molecules of ATP - giving your body a boost.

Every cell in the body requires ATP to function properly and a continual supply of this crucial element is essential to the proper function of the heart, brain, nerves and muscles.

This natural, non-stimulant vitamin has been used for many years as an energy supplement for those with ME/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia. NADH also supports the immune system with powerful antioxidants and free-radical scavengers.

Studies suggest NADH may also help:

Increase mental clarity and alertness
Improve memory and focus
Enhance mood and emotional balance
This exclusive formulation provides improved stability for 100% guaranteed potency. ProHealth's unique cellulose matrix coating also enhances absorption.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on July 23, 2011, 08:25:49 AM
Nicotinic acid vs. XN


"The treatment effect of nicotinic acid and xanthinol nicotinate on human memory was compared with placebo in 96 healthy subjects. Forty-three subjects were young (35-45 years), 30 subjects middle aged (55-65 years) and 23 subjects were old aged (75-85 years). Pre- and post-treatment scores were measured on a battery of memory tasks, covering sensory register, short-term memory and long-term memory. The treatment regime was 1 dragee t.i.d. for 8 weeks. The administration of xanthinol nicotinate (500 mg, containing 141.7 mg nicotinic acid), nicotinic acid (141.7 mg) and placebo (lactose) was double-blind. Pre- and post-treatment scores were analysed by means of a multivariate covariance technique, the pre-treatment score serving as covariate. Nicotinic acid treatment resulted in improvement of sensory register and short-term memory, while xanthinol nicotinate improved sensory register, short-term memory and long-term memory. In comparison with placebo, both active compounds yielded improvements of 10-40%, depending on type of task. Treatment effects of nicotinic acid were predominantly found in the young and middle-aged, whereas treatment effects of xanthinol nicotinate were predominantly found in the old. These results are interpreted by the supposed activity of nicotinic acid at the cell membrane, improving neuronal transmission, and of xanthinol nicotinate inside the cell, enhancing cell metabolism and oxygen supply in the brain. "
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on July 23, 2011, 08:59:40 AM
Last night (at about 3AM, because I'm in day 2 today) I was remembering that when I was younger (about 30 or so), I would take Niacin and Vitamin C before going out for a big party where I knew I would be drinking and getting a good hangover, and then I'd take one maybe once during and before going to bed.

This reduced my hangovers dramatically. It would always surprise me! I can't say they were stopped, but were down to maybe 20% of what it would have been. This was a consistent trick/cure.

So it reminds me a lot of all of this. As I was waking up this morning as a matter of fact, I felt as though I could just as easily be hung-over rather than entering POIS day 2. And it clicked. Is there something in common?

Alcohol also casues histamine release, I think because the system needs to get rid of the toxins caused by the alcohol assimilation. Does the Niacin raise the histamine release barrier or something. Can anybody think of some other mechanism?

I guess I'll have to look on internet to see if they say anything about this "hangover cure".

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on July 23, 2011, 09:12:24 AM
Hi guys, just doing some research...xn may not be easily available but it seems other niacin derivatives are....and it looks like it has been used to increase mental alertness, assist chronic fatigue etc... Just google NADH.

Edit: note, this is no suggestion that this may work....just very interesting. Something I may try after niacin and xn.

Sample below...

Combat Fatigue and Support Your Immune System with ProHealth's Energy NADH™
Reduced Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide, known as NADH, is a naturally occurring energy-rich coenzyme of Niacin (vitamin B-3) that is essential for the production of cellular energy. NADH helps turn food into fuel, producing molecules known as ATP - in fact each molecule of NADH produces three molecules of ATP - giving your body a boost.

Every cell in the body requires ATP to function properly and a continual supply of this crucial element is essential to the proper function of the heart, brain, nerves and muscles.

This natural, non-stimulant vitamin has been used for many years as an energy supplement for those with ME/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia. NADH also supports the immune system with powerful antioxidants and free-radical scavengers.

Studies suggest NADH may also help:

Increase mental clarity and alertness
Improve memory and focus
Enhance mood and emotional balance
This exclusive formulation provides improved stability for 100% guaranteed potency. ProHealth's unique cellulose matrix coating also enhances absorption.


Jivetalk,

There are other providers of this compund? How expensive is it and how hard is it to get?

We can always test it. Sometime the derivitives are better for "the intended use" but might not be better for POIS. At this stage, I tink we should be open to testing of a larger range, but should be careful not to mix the tests or confuse the influence of one type over the effects of another.

I've been thinking of setting up some labs here to better control all the various tests.

We should have one lab to test XN, another to test Nicotinic Acid, amybe another to test a derivitive similar to this mentioned here. But we should try to resist mixing and change between test types.

If we have interested parties and individuals who will volunteer for more controlled tests of individual elements, let me know and I start to set up the space.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on July 23, 2011, 08:36:09 PM
Yes, I try Nicobion (Niacin) 500mg and try to get it before the O. The matter is I got too many NE those last days so i cant see the effect while i took it before the O ! But it is clear I deleted some symptoms with Niacin.

I try to understand the mechanism of the "oral type" and the "injection type on the internet, it is fascinating! I will update when i can translate it.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Guthrie on July 24, 2011, 04:49:29 AM
Hi all,

I also had a chance to test Niacin on myself.  On Thursday, I took 300 mg of Niacin on a mostly empty stomach, about 40 minutes before O.  The 'flush' came on pretty quickly (within 5 minutes or so); it was definitely quite noticeable and lasted about an hour--continuing for about 20 minutes after the O.

Results:
The O was at 6:00 pm.  In the hour or so immediately following the O, I felt better than usual.  I didn't feel the usual initial feelings of POIS 'creeping up.'  So that was a positive start.  However, later in the evening, I was feeling a bit out of it, so I began to think that the niacin hadn't prevented POIS.

However, when I woke up the next morning (Friday), I found that I did NOT have the usual POIS brainfog and emotional/cognitive fatigue.  I would say that the POIS feelings were only at about 15-20% of their usual.  It was certainly a noticeable difference, so perhaps the niacin was effective!  Moreover, the 15-20% lasted throughout the whole day.

So, I would so that the initial experiment was a success.  I'm not sure what accounted for the less-good feelings of the later evening of Day 0, but Day 1 was certainly a big improvement.   Did the niacin simply shorten the POIS episode, so that it mostly ended while I slept on Thursday night?  Or perhaps it prevented POIS entirely, while the problems of the Day 0 evening were not POIS, but a reaction to the niacin.

In any case, I will need to test it again.  Perhaps I should use a little less niacin, since a one-hour flush seems a bit long.  But, it will be good to see if the overall effect is replicable, and if so, how the dosage affects things, and also whether being 'in flush' right at the moment of O makes a difference.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on July 24, 2011, 07:36:57 AM
Guthrie,

In my post about the hangover prevention http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=174.msg2055#msg2055, it was similar in that I still had a hangover, but it was 15 to 20% of what it should have been, like you say here with your first test.

It would ALWAYS astound me, and it ALWAYS worked. It felt as though it was there in the background being "held back", or like it was being experienced through some kind of "filter".

I hope to buy some Niacin shortly too. This is exciting!

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: B_Daniel on July 24, 2011, 06:08:38 PM
Hi guys, just doing some research...xn may not be easily available but it seems other niacin derivatives are....and it looks like it has been used to increase mental alertness, assist chronic fatigue etc... Just google NADH.

Edit: note, this is no suggestion that this may work....just very interesting. Something I may try after niacin and xn.

Sample below...

Combat Fatigue and Support Your Immune System with ProHealth's Energy NADH™
Reduced Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide, known as NADH, is a naturally occurring energy-rich coenzyme of Niacin (vitamin B-3) that is essential for the production of cellular energy. NADH helps turn food into fuel, producing molecules known as ATP - in fact each molecule of NADH produces three molecules of ATP - giving your body a boost.

Every cell in the body requires ATP to function properly and a continual supply of this crucial element is essential to the proper function of the heart, brain, nerves and muscles.

This natural, non-stimulant vitamin has been used for many years as an energy supplement for those with ME/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia. NADH also supports the immune system with powerful antioxidants and free-radical scavengers.

Studies suggest NADH may also help:

Increase mental clarity and alertness
Improve memory and focus
Enhance mood and emotional balance
This exclusive formulation provides improved stability for 100% guaranteed potency. ProHealth's unique cellulose matrix coating also enhances absorption.

NADH looks to be a nicotinamide.  The amide version of niacin/ nicotinic acid does not cause flushing, and therefor may not help us.  (I'm not saying it's not worth a try, I just wanted to point this out)

from wikipedia...
Nicotinamide, also known as niacinamide and nicotinic acid amide, is the amide of nicotinic acid (vitamin B3 / niacin).. Nicotinic acid, also known as niacin, is converted to nicotinamide in vivo, and, though the two are identical in their vitamin functions, nicotinamide does not have the same pharmacologic and toxic effects of niacin, which occur incidental to niacin's conversion. Thus nicotinamide does not reduce cholesterol or cause flushing
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: B_Daniel on July 24, 2011, 06:18:55 PM

Right now I'm trying to determine minimal doses and effect on my POIS of different XN and different Niacin acid forms (oral / injectable), to provide other people with the direction for doing their own experiments. And when we have a few people with some results we can build statistics. Based on this statistics we can refine our hypothesis and continue doing more informative experiments.

Victor

I think I speak for many of us here when I thank you, Victor, for trying all these different combinations and dosages of Niacin Acid and XN pills for us. 

You've already got a treatment that works for you through the XN injections, but you're putting yourself through POIS to help the rest of us, who can't get access to the XN injections.  It's greatly appreciated!  You're clearly a stand-up guy! 
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: B_Daniel on July 24, 2011, 06:23:50 PM

... So when I got home I decdided to go all the way and text the Xan-Pro properly.  Took one 150mg  xanthinol nicotate+42mg Niacin pill tablet of Xan-Pro....

I'm a little confused because you mention here a 150mg XN + 42mg Niacin. That is the combination that the Xan-Pro contains.


Silverandcol - I'm confused about this as well.  The Xan-Pro (XN) that you bought comes in 150mg tablets.  So are you saying you took (1) Xan-Pro tablet AND also (1) 42mg Niacin pill???
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: B_Daniel on July 24, 2011, 06:33:09 PM
... Unfortunately you don't have XN in tablets easily available in USA and Europe, but from whatever reason I thought that you have.


Hi guys, just doing some research...xn may not be easily available but it seems other niacin derivatives are....


International Antiaging Systems (IAS) or (Antiaging-systems.com) ships XN pills via a supplement named Xan-Pro.  It costs $20 for a 50 pill bottle and can be shipped world-wide.  I've ordered countless items on this website over the last 5 years and have never had a problem.  A couple of us have even ordered the Xan-Pro from IAS and have already gotten it.  So I don't think it's a stretch to say that XN is easily available!  I ordered some last week and I got it to my place in California within 7 days- Awesome!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on July 25, 2011, 01:53:19 AM
... Unfortunately you don't have XN in tablets easily available in USA and Europe, but from whatever reason I thought that you have.


Hi guys, just doing some research...xn may not be easily available but it seems other niacin derivatives are....


International Antiaging Systems (IAS) or (Antiaging-systems.com) ships XN pills via a supplement named Xan-Pro.  It costs $20 for a 50 pill bottle and can be shipped world-wide.  I've ordered countless items on this website over the last 5 years and have never had a problem.  A couple of us have even ordered the Xan-Pro from IAS and have already gotten it.  So I don't think it's a stretch to say that XN is easily available!  I ordered some last week and I got it to my place in California within 7 days- Awesome!

Hi B_Daniel,

This is excellent. If the XN  pills works as the preliminary tests of XN and Niacin have shown, we will have an accessible solution for everyone. Please let us all know how you go with the XN pills you ordered. I will look at ordering some myself to see how they compare with Niacin.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on July 25, 2011, 01:59:19 AM
Hi guys, just doing some research...xn may not be easily available but it seems other niacin derivatives are....and it looks like it has been used to increase mental alertness, assist chronic fatigue etc... Just google NADH.

Edit: note, this is no suggestion that this may work....just very interesting. Something I may try after niacin and xn.

Sample below...

Combat Fatigue and Support Your Immune System with ProHealth's Energy NADH™
Reduced Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide, known as NADH, is a naturally occurring energy-rich coenzyme of Niacin (vitamin B-3) that is essential for the production of cellular energy. NADH helps turn food into fuel, producing molecules known as ATP - in fact each molecule of NADH produces three molecules of ATP - giving your body a boost.

Every cell in the body requires ATP to function properly and a continual supply of this crucial element is essential to the proper function of the heart, brain, nerves and muscles.

This natural, non-stimulant vitamin has been used for many years as an energy supplement for those with ME/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia. NADH also supports the immune system with powerful antioxidants and free-radical scavengers.

Studies suggest NADH may also help:

Increase mental clarity and alertness
Improve memory and focus
Enhance mood and emotional balance
This exclusive formulation provides improved stability for 100% guaranteed potency. ProHealth's unique cellulose matrix coating also enhances absorption.


Jivetalk,

There are other providers of this compund? How expensive is it and how hard is it to get?

We can always test it. Sometime the derivitives are better for "the intended use" but might not be better for POIS. At this stage, I tink we should be open to testing of a larger range, but should be careful not to mix the tests or confuse the influence of one type over the effects of another.

I've been thinking of setting up some labs here to better control all the various tests.

We should have one lab to test XN, another to test Nicotinic Acid, amybe another to test a derivitive similar to this mentioned here. But we should try to resist mixing and change between test types.

If we have interested parties and individuals who will volunteer for more controlled tests of individual elements, let me know and I start to set up the space.


I think the NADH is quite easily available based on the internet searches I've done - It does look quite expensive though in comparson to Niacin or XN, and comes in much lower doses 5 or 10 mg. Wether it is effective for POIS or not is yet to be seen. As mentioned, I'm going to try XN after I've done a series Niacin tests to see how I go......

It would be interesting though to see if something like NADH does work, because it has been used to treat Chronic Fatigue and Short Term Memory loss etc...It could be an alternative for those with Liver problems or those with strong side effects.
 
In regards to tests, I'm in Australia, so I won't be able to physically attend - But of course happy to hear your ideas and help in any way.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on July 25, 2011, 02:06:43 AM
Hi all,

I also had a chance to test Niacin on myself.  On Thursday, I took 300 mg of Niacin on a mostly empty stomach, about 40 minutes before O.  The 'flush' came on pretty quickly (within 5 minutes or so); it was definitely quite noticeable and lasted about an hour--continuing for about 20 minutes after the O.

Results:
The O was at 6:00 pm.  In the hour or so immediately following the O, I felt better than usual.  I didn't feel the usual initial feelings of POIS 'creeping up.'  So that was a positive start.  However, later in the evening, I was feeling a bit out of it, so I began to think that the niacin hadn't prevented POIS.

However, when I woke up the next morning (Friday), I found that I did NOT have the usual POIS brainfog and emotional/cognitive fatigue.  I would say that the POIS feelings were only at about 15-20% of their usual.  It was certainly a noticeable difference, so perhaps the niacin was effective!  Moreover, the 15-20% lasted throughout the whole day.

So, I would so that the initial experiment was a success.  I'm not sure what accounted for the less-good feelings of the later evening of Day 0, but Day 1 was certainly a big improvement.   Did the niacin simply shorten the POIS episode, so that it mostly ended while I slept on Thursday night?  Or perhaps it prevented POIS entirely, while the problems of the Day 0 evening were not POIS, but a reaction to the niacin.

In any case, I will need to test it again.  Perhaps I should use a little less niacin, since a one-hour flush seems a bit long.  But, it will be good to see if the overall effect is replicable, and if so, how the dosage affects things, and also whether being 'in flush' right at the moment of O makes a difference.

Thank you very much for your report Guthrie. The more reports we get from members the more evidence we have that this is real. Please keep us posted on our subsequent tests.

Note: I too felt a bit of POIS on the subsequent day. Taking another single Niacin Pill seemed to help me out.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on July 25, 2011, 02:23:33 AM
Hi guys, just doing some research...xn may not be easily available but it seems other niacin derivatives are....and it looks like it has been used to increase mental alertness, assist chronic fatigue etc... Just google NADH.

Edit: note, this is no suggestion that this may work....just very interesting. Something I may try after niacin and xn.

Sample below...

Combat Fatigue and Support Your Immune System with ProHealth's Energy NADH™
Reduced Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide, known as NADH, is a naturally occurring energy-rich coenzyme of Niacin (vitamin B-3) that is essential for the production of cellular energy. NADH helps turn food into fuel, producing molecules known as ATP - in fact each molecule of NADH produces three molecules of ATP - giving your body a boost.

Every cell in the body requires ATP to function properly and a continual supply of this crucial element is essential to the proper function of the heart, brain, nerves and muscles.

This natural, non-stimulant vitamin has been used for many years as an energy supplement for those with ME/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia. NADH also supports the immune system with powerful antioxidants and free-radical scavengers.

Studies suggest NADH may also help:

Increase mental clarity and alertness
Improve memory and focus
Enhance mood and emotional balance
This exclusive formulation provides improved stability for 100% guaranteed potency. ProHealth's unique cellulose matrix coating also enhances absorption.

NADH looks to be a nicotinamide.  The amide version of niacin/ nicotinic acid does not cause flushing, and therefor may not help us.  (I'm not saying it's not worth a try, I just wanted to point this out)

from wikipedia...
Nicotinamide, also known as niacinamide and nicotinic acid amide, is the amide of nicotinic acid (vitamin B3 / niacin).. Nicotinic acid, also known as niacin, is converted to nicotinamide in vivo, and, though the two are identical in their vitamin functions, nicotinamide does not have the same pharmacologic and toxic effects of niacin, which occur incidental to niacin's conversion. Thus nicotinamide does not reduce cholesterol or cause flushing

Hi B_Daniel,

I think they are slightly different somehow, but you may be right...I'm only basing this on the fact that NADH is marketed separately from - Niacidimide.
In Any case, even though you purchased the Niacidimide, did you try that for POIS at all?

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: silverandcol on July 25, 2011, 03:25:11 AM

... So when I got home I decdided to go all the way and text the Xan-Pro properly.  Took one 150mg  xanthinol nicotate+42mg Niacin pill tablet of Xan-Pro....

I'm a little confused because you mention here a 150mg XN + 42mg Niacin. That is the combination that the Xan-Pro contains.


Silverandcol - I'm confused about this as well.  The Xan-Pro (XN) that you bought comes in 150mg tablets.  So are you saying you took (1) Xan-Pro tablet AND also (1) 42mg Niacin pill???

O sorry I just took one pill, I was simply listing the ingredients lol.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: B_Daniel on July 26, 2011, 06:30:21 PM

Hi B_Daniel,

This is excellent. If the XN  pills works as the preliminary tests of XN and Niacin have shown, we will have an accessible solution for everyone. Please let us all know how you go with the XN pills you ordered. I will look at ordering some myself to see how they compare with Niacin.

I need to experiment more so that I have some actual evidence to bestow upon the group.  My short update so far though is that I tried my Xan-Pro (XN) for the first time last night.  I took 2 (150mg) tablets.  Problem was I essentially took the pills right after the O.  Today I feel like crap, with 75%+ POIS.  I've done nothing all day but mess around online and watch TV.  What a way to live my life.  Next time I can assure you I'll be taking the XanPro far in advance of the O - and hopefully I'll have more promising results to share.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: B_Daniel on July 26, 2011, 06:35:47 PM

Hi B_Daniel,

I think they are slightly different somehow, but you may be right...I'm only basing this on the fact that NADH is marketed separately from - Niacidimide.
In Any case, even though you purchased the Niacidimide, did you try that for POIS at all?


I actually didn't purchase the niacidimide, I don't know why I wrote that.  I purchased the inositol hexanicotinate.  It comes in 500mg pill sizes, and I took 2, then had the O.  I felt pretty good the next day.  But I put the qualifier here that it had been over a week since my O prior to that, and sometimes my POIS is naturally very minor in that situation.  I will experiment with that again... but only after another 2 experimentations with the XanPro....    Now I see why daveman recommends we have different groups of ppl try diff variations of Niacin - Not 1 person try all 3!  My tests are never clean bc of it!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: silverandcol on July 26, 2011, 07:16:51 PM

Hi B_Daniel,

This is excellent. If the XN  pills works as the preliminary tests of XN and Niacin have shown, we will have an accessible solution for everyone. Please let us all know how you go with the XN pills you ordered. I will look at ordering some myself to see how they compare with Niacin.

I need to experiment more so that I have some actual evidence to bestow upon the group.  My short update so far though is that I tried my Xan-Pro (XN) for the first time last night.  I took 2 (150mg) tablets.  Problem was I essentially took the pills right after the O.  Today I feel like crap, with 75%+ POIS.  I've done nothing all day but mess around online and watch TV.  What a way to live my life.  Next time I can assure you I'll be taking the XanPro far in advance of the O - and hopefully I'll have more promising results to share.

Yeh, I made that mistake twice, sometimes, I just can't help it though =(.  Taking after is definitely way less effective.  I do have the theory though that if you are already in POIS, you can remove it by taking xan-pro the next day right before ejaculation.  Not sure why that would work but I have a feeling it would clear away the previous POIS by giving you a flushed orgasm.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on July 27, 2011, 12:33:35 AM
Niacin Pills Report #4:

Okay Guys for this little experiment, I tried to do something which would normally have had me in VERY VERY POIS, cowering in a corner somewhere, shutting myself away from the world - completely unmotivated, lethargic, full of brain Fog and likely depressed. I have tried to O twice in two days - both times using Niacin (Nicotinic Acid Pills).

Monday Night:
Dosage: 3 x 100mg Nicotinic Acid Pills about 40 Minutes prior to O.

Straight after O, absoloutely no Brain Fog which is my main symptom straight after O. Was able to sleep fine - It seems that the Niacin Side Effects that I initially had are starting to wear off.

Tuesday Morning:
Woke up the next morning, was again absolutely amazed that I was NOT lethargic, and had Zero Brain Fog. It really is a DIFFERENT feeling waking up the next morning - expecting POIS but having NONE. Throughout the day, I maybe had 5-10% of Brain Fog - but it's hard to tell if this was due to brain fog or something else/stress/headache etc...

Tuesday Night:
Dosage: 3 x 100mg Nicotinic Acid Pills about 40 Minutes prior to O.

Same Scenario as previous night - No problems sleeping or overheating at all.

Wednesday Morning:
I woke up this morning, really really expecting POIS - some of Lethargy or brain fog at least. To my great suprise I had absotley NOTHING. It is currently about 3.21pm here - and I have had absolutely Zero symptoms all Day. I feel absolutely fantastic today - This is probably a combination of it being a Sunny day here AND the fact I have no POIS today, and are very excited by this little experiment.


Notes:
- I am VERY VERY excited by this test, I wanted to do something that would have for SURE put me in POIS previously.
- I did this test to prove to myself that this is NOT a PLACEBO effect.
- I made SURE that I took the Pills at least 30 mins Prior to O, and that I felt the FLUSH effect completely - and let it pass before O. I feel this is a critical component.
- I think that if you do not do the above, the damage would have already been done if you O - and these pills would only have little effect (although they still will have some).
- I will try to reduce my dosage soon, but at this stage am reluctant, as I am getting such good results.
- Please Keep posting our Results - GOOD or BAD.


If you will now excuse me, I am going to make some 'I LOVE B3' Tshirts to wear around. I think some of you here also made some promises about putting up posters of a certain Guy and his CAT    ;D


Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on July 27, 2011, 08:21:24 AM
Here is the pharmacokinetics of an oral pill and the optimal effect in the body :
(it can fluctuate, regarding the pills, but this is an average) Our next step is to know it for the Niacin/XN.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on July 27, 2011, 01:01:43 PM
Slow release pills DONT WORK. You must have this quick strong flush, otherwise you will get POIS.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on July 27, 2011, 01:15:09 PM
jivetalk!!

Great news, lets hope that others can get the same results.

Make those T-Shirts and lets sell then to raise funds for our research.

We are so close with this that the research should be able to devise a definitve cure much more easily. Something that doesn;t damage the stomach and liver and something that doesn't cause the flush.

But in the meantime..EXTATIC
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on July 30, 2011, 12:50:56 AM
Niacin Acid Tablets Report #5.

Yesterday I've tried to experiment with the dose of Niacin Acid used by jivetalk. I took 300mg in Niacin Acid tablets. And I had a very good experience.

Last time I'm working pretty hard - 15 hours a day, and last days I felt pretty bad, my heart started going down because of tiredness. After taking 300mg Niacin Tablets I felt rise of my strength, my heart started working good again and I finished important milestone yesterday in my work after having an O. Also I had pleasant feeling in my head. This time there were not any negative feelings from stomach or liver. So maybe I have started to adapt to Niacin Acid tablets somehow.

After taking 300mg of Niacin Acid I felt flush in 5 minutes and in an hour the flush was pretty strong, but this time it was even pleasant. My face was red, but I didn't feel any discomfort. I had an O in an hour after taking the tablets. I didn't feel any POIS symptoms neither yesterday, nor today in the morning. So, this time niacin acid tablets was as good as XN injections for me.

I'm going to continue taking niacin acid tablets several times more to check whether this result will be stable.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on July 30, 2011, 01:38:52 AM
jivetalk!!

Great news, lets hope that others can get the same results.

Make those T-Shirts and lets sell then to raise funds for our research.

We are so close with this that the research should be able to devise a definitve cure much more easily. Something that doesn;t damage the stomach and liver and something that doesn't cause the flush.

But in the meantime..EXTATIC

Daveman,

Was really joking about the T-Shirts :) - I'm not sure if I'd be game enough to walk around and have people ask me 'Why do you love B3 ?' - And I'm not sure how many of us would want to either. Unfortunately POIS is one of those 'embarrassing' disorders which we don't really want to talk about much out in the open, sometimes even with our own doctors.

I do sincerely hope that others get similar results to myself and Victor for the Niacin Tablets. I am very much looking forward to hearing about peoples experiences.
I hope people do allow Niacin the right 'chance', i.e, by taking it properly  (about an hour prior to O).

JT

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: B_Daniel on July 30, 2011, 11:24:29 AM
I took 3 Xan-Pro tablets (450mg of XN) last night and after a mild flush for 20 mins I had an O.  My POIS today is sub 20% for sure!  Success!  I woke up this morning at 6:30am and had trouble going back to sleep until 8am.  On a POIS day, I wouldve slept til 1pm no problem.  I'll write a follow-up post later to let ya'll know if my pois symptoms creep back later today or not.

edit: i don't think I faced any additional POIS later on in the day.  that's a somewhat difficult thing for me to accurately gauge though.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: B_Daniel on July 31, 2011, 12:11:09 AM
.....

Make those T-Shirts and lets sell then to raise funds for our research.

We are so close with this that the research should be able to devise a definitve cure much more easily. Something that doesn;t damage the stomach and liver and something that doesn't cause the flush.

But in the meantime..EXTATIC

I completely agree that research will be SOOO valuable at this point!  And we do need to find a way to boost donations.  haha I don't think it's an I heart B3 t shirts, but I LIKE the thought process, daveman.  Maybe Dr. Waldinger would sign a copy of his Jan 2011 Published Study, that we could mail to anyone making a donation of $100 and up?  I'm gonna put this idea on the NORD Fundraising thread...
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Vincent M on August 02, 2011, 07:57:49 PM
Can someone post a link to where I can buy Niacin pills(the fast releasing kind)?

Perhaps jivetalk and guthrie since you've had good results with niacin pills could you give me the link to where you bought yours?

I wanna give 'em a test run, but I want to make sure I'm getting the right stuff.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on August 03, 2011, 06:59:42 AM
As far as I know, Niacin pills are available over the counter just about anywhere. That's the beauty of it.

Any place that sells vitamins should have them.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on August 03, 2011, 08:20:23 AM
As far as I know, Niacin pills are available over the counter just about anywhere. That's the beauty of it.

Any place that sells vitamins should have them.



Correct Daveman. I literally went into the First Health/Vitamin Store and Asked for some Nicotinic Acid/Niacin Pillls.

The tablets i used are made by Thompsons who are An australian and new zealand company. Depending on where u r in the world will determine if you can get this brand. However, any brand which is 'nicotonic acid' will be exactly the same. Just make sure it is not a variant like niacidimide or something like that. I've added a link below of the brand i use.

http://www.completehealth.com.au/Products/Vitamin_B3_Niacin_~_Nicotinic_Acid_100mg__100_tablets.aspx

Some others have tried Xan-pro from anti aging systems and seem to have similar results too.

A couple of things if u r going to try this...
1. Check with your dr to ensure its okay for you to take 300mg or more of niacin, as it can interfere with other meds, and can cause liver damage.
2. Take the niacin well in advance of the O. Ensure that you get the flush and it has passed before u O. This varies depending on if you have eaten etc...but is for me usually between 30 mins and 60 mins. Taking niacin After the o seems to have little effect.

Please let us all know your results - Good or Bad.

Good Luck!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Vincent M on August 03, 2011, 04:08:20 PM
Thanks guys. I'll let you know how it works out for me.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on August 03, 2011, 04:23:24 PM
I should be picking up Niacin tomorrow. I'm in day 2 so I'll very likely wait until I'm "free".

This will give me a bit of time to test the dosage (for flush and reaction), maybe up to two tests depending how the first one goes. I'm going to start with 100mg, being as I'm not sure how I'll react.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on August 04, 2011, 07:42:08 AM
I should be picking up Niacin tomorrow. I'm in day 2 so I'll very likely wait until I'm "free".

This will give me a bit of time to test the dosage (for flush and reaction), maybe up to two tests depending how the first one goes. I'm going to start with 100mg, being as I'm not sure how I'll react.



Awesome Daveman! Can't wait to see if it works for you as well as it has for me!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on August 05, 2011, 11:49:49 AM
Hi All,

I continue experiments with Niacin Acid tablets. Seems the effect is stable for me, e.g. no POIS symptoms if tablets are taken 1 hour before "O" in dosage of 150 mg. I've tried this trick 3 times so far, and every time - no POIS.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on August 05, 2011, 02:35:19 PM
Thanks Victor, great news, and a reasonable dose!

I hope to start soon. I made the mistake of sending my wife out to look for the Niacin, and she came back empty handed.  >:( >:(  The pharmacist was completely stupid and my wife didn't have enough information to set her straight. They're so focused in selling brand names, they don't know how to sell by ingredient... Anyways it would have been better to go to a health store or herbal place...

I'll just have to go myself. I live in the country so will need to wait till the next time I go into town. The trip costs as much as the Niacin!

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: JRD on August 05, 2011, 04:45:56 PM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/676925

Quote
The vasomotor response of dopamine and dopaminergic agonists was studies on feline isolated middle cerebral arteries in vitro and pial arterioles in situ following microapplication. The action of various inhibitors was tested to define the receptors involved. The contractile response could be blocked by alpha-receptor as well as serotonin receptor antagonists. The mode of inhibition suggested that serotonin receptors rather than alpha-adrenoceptors mediated the dopamine-induced contraction. A dose-dependent dilation could be evoked by the dopaminergic agonists on actively contracting pial arteries in vitro and by apomorphine in situ. The relative potency for the agonists together with blocking experiments indicated that the vasodilation was mediated by specific dopamine receptors.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on August 07, 2011, 11:24:35 AM
Btw, forgot to say. I tried having 2 - 3 O's after taking 150mg in Niacin Acid tablets and had no POIS after that. Seems effect of niacin lasts for many hours.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on August 07, 2011, 12:12:18 PM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/676925

Quote
The vasomotor response of dopamine and dopaminergic agonists was studies on feline isolated middle cerebral arteries in vitro and pial arterioles in situ following microapplication. The action of various inhibitors was tested to define the receptors involved. The contractile response could be blocked by alpha-receptor as well as serotonin receptor antagonists. The mode of inhibition suggested that serotonin receptors rather than alpha-adrenoceptors mediated the dopamine-induced contraction. A dose-dependent dilation could be evoked by the dopaminergic agonists on actively contracting pial arteries in vitro and by apomorphine in situ. The relative potency for the agonists together with blocking experiments indicated that the vasodilation was mediated by specific dopamine receptors.



OK, let's talk about this. First of all clarify what all of this means, and what the implication might be in the identification of an abnormal condition particularly as what might be exposed by the positive responses in taking XN and or Niacin.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on August 07, 2011, 04:27:34 PM
Btw, forgot to say. I tried having 2 - 3 O's after taking 150mg in Niacin Acid tablets and had no POIS after that. Seems effect of niacin lasts for many hours.

Victor

Victor, would you mind to answer me some questions, they are very important for me.

Have you changed your diet since you know you have POIS?

Do you feel a worsening of POIS symptoms when you take foods with high glycemic index(Sugars, red meat, creams, desserts...)?

If the answer is yes; if you take foods like this(with high levels) before taking Niacin and having an Orgasm, do you develop symptoms? I ask you that because i have noted that if i have eaten a big salad, fruits, and then i took fenugreek prior having an orgasm, i will develop less POIS symptoms than if i take meat, desserts and then fenugreek...

The last question: You take your nicotinic acid pills, you have the flush, and you have the orgasm 1-2-3 hours later. It doesn´t matter if you eat a lot of desserts after that, that you´re going to not have POS because you have fully eliminated the symptoms?

Thank you very much!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: JRD on August 08, 2011, 02:52:34 AM
Daveman, hard to tell.

Some specific forms of Niacin are sometimes prescribed as a dopamine "boosters" in Parkinsonian patients, moreover, Niacin seems to be helpful in treatment of many conditions, especially the mental ones (depression, schizophrenia, addictions etc.).

The widening of blood vessels caused by Niacin may be just a part of its complex functioning and not necessarily the key one in alleviation of POIS symptoms.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on August 08, 2011, 06:57:58 AM
Victor, would you mind to answer me some questions, they are very important for me.

Have you changed your diet since you know you have POIS?

Do you feel a worsening of POIS symptoms when you take foods with high glycemic index(Sugars, red meat, creams, desserts...)?

If the answer is yes; if you take foods like this(with high levels) before taking Niacin and having an Orgasm, do you develop symptoms? I ask you that because i have noted that if i have eaten a big salad, fruits, and then i took fenugreek prior having an orgasm, i will develop less POIS symptoms than if i take meat, desserts and then fenugreek...

The last question: You take your nicotinic acid pills, you have the flush, and you have the orgasm 1-2-3 hours later. It doesn´t matter if you eat a lot of desserts after that, that you´re going to not have POS because you have fully eliminated the symptoms?

Thank you very much!
Hi Observer.

The short answer to your questions is: I don't limit my food in any way and I didn't change my diet. I remember that I had observed influence of food to POIS before, but in my current state it seems very very minor influence and I stopped noticed it.

When I take nicotinic acid pills and have an O 1-2-3 hours later it doesn't matter what I eat. I have no POIS, at all. Well, I feel a bit disturbed maybe after having an O, but I hardly can call it POIS, maybe 5% of POIS, or maybe no POIS at all, its too minor.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Egordon on August 09, 2011, 12:01:33 AM
Hey All,

Your experiments are DEEPLY appreciated! Could you do us a huge favor, though, and try to mention (or link to) the brand of niacin/nicotinic acid/etc that you are using? It would be a huge help!

Thanks!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on August 09, 2011, 12:06:43 AM
Guys,

Quote from KingKong from the other Forum which is Very Relevant here....


Quote from: Kingkong on Today at 01:48:45
I'M reading each of you since almost 2 1/2 years from now. I'M 51 years old and I'M a pois sufferer since 12 years now. But like some of you, I tried NIACIN recently and the result are very very good for me.

1) The day of O, I'M taking 300 mg 30 minutes before O.
2) If I don't sleep about one hour after O, I'M 50-60% POIS free, IF I sleep for maximum 1 hour after O' when I wake up, Im 90% free.
3) The day after O (day 1), I'm taking 100 mg when I wake up in the morning. During the day, I take other 100 mg when I feel that POIS is coming back. I can take maximum 900 mg the day of O and maximum 500 mg the day after.
4) Day 2, I'M taking 100 mg in the morning, an another 100 mg in the afternoon and I'M still 90 % POIS free.
5) Day 3, 100 mg and I'M 95% POIS free.
6) DAy 4, 100 mg, 100% POIS free.
I must say that I'M very happy whith this result and my girl friend too!

Demografx, I didn't receive your mail that every one must receive from you. Tank you.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on August 09, 2011, 07:13:56 AM
Thank you jivetalk.

Yes, there are some interesting things going on with Niacin, and also, it's important to note that there are ways to optimize it's effects, with subtle application of the Niacin. I copy here your follow-up post from NSF that include a more extensive conversation over the subject.

Thanks again.

Quote from: jivetalk
Quote from: victor.kons
Quote from: jivetalk
Quote from: victor.kons
Quote from: Kingkong
I'M reading each of you since almost 2 1/2 years from now. I'M 51 years old and I'M a pois sufferer since 12 years now. But like some of you, I tried NIACIN recently and the result are very very good for me.

1) The day of O, I'M taking 300 mg 30 minutes before O.
2) If I don't sleep about one hour after O, I'M 50-60% POIS free, IF I sleep for maximum 1 hour after O' when I wake up, Im 90% free.
3) The day after O (day 1), I'm taking 100 mg when I wake up in the morning. During the day, I take other 100 mg when I feel that POIS is coming back. I can take maximum 900 mg the day of O and maximum 500 mg the day after.
4) Day 2, I'M taking 100 mg in the morning, an another 100 mg in the afternoon and I'M still 90 % POIS free.
5) Day 3, 100 mg and I'M 95% POIS free.
6) DAy 4, 100 mg, 100% POIS free.
I must say that I'M very happy whith this result and my girl friend too!

Demografx, I didn't receive your mail that every one must receive from you. Tank you.
Hi Kingkong,

Thank you for your report! I'm glad that Niacin helps you too.

From what you write it looks like you are taking too much Niacin after O, whereas the point is to take the minimum _necessary_ dose of Niacin _prior_ to O so that you don't have to take any Niacin after O, because taking Niacin after O has far less effect. You said that you wait 30 minutes, sounds like too short time before O. After taking niacin pills we usually wait 60 minutes, you should feel the flush and let it starting go away before you have the O.

Victor

Hi Victor, As you know I've been taking 300mg for a little while now - and I can barely feel the Flush anymore if I take it at night (after dinner). (I can feel it if I take it on an empty stomach in the morning)

When you take 150mg especially after food - Do you still feel the Flush at all? or do you Just time it, and ensure that you O at least 60 minutes after Niacin?
I still feel some flush, but it is much less stronger than before. And I ensure that I have first O at least 60 minutes after Niacin.

Victor

Thanks Victor

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on August 09, 2011, 07:33:44 AM
So a summary:

A good, but not excessive flush must appear and begin to subside before you have the orgasm.

The more you take the more you need to cause the flush with time. If a fixed dose is taken, enough to cause the flush, and that dose is taken regularly, after a fairly short period of time, it will require more to cause the flush.

Taking Niacin only after the orgasm doesn't work. Taking it after the orgasm does seem to help reduce the symptoms, but only if it was also taken before the orgasm. But if properly taken before the orgasm to produce a good flush and waiting for the flush to begin to subside, much less should be required after.

Remember, the more you take, the less effect it will have, or the more you will need in the long run.

It may be necesary to keep Niacin cycles down a little so as not to be taking a lot of Niacin, which lowers the flsuh threshold.

What that means is: One proper does of Niacin, can allow several orgasms, protecting against POIS for about 6 hours.
But if one has one or two orgasms per day, this would mean taking Niacin every day. Taking Niacin every day will lower the flush threshold, requiring that you take more.

This could progress to where you are taking large doses of Niacin, and potentially to where 1) Niacin no longer helps, and/or 2) liver damage results.

So it's much better to limit yourself to GOOD sex 2 or 3 times per week MAX, than to get to where Niacin doesn't even work and you have to replace your liver.


Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Ccconfucius on August 10, 2011, 01:39:36 PM
I dont know who brought this up but somebody just said niacin helps their other allegy.
this supports the allergy theory of niacin. it uses up the histamine necessary to cause allergic reaction from orgasm.

i wonder if there are other allergy sufferers who have the same experience.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Guthrie on August 10, 2011, 07:32:49 PM
this supports the allergy theory of niacin. it uses up the histamine necessary to cause allergic reaction from orgasm.

Check this out:
(from: http://www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T120793.html )

Quote
Niacin, taken orally as nicotinic acid, can produce redness, warmth, and itching over areas of the skin; this "niacin flush" usually occurs when doses of 50mg or more are taken and is a result of the release of histamine by the cells, which causes vasodilation. This reaction is harmless; it may even be helpful by enhancing blood flow to the "flushed" areas, and it lasts only 10-20 minutes. When these larger doses of niacin are taken regularly, this reaction no longer occurs because stores of histamine are reduced.

So, it may be that it is OK to take niacin regularly--that is, even if you build up tolerance so that it no longer causes a flush, it might still be able to prevent POIS because it is still 'using up' the histamine.

But, I guess we'd have to test that -- someone for whom niacin helps their POIS would need to try taking the niacin on a regular basis (i.e. every day, rather than only on O-days), and see if the helping-effect is diminished by the regular-basis ingestion, or whether the helping-effect is still preserved.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on August 11, 2011, 08:21:56 AM
It's my impression that the flush, and particularly the histamine release is required, but we could try this. As you say, if all the histamine is "used up", this may be all that's required.

BTW I understand that the flush and the histamine release are two different things. The flush my instigate the histamine release, but does not guarantee it. The flush produces the conditions where the histamine release mechanism can activate.

Anyways we should have a couple of people taking a dose close to the flush barrier. They shouldn't reduce their dose to try to test this theory, but should let their system raise the flush barrier. With time and regular dosage this will happen automatically. Or to speed it up, they could take the same dosage that they are now taking but a couple of times more per day, spaced out throughout the day. This way the same dosage before orgasm won't produce the flush.

And we can see then if POIS is still "short-curcuited" or not. Orgasm frequency shouldn't be changed in this period.

This test should be done with someone who already has a stable positive niacin reaction against POIS.

I wonder why though we would go this route, when the idea is to try to keep the niacin ingestion to a minimum? Regular and increased doses, always have the risk of damaging the liver.

I suppose one answer to this question may be that it may be inevitable that the flush threshold will rise with time, and higher and higer doses will be required. So if we can function below the flush threshold with continued POIS relief we can avoid taking more and more to maintain the flush.

However it may be healthier to maintain orgasm frequency below a certain level, so as not to overwork the system. 2 or 3 per week is still MUCH better than once every 4 to 6 wks.

I think we may all agree as well, that niacin MAY not be a cure and is only a temporary solution until we find the cure. HOPEFULLY, the niacin effect will also lead us to understanding the cure.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on August 12, 2011, 02:20:59 AM
It's my impression that the flush, and particularly the histamine release is required, but we could try this. As you say, if all the histamine is "used up", this may be all that's required.

BTW I understand that the flush and the histamine release are two different things. The flush my instigate the histamine release, but does not guarantee it. The flush produces the conditions where the histamine release mechanism can activate.

Anyways we should have a couple of people taking a dose close to the flush barrier. They shouldn't reduce their dose to try to test this theory, but should let their system raise the flush barrier. With time and regular dosage this will happen automatically. Or to speed it up, they could take the same dosage that they are now taking but a couple of times more per day, spaced out throughout the day. This way the same dosage before orgasm won't produce the flush.

And we can see then if POIS is still "short-curcuited" or not. Orgasm frequency shouldn't be changed in this period.

This test should be done with someone who already has a stable positive niacin reaction against POIS.

I wonder why though we would go this route, when the idea is to try to keep the niacin ingestion to a minimum? Regular and increased doses, always have the risk of damaging the liver.

I suppose one answer to this question may be that it may be inevitable that the flush threshold will rise with time, and higher and higer doses will be required. So if we can function below the flush threshold with continued POIS relief we can avoid taking more and more to maintain the flush.

However it may be healthier to maintain orgasm frequency below a certain level, so as not to overwork the system. 2 or 3 per week is still MUCH better than once every 4 to 6 wks.

I think we may all agree as well, that niacin MAY not be a cure and is only a temporary solution until we find the cure. HOPEFULLY, the niacin effect will also lead us to understanding the cure.

To  be short, I was on uncontrolled XN take more than a year now, with 4-6 O's per week in a batches of 2-3 O's per day and I NEVER had to increase my dose of XN. I think the same is true to pure Niacin. So, I would just didn't worried about that. What makes me wonder now, really really wonder is the question: are there ANY POISers out there that don't feel any relief after taking the Niacin. If all POISers have the relief from Niacin, it must have very strong relation to a cure then. Note, that I'm talking only about taking of Niacin before O. After O it MIGHT be useless.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on August 14, 2011, 07:00:40 AM
A text about Niacin:
 TOURETTE SYNDROME, ALLERGY
         AND THE B6 DEPENDENCY STATE

I have my Bachelor's degree in Biology, specializing in Medical
Technology, and in graduate school, I took graduate courses in
biochemistry.  I work as a medical technologist performing and
verifying clinical laboratory tests in Chemistry, Hematology and
Blood Bank at Mt.Carmel East Medical Center in Columbus, Ohio.
I do not have TS but my son, Jason (13 yrs old) has TS with OCD.
ADD has not been formally diagnosed, although he has problems
with organization, distractibility, and the ability to switch gears.
My son has had allergies since he was a baby.  He
is sensitive to red dye #40 with tired splitting headaches which
make him scream until he is exhausted and sleeps.  This, of course,
hasn't happened in several years since he has avoided the dye.
He also is allergic to sulfa, molds, dust, grass, trees, and most airborn
allergens.  He has been on the vitamins below for 1.5 months and the
teachers
have said that he is a different kid.  Medications that he had been
on made him progressively worse, and so we made a personal decision
to discontinue meds altogether.  He now is motivated in school,
concentrates
and finishes his work, and is less disruptive with his tics in class.  At
home he still has his tics and compulsions, but they are shorter lived
and occur less often.  He has had a set back this week due to a new
semester with a new schedule, plus a very moldy, rainy few days.  We
gave him a little extra calcium-magnesium and one extra vitamin B3.
He said that this gave him relief from his symptoms (he has never
said this before with anything else).

I solidified my theory on the premise that Jason
is probably mildly vitamin B6 dependent.  He was either born requiring
high amounts of B6, and/or B6 antagonists attacked early in his first year
of life.  B6 antagonists are hydrazines (plant growth regulators,
tartrazine,
etc), DOPA found in certain beans, penicillinamine, antioxidants in
petroleum, many drugs including penicillin, erythromycin, phenobarbital,
tetracycline, corticosteroids, sulfamethoxazole, etc.   Amino acids began
building up in his system, from decreased transamination, etc.
Serotonin became decreased from tryptophan not being able to
be utilized. Allergies developed (which is in association with low B6),
I believe allergy produces swings in histamine levels which causes
a constant fluctuation in neurotransmitters capable of producing mood
swings and rages. The conservation of vitamin B6 (when not abundantly
available) causes it to be used by the prevailing neurotransmitter system
at any given time, leaving other neurotransmitter systems less than
optimally functional.  Histamine receptors have been found to trigger
dopamine receptors directly.
Histamine is also a neurotransmitter affected by deficient vitamin B6.
Its
receptor sites are probably increased to compensate.  Kinins released
into the body's tissues in response to immune complexes can damage
the blood brain barrier, thus altering the sensitivity of brain cells to
acetylcholine, serotonin, dopamine, histamine, epineprine and
norepineprine.

I found that L-dopa doesn't readily form dopamine in B6 deficiency,
so probably dopamine is reduced causing an increase in
dopamine receptor sites along with an increase the norepinephrine
and epinephrine (which are formed from dopamine) receptors sites.
These increased receptor sites make the nerves more excitable and
false transmitters or true neurotransmitters can set them off with
explosive qualities.   These false transmitters can
be phenolic substances, such as food additives, drugs, etc. 
The enzyme, phenol sulfotransferase (PST), detoxifies and eliminates
phenolics (drugs, food additives, serotonin, dopamine (to name a few). 
In the brain, sulfation is used while glucuronidation prevails elsewhere.
Cysteine requires B6 to enzymatically release sulfur for sulfation of
these phenols by PST.  Considering this, the neurotransmitters would
would be conserved to a certain extent (their sulfation and elimination
would be slowed down).  ADD may happen when these false transmitters
create background "noise", and if there is a real message to get through
via other neurons, it is masked.  When a true message is fired, it may
have too strong of a signal, creating a strong impulsion, which can lead
to the development of a tic or compulsion if the impulsion is acted upon
and repeated creating a sort of conditioned reflex network of nerves.
Mental, motor, and vocal tics can develop this way.

According to my_ Biochemistry_ by Lehninger textbook
from my graduate student in Biology days, tryptophan is broken down
in Vitamin B3 deficiency to make nicotinic acid.  Tryptophan is
found in meat and is plentiful, if you are a meat eater. Tryptophan
is the precursor for serotonin.  I also looked up Vitamin B3 and
how it could be connected to the issues of allergy
and serotonin defiency in the brain.  I found that Vitamin B3 is used
to make NAD, NADP, which are coenzymes used in making
histamine and serotonin (to name a few), and are essential in
oxidative-reductive cellular metabolism.  The B3 is needed due to
tryptophan's inability to be broken down to nicotinic acid without
adequate B6. 

So, if Vitamins B3 and B6 are being used for histamine production, then
serotonin production suffers.  Tryptophan then must be used in
a higher frequency to make nicotinic acid.  In Vitamin B6
deficiency, this cannot happen, because the enzyme kynurinase,
that catalyzes the cleavage of 3 hydroxykynurine
(an intermediate in tryptophan catabolism),
contains pyridoxal phosphate (an active coenzyme form of Vitamin B6).
In Vitamin B6 deficiency, large amounts of L-kynurenine are excreted
in the urine, because of its high plasma levels.
This is described in "Elevated plasma kynurenine in
Tourette syndrome", _Molecular & Chemical Neuropathology_21(1):
55-60,1994 Jan.   Kynurenine itself is metabolised to other
substances, several of which are known to have effects on
neurones. (per a research study done at University College
London Medical School  Harlow, England by Sheila L. Handley,
BPharm, Ph.D. 1994)  Large amounts of tryptophan which is broken down
to ineffectively try to produce nicotinic acid reduces the amount of
serotonin produced.   Ineffective tryptophan utilization
also uses alot of oxygen with tryptophan 2,3-dioxygenase. 
Low serotonin levels could cause obsessive compulsive behaviour,
depression, and other mood related disorders. 

B6 is also required for the decarboxylase step of
serotonin, histamine, and catecholamine pathways in the brain.
In low B6, conservation takes place, so that B6 is used for fewer
enzymes.  When allergy strikes, the production of histamine causes
a further imbalance of neurotransmitters, causing serotonin and/or
catecholamine production to be further depleted. 


Sherry A Rogers, M.D., a specialist in environmental medicine,
reports that all of the TS cases she has seen have a least one
nutrient deficiency, and usually several.  And she notes that all
of these patients have hidden mold, dust, chemical and food
sensitivities. ("Tourette Syndrome", _Health Counselor_, Vol.7, No.4)

Acetylcholine is produced by acetyl CoA and choline.
The choline is supplied through lecithin in Jason's supplements.
In vitamin B6 deficiency, acetyl CoA would be made by
fatty acid oxidation.  So acetycholine could be functional
with an adequate supply of fatty acids (evening primrose oil or flax
oil might be useful).
Acetylcholine could be in shorter supply in the parasympathetic
system (relaxation) due to overuse in the sympathetic system where
norepinephrine usually rules. The parasympathetic nervous system would
need to have more acetylcholine in TS and associated disorders, it seems.
Relaxation through the parasympathetic nervous system (which uses
acetylcholine), where the heart rate is slowed, the blood pressure is
lowered, the food is digested well, etc. is difficult in TS.

Acetylcholine is probably overactive in the sympathetic autonomic
nervous system, trying to stimulate the low supply of catecholamines,
which would be decreased due to B6 deficiency/dependency.
The receptors sites for catecholamines would be hyperexcitable
and  increased in number.  The net usage of catecholamines could
be normal to decreased due to increased stimulation by acetylcholine,
depending on the availability of B6 in the body, and the conservation by
low
sulfation by PST.

Conditions of emotional stress are known to produce more ticcing in TS.
In short term stress, norepineprine, dopamine, and epineprine should
be able to be produced by the conservation tactics of the body, but in
long term stress, these would be exhausted, especially when another
B6 dependent system is triggered.  Likewise, the same would happen
when histamine and serotonin are produced in short term and long term
allergy.  But as you might expect, the short term conditions
would be explosive events with all of those increased receptor sites!

Acetylcholine is also involved in the contraction of
voluntary muscle cells and many other motor nerves, which are
in heavy use in TS.   Many people with TS are helped by
exercise, where cardiac output and increased body temperature
over a period of time inhibit the sympathetic nervous system.  It
may also help to clear toxic waste, such as kynurenine.

Adequate water intake would be required to catabolize
acetylcholine by cholinesterase.  In my opinion
acetylcholine is needed in B6 deficiency/dependency to run
the nervous system. Fatty acids are essential to its success
in this situation.  Fatty acids require NADPH2, and NADH2
for their synthesis, and thus Vitamin B3. Water is also an utmost
requirement in keeping acetylcholine from becoming a continuous
firecracker.  Jason has a water bottle close by most times and
drinks tons of water.  Water has always calmed him down. It may
also dilute the kynurenine, excess amino acids and promote their
 excretion.

If you look at the material written on the Canadian Mennonite families
that
have been studied with
Tourette's disorder, you will see a high frequency of autoimmune and rare
conditions. These findings are consistent with what one can expect with
other
Tourette's patients. For example, there is a high frequency of allergic
conditions.

My informal survey of TS and allergy results from the online TS support
 group are:

With a total of 25 respondents with TS:

              96% have allergies  (24 out of 25)
               56% have mold allergies
           
                                       
              72% have obsessive complulsive traits (18 out of 25)
               67% of those with obsessive compulsive traits
                               have mold allergies

3 respondents thought they may have mold allergies, but
weren't sure

              52% have pollen allergies (ragweed, grass, tree, etc)
               56% of those with obsessive compulsive traits have pollen
                      allergy

              48 % have animal allergies (cats, dogs, horse)
               39% of those with obsessive compulsive traits have animal
                      allergies

              40% have dust allergy
              39% of those with obsessive compulsive traits have dust
                        allergy

              20% have penicillin allergy
              28 % of those with obsessive compulsive traits have
                     penicillin allergy

                20 % have miscellaneous allergies
                 11% of those with obsessive compulsive traits have
                          miscellaneous allergies

              16 % have food allergies
                22 % of those with obsessive complulsive traits have
                        food allergies
             
                8% have sulfa allergy
                11% of those with obsessive compulsive traits have
                           sulfa allergy
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on August 16, 2011, 07:46:18 AM
Does anybody know where we could find Niacin in a drugstore or on a trustful website? I have seen the Australian link but it is pretty far  ;D
I live in France and they don t sell it in a drugstore ! It would be great to be supplied in Europe so, many thanks!  :)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on August 16, 2011, 01:23:32 PM
Starsky, Starsky, Starsky!!!!

WOW, very good if not rather dense for us less educated in this area. I would like to open a thread with your post here as the lead in post! I would like to discuss this and clarify it more for the more lay-people of us. Wonderful write up and I think starting from there we may even find serious advance in our quest to cure POIS.

It relates to this thread, so I'll leave it here, but as i said, I feel it also deserves a thread in itself for further more dedicated discusson.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Jon on August 16, 2011, 02:36:14 PM
Hey guys, I took Niacin for the first time yesterday and took it twice, once int he morning and once at night. I took 200mg and didnt feel much so at night I took about 400mg. I didnt feel much more than a little tingling and waited until it subsided to have an orgasm. It did not prevent my POIS. I dont know if I didnt take enough or its sumply not working but 400 mg seems like a lot for the first day. Any thoughts on what I might be doing wrong?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on August 16, 2011, 02:49:58 PM
Did you take the "fast release Niacin version"?? I only tried the slow one and i was upset too ! Try to find the faster version (and give me a link if you find before me !  :P thanks)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on August 18, 2011, 02:04:11 AM
Hey guys, I took Niacin for the first time yesterday and took it twice, once int he morning and once at night. I took 200mg and didnt feel much so at night I took about 400mg. I didnt feel much more than a little tingling and waited until it subsided to have an orgasm. It did not prevent my POIS. I dont know if I didnt take enough or its sumply not working but 400 mg seems like a lot for the first day. Any thoughts on what I might be doing wrong?

Seems having a flush is a good indicator that you are doing everything right. No flush - means something wrong. I would say that at least for beginning one MUST seek for the flush with Niacin.

I say for the beginning, because when I do XN injections of 0.5 ml I feel very very light flush if feel flush at all, still the injections help me. But at the beginning I felt the flush, not very strong too, but much much stronger than now.

Right now I'm combining XN injections and pure Niacin Acid pills. I take the pills when I can wait for the sex and I do the injection when I don't want to wait. And seems injections and pills live in peace with each other

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Vincent M on August 18, 2011, 06:14:40 PM
It did not prevent my POIS. I dont know if I didnt take enough or its sumply not working but 400 mg seems like a lot for the first day. Any thoughts on what I might be doing wrong?

Did you take it about an hour before orgasm and on an empty stomach?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Jon on August 18, 2011, 10:53:30 PM
Yes I did. I guess i'll try taking more but 400 seemed like a lot for the first day.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on August 19, 2011, 07:44:29 AM
Yes I did. I guess i'll try taking more but 400 seemed like a lot for the first day.

Hi Jon,

Do the pills you are taking have 'Nicotinic Acic' as the main ingredient? Any other Variant of Niacin (apart from Xanthinol Nicotinate) has not yet been tried, and is usually related to 'non flush' Niacin. 400mg is definitely a Lot for the first try on an empty stomach, and you should be feeling it it pretty heavily with that much dosage. Also, an Extended Release type of Niacin - we believe at this stage may not be as effective or effective at all against POIS.

So Main Points

1. Ensure that it is Flush Type of Niacin (Nicotinic Acid)
2. Ensure that it is not Extended Release Niacin
3. Only Take it 1 Hour Prior to Orgasm (not prior, as this may build up your resistance)
4. Initially try on an Empty Stomach
5. Ensure you have a Flush, let it pass then O (this usually happens within the hour)
6. 400mg should be PLENTY
7. Please take care with experimentation and consult with your doctor, especially if taking any other meds, or if you have any previous ailments


Found a nice article about Niacin and Flush here

http://www.doctoryourself.com/niacin.html

JT
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on August 19, 2011, 07:48:03 AM
Adding a Post from the Other Forum from 'HURRAY' here.......

Very encouraging results. I am sincerely hoping Niacin helps 80-100% of sufferers in some form.


"I was a little reluctant to post with incomplete results, but I have tried niacin (250mg) before O twice now, and it does a lot to alleviate my symptoms. For now, the 250mg seems to be enough to give me the flush. I would say that compared to nothing, it reduces my symptoms (mostly cognitive brain fog) by about 60-70%.

So far I have only tried it on its own - normally, I would take a dose of fenugreek before and after O. It will be interesting to try niacin in combination with fenugreek, and I will do this at some point, but I thought it would be more "scientific" to let niacin do its work without any assistance.

So, mark up another success for niacin! I hope it proves effective in the long-term as well as the short-term." HURRAY
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on August 19, 2011, 07:50:27 AM
From the article

http://www.doctoryourself.com/niacin.html

" If you want a flush right away, you can powder the niacin tablet. This is easily done by crushing it between two spoons. Powdered niacin on an empty stomach can result in a flush within minutes. Sustained release niacin is often advertised as not causing a flush at all. This claim may not be completely true; sometimes the flush is just postponed. It would probably be difficult to determine your saturation level with a sustained- or time-released product.  They are also more costly. But the biggest reason to avoid sustained-release niacin is that most reports of side effects stem from use of that form. ".............

Interesting...Might have to try this.

JT
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on August 19, 2011, 08:02:59 AM
Hi All,

I've received a few PM's now asking what Brand of Niacin I use and where I purchased it from. I quite literally after hearing of Victor's success with XN, and not being able to find XN - Went to my local Vitamin store and grabbed the first Nicotinic Acid Pills I could. Luckily it turns out, it seems to be working for me. Anyway - Here is the brand I use, and I have found a website in Australia which ships internationally....

http://www.fourbody.com.au/thompsons-vit-b3-niacin.html

I have not used this site and so cannot personally vouch for them yet, but they seem pretty legitimate and checkout okay.

JT
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: B_Daniel on August 19, 2011, 06:38:36 PM
I don't have anything ground-breaking to report, just more confirmation of XN.  I have been taking XN now for the last few weeks.  I take 1.5 (150mg) pills an hour before the O and let the flush fully subside before the O.  The results are quite good.  In fact, I can have 3 O's within the few hours after taking XN, and only get minor pois after.  I always take it on an empty stomach, bc I won't get the flush if not. 

Im not sensitive enough with my pois to know exactly how well the XN is working.  What I mean by that is that I know that an hour after my O, when I should start feeling miserable, I feel great.  It's just that 1 or 2 days later, a bit more pois begins to kick in.  I can't exactly quantify how much kicks in or when, I just know that at least a little bit creeps back.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: B_Daniel on August 19, 2011, 07:59:08 PM
One thing to report.... I took Niacin 5 hrs ago and just had an O.  Not a good idea.  It didnt last that long.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on August 20, 2011, 02:29:06 PM
I will test Xanthinol Nicotinate (Strong version of niacin) 150 mg pill in 2 days, another member for the statistics  :)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Vincent M on August 20, 2011, 09:34:38 PM
I got my niacin pills today. I took one 100mg pill 30 min ago, but still haven't felt anything...well maybe i feel a tad warm right now but could be my imagination or just the temp outside. Unfortunately I had dinner about half an hour before i took the pill, but I'll still have an "o" to test it and I'll report back whether it worked or not.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: kk on August 21, 2011, 12:44:21 AM
Hey there guys. New to the forum, but I've been lurking the nakedscientist thread for about a year now. Suffer mostly cognitive symptoms.

Thought I'd share my experience with Niacin so far. Bought some at Rite-Aid here in California about 2 weeks ago. It was just labeled "Niacin", and it was pretty cheap - $3 for a hundred 100mg tablets. The slow-release stuff was 3 times more.

First try: took 300mg about an hour after dinner. No flush, but I felt it still had an effect on my POIS. I'd say about 70-90% POIS the next day (maybe just placebo?).

Second try, 3 days later: 300mg 3 hours after dinner. This time I DID get a flush, but it wasn't until ~2.5 hours after I took the Niacin. By then I had already O'd. Same results as last time, BUT by the 4th day I felt almost back to normal. Usually the 3rd and 4th days are the worst for me, and it's not until the 5th or 6th day I start returning to normal, but this time I seemed to be recovering more quickly. Placebo again?  :-\

Third try: 500mg ~12 hours after dinner. Definitely felt the flush  :o. Lasted about 10 minutes. Had an O soon after flush subsided. 30-40% POIS upon waking up the next day. Days 2 & 3 were even better.

Fourth try: 300mg ~12 hours after dinner. Same results as third try. I'm currently on day 2 and feel pretty good. Maybe 20% POIS. It really does seem like an improvement. Usually my POIS lasts 5-7 days, and is at its worst on day 3/4.

I'm gonna take a break until Tuesday so my body doesn't get used to the Niacin flush, but...so far the it seems to be working  :o. Hopefully it keeps up  8). Anyway, i'll keep you guys updated.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on August 21, 2011, 08:08:41 AM
As you saw kk, the closer to dinner or heavier eating and the less the flush. Also the less the effect on POIS.

Best time to have orgasm is within an hour of taking the Niacin, but you have up to 5 hrs or so.

So good tests, they confirm most of our suspicions.

I think the most positive effect, even if the symptoms IN POIS themselves may not be reduced by a large percentage, is that the session is made shorter.

This in itself is a great advantage.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: B_Daniel on August 21, 2011, 10:02:55 AM
kk -

That is reallllly helpful information!  We've been speculating about the full stomach/ weak results thing but it's good to get more evidence of that through you. 

I've still got a whole bunch of outstanding Niacin quesions:

One thing I've been hypothesizing, and which your post helped me to recall, kk, is that - And tell me if this is crazy - but taking Niacin and having an O a few days in a row seems to reduce my POIS by a little more every day.  Now intuitively you'd think the opposite.  You'd think stringing 4 O's, 4 days in a row would completely shut me down, lights out. But 4 days, 4 times Niacin, 4 O's, and I'll start to feel really good.

So then if that's the case, i wonder whether I'd be feeling as good had I had (1) O, and then taken Niacin for 4 days after, or if having that O helps somehow?

Next question of mine is whether the flush is necessary.  Here's the thought process.  We eat.  Then take B3.  Then O.  Reduced Results?  It seems that way.  BUT, Every time somebody has taken niacin on a full stomach, it was their first couple times trying Niacin.  And maybe it works better after a few times in a row?  OR on the other hand, as we've all been guessing already, it could not work as well because A) niacin doesnt absorb as quickly on the full stomach or B) We don't get the flush.  B is really A too, but A is not B, if you follow.
 
So ppl keep reporting your results! 
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: B_Daniel on August 21, 2011, 10:11:55 AM
Victor-

It seems like a lot of us are speculating what features of Niacin makes this all work.  I don't really understand the back and forth on the main forum about it, but ppl are talking about niacin synthesizing into tryptophan, B3 in semen, B6, serotonin, melatonin, etc...

If Olga prescribed this to you, wouldn't she know exactly what properties of Niacin are helping us?  Maybe she just guessed and got lucky, but I doubt it!  I wish you could just e-mail her but you've said she prob doesn't know how to turn on a computer.  A quick phone call could be helpful though  :-*  That smiley kiss face is the closest smiley I could find to representing "pretty please".  That's all it means though so don't get any ideas guys!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on August 21, 2011, 11:50:50 AM
kk -

That is reallllly helpful information!  We've been speculating about the full stomach/ weak results thing but it's good to get more evidence of that through you. 

I've still got a whole bunch of outstanding Niacin quesions:

One thing I've been hypothesizing, and which your post helped me to recall, kk, is that - And tell me if this is crazy - but taking Niacin and having an O a few days in a row seems to reduce my POIS by a little more every day.  Now intuitively you'd think the opposite.  You'd think stringing 4 O's, 4 days in a row would completely shut me down, lights out. But 4 days, 4 times Niacin, 4 O's, and I'll start to feel really good.

So then if that's the case, i wonder whether I'd be feeling as good had I had (1) O, and then taken Niacin for 4 days after, or if having that O helps somehow?

Next question of mine is whether the flush is necessary.  Here's the thought process.  We eat.  Then take B3.  Then O.  Reduced Results?  It seems that way.  BUT, Every time somebody has taken niacin on a full stomach, it was their first couple times trying Niacin.  And maybe it works better after a few times in a row?  OR on the other hand, as we've all been guessing already, it could not work as well because A) niacin doesnt absorb as quickly on the full stomach or B) We don't get the flush.  B is really A too, but A is not B, if you follow.
 
So ppl keep reporting your results! 

As far as the full stomach, I saw a couple of places on internet, I don't have the links right now, that eating before taking the Niacin reduces the flsuh. This was advice for those who don't seek the flush, which is the case for most Niacin users. Even doctors will recommend things, like taking asperin beforehand or taking it on a full stomach to reduce the flush.

There still might be a doubt as to whether the flush is required / helpful. I understood that it IS better with the flush....

Reading the post that Starsky made, I'm thinking that getting the flush assures you that there is a sufficient dose enough to assure adequate B3 in the system to manage histmaine /serotonine/ dopamine production also required after orgasm.


Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: B_Daniel on August 21, 2011, 06:04:07 PM

As far as the full stomach, I saw a couple of places on internet, I don't have the links right now, that eating before taking the Niacin reduces the flsuh. This was advice for those who don't seek the flush, which is the case for most Niacin users. Even doctors will recommend things, like taking asperin beforehand or taking it on a full stomach to reduce the flush.

There still might be a doubt as to whether the flush is required / helpful. I understood that it IS better with the flush....

Reading the post that Starsky made, I'm thinking that getting the flush assures you that there is a sufficient dose enough to assure adequate B3 in the system to manage histmaine /serotonine/ dopamine production also required after orgasm.


So a full stomach reduces/eliminates the flush.  Also, taking Niacin everyday, even on an empty stomach, eliminates the flush.  But maybe the latter event still is effective at reducing POIS, whereas the former event we believe is mostly ineffective.   
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on August 21, 2011, 07:37:59 PM
Hi all,

Some very very interesting articles on Niacin, How much you can take, finding the flush threshold, and Niacin being used to cure other diseases.

http://www.doctoryourself.com/niacin.html

http://www.doctoryourself.com/review_hoffer_B3.html

http://www.doctoryourself.com/hoffer_niacin.html

I tried this bit of advice the other night....."If you want a flush right away, you can powder the niacin tablet. " ....... This was about 3 hours after a heavy meal. Within about 5-10 Minutes I was flushing! I did take 300mg of powdered Niacin (crushed with a spoon).

Victor - Perhaps this is an alternative to using XN injections if we are able to have the flush appear so soon?. . What do you think?

JT
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on August 21, 2011, 07:40:15 PM
KK,

Thank you very much for your detailed reporting. It is really appreciated that you add to our groups 'knowledge' and results of this.
I hope very much that your positive results continue. I look forward to more reports.

JT.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on August 22, 2011, 03:40:25 AM
Hi all,

Some very very interesting articles on Niacin, How much you can take, finding the flush threshold, and Niacin being used to cure other diseases.

http://www.doctoryourself.com/niacin.html

http://www.doctoryourself.com/review_hoffer_B3.html

http://www.doctoryourself.com/hoffer_niacin.html

I tried this bit of advice the other night....."If you want a flush right away, you can powder the niacin tablet. " ....... This was about 3 hours after a heavy meal. Within about 5-10 Minutes I was flushing! I did take 300mg of powdered Niacin (crushed with a spoon).

Victor - Perhaps this is an alternative to using XN injections if we are able to have the flush appear so soon?. . What do you think?
To be fair I can't stop thinking about this :) I think we should try this for sure! Especially the people that tried taking Niacin already and don't have 100% reduce of POIS symptoms should try the same dose they took but with powdered Niacin and see whether there will be a difference.

Another experiment that we can check is to try the same dose of powdered Niacin for people with 100% symptom reduction, but shorten the time between taking Niacin and O. And see if it will be okay to have O sooner than in 1 hour.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on August 22, 2011, 09:47:49 AM
What I can say: i tried 300 mg Niacin and 300 mg XN. XN doesnt give me the flush or i dont notice it, Niacin makes me everytime red, but i have the feeling XN works better even when i dont flush.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on August 22, 2011, 09:58:37 AM
What I can say: i tried 300 mg Niacin and 300 mg XN. XN doesn't give me the flush or i don't notice it, Niacin makes me everytime red, but i have the feeling XN works better even when i don't flush.

Can you say your % of POIS after those trials please?  :) d1/d2 and so on !
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on August 22, 2011, 11:25:52 AM
What I can say: i tried 300 mg Niacin and 300 mg XN. XN doesnt give me the flush or i dont notice it, Niacin makes me everytime red, but i have the feeling XN works better even when i dont flush.
I confirm that I have less flush with XN too, but its as effective as Niacin to prevent POIS for me.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Vincent M on August 22, 2011, 04:33:17 PM
okay I've taken Niacin 2 times in a row. The first night I took 100mg right after dinner and an hour before orgasm. I didn't notice a flush, but I seemed to have more energy around the afternoon of the next day.

The night after I took 200mg of Niacin about 10hrs after eating anything and an hour before orgasm. I definitely got a flush about 30min after I took the pills. My arms were completely red and hot and itchy all over as were my ears and feet. I had an orgasm right when the flush was wearing off and while I did feel tired right after I orgasmed, after I laid down for a couple minutes I noticed I could still think somewhat clearly, which I'm never able to do immediately after orgasm. I felt okay today, but I had another orgasm or two during the night so I'm not 100% yet. I do notice that today my physical energy and stamina are greatly increased. For instance my arms feel a lot lighter if I lift one up and all movement simply happens so much easier than usual. If these results happen every time I take niacin I will conclude that it is definitely worth taking regularly, perhaps once a week so my body doesn't get too used to it.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Animus on August 24, 2011, 10:25:40 PM
Hi Victor
Is there any theory so far that would explain why Niacin and XN seem to work so well.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on August 26, 2011, 07:55:35 AM
okay I've taken Niacin 2 times in a row. The first night I took 100mg right after dinner and an hour before orgasm. I didn't notice a flush, but I seemed to have more energy around the afternoon of the next day.

The night after I took 200mg of Niacin about 10hrs after eating anything and an hour before orgasm. I definitely got a flush about 30min after I took the pills. My arms were completely red and hot and itchy all over as were my ears and feet. I had an orgasm right when the flush was wearing off and while I did feel tired right after I orgasmed, after I laid down for a couple minutes I noticed I could still think somewhat clearly, which I'm never able to do immediately after orgasm. I felt okay today, but I had another orgasm or two during the night so I'm not 100% yet. I do notice that today my physical energy and stamina are greatly increased. For instance my arms feel a lot lighter if I lift one up and all movement simply happens so much easier than usual. If these results happen every time I take niacin I will conclude that it is definitely worth taking regularly, perhaps once a week so my body doesn't get too used to it.

Vincent Marcus - Thank you for sharing these results with us. I am very glad that you are getting such good results. Please keep us informed on your continued use of Niacin.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on August 26, 2011, 07:57:32 AM
What I can say: i tried 300 mg Niacin and 300 mg XN. XN doesnt give me the flush or i dont notice it, Niacin makes me everytime red, but i have the feeling XN works better even when i dont flush.

Hey Starsky. Thanks for this bit of information. I've just ordered some Xan-Pro from Anti-Aging Nutrition - so I look forward to seeing the difference with XN...
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on August 27, 2011, 01:25:08 AM
Hi Animus,

Hi Victor
Is there any theory so far that would explain why Niacin and XN seem to work so well.

Unfortunately I don't have a good answer to your question. Several people proposed theories why Niacin can help prevent POIS symptoms. These theories were published at this forum and at TNS.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on August 27, 2011, 07:14:05 AM
Animus, I was thinking that there is something in this that could explain it. Perhaps not the same syndrome but makes a lot of sense:

http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=197.0
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Animus on August 28, 2011, 02:50:26 AM
thanks for the reference daveman, thanks victor.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on August 28, 2011, 12:50:26 PM
I got some info about Niacin (Acid Nicotinic) :

- half-life = 0.75 hour
- 90 % of it if taken orally, is absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract
- maximum concentrated = between 20 min and 70 min
- 34 % of the dosage is lost after 6 hours in the urine, as if not taken
- ATP intrabrain maintenance
- more glucose and oxygen inside the brain cells

141.7 mg daily of XN improves of 35% the brain capacity/reaction/memory.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Ccconfucius on September 01, 2011, 11:19:24 AM
I tried 200mg niacin and the flush was way worse than 300mg xanthinol nicotinate, but what scared me was the way it spiked my heart rate. 
I will advice people to try xanthinol nicotinate instead of niacin if they are going to try niacin start low and build up.  My heart rate level was once again scary.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on September 01, 2011, 12:45:21 PM
I tried 200mg niacin and the flush was way worse than 300mg xanthinol nicotinate, but what scared me was the way it spiked my heart rate. 
I will advice people to try xanthinol nicotinate instead of niacin if they are going to try niacin start low and build up.  My heart rate level was once again scary.
Thats what I would advice too. XN is generally easier for the body from whatever reason. Niacin is harder beast and one should start low and build up gradually.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: sameer7777 on September 02, 2011, 04:19:55 AM
can i take niocin , its b3 , of gnc ?????
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on September 02, 2011, 02:18:21 PM
"Niacin-induced “Flush” Involves Release of Prostaglandin D2
from Mast Cells and Serotonin from Platelets: Evidence
from Human Cells in Vitro and an Animal Model"

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/327/3/665.full.pdf

Seems interesting !
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: sameer7777 on September 02, 2011, 05:15:28 PM
but its vit b3 ???? isnt it ????
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on September 02, 2011, 06:36:12 PM
Niacin is the active component of the B3 vitamine, yes  :)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on September 02, 2011, 06:59:34 PM
Yes, it IS vitamine B3.

BTW, Does Dr. Goldmeier know about the effects of Niacin, or at least how it potentially helps?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on September 03, 2011, 10:40:36 AM
I tried 200mg niacin and the flush was way worse than 300mg xanthinol nicotinate, but what scared me was the way it spiked my heart rate. 
I will advice people to try xanthinol nicotinate instead of niacin if they are going to try niacin start low and build up.  My heart rate level was once again scary.
Thats what I would advice too. XN is generally easier for the body from whatever reason. Niacin is harder beast and one should start low and build up gradually.

Victor

I just took my first 100 mg niacin with the intention to watch the effects it produces on my body, (I do not want to have an O- at this moment, i want to stop at 200 mg the next week), and it seems that the flush has been weak( I just ate a lot), and maybe i feel a small increase of heart rate.By the way, I want to ask jive-talk if he is having the same good results with niacin or if he has achieved to lower the doses. I will update with my niacin results.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on September 03, 2011, 12:43:56 PM
Powdered Niacin Report.

I've tried to use manually powdered Niacin Acid tablets this time. The dose was 200mg. After taking powdered niacin the flush happened in 5 minutes. Interesting enough that this time I felt also the second wave of flush, about in 20 mins. The O happened in 25 minutes after taking niacin. No POIS symptoms at the first and second day. Powdered niacin felt like a better solution for the stomach compared to non-powdered version - no negative feelings about it in the stomach area.

Warning! Niacin in high doses might make a damage to your liver, please consult with your doctor before attempting to try it.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on September 03, 2011, 12:59:50 PM
Yes, it IS vitamine B3.

BTW, Does Dr. Goldmeier know about the effects of Niacin, or at least how it potentially helps?


I told him about NORD donations and also for the Niacin success but he did not give his view about it back ! I will contact him by mails soon (also to get my blood test results!)  :)

I did not have an O but took Niacin 500 mg in a quite empty stomach and my flush was so hard ^^ but at least i checked it worked very well with the flush. I had an O for the allergic test, and I restart studies so I do not know when I could manage to try it in real !
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on September 03, 2011, 02:48:54 PM
Cool, OK, you could probably cut back maybe to 300. I think the idea would be to see how little could be taken an still have it work.

As far as Dr. Goldmeier, it's probably enough that he knows. It doesn't mater if he responds or not. He would probably have to investigate or give it some thought before he says anything.

Thanks for letting him know.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on September 04, 2011, 08:04:29 AM

Yeh, I made that mistake twice, sometimes, I just can't help it though =(.  Taking after is definitely way less effective.  I do have the theory though that if you are already in POIS, you can remove it by taking xan-pro the next day right before ejaculation.  Not sure why that would work but I have a feeling it would clear away the previous POIS by giving you a flushed orgasm.

I quote this on purpose. Unfortunately, i had an NE before waking up and i could feel the hateful POIS symptoms growing on my body(bad digestion) and on my mind(feeling weird, brain fog increasing) .I usually get POIS symptoms very fast after the O. , and i could notice that something is going on on my head seconds after the Orgasm. So, frustrated, i decided to read this post again to find the quote in bold.
I ate a light breakfast, mostly fruits and compotes and then i decided to take 100 mg Niacin. This time was very different from yesterday. I got a very intense flush. My ears and neck were so red, and i can feel the hot everywhere. Some parts of my body and my arms turned red, too. Then i waited 50 minutes to have an Orgasm. All i can say is that Niacin is better than Fenugreek, better than Garlic and Goji Berries all combined. I feel no POIS, absolutely no brain fog(maybe i´m a little bit tired due to i didn´t sleep well) and i am waiting to make the lunch(one that has more than vegetables) to watch if the brain fog appears. I will update later.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on September 04, 2011, 11:58:51 AM

Yeh, I made that mistake twice, sometimes, I just can't help it though =(.  Taking after is definitely way less effective.  I do have the theory though that if you are already in POIS, you can remove it by taking xan-pro the next day right before ejaculation.  Not sure why that would work but I have a feeling it would clear away the previous POIS by giving you a flushed orgasm.

I quote this on purpose. Unfortunately, i had an NE before waking up and i could feel the hateful POIS symptoms growing on my body(bad digestion) and on my mind(feeling weird, brain fog increasing) .I usually get POIS symptoms very fast after the O. , and i could notice that something is going on on my head seconds after the Orgasm. So, frustrated, i decided to read this post again to find the quote in bold.
I ate a light breakfast, mostly fruits and compotes and then i decided to take 100 mg Niacin. This time was very different from yesterday. I got a very intense flush. My ears and neck were so red, and i can feel the hot everywhere. Some parts of my body and my arms turned red, too. Then i waited 50 minutes to have an Orgasm. All i can say is that Niacin is better than Fenugreek, better than Garlic and Goji Berries all combined. I feel no POIS, absolutely no brain fog(maybe i´m a little bit tired due to i didn´t sleep well) and i am waiting to make the lunch(one that has more than vegetables) to watch if the brain fog appears. I will update later.
If you have POIS symptoms run out after this it would be absolutely fantastic. And if this is so, several of us should verify this finding, it could be VERY informative for our NORD POIS research, I think.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on September 04, 2011, 12:45:36 PM
I will update later.

I was afraid of my lunch because it contained some meat, and an apple cake with cream. This has led me to a worsening of brain fog in the past, specially in the first days of POIS
It seems that the afternoon has passed away with maybe 10-20% brain fog (result of a small nap) that lasted some hours, but it has dissappeared. I have to mention that i am somewhat tired due to the bad sleep of this night, but this with a normal POIS would have me suffering a hell on my mind, and this hasn´t happened. Again i ate an ice cream on the afternoon and that did not give me any worsening of brain fog , i am surprised by this. Right now i feel fine again. I can really feel the difference, and this is the most exciting part!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on September 04, 2011, 03:33:16 PM
This has to be one of the best days of my life. I have had two orgasms in the same day and i feel 100% free of brain fog, my mind is clear, excellent mood...  A decisive victory against POIS but the battle is not over. It would have been impossible if not were for all the people that come here to fight against this condition. Thank you very much. :)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on September 05, 2011, 03:33:36 AM

I just took my first 100 mg niacin with the intention to watch the effects it produces on my body, (I do not want to have an O- at this moment, i want to stop at 200 mg the next week), and it seems that the flush has been weak( I just ate a lot), and maybe i feel a small increase of heart rate.By the way, I want to ask jive-talk if he is having the same good results with niacin or if he has achieved to lower the doses. I will update with my niacin results.

Hi Observer, Absoloutely YES. I am still getting the same results with Niacin. I have not yet tried lower dosages as I feel that 300mg is probably right on the money for me. Not too much and not too little flush. I have some XN coming from the UK, so will try that when it arrives. I think Starsky and Victor seem to think 1. it is less intense on the body, and; 2. seems to work better.

Regretably I don't have 100% Relief with Niacin, I still feel around 10-20% of POIS - But That makes it  a LOT more manageable and is Amazing in and of itself. I also feel the Duration of POIS is a LOT less - Sometimes a Day or less. I think the BIGGEST thing is the relief from Brain Fog. Usually within 20-30 Minutes of O' I no longer can think clearly - but on Niacin this NEVER seems to occur.

I haven't been reporting further as my results have not varied from my previous reports. Yes - I am still taking 100 to 200 mg of Niacin on the Day following O' when I feel POIS coming on. This seems to keep the POIS at bay.

I'll let everyone know how I go with XN when I get it.

JT
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on September 05, 2011, 03:36:44 AM
This has to be one of the best days of my life. I have had two orgasms in the same day and i feel 100% free of brain fog, my mind is clear, excellent mood...  A decisive victory against POIS but the battle is not over. It would have been impossible if not were for all the people that come here to fight against this condition. Thank you very much. :)

Observer. Congratulations - I am VERY VERY Glad for you.

Please Keep us Posted.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on September 05, 2011, 08:30:55 AM
Observer. Congratulations - I am VERY VERY Glad for you.

Please Keep us Posted.

Thank you very much jivetalk for your support!  :)

Today, (usually the worst day) i slept very well and i can function as a normal person. I will continue to post my next experiences with niacin.  
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on September 05, 2011, 04:23:30 PM
Observer. Congratulations - I am VERY VERY Glad for you.

Please Keep us Posted.

Thank you very much jivetalk for your support!  :)

Today, (usually the worst day) i slept very well and i can function as a normal person. I will continue to post my next experiences with niacin.  

Fantastic Observer!! These kinds of things are what the forum is all about!!

I hope to get my Niacin soon!

I dream of what it will be like. If I can have half the benefit, I will be happy.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Jon on September 06, 2011, 02:05:47 PM
Hey guys Id like to share my experience with Niacin. I had to take nearly 500 mg because smaller doses werent affecting me. I didnt feel a flush until I got stimulated and erect. The more aroused I became is when I started to feel a lot of heat in my head (felt like in my brain) and ears. I figured it was the flush but it didnt really pass (Mind you this was a good hour after I had taken the niacin). Afterwards I felt kind of crippled couldnt really get up, for some reason I was hesitant to move and my nerves were very sensitive, It wasnt physically painful to move but it was very difficult. My groin area was also very sensitive. I dont feel that it helped my POIS although near a week after I do feel more completely recovered than usual.

Can anybody relate on any level?

Thanks,

Jon.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Vincent M on September 07, 2011, 09:17:01 AM

Can anybody relate on any level?


It sounds to me like you took the niacin when there was too much food in your stomach or perhaps that you got the slow release kind (but you would know since it would say "extended release" on the bottle. I need to take the niacin about 10 to 11 hrs after I eat anything otherwise I won't get the flush with 200mg.

I can kind of relate in that niacin doesn't make me feel immediately better after orgasm. Although there are less POIS symptoms immediately following an orgasm the real effect of niacin for me seems to be reducing my POIS recovery time. However I seem to need a few hrs sleep combined with a nutritious meal in order for that effect to kick in. Niacin seems to help my muscle and joint pain/exhaustion more than fenugreek because when the effect of it does kick in I have much more physical stamina and strength than normal. When I practice martial arts the day after taking Niacin I can do about twice as many kicks and punches before I become out of breath and before my joints start to hurt.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on September 07, 2011, 02:11:30 PM
Niacin, my personnal 1st trial :

I have eaten little glucide (bread,Nutella) took Niacin 500 mg in a half full stomach and got an intense flush after 20 minutes (tingling inside the brain and red upper part) . I started to get aroused when I felt this flush and then decided to get an O about 1 hour later and I still got a part of the flush after the O. I am feeling in POIS right now  :-[.

 I hope it was just a wrong way to use it... do you have some advice? thank you  :)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on September 07, 2011, 02:45:31 PM
500 mg is a lot. One should start the other way around, start with less and if you get no flush, try a litle more the next time.

Not sure that this should cause it not to work though, although I seem to remember that Victor thought that it's best to wait until the flush has almost gone away. So you were still flushing when you had your orgasm. Still not sure that should have a real negative effect.

Some have found that although it might not stop POIS, that it cuts down the length of the session or both.

So let's see how it goes.

Also, it could well be that you need a couple of sessions for the system to start beating the POIS.

What are your pills? They aren't slow release right? Are they 500 mg pills or did you take 5x100 or 2 x 250 or something like that?



Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on September 07, 2011, 03:13:30 PM
Thank you Daveman  :) I only get the 500 mg pill 1*500 mg :s The only version I found in the UK !
They do not say anything about the release but I guess it was since the flush was fast to come and intense. I took the "Solgar" brand Niacin 500mg.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on September 07, 2011, 03:18:55 PM
Niacin, my personnal 1st trial :

I have eaten little glucide (bread,Nutella) took Niacin 500 mg in a half full stomach and got an intense flush after 20 minutes (tingling inside the brain and red upper part) . I started to get aroused when I felt this flush and then decided to get an O about 1 hour later and I still got a part of the flush after the O. I am feeling in POIS right now  :-[.

 I hope it was just a wrong way to use it... do you have some advice? thank you  :)

I agree with Daveman when he says that you should try lower doses. I only needed 100 mg Niacine after a light breakfast(fruits, compotes) to have a very intense flush. For what i´ve read it seems that you have to wait until the flush pass away. My flush lasted near 10 minutes, and then i decided to wait another 30 min to have the orgasm.

And i just have had some thoughts to share;

I would want to ask if someone has taken niacin of rapid release, didn´t get the flush due to lower dose or full stomach and then had the Orgasm without POIS symptoms, or at least with lowered POIS symptoms. It seems that the flush with the XN is not as intense as the niacin and it works better?.

It is paradoxical, but the people avoid this kind Niacin due to this flush effect. But if we really need the flush, it would be interesting to find things that will assure this flush every time you take a dose of niacin without increasing it during the days. Powdered niacin as some have pointed out, it´s a solution, like drinking hot beverages as tea, coffee or chocolate. For my case, it´s clear that i don´t want to use  the niacin every day, cause i don´t want to build-up any tolerance to it and not cause the flush... If this flush is really neccesary for breaking the POIS cycle(maybe this release of histamines blocks the POIS own "bad release?... It´s very significative that you have to wait until the flush pass away, don´t you think?...).
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on September 07, 2011, 03:27:02 PM
Thank you Daveman  :) I only get the 500 mg pill 1*500 mg :s The only version I found in the UK !
They do not say anything about the release but I guess it was since the flush was fast to come and intense. I took the "Solgar" brand Niacin 500mg.

It´s curious, i am using the same brand, but Niacin 100 mg. At least in Spain , the 500 mg version is without flush http://shop.farmaciameritxell.com/solgar/solgar-niacin-flush-500mg-p-708.html. They don´t say that this Niacin 100 mg is with flush in capital letters, you have to make an effort to read it  ;D , i suppose they are doing it to not scare the potential buyers(Flush for me it not something unpleasant, so do not worry for this side-effect if you have not tried it yet.)

(http://imagenes.solostocks.com/m14014552/solgar-niacina-100mg-100-comprimidos.jpg)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on September 07, 2011, 05:29:01 PM
Thank you for your advice  :) ! 6 Hours after the O, i have a very heavy head, everything seems locked inside the brain +nose+throat. I will try to split one pill and see when i start to get the flush (100 mg, 200 mg...) and will wait until it is totally finished, will update.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on September 07, 2011, 11:10:20 PM
Hey guys Id like to share my experience with Niacin. I had to take nearly 500 mg because smaller doses werent affecting me. I didnt feel a flush until I got stimulated and erect. The more aroused I became is when I started to feel a lot of heat in my head (felt like in my brain) and ears. I figured it was the flush but it didnt really pass (Mind you this was a good hour after I had taken the niacin). Afterwards I felt kind of crippled couldnt really get up, for some reason I was hesitant to move and my nerves were very sensitive, It wasnt physically painful to move but it was very difficult. My groin area was also very sensitive. I dont feel that it helped my POIS although near a week after I do feel more completely recovered than usual.

Can anybody relate on any level?

Thanks,

Jon.

Hi Jon, Many Thanks for posting your results here. It is VERY important to identify cases like yours, and determine why Niacin may not be working for you.

"Afterwards I felt kind of crippled couldnt really get up, for some reason I was hesitant to move and my nerves were very sensitive, It wasnt physically painful to move but it was very difficult. My groin area was also very sensitive. "...


This is definitely new to me. This doesn't happen to me, nor have I read this happen to others. This sounds a little concerning actually, and it would be best to seek some Professional advice on this. Niacin is a supplement and also acts as a Vasolidator - So if you have any pre-existing conditions it may exaserbate the problem - Which may also explain why it is not as effective in combating POIS for you.

Of course we need to explore other things that others have posted...Was the Niacin you took 'Non-Flush' etc..

"I dont feel that it helped my POIS although near a week after I do feel more completely recovered than usual."

It may be that Niacin is still working in reducing your POIS time. I recently had my POIS reduced down to 1 day which is amazing (although my POIS seemed a little higher for that one day than usual on Niacin), but this does seem to vary - so I am still experimenting with it.

Please Keep us posted on how you go.

JT
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on September 07, 2011, 11:24:40 PM
Thank you for your advice  :) ! 6 Hours after the O, i have a very heavy head, everything seems locked inside the brain +nose+throat. I will try to split one pill and see when i start to get the flush (100 mg, 200 mg...) and will wait until it is totally finished, will update.

Hi Habibou,

Thanks for posting your results here. Yes 500mg is a HUGE amount for a first try - But I don't think it should affect the POIS results in any way. The Flush will just feel a LOT more unpleasant than it should. Soreness around skin and face etc...
Observer is using the same brand but the 100mg Gram version and seem to be getting reasonable result.

I have checked out this site.....
http://www.solgar.co.uk/product/niacin-100-mg-tablets-vitamin-b3-100-E1860.html
http://www.solgar.co.uk/product/niacin-500-mg-vegetable-capsules-vitamin-b3-100-E1851.html

Check out the Supplement Facts for each

556 <- Recommended Daily intake for 100mg Version
3125 <- Recommended Daily intake for 500mg Version

These figures suggest that the 500mg Version may a Slow Release Type...or might not be a PURE version of Nictonic Acid/Niacin.....Or at least that the Two versions of Niacin from the Same Company are different in Chemical Structure somehow.
If it is Slow Release, breaking up the 500mg probably won't do too much.

I have just ordered some Xan-Pro which comes from the UK. It is the only form of Pill based Xanthinol Nicotinate I could find - I think Starsky is taking this and getting reasonable results. IF you're in the UK it might even be more accessible to you and cheaper (due to shipping etc..). Either that or maybe try the 100mg version that Observer is using.

JT
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: B_Daniel on September 08, 2011, 12:43:57 AM
You have to be a damn detective to figure out if these Vitamins are flush-free or not.. it's damn ridiculous!

We have now had SO many instances of people buying 500mg, 750mg, and 1000mg Niacin pills and not getting good results.

I think it is a fair rule of thumb, that if your niacin comes in pills of over 250mg, you have the slow-release, or some other format, regardless of what the label on the bottle does or doesn't say.  So if you're using a 500mg Niacin and it's not working, go find a 100mg pill and try again!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on September 08, 2011, 01:37:05 AM
You have to be a damn detective to figure out if these Vitamins are flush-free or not.. it's damn ridiculous!

We have now had SO many instances of people buying 500mg, 750mg, and 1000mg Niacin pills and not getting good results.

I think it is a fair rule of thumb, that if your niacin comes in pills of over 250mg, you have the slow-release, or some other format, regardless of what the label on the bottle does or doesn't say.  So if you're using a 500mg Niacin and it's not working, go find a 100mg pill and try again!
I think you are right here B_Daniel. These pills seem to vary very much. And we need somehow distinguish the good fast release Niacin. My Niacin tablets come in doses of 50mg. But here is a funny thing. I've bought the tablets of the different producer and they seems working far much worser. They even smell different. The "good" Niacin tablets have specific smell that is pretty strong. The "bad" Niacin tablets of other producer smell much weaker. So... seems its a task in itself to find good Niacin supplier. Sigh...

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on September 08, 2011, 07:30:44 AM
You have to be a damn detective to figure out if these Vitamins are flush-free or not.. it's damn ridiculous!

We have now had SO many instances of people buying 500mg, 750mg, and 1000mg Niacin pills and not getting good results.

I think it is a fair rule of thumb, that if your niacin comes in pills of over 250mg, you have the slow-release, or some other format, regardless of what the label on the bottle does or doesn't say.  So if you're using a 500mg Niacin and it's not working, go find a 100mg pill and try again!
I totally agree with you  :) and thank you also Quasar for the 100 mg/500 mg components research. I live in France so I will have to order it (been to London exceptionally to see Dr Goldmeier) and thank you for the link !
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: silverandcol on September 08, 2011, 11:56:54 PM
Wow great to hear about your success Observer.  This gives me confidence that if I do get into POIS mode, there is still hope left.  But yeah, I have been having pretty good results with Puritan's Pride premium niacin 250mg.  It says Niacin in the amount per servings.  I think it is important to pick a supplement that has mostly pure niacin without any sort of fancy stuff.  I have been getting constant flush about 50 minutes after taking it.  I try to keep empty stomach, but it is not always that way I think.  It is also interesting to note that I have been getting constant flush without needing to take more niacin.  I usually use it about once a week, so that may be the reason.  
Good luck to all!


O also, I am getting more flush with just niacin over the xan-pro. I am not sure which one gives better results though.  The niacin does tell me when the medicine has kicked in though.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on September 09, 2011, 01:11:19 AM
The people living in Ukraine, please be careful with buying Niacin Acid tablets produced by VAT "Vitaminy". Something wrong with the tablets, they don't smell so strong as they should and they inefficient against POIS. Maybe I've got somehow damaged tablets, but maybe there is something wrong with the producer.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on September 09, 2011, 05:48:32 AM
Victor, do you really dont feel the difrence how niacin and xn change the impact of POIS? I think XN is much better.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on September 09, 2011, 06:18:13 AM
Can you cut the pill in half? Try to take 250mg, or crush it into a powder and take 1/5 (100mg)? Remeber, Victor mentioned that in powdered form it enters the system a little faster so 100mg might be like 125mg.

It's always better to start on the safe side, and if it's not enough increase slowly.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on September 09, 2011, 06:45:40 AM
Victor, do you really dont feel the difrence how niacin and xn change the impact of POIS? I think XN is much better.

The issue is that I've mostly experimented and continue to experiment with tablets of Niacin Acid. Aside of that I did also XN injections during a year. I think I should not really compare tablets and injections, they are different, but in the end the result for me is the same - no POIS. My experience with XN tablets is very limited as of now, but I plan to experiment with XN tablets soon and then compare Niacin Acid tablets vs XN tablets.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on September 09, 2011, 06:50:27 AM
Can you cut the pill in half? Try to take 250mg, or crush it into a powder and take 1/5 (100mg)? Remeber, Victor mentioned that in powdered form it enters the system a little faster so 100mg might be like 125mg.

It's always better to start on the safe side, and if it's not enough increase slowly.
Powdered tablets are better, the faster they enter the system - the better you feel the flush and the less the chances that you will have O too early, also stomach should be less irritated, because substance is not so concentrated. I think its better to take powdered forms of XN/Niacin for all of us.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on September 09, 2011, 09:25:55 AM
I took XN, what i noticed... i dont get a rash on my skin while i try to test my allergy. Before XN i got it every time.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on September 09, 2011, 12:37:43 PM
I took XN, what i noticed... i dont get a rash on my skin while i try to test my allergy. Before XN i got it every time.

What do you mean in this case "test your allergy"?. I ask because I had been wondering if we could start a desensitization program and take XN or Niacin in the meantime to reduce suffereing. But if it reduces the allergic effect, it might hinder the desensitization process!

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on September 09, 2011, 12:39:23 PM
Can you cut the pill in half? Try to take 250mg, or crush it into a powder and take 1/5 (100mg)? Remeber, Victor mentioned that in powdered form it enters the system a little faster so 100mg might be like 125mg.

It's always better to start on the safe side, and if it's not enough increase slowly.
Powdered tablets are better, the faster they enter the system - the better you feel the flush and the less the chances that you will have O too early, also stomach should be less irritated, because substance is not so concentrated. I think its better to take powdered forms of XN/Niacin for all of us.

Victor

Thanks Victor, your procedures and reporting have really helped a lot here to come up with a fairly relieable process.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Ccconfucius on September 09, 2011, 12:46:13 PM
I took XN, what i noticed... i dont get a rash on my skin while i try to test my allergy. Before XN i got it every time.

What do you mean in this case "test your allergy"?. I ask because I had been wondering if we could start a desensitization program and take XN or Niacin in the meantime to reduce suffereing. But if it reduces the allergic effect, it might hinder the desensitization process!




Am curious about that I was wondering if there is a way to use XN and then do intradermal test to see what happens
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on September 09, 2011, 01:45:05 PM
When i put the semen on my skin and wait 30min it doesnt react with XN.  I think desensitization occurs even when you take antihistamines.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on September 09, 2011, 11:46:48 PM
When i put the semen on my skin and wait 30min it doesnt react with XN.  I think desensitization occurs even when you take antihistamines.

Starsky. That is HUGE. So let me get this right.

1. You've tried a 'Control' test, placing semen on your skin without Taking XN - and your skin reacts with an 'allergy' like rash.
2. You've then tried this again after taking XN - And you find there is No Rash.

Please confirm if this is right. This is HUGE. I must try this with Niacin and XN also.

I've just had my Xan-Pro arrive from the UK - took about 2 weeks to get here. Have a Nasty Flu a the moment, so unlikely I will be trying this any time soon.
The XN that you take, is it the Xan-Pro from the Anti-Aging Website, distributed by www.profound-products.com ??

And how many Tablets are you taking of XN?

JT


Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on September 10, 2011, 03:28:49 AM
Yes, you are right. I take 300-450 mg XN.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on September 10, 2011, 03:33:26 AM
I have a 1g slow release pills from a german pharmacy - drug called COMPLAMIN speziall, which i crushed, but i take now this product http://www.supersmart.com/en--Vitamins--Xanthinol-nicotinate-150-mg--0444
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: rock27 on September 10, 2011, 03:41:28 AM
Starsky, this is HUGE indeed! I know I'm repeating, but you introduced a control in your research. That should convince other people (who can't see brain fog, but obviously can see red spots). THANKS!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on September 10, 2011, 06:55:20 AM
Worth repeating. Controls are so important, they help us immensly. The data is everything!!

Thanks Starsky.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on September 10, 2011, 07:35:08 AM
I have a 1g slow release pills from a german pharmacy - drug called COMPLAMIN speziall, which i crushed, but i take now this product http://www.supersmart.com/en--Vitamins--Xanthinol-nicotinate-150-mg--0444

Thanks Starsky!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: demografx on September 10, 2011, 08:11:49 PM
Amazing developments here!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Vincent M on September 11, 2011, 05:56:13 PM
 I took 200mg of niacin last night about 10 hrs after eating anything, got the flush decently hard, orgasmed 1hr and about 20min after taking the pills. I then went to bed and had an additional 2 "O"s during the night. The next day I woke up early, put on my chastity device (makes me feel like a freak, but it works), had fenugreek + garlic in the morning then fenugreek + green tea around noon. I was then able to get about 30 min of hard exercise (jogging, sprinting, martial arts) and about 3 hrs of light walking outside in my back yard.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: MrMoonJr on September 11, 2011, 07:38:30 PM
Hey! Im very intrigued by this new discovery!! It is a hugeee godsend for all POIS sufferers.. I went to my local pharmacy/drug store, now in Canada we dont have XN but we do have Niacin, so I did buy some. I bought 500mg but i will be taking half a pill an hour and 10 minutes before O. I will Keep posted in this thread about my outcomes (:

Hope that it is effective for me. I know it has been a miracle for many
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Vincent M on September 12, 2011, 08:55:23 AM
Hey, MrMoonJr, it seems that the larger dose niacin pills such as 500mg are sometimes the extended release type. So if they don't give you the flush then you may have better luck with 100mg pills or perhaps 200mg ones.

but I guess if you are breaking the pills it may not matter.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on September 12, 2011, 09:06:08 AM
Also, I found that in the vitamin or health stores there is more variety in doses and combinations. The pharmacy has restricted recipes and are usually more expensive.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: MrMoonJr on September 12, 2011, 10:23:45 AM
Yeah, You are right. They are definatley more restrictive to the selection of mg dosages. I went to the the pharmacist and talked to him about the effects, and made sure I got one that was flush. He said that ones that are flush free aren't as good as a vasodialatior and if you can feel the flush, you know in turn that it is working and reacting properly. Ill go to a local drug store and see if I can pick up 150 or 100 mg Niacin. However :P after spending a few bucks on the 500mg it dosent hurt to try. Im going to keep a log book to record how I feel at the time and I'll post the results for everyone (:
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: MrMoonJr on September 12, 2011, 10:25:56 AM
Just a question as well.. If you take Niacin after O, does it still have an effect, and if so, IS the effect as strong as if you take it before having an orgasm? If anyone has had any experience with this, I would lovee to hear :D
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on September 12, 2011, 11:17:04 AM
Just a question as well.. If you take Niacin after O, does it still have an effect, and if so, IS the effect as strong as if you take it before having an orgasm? If anyone has had any experience with this, I would lovee to hear :D

I have had 4 Orgasms more after taking the niacin:

First: 200 mg Niacin - weak flush- waited 1 hour to orgasm : NO POIS symptoms.
Second: 100mg + 200 mg - Did not feel the flush after the first dose(i ate so much) so decided to jump - moderate flush waited 1 hour: NO POIS symptoms again!!!
Third: 200 mg - weak flush - Had the orgasm a little after the flush: Some POIS symptoms developed, mild brainfog.
Fourth: The next day , and with some POIS, i had another orgasm: 200 mg - intense flush(empty stomach) : NO POIS symptoms, maybe i feel a little tired during the morning, but on the afternoon i was 100% again.

I suggest you to have another orgasm if you already have POIS symptoms (but with the niacin flush). That would wippe of the previous POIS symptoms, it has happened to me twice!!!. Niacin is the right option!! :)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: MrMoonJr on September 12, 2011, 12:01:23 PM
(: thats really incrediable :D its amazing that we have found something that can help us all in this struggle (:

Thank you so much Observer for posting your experience :D makes me feel a lot more comfortable :p
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on September 13, 2011, 03:10:45 AM
The skin reaction to semen comes back to "normal" after 6 h after intake of XN.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on September 13, 2011, 07:21:55 AM
The skin reaction to semen comes back to "normal" after 6 h after intake of XN.
Starsky, according to your results it looks like XN/Niacin works as anti-allergen/anti-histamine drug for preventing POIS-allergy symptoms. But I wonder why other anti-allergen's/anti-histamines seem not have such a strong effect?

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on September 13, 2011, 07:06:59 PM
I think that niacin works by providing the building blocks for histamines. These same building blocks are also used for serotonine and dopamine. We require a lot of histamines because of our POIS, which consumes the building blocks normally used to make the serotonine and dopamine. So we end up with low levels of those two importent components. Thus brain-fog and general myalgia.

The niacin makes sure we have a good supply available.

I think that's what's happening.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: jivetalk on September 14, 2011, 07:04:57 AM
Just a question as well.. If you take Niacin after O, does it still have an effect, and if so, IS the effect as strong as if you take it before having an orgasm? If anyone has had any experience with this, I would lovee to hear :D

I have had 4 Orgasms more after taking the niacin:

First: 200 mg Niacin - weak flush- waited 1 hour to orgasm : NO POIS symptoms.
Second: 100mg + 200 mg - Did not feel the flush after the first dose(i ate so much) so decided to jump - moderate flush waited 1 hour: NO POIS symptoms again!!!
Third: 200 mg - weak flush - Had the orgasm a little after the flush: Some POIS symptoms developed, mild brainfog.
Fourth: The next day , and with some POIS, i had another orgasm: 200 mg - intense flush(empty stomach) : NO POIS symptoms, maybe i feel a little tired during the morning, but on the afternoon i was 100% again.

I suggest you to have another orgasm if you already have POIS symptoms (but with the niacin flush). That would wippe of the previous POIS symptoms, it has happened to me twice!!!. Niacin is the right option!! :)


It is great to hear your continued success with Niacin Observer!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on September 14, 2011, 01:22:06 PM

It is great to hear your continued success with Niacin Observer!

Thank you very much jivetalk!! I am sure that 200 mg Niacin is the right option, maybe a little less, because with 100 mg Niacin i still got some very minor symptoms during 1-2 days, (still a very big improvement). I am always getting the flush( and an intense one) since i crush the niacin(3 days ago) and i take in the powder form... 100% effective, absolutely no POIS, always flush, no stomach problems... This is wonderful!!!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on September 14, 2011, 02:05:11 PM

It is great to hear your continued success with Niacin Observer!

Thank you very much jivetalk!! I am sure that 200 mg Niacin is the right option, maybe a little less, because with 100 mg Niacin i still got some very minor symptoms during 1-2 days, (still a very big improvement). I am always getting the flush( and an intense one) since i crush the niacin(3 days ago) and i take in the powder form... 100% effective, absolutely no POIS, always flush, no stomach problems... This is wonderful!!!
Thank you for your report Observer! Your results support the idea that powdered form is better, wonderful.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Vincent M on September 14, 2011, 03:10:05 PM
When you take niacin in powdered form do you just swallow the powder with water like you would with a pill?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: MrMoonJr on September 14, 2011, 07:16:37 PM
Yes! im pretty interested in powdered form too! I think itd be alot easier for me to take
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on September 14, 2011, 09:14:03 PM
When you take niacin in powdered form do you just swallow the powder with water like you would with a pill?
Yes, exactly.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on September 16, 2011, 05:36:05 PM
When you take niacin in powdered form do you just swallow the powder with water like you would with a pill?

Yes Vincent. I crush the two niacin tablets between two spoons as much as i can. Then you should get the flush more faster and in a more intense way than the flush of non-powdered niacin. I continue to be impressed by the results of Niacin, and i suggest you to combine the use of niacin with less orgasms(This week i have had one orgasm/eyaculation every day and the results have been incredible.), and you will realize the difference. This is the biggest step i have made since i am participating actively on this forum. You should find your dose, taking into consideration that too much niacin could cause damage to your liver!!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Jon on September 16, 2011, 08:45:16 PM
Hey guys, How long does niacin last in your system to have sex? Also, does anyone know if taking niacin with cialis?

My cognition is extremely bad, I hope I am not the only one with a a low libido. It has deminished with POIS and I hardly get aroused anymore.

Does anyone else feel like an orgasm can shift your cognition...Not meaning better or worse cuz its always worse but I mean different functions shifting ? Maybe this time you can focus better than last or maybe this time you can move to a beat better than last. And it remains like this till the next orgasm shifts it again. Overall for worse though thats how I got this bad.

My issue is constant.

I am seeing a NeuroPsychiatrist at one of the best hospitals in the world in October. I will be letting everyone know how that goes.

Thanks,

Jon.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on September 18, 2011, 07:02:09 AM
As I understand it, niacin is good for about 5 hrs. That is you can have an orgasm up to 5 hours after taking it. I don't know, but I would guess that the effects would be reduced in the later hours of taking it though.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: rock27 on September 18, 2011, 07:55:46 AM
I don't know Daveman. I looked up a study on some antihistamines (of course may work different than XN, but just for some comparison).

 http://www.bioline.org.br/pdf?dv08157.  When you look at the bottom of page 362 they are most effective between 3 - 6 hours (that's when they reduce wheal size most). So they need some time to fully kick in. This might be true for XN as well. Would be very interesting to know these data of XN to wheal size as well.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Guthrie on September 18, 2011, 12:44:33 PM
Hi all, an update on my experiences with niacin.  When I first took the niacin (about a month and a half ago), I did so with 300 mg, and had a flush that lasted about one hour.  The next day, my POIS was reduced to about 15-20%.  So that was promising. 

But, I thought that a one-hour flush seemed a little bit long.  So, in subsequent attempts, I only took 100 mg or 200 mg.  This still produced a full flush, but one that didn't last as long.  However, with these, I found that my POIS-reduction was not as significant.  So that made me think that maybe the niacin wasn't working for me.

But then, on Friday night, I decided to try 300 mg again.  This time, I had an O about 2 hours after taking the niacin, and then the next day, my POIS was reduced to about 15-20% again. 

This makes me think that perhaps simply 'experiencing the flush' may not be the sole factor to consider -- one can achieve the flush with lower doses (100 mg/200 mg), but it may be that that the higher (300 mg) dose may be doing other things as well.  (E.g., perhaps, using up greater stores of histamine, so that one has a less-strong histamine reaction in response to O.) 

So, I think this could be an important thing to consider: 'achieving a flush vs. not achieving a flush' is not the only thing going on, and so we should not focus just on that.  Rather, a flush could simply be an outward sign of something else that the niacin is doing, and while a lower dose may still achieve the flush, it may not be as effective at doing that 'something else.' 

And, it could be the case that if that 'something else' is something like using histamine stores (or something similar), it could be that the niacin could still have that same effect, even if one built up a tolerance to the flush-effect.  In this case, it might be possible that taking niacin every day could be helpful for POIS, even if that lessened the effect of the flush in particular.

What do others think? 
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Vincent M on September 18, 2011, 01:47:59 PM
Guthrie, I agree that with niacin the more intense the flush the greater the POIS symptom reduction seems to be. I'm not sure whether building a resistance to the flush would lessen the effect on POIS or not, but I doubt you'd want to take 200 to 300mg of niacin daily due to possible liver damage. I'm not sure what the safe amount is to take daily.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Guthrie on September 18, 2011, 02:31:46 PM
I doubt you'd want to take 200 to 300mg of niacin daily due to possible liver damage. I'm not sure what the safe amount is to take daily.

Actually, I don't think this is necessarily true.  Obviously, it is important to be cautious in taking any supplement.  However, in pretty much all the different sources I've looked at, the 'liver-risky' dosage is often listed at 3 g (= 3000 mg) per day.  The lowest number that I've seen anywhere for a 'liver-risky' dosage is 1 g (= 1000 mg) per day.  On top of that, it is specifically the slow-release form of niacin that has the most risks for the liver.  As such, from what I've read, it seems that taking up to 1000 mg per day of the 'regular' (i.e. 'flushing') variety of niacin does not appear to be dangerous for the liver.  And so 300 mg per day would certainly seem to fall well within this non-risk range.

If I'm wrong about this, please correct me -- we shouldn't gloss over risks, but we also should avoid over-stating them.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on September 18, 2011, 06:58:01 PM
I want to underline what Guthrie is saying. On my first report with niacin i told that i just took 100 mg. I got a very intense flush, but i had some minor symptoms of brain fog, some hours after the orgasm, and i could feel this symptoms( 10-20% intensity of usual POIS) in some moments during the next 36-48 hours. During that severely reduced POIS episode, i did not take more niacin, fenugreek or garlic. I just continued with my normal life, without taking care of my diet too, and i could appreciate that if POIS has been like that during the last 7 years i have been suffering this condition, it would have not supposed a significant problem in my daily life.

But the next week i used 200 mg 1 hour prior to sexual intercourse. Sometimes i got an intense flush, but other times(maybe because i ate only 2 hours before and because my body was beginning to be used to niacin) the flush was mild. In all the cases, the result has been the same: ABSOLUTELY NO POIS FOR ME; 100% free of symptoms of brain fog!. Flush has occurred in all the cases, but the intensity has been very very different and POIS has been blocked in some way!----> This points to me that the intensity of the flush is not the most important factor whenever you get it, but the amount of niacin taken, that it seems could change a lot depending on the person.

I agree on Guthrie that we should find a reasonable dose to not inflict damage on the liver and we need take it only when neccesary(i think it must be an error taking it every day!), and the dose that is working on me 100% seems to be more than 100 mg and less than 200 mg.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Egordon on September 19, 2011, 12:21:21 AM
I doubt you'd want to take 200 to 300mg of niacin daily due to possible liver damage. I'm not sure what the safe amount is to take daily.

Actually, I don't think this is necessarily true.  Obviously, it is important to be cautious in taking any supplement.  However, in pretty much all the different sources I've looked at, the 'liver-risky' dosage is often listed at 3 g (= 3000 mg) per day.  The lowest number that I've seen anywhere for a 'liver-risky' dosage is 1 g (= 1000 mg) per day.  On top of that, it is specifically the slow-release form of niacin that has the most risks for the liver.  As such, from what I've read, it seems that taking up to 1000 mg per day of the 'regular' (i.e. 'flushing') variety of niacin does not appear to be dangerous for the liver.  And so 300 mg per day would certainly seem to fall well within this non-risk range.

If I'm wrong about this, please correct me -- we shouldn't gloss over risks, but we also should avoid over-stating them.


I think you may have misunderstood some of the information out there. It's ONLY safe to take 1000mg of niacin a day if you're taking the slow release version. A great many people take between 500 - 1500 mg of niacin a day for cholesterol regulation, but all of that diffuses into your body over the course of 10 or so hours, so there's not an especially large shock to your liver.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Guthrie on September 19, 2011, 03:51:37 AM
Flush has occurred in all the cases, but the intensity has been very very different and POIS has been blocked in some way!----> This points to me that the intensity of the flush is not the most important factor whenever you get it, but the amount of niacin taken, that it seems could change a lot depending on the person.

I agree on Guthrie that we should find a reasonable dose to not inflict damage on the liver and we need take it only when neccesary(i think it must be an error taking it every day!), and the dose that is working on me 100% seems to be more than 100 mg and less than 200 mg.

Observer, thanks for adding your experiences.  I certainly think you're right that a person should take niacin "only when necessary."  In your case, that turns out to be 200 mg before an O.  However, it might be that for some people, that might not be sufficient, and so for them it could be good to test out taking it every day.  I don't know for sure, but it is something to test.  In my case, taking 300 mg improved my POIS a lot, but it did not get rid of it entirely -- so perhaps additional dosage is needed, either more just before O, or perhaps a taking some everyday.  Different people may be different, and we each person needs to test to find a way that works best for them -- while being careful with potential negative health effects, of course.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Guthrie on September 19, 2011, 03:55:58 AM

I think you may have misunderstood some of the information out there. It's ONLY safe to take 1000mg of niacin a day if you're taking the slow release version. A great many people take between 500 - 1500 mg of niacin a day for cholesterol regulation, but all of that diffuses into your body over the course of 10 or so hours, so there's not an especially large shock to your liver.


Egordon, no, I'm pretty sure that it is the slow release that is more dangerous to your liver.  I've seen this in multiple sources.

E.g. here: http://shipbrook.com/jeff/CoS/narconon/niacin.html

Quote
Evidence exists that sustained-release niacin, with respect to both dosage and severity, is more hepatotoxic than crystalline niacin. Three patients who developed hepatitis during treatment with sustained-release niacin were rechallenged with equivalent or higher doses of crystalline niacin, with no evidence of recurring hepatocellular damage.

Although the mechanism for niacin-induced hepatitis is unknown, these cases support previous observations that crystalline niacin may be less hepatotoxic than sustained-release preparations in certain patients. NIACIN (nicotinic acid) is an effective hypolipidemic agent available in several forms, including crystalline preparations ("regular" niacin) and various forms of sustained-release (or slow-release SR) capsules and caplets.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Jon on September 19, 2011, 09:47:44 PM
I see. Thanks Daveman.

I'm not sure if Niacin is working for me, I get a strange effect from it. Ive took almost 500 mg both times ive used it and have barely felt a flush either time, Only a little tingling in the face. Both times I had the O and both nights my sleep was very uncomfortable, Almost like im frozen in bed and it is very irritating to move, A very weird feeling. I do admit that I feel a little better ont he first day of POIS than usual but the effects are still there. Im using Gnc Niacin 250 mg tablets. Anyone else having these symptoms? Also does anyone know if its ok to take Cialis with Niacin.

Thanks guys.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Jon on September 19, 2011, 09:48:14 PM
P.S. I am very thankful to all of you who have helped me out because i would be totally lost without you.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on September 20, 2011, 08:20:11 AM
I see. Thanks Daveman.

I'm not sure if Niacin is working for me, I get a strange effect from it. Ive took almost 500 mg both times ive used it and have barely felt a flush either time, Only a little tingling in the face. Both times I had the O and both nights my sleep was very uncomfortable, Almost like im frozen in bed and it is very irritating to move, A very weird feeling. I do admit that I feel a little better ont he first day of POIS than usual but the effects are still there. Im using Gnc Niacin 250 mg tablets. Anyone else having these symptoms? Also does anyone know if its ok to take Cialis with Niacin.

Thanks guys.

I was just reading about "the flush". Those who most need it require more niacin to feel the flush. However by your description, it almost seems like you have the slow release kind. In any case, they say that for those who need more, the flush, or "side effects" can extend out over time, almost like it were the slow release kind.

I think that with time, the system adapts, and you come to more of a normal reaction.

When do you take the niacin, at night? Try it more in the morning and on an empty stomach. The effect of "empty stomach" is significant. Also crushing to powder creates a more rapid effect.

When the effect is more rapid, the longer term side effects should be lesser. So try crushing it and or taking it on a completely empty stomach. Start with lower amount, just in case, because the effect is dramatic.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Jon on September 20, 2011, 02:13:44 PM
I see.. interesting. Yes I do take it at night about 45 minutes before orgasm. Good tips, I will try not eating for a few hours and I will crush it. Can I ask what type of Niacin did you buy?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on September 20, 2011, 03:50:46 PM
I see.. interesting. Yes I do take it at night about 45 minutes before orgasm. Good tips, I will try not eating for a few hours and I will crush it. Can I ask what type of Niacin did you buy?

This one is working wonders for me, Jon. http://www.solgar.com/SolgarProducts/Niacin-Vitamin-B3-100-mg-Tablets.htm

Hope you could find it easily!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Guthrie on September 20, 2011, 08:22:51 PM
Quote from: POIS-SUFFERER
Quote from: Guthrie
Has anyone on the forum done comparison tests between regular niacin and nicotinamide, to see if the latter has any effect on POIS?

I have been taking 1000mg Niacinamide (not Nicotinamide) and I am told it is a non-flushing type and its been working very well.... at 1000mg dose few hours before.... but I have noted that taking it daily and having O when ever seems also to work decently also.....

And I need to also say AGAIN that my brain fog left once I stopped taking caffeine, no coffee, no softdrink/soda with caffeine, no chocolate.....

However I still suffer from anger, some social withdrawl, and as long as I am on Niacinamide the all over horrible body feelings are down 70%

PS.

A new and enouraging development: when I read POIS-SUFFERER's response, I was somewhat surprised.  Niacinamide (= Nicotinamide) is a non-flushing form of niacin.  So, since we had generally had been attributing the success of both niacin and XN to its flushing properties, then one would think that the non-flushing form wouldn't be effective for POIS.  But, it apparently *was* working for POIS-SUFFERER.  So, what to make of this seeming contradiction?

I said to myself, "Hmmm, what would Galileo do?"  So, I went out and got a bottle of Niacinamide (which is a non-flushing form -- not the same as 'slow release niacin', which *is* flushing, but has a spread-out, rather than concentrated effect).  Last night, I took two 550 mg capsules, for a total of 1100 mg.  There was no flush whatsoever.  Two and a half hours after taking the capsules, I had an O.  The next day: essentially 90% POIS-free!!!  Possibly even 95%! And, this was in terms of basically all of my normal POIS symptoms: brain fog, mood, concentration, energy.   Definitely a noticeable difference even from the effect of my last trial, with 300 mg of the regular (flushing) variety of niacin, and which had worked pretty well (80-85%).   It may be that the overall amount (1100 mg vs. 300 mg) had something to do with it as well.

So, while I'll have to test it again to rule out one-time effect or placebo, the non-flushing Niacinamide seems pretty clearly to have worked *very* well.  This seems to reconfigure our basic hypotheses about why niacin works: from this result, it would seem that it is not the flushing that makes a difference at all!  Rather, it would seem to have to be some property that regular (flushing) niacin also shares with the non-flushing variety.

So, what is that property?  Not sure at this point, but even just this result can help point us in the proper direction.  I will certainly be testing it again, and others may want to try Niacinamide/Nicotinamide to see how your results compare to the flushing variety.  In my case, it was also an added bonus not to have to experience the flush, which was often pretty uncomfortable for me with the itching/heat.

We shall see...
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on September 20, 2011, 08:45:48 PM
OK, sounds interesting. I think it's still compatible with this line though
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=197.0

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Guthrie on September 21, 2011, 03:23:35 PM
OK, sounds interesting. I think it's still compatible with this line though
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=197.0


Sure, that's a possibility, although there could also be other potential explanations.  I suppose from our general lack of technical medical-chemical testing, all we can really do is test what seems to work for us practically, and then see what conclusions we can draw from that.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on September 21, 2011, 06:13:15 PM
I'd like to see 4 or 5 fairly well defined posibilities defined (not just niacin or auto-immune etc.) before we enter the research program, which I also hope we can enter early in the 2012!

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Jon on September 21, 2011, 07:30:35 PM
Thanks, Observan and Daveman much appreciated. I do have another question for everyone if you don't mind.

Does anyone get a symptom of feeling tired except its not tired its almost like a weakness where you feel if you close your eyes you'll forget where you are and almost fall out? You can almost close your eyes and taper off almost anywhere and you feel kind of weak? The first time I took Niacin this symptoms was much improved and I was much more alert. But this time its very difficult to do things on the go and its a very crappy weak kind of feeling. Its hard to anticipate things because its almost like your half asleep. Say I have plans for the weekend.. I can hear them but I cant actual anticipate them meaning I cant picture the place or anything in my head. If I pull up somewhere I have to concentrate on the building im going into because I sometimes almost forget where im going.

Does anyone else experience this? And if so can anything be done about it?

Thanks, Jon.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: MrMoonJr on September 21, 2011, 11:08:25 PM
Concentration is a big thing for many of us. Its weird... Sometimes I can look at something and then look away and forget what it looked like... Its very hard to deal with especially when you have a busy life... I havent tried niacin yet, im waiting for my current pois episode symptoms to clear before I try it.. but I found water to me at least gives me a slight placebo effect and makes me feel a bit better... but definatley a placebo effect.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: b_jim on September 22, 2011, 02:29:17 AM
Jon I think the same. My last test with niacin improves my cognitive symptomes. I prefer to wait because I'm an anxious person so in 2-3 months I can say if it's placebo or not.
To describe the symptom, I prefer to use the words "dream-like feeling". I suspect serotonin pathway because all seems linked : B3,tryptophan,moods change/serotonin, insomnia/melatonin...

B-3 is needed to synthetize hormones like insulin. After 3 years of low glycemic diet, it improves my Pois of 50%.

B-3 is needed to synthetize sexual hormones like testosterone, progesterone, oestrogens... 
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on September 22, 2011, 08:55:57 AM
Jon, b_jim,

You're saying that WITH niacin you get the "dream-like" state?

Or it's a symptom, brain-fog realtive,  that's relieved with niacin?

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Jon on September 22, 2011, 01:00:58 PM
Its a very unalert state, More of a weakness than tired but can close my eyes and fall out anytime. It is part of my regular POIS and is constant for me but Niacin did help a little bit the first time. I'm wondering if theres anyone else thay experiences this and also what can be done about it?

You the man, Daveman ! Much appreciated.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: lauracostis on September 23, 2011, 07:54:40 PM
Quote from: POIS-SUFFERER
Quote from: Guthrie
Has anyone on the forum done comparison tests between regular niacin and nicotinamide, to see if the latter has any effect on POIS?

I have been taking 1000mg Niacinamide (not Nicotinamide) and I am told it is a non-flushing type and its been working very well.... at 1000mg dose few hours before.... but I have noted that taking it daily and having O when ever seems also to work decently also.....

And I need to also say AGAIN that my brain fog left once I stopped taking caffeine, no coffee, no softdrink/soda with caffeine, no chocolate.....

However I still suffer from anger, some social withdrawl, and as long as I am on Niacinamide the all over horrible body feelings are down 70%

PS.

A new and enouraging development: when I read POIS-SUFFERER's response, I was somewhat surprised.  Niacinamide (= Nicotinamide) is a non-flushing form of niacin.  So, since we had generally had been attributing the success of both niacin and XN to its flushing properties, then one would think that the non-flushing form wouldn't be effective for POIS.  But, it apparently *was* working for POIS-SUFFERER.  So, what to make of this seeming contradiction?

I said to myself, "Hmmm, what would Galileo do?"  So, I went out and got a bottle of Niacinamide (which is a non-flushing form -- not the same as 'slow release niacin', which *is* flushing, but has a spread-out, rather than concentrated effect).  Last night, I took two 550 mg capsules, for a total of 1100 mg.  There was no flush whatsoever.  Two and a half hours after taking the capsules, I had an O.  The next day: essentially 90% POIS-free!!!  Possibly even 95%! And, this was in terms of basically all of my normal POIS symptoms: brain fog, mood, concentration, energy.   Definitely a noticeable difference even from the effect of my last trial, with 300 mg of the regular (flushing) variety of niacin, and which had worked pretty well (80-85%).   It may be that the overall amount (1100 mg vs. 300 mg) had something to do with it as well.

So, while I'll have to test it again to rule out one-time effect or placebo, the non-flushing Niacinamide seems pretty clearly to have worked *very* well.  This seems to reconfigure our basic hypotheses about why niacin works: from this result, it would seem that it is not the flushing that makes a difference at all!  Rather, it would seem to have to be some property that regular (flushing) niacin also shares with the non-flushing variety.

So, what is that property?  Not sure at this point, but even just this result can help point us in the proper direction.  I will certainly be testing it again, and others may want to try Niacinamide/Nicotinamide to see how your results compare to the flushing variety.  In my case, it was also an added bonus not to have to experience the flush, which was often pretty uncomfortable for me with the itching/heat.

We shall see...
Guthrie, keep us posted on how the Niacinamide is working.  I agree with you that the flush may not have anything to do with the effectiveness of Niacin on pois.  I stated earlier that in the medical field that the flush is a side effect and has no effect on any of the therapeutic uses we have for Niacin.  What I am trying to say is that I don't know of any uses for niacin in medicine where the flush needs to be felt to have a therapeutic effect on the patient.  It would be nice to see some more tests by people so we can determine the effectiveness of flush free niacin, which would be better to take to aviod having a flush every time especially for people who highly sensitive to the niacin flush.  I personally took 50mg a few years back and had the worst possible reaction. 
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on September 24, 2011, 12:24:28 AM
Quote from: POIS-SUFFERER
Quote from: Guthrie
Has anyone on the forum done comparison tests between regular niacin and nicotinamide, to see if the latter has any effect on POIS?

I have been taking 1000mg Niacinamide (not Nicotinamide) and I am told it is a non-flushing type and its been working very well.... at 1000mg dose few hours before.... but I have noted that taking it daily and having O when ever seems also to work decently also.....

And I need to also say AGAIN that my brain fog left once I stopped taking caffeine, no coffee, no softdrink/soda with caffeine, no chocolate.....

However I still suffer from anger, some social withdrawl, and as long as I am on Niacinamide the all over horrible body feelings are down 70%

PS.

A new and enouraging development: when I read POIS-SUFFERER's response, I was somewhat surprised.  Niacinamide (= Nicotinamide) is a non-flushing form of niacin.  So, since we had generally had been attributing the success of both niacin and XN to its flushing properties, then one would think that the non-flushing form wouldn't be effective for POIS.  But, it apparently *was* working for POIS-SUFFERER.  So, what to make of this seeming contradiction?

I said to myself, "Hmmm, what would Galileo do?"  So, I went out and got a bottle of Niacinamide (which is a non-flushing form -- not the same as 'slow release niacin', which *is* flushing, but has a spread-out, rather than concentrated effect).  Last night, I took two 550 mg capsules, for a total of 1100 mg.  There was no flush whatsoever.  Two and a half hours after taking the capsules, I had an O.  The next day: essentially 90% POIS-free!!!  Possibly even 95%! And, this was in terms of basically all of my normal POIS symptoms: brain fog, mood, concentration, energy.   Definitely a noticeable difference even from the effect of my last trial, with 300 mg of the regular (flushing) variety of niacin, and which had worked pretty well (80-85%).   It may be that the overall amount (1100 mg vs. 300 mg) had something to do with it as well.

So, while I'll have to test it again to rule out one-time effect or placebo, the non-flushing Niacinamide seems pretty clearly to have worked *very* well.  This seems to reconfigure our basic hypotheses about why niacin works: from this result, it would seem that it is not the flushing that makes a difference at all!  Rather, it would seem to have to be some property that regular (flushing) niacin also shares with the non-flushing variety.

So, what is that property?  Not sure at this point, but even just this result can help point us in the proper direction.  I will certainly be testing it again, and others may want to try Niacinamide/Nicotinamide to see how your results compare to the flushing variety.  In my case, it was also an added bonus not to have to experience the flush, which was often pretty uncomfortable for me with the itching/heat.

We shall see...
Guthrie, keep us posted on how the Niacinamide is working.  I agree with you that the flush may not have anything to do with the effectiveness of Niacin on pois.  I stated earlier that in the medical field that the flush is a side effect and has no effect on any of the therapeutic uses we have for Niacin.  What I am trying to say is that I don't know of any uses for niacin in medicine where the flush needs to be felt to have a therapeutic effect on the patient.  It would be nice to see some more tests by people so we can determine the effectiveness of flush free niacin, which would be better to take to aviod having a flush every time especially for people who highly sensitive to the niacin flush.  I personally took 50mg a few years back and had the worst possible reaction. 
I don't think anyone stated anywhere that the flush is needed to prevent POIS symptoms. I think no one said so. But it was told that it is recommended to seek for the flush at the start of taking Niacin. Because flush is an indicator that you indeed have Niacin and when flush goes out it is a good indicator that you have waited long enough and could proceed with O. But the flush is just an indicator.

With XN injections sometimes I have no flush at all, and the only parameter that matters is the dosage. With Niacin Acid tablets even when I have flush I might have break down into POIS if I choose too little dose or use bad tablets or don't wait long enough after taking tablets. The same is true for XN tablets. Only the quality of tablets, the timing and the dosage really matters. The flush is just indicator.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on September 24, 2011, 06:57:40 AM
Victor, can you say your POIS over that year got worse or better. If you dont take niacin will your reaction be worse or better than a year ago? Secondly, are you thinking about desensitization or are you happy with your situation?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on September 24, 2011, 07:09:31 AM
Victor indicates:
The flush is just indicator.

I read somewhere, that the niacin flush, according to docotrs is an indication that you have reached your sturation level of niacin.

For instance, someone who most needs niacin normally requires more niacin. Each of us has our level, depending on a number of factors. So without the flush it is more difficult to know if you have taken enough or even perhpas more than you require.

It is interesting though what Guthrie says, about how he feels that taking a heavier dose seems to work even better. So we are going to have to experiment.

However, given that we all have different requirement levels, the flush is still a good reference point.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on September 24, 2011, 11:40:43 AM
Victor, can you say your POIS over that year got worse or better. If you dont take niacin will your reaction be worse or better than a year ago? Secondly, are you thinking about desensitization or are you happy with your situation?
I think my POIS is the same, but the state of the body is better in the sense I am more productive. If I don't take Niacin at first reaction will be better, because the body is not so exhausted, but the reaction is still very strong. I am happy that I shouldn't fight with POIS 2/3 of life time, but I do think about desensitization, and as usual no time for myself.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: silverandcol on September 24, 2011, 03:59:53 PM
Interesting discovery here guys, even kind of scary haha.  I took 250 mg of niacin and then prepared to wait an hour before ejaculating.  However I decided to take a nice warm shower.  And what would you know.  In 20 mins I was feeling super flushed.  I have never been this flushed before and it is making me freak out.  I think the warm shower really helped increase the action of the Niacin.  So instaed of the one hour wait with resistance to niacin over using it for a month, I was able to get an extreme flush in 15 mins. 

Guys might want to try that if you don't want a one hour wait before orgasm =D.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on September 24, 2011, 05:16:34 PM
Did you try the orgasm before the hour? If so how did it go?? Not the orgasm, the POIS  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: silverandcol on September 24, 2011, 08:45:33 PM
Yeh I did, I am not feeling more then 20% POIs, but I need to wait for tommorw and see what is up.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: lauracostis on September 24, 2011, 11:54:18 PM
Victor indicates:
The flush is just indicator.

I read somewhere, that the niacin flush, according to docotrs is an indication that you have reached your sturation level of niacin.

For instance, someone who most needs niacin normally requires more niacin. Each of us has our level, depending on a number of factors. So without the flush it is more difficult to know if you have taken enough or even perhpas more than you require.

It is interesting though what Guthrie says, about how he feels that taking a heavier dose seems to work even better. So we are going to have to experiment.

However, given that we all have different requirement levels, the flush is still a good reference point.

here is something interesting I found:

"One simple test you can do yourself is to get some nicotinic acid in a 50mg dose. Nicotinic acid is the flush producing niacin. If you have a flush from one dose of 50mg of nicotinic acid (taken on any empty stomach) then you have histamine levels.
A low histamine person would probably require a dose of about 250mg of nicotinic acid to have that flush. If no flush from 50mg of nicotinic acid then you might try 100mg dose to double check this. If that doesn't work you might try once more a total of 200mg or 250mg of nicotinic acid just to make sure that you do in fact have low histamine levels and that supplement is the kind to cause a flush."
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: b_jim on September 25, 2011, 04:41:04 AM
My last experience wasn't good. I will increase to 60 then 80mg. But I don't think Pois can be only a niacin deficiency. Autumn is coming and the temps are lower. After orgasm, I become much more sensible to cold. Autoimmune is still the best theory for me.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on September 25, 2011, 07:39:43 AM
B_Jim,

Trying to be as flexible as possible, although I agree with you, IF there is a niacin deficiency, one would have to identify the cause of the deficiency.

There may be a B3 deficiency or a B3 dependancy. The former impies that we are low in B3, the latter implies that we don't use the B3 that we have in an efficient way or need more than most.

There are many reasons that this could happen.

Of course my favorite is that, as a result of very high histamine demand, our B3 is heavily consumed. This leads to a deficiency which doesn't leave any important material for construction of neurotransmitters that the brain needs. (dopamine, serotonine etc.).

I feel as though that's why it works when taken prior to orgasm. If we take it prior, we build a good store of B3 for the heavy histamine production to follow. As such, there still remains a good supply for other production required in the chain that follows.

If we take it after, it;s too late. The principal orgasmic chain tries to do it's thing whith what is available, and falls short. Taking it later does little as the production phases of the chain have passed. This might also explain why a subsequent orgasm after taking more B3 has significant effect in recuperation.

It's like feeding the beast when it's hungry. Once it's sick, it doesn't want to eat!! :)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: b_jim on September 26, 2011, 02:04:46 AM
Sorry my mood is bad these last days.
I wil post something about histamines on the histamines's topic.

Edit : I don't know. A lot of arguments are difficult to explain
-Animus case
-Demographx's case
-Anti-histamines don't work.
-The delayed's cases (flu-like symptoms coming after several hours)
 
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on September 26, 2011, 11:33:35 AM
B_Jim,

It would be wonderful if we had explanations for all of this.

I have my opinions, and can expalin every point you mention above, but in the end, until we actually have a proper research program in place, we just won't know for sure.

We just have to get beyond this doubt. One thing this 4.5 years has shown, is that pointed in a real and positive direction, we ARE going to find the answers. But divided and all pushing in separate directions we just aren't going to advance. Anyways.... hope your mood improves. for your sake.  :) :)

Thanks for the post to come in histamines.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Egordon on September 26, 2011, 11:46:17 PM
Hey Guys,

I just took 400 mg of niacin (on an empty stomach, of course) -- a big dose, i know -- pre-O and had a kind of interesting experience. Because the supplements i've been taking have about 100mg of niacin, i've built up a higher tolerance for it, and, as a result, it take a lot for me to get a flush these days. So I took a big dose, still didn't get a flush and O'd anyways, in hopes that it would still have the desired effect. Although my physical symptoms are gone -- there's little burning in my eyes or tension in my shoulders -- my cognitive symptoms only seem to have been reduced by about 50%. This is unfortunate because when I first started niacin, I'd get a decent flush at 200mg, and that flush would take care of about 80 - 90% of my cognitive dysfunction.

In any case, this experience makes me think that niacin's effectiveness is related to the flush, rather than just taking a sufficient dose. Have any of you had experiences that contradict this?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: lauracostis on September 26, 2011, 11:47:53 PM
B_Jim,

Trying to be as flexible as possible, although I agree with you, IF there is a niacin deficiency, one would have to identify the cause of the deficiency.

There may be a B3 deficiency or a B3 dependancy. The former impies that we are low in B3, the latter implies that we don't use the B3 that we have in an efficient way or need more than most.

There are many reasons that this could happen.

Of course my favorite is that, as a result of very high histamine demand, our B3 is heavily consumed. This leads to a deficiency which doesn't leave any important material for construction of neurotransmitters that the brain needs. (dopamine, serotonine etc.).

I feel as though that's why it works when taken prior to orgasm. If we take it prior, we build a good store of B3 for the heavy histamine production to follow. As such, there still remains a good supply for other production required in the chain that follows.

If we take it after, it;s too late. The principal orgasmic chain tries to do it's thing whith what is available, and falls short. Taking it later does little as the production phases of the chain have passed. This might also explain why a subsequent orgasm after taking more B3 has significant effect in recuperation.

It's like feeding the beast when it's hungry. Once it's sick, it doesn't want to eat!! :)

If anyone goes into the doctor to get a blood lab of any type, ask the doc to add histamine and b3 levels onto the test.

dave the only way the histamine theory works is if the first part of pois is high histamine levels followed by deficient histamine levels that have all been used up for the second part of pois.  I look at the signs of high level and low levels.  Half of each of the symptoms listed fit well, the other half are the exact opposite, so  maybe it could be beneficial to try and separate these symptoms into first and second parts of pois.  if the first part(not half, because they may not be equal in length)fits high histamine levels and the second distinct part fits low histamine levels, then we might have something.  

this web page does a good job of ranking symptoms:   http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C376401.html
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: b_jim on September 27, 2011, 01:05:44 AM
" first part of pois is high histamine levels followed by deficient histamine levels that have all been used up for the second part of pois "

It's the conclusion I gave in my post on histamine topic. But for the first part I'm sceptic. There are some interractions between histamine and B3 but not so easy to understand.

Anyway, I'm  taking b3 for the moment.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on September 27, 2011, 09:28:46 AM
In any case, this experience makes me think that niacin's effectiveness is related to the flush, rather than just taking a sufficient dose. Have any of you had experiences that contradict this?
Yes, there were experiences that contradict this and these experiences were described in this thread too many times already.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Egordon on September 27, 2011, 05:35:17 PM
In any case, this experience makes me think that niacin's effectiveness is related to the flush, rather than just taking a sufficient dose. Have any of you had experiences that contradict this?
Yes, there were experiences that contradict this and these experiences were described in this thread too many times already.

Victor


Where? Can someone help me find them?

EDIT: Found them. It seems Guthrie, Observer, POIS Sufferer and Viktor have had better results. Maybe I need to stop taking niacin for awhile to see if i'm just being nostalgic about how much the flush did for me. I mean, I certainly felt better than I ordinarily would have after taking it without the flush, i just remember getting even better results in the past though.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: silverandcol on September 28, 2011, 10:31:43 PM
Yea I also realized that being tired and having little sleep allows me to trigger a very strong flush reaction.  In fact it was so strong yesterday, I was itching all over and turning bright red.  I almost thought I was going to have an allergic reaction lol.  Anyway it helped keep most of the POIS away tthe next day. Keep in mind was using it 250mg of Niacin 3 days a week in close proximity.  It still gave a positive reaction.  I wonder if the Niacin is causing the body to have allergic reaction to the niacin which distracts it from when you orgasm.  Maybe...
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: lauracostis on September 30, 2011, 08:17:52 PM
Yea I also realized that being tired and having little sleep allows me to trigger a very strong flush reaction.  In fact it was so strong yesterday, I was itching all over and turning bright red.  I almost thought I was going to have an allergic reaction lol.  Anyway it helped keep most of the POIS away tthe next day. Keep in mind was using it 250mg of Niacin 3 days a week in close proximity.  It still gave a positive reaction.  I wonder if the Niacin is causing the body to have allergic reaction to the niacin which distracts it from when you orgasm.  Maybe...
maybe a large amount of histamine was used up not allowing white blood cells to release them later during orgasm to target a specific immune response against semen or some other antigen that may be responsible for pois.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Guthrie on October 01, 2011, 01:30:58 PM
Yea I also realized that being tired and having little sleep allows me to trigger a very strong flush reaction.  In fact it was so strong yesterday, I was itching all over and turning bright red.  I almost thought I was going to have an allergic reaction lol.  Anyway it helped keep most of the POIS away tthe next day. Keep in mind was using it 250mg of Niacin 3 days a week in close proximity.  It still gave a positive reaction.  I wonder if the Niacin is causing the body to have allergic reaction to the niacin which distracts it from when you orgasm.  Maybe...
maybe a large amount of histamine was used up not allowing white blood cells to release them later during orgasm to target a specific immune response against semen or some other antigen that may be responsible for pois.

Yes, in terms of histamine, it seems like two opposite possibilities have been floated on our forum: 1) the POIS symptoms are related to a release of histamine; and niacin causes a release of histamine beforehand, using it up, so that it is not released with orgasm, and so does not trigger the immune response.  *OR* 2) The POIS symptoms are related a deficiency of histamine.  Taking niacin produces more histamine, so that the normal amount of histamine can present with orgasm.

So do we have too much histamine, or not enough?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: lauracostis on October 02, 2011, 01:45:09 AM
Yea I also realized that being tired and having little sleep allows me to trigger a very strong flush reaction.  In fact it was so strong yesterday, I was itching all over and turning bright red.  I almost thought I was going to have an allergic reaction lol.  Anyway it helped keep most of the POIS away tthe next day. Keep in mind was using it 250mg of Niacin 3 days a week in close proximity.  It still gave a positive reaction.  I wonder if the Niacin is causing the body to have allergic reaction to the niacin which distracts it from when you orgasm.  Maybe...
maybe a large amount of histamine was used up not allowing white blood cells to release them later during orgasm to target a specific immune response against semen or some other antigen that may be responsible for pois.

Yes, in terms of histamine, it seems like two opposite possibilities have been floated on our forum: 1) the POIS symptoms are related to a release of histamine; and niacin causes a release of histamine beforehand, using it up, so that it is not released with orgasm, and so does not trigger the immune response.  *OR* 2) The POIS symptoms are related a deficiency of histamine.  Taking niacin produces more histamine, so that the normal amount of histamine can present with orgasm.

So do we have too much histamine, or not enough?
are you still getting good results from niacinimide
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: b_jim on October 02, 2011, 07:32:52 AM
I think Guthrie is right :)
Anyway, another guy told me niacin seems to improve his pois.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Guthrie on October 02, 2011, 07:35:16 PM
are you still getting good results from niacinimide

Yes, I had another O on Thursday night, two hours after taking 1100 mg niacinamide.  I had about 85-90% symptom reduction the next day. 

Also, I had an unplanned O Saturday night, without taking any niacinamide.  But, my POIS today while worse compared to the niacinidamide-aided episode, was still somewhat milder than the full 'normal' POIS.  So I wonder whether the niacinamide might have had some carry-over from thee days before, and if so, whether perhaps taking Niacin every day might be useful for building up its POIS-fighting properties.  Perhaps it's something to test in the future.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: lauracostis on October 03, 2011, 06:44:40 PM
are you still getting good results from niacinimide

Yes, I had another O on Thursday night, two hours after taking 1100 mg niacinamide.  I had about 85-90% symptom reduction the next day. 

Also, I had an unplanned O Saturday night, without taking any niacinamide.  But, my POIS today while worse compared to the niacinidamide-aided episode, was still somewhat milder than the full 'normal' POIS.  So I wonder whether the niacinamide might have had some carry-over from thee days before, and if so, whether perhaps taking Niacin every day might be useful for building up its POIS-fighting properties.  Perhaps it's something to test in the future.


interesting, thanks Guthrie
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on October 07, 2011, 07:07:57 PM
It is like that i have never had POIS. During this days i have had 2-3 orgasms when i decided, and because i wanted. And i feel like i was feeling 7 years ago, when i did not have POIS. The ejaculation is not triggering any kind of symptoms: I am Full of energy, optimistic, clear-thinking, more focused and more motivated. I could say right now that i am happy. POIS have made me a different person; i got the feeling sometimes that i have missed a lot of things over the last years, but it does not matter anymore; i am happy right now, i have a lovely gf which has show me inmense understanding&help  and i am able to go out and socialize giving the best of myself just after having an o.

Yesterday , i took again 200 mg of Niacin. I did not get the flush, at least i did not notice it. And i ejaculated like more than an hour after; the result was the same: No POIS. Every day i feel better, but the last question remains for me: Why? . I will not rest until i get this question answered.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Egordon on October 08, 2011, 01:32:56 PM
So, i've got a new gf and have been taking 300mg of Niacin before, ya know, and despite not feeling an especially large flush I've gotten a 90%+ reduction in symptoms. You guys were absolutely right! Sorry about the skepticism. I've also noticed that when I "have to" take twice within say 18-20 hours, I feel terrific about 5 hours later. Like at 100%. I mean, it could be the afterglow from all that action, but it makes me wonder if some of us would see major benefits from adding a BIG dose of Niacin to our diets everyday. It also makes me wonder if the 1000mg+ slow release tablets would have any effect if they were taken with regularity.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: mellivora on October 17, 2011, 04:37:52 PM
An updated version of the summary in this post can be found at the following link. As new observations of using Niacin and Xanthinol are posted on the forum, I shall add them to the summary
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=235.msg2958#msg2958


This thread is getting quite long! I've read it from start to finish today and decided to bring together all the posts so far in a sort of summary. I'm also seeing Dr Goldmeier tomorrow and wanted a summary to send him. If you think I have misinterpreted your posts please let me know. Also let me know if you've anything to add. For those listed on here,
it might be useful to have a two line summary of your usual POIS symptoms so we can see whether you are a sufferer with mostly cognitive or physical symptoms or both so I can add you in. (sorry I haven't had time to go through and pull out your symptoms from old posts - its taken all dat to read and digest everything already). I hope what I've done is accurate and OK. If I haven't included you and you want to be included in the list please let me know. Perhaps this info would have been better in a spreadsheet but this is what I've had time to do and I'm not sure everything fits neatly into a spreadsheet yet...

Summary of POIS sufferers' experiences with Niacin/Niacinamide/Xanthinol Nicotinate taken from the forum POISCENTER.COM
[/b]

Unless otherwise stated 'Niacin' below means nicotinic acid in tablet form.

Forum member username is in bold capitals followed by a summary of the experiences of that member. Each paragraph below the username usually represents a new trial or set of trials by that person.



Positive niacin/xanthinol nicotinate/nicotinamide experiences
[/b]

VIKTOR.KONS (mostly cognitive symptoms but developed physical symptoms including aches later in life)

Injects 0.5ml Xanthil Nicotinate up to 3 hours before sex. Gets a mild flush No or virtually no POIS symptoms. Tried this for over a year with 4-6 orgasms per week and 2 to 3 per day. He never had to increase the dose to continue the effectiveness.

Tried injecting 1ml Niacin instead of Xanthil Nicotinate. Took more time to have the flush. No POIS symptoms (Orgasm 25mins after injection). However, this is just one day after having Xanthil Nicotinate so possibly there was still some influence from the XN. Second try with (1ml?) niacin injection – bad stomach but could have been alcohol induced. Felt “on the edge of POIS”

tried 600mg Xanthil Nicotinate tablets: very strong flush in 6 mins. NO POIS symptoms but felt “unhealthy”

100mg Niacin tablet: no flush (possibly didn't take enough). 1st day after orgasm: POIS symptoms experienced at 10-20% normal level. 2nd day: no symptoms.

300mg Niacin tablet: felt an increase in strength, heart was working better (this is after long day at work when he was feeling tired and heart (rate?) had gone down. Felt flush in 5 mins and in an hour it was strong. NO POIS SYMPTOMS

150mg Niacin tablet 1 hour before orgasm. Has tried this 3 times and each time had no symptoms.

200mg powdered Niacin. Flush in 5 mins. NO POIS SYMTOMS. (Reports that there were no negative feelings in the stomach which he'd sometimes had with non-powdered tablets).


JIVETALK
Was taking niacin regularly (100mg twice per day). Then took 300mg prior to orgasm. POIS symptoms remained at about 60-70% intensity.

Stopped taking the regular 100mg doses of niacin. Then about 45mins before orgasm took 300mg. Felt the flush during orgasm. Initially felt good with only minor symptoms. Next day, no symptoms and then later in afternoon about 60% symptom intensity.

300mg Niacin tablets 60 mins before orgasm. Woke feeling very hot but no symptoms. Subsequently, every few hours POIS symptoms started appearing but, each time, taking a 100mg niacin tablet made them recede (happened 5 times – total 500mg niacin taken throughout this day and about 10% symptoms overall throughout this day). Day3: slight head pressure but not like POIS. 4th day: no POIS at all, “feel great”.

Monday night: 300mg Niacin 40 mins before orgasm. No initial brain fog, slept fine. Tues morning: no brain fog then later 5-10%. Tues night: 300mg Niacin 40 mins before orgasm. No brain fog. Wed morning: no pois symptoms.

Has subsequently been taking 100-200mg Niacin on the day of orgasm. POIS symptoms are consistently reduced to 10-20% of normal intensity.

GUTHRIE
300mg Niacin on a mostly empty stomach 40 mins before orgasm. Flush appeared in 5 mins. Flush lasted about 1 hour continuing 20mins after orgasm. Felt better than usual initially. Later in evening, POIS symptoms appeared. Next day POIS symptoms were only 15-20% usual intensity.

Subsequently tried several trials with 100-200mg Niacin. Flushed but not for as long. However, POIS symptoms were not reduced as much as with the initial 300 mg trial.

Tried 300mg again, 2 hours prior to orgasm. Next day, POIS was only 15-20% intensity.

Took two 1100mg Niacinamide (non-flushing) 2.5hours prior to orgasm. No flush. Next day, all symptoms were only 5-10% usual intensity.Reports feeling better than after the 300mg niacin trials.

Thursday night: 1100mg niacinamide. Next day, 10-15% symptoms. Also, unplanned orgasm saturday night. Milder symptoms than normal (is there a residual effect from the niacinamide?) but not as big a reduction in symptoms as just after taking Niacinamide.

POIS_SUFFERER
Been taking 1000mg Niacinamide (not nicotinamide), non-flushing. It's been working well


B_DANIEL

450mg of xan-pro tablets (Xanthinol Nicotinate). Mild flush for 20mins. Then had orgasm. Next day, POIS symptoms only 20% usual intensity (and symptoms seemed to fade away later in the day?)

In subsequent weeks: has been taking 1.5 (150mg) XN tablets one hour before orgasm. He can have 3 orgasms within a few hours after taking XN with only minor POIS creeping in one-two days later.  Only takes tablets on empty stomach otherwise doesn't have the flush.

Tried Niacin (quantity unspecified) 5 hours before orgasm. It didn't appear to be effective taken that long before orgasm.

KING KONG

300mg Niacin 30 mins before orgasm. If he does not sleep about one hour after orgasm he has symptoms of 40-50% normal. If he sleeps for maximum 1 hour after orgasm and then wakes up, his symptoms are only 10% normal intensity.

The day 1 after orgasm he takes regular 100mg doses to help keep POIS symptoms away (up to max 900mg for the day). Day 2 after orgasm he takes 100mg in morning and 100mg in afternoon and symptoms are 10% intensity. Day 3 100mg tablet keeps symptoms at 5% intensity. Day 4: a 100mg tablet and he has no POIS symptoms



HURRAY
(mostly cognitive/brain fog symptoms)
Has done two trials of the following: 250mg Niacin prior to orgasm. He gets the flush. After orgasm, symptoms are 30-40% usual intensity.

KK (not sure if this is the same person as King Kong? POIS lasts 5-7days and is worst on days 3 and 4).

300mg one hour after dinner. No flush. The day after orgasm, symptoms were 70-90% intensity.

3 days later: 300mg after dinner. Did get a flush but not until 2.5hours after taking tablets. He had already orgasmed by then, Same results as last time but by day 4 he felt almost back to normal (usually 3rd and 4th days are the worst for him)

500mg Niacin about 12 hours after dinner. Had flush lasting 10mins. Orgasm soon after. Next day symptoms were 30-40% intensity. Days 2 and 3 were even better.

300mg about 12 hours after dinner. Same results as the previous trial.

STARSKY

did his own allergy test with and without taking 300mg Xanthinol Nicotinate. Putting semen on his skin and waiting 30mins usually gives him a reaction. If he has taken XN, he doesn't get a reaction. 6 hours after taking XN, the skin reaction to semen comes back to its 'normal' level.

VINCENT MARKUS

100mg Niacin after dinner. Orgasm 1 hour after. Didn't notice a flush but seemed to have more energy than normal in the afternoon of the following day.

200mg Niacin 10 hours after eating. Flush about 30mins after taking tablets. Orgasmed as flush wore off. Felt a bit tired but could think clearly (can't usually). Had a couple more orgasms in the night. Next day felt ok but not 100%. His general stamina and physical energy were increased.


OBSERVER
Had a nocturnal emission.  Had POIS symptoms. Ate a light breakfast. Took 100 mg Niacin. Intense flush. 50 minutes later – had an orgasm. No POIS symptoms.

200mg Niacin. Weak flush. Orgasm 1 hour later. No POIS symptoms

100mg Niacin. No flush (was after a meal) so took 200mg more. Moderate flush. Orgasm 1 hour later. No POIS symptoms.

200mg weak flush. Orgasm a little after the flush. Some POIS symptoms (mild brain fog)

Next day and with some POIS: 200mg Niacin (on empty stomach). Intense flush. No POIS symptoms (maybe a lttle tired in morning but fine in afternoon.

Has repeated several trials with 200mg since without suffering POIS symptoms

EGORDON

200mg Niacin. Flush. Only 10-20% cognitive symptoms after orgasm.

After this initial success, he took supplements including 100mg Niacin/day. Then he took 400mg Niacin on top. No flush. Orgasmed anyway. Usual physical symptoms (burning in eyes and tension in shoulders) mostly didn't appear. Cognitive symptoms about 50% intensity.

300mg Niacin (not sure if he's stopped the regular 100mg doses at this point). Large flush. POIS is less than 10% intensity.

Orgasming twice (each with 300mcg? Niacin before) in 18-20hrs leads to him feeling “terrific” 5 hours later. No POIS symptoms.


Negative niacin results/ other observations:
[/b]

GABIN (russian forum member):
Tried  niacin tablets in doses 200-250mg. Reported that it had no effect on POIS symptoms.

JON
200mg in the morning. Didn't feel much effect(ie no flush) and didn't orgasm either. Took a further 400mg at night.Only felt a little tingling (no significant flush). Then orgasmed but there was no POIS prevention.

Took nearly 500mg Niacin. The more he became aroused the more he felt a lot of heat in his head (not sure if this was a flush, it didn't really pass). This was one hour after taking Niacin. Afterwards (presume after orgasm?) felt “crippled", couldn't get up, nerves were sensitive. Wasn't painful to move, just difficult. Groin very sensitive. Doesn't think it helped POIS although a week later perhaps he was more recovered than usual.

Almost 500mg Niacin. Again only a little tingling in the face, no real flush. Orgasmed and sleep was “uncomfortable”. Very irritating to move like he's frozen in bed. Felt a little better than usual the first day after orgasm but POIS symptoms still there.

We are not sure if Jon took flushing or non-flushing or slow-release niacin.

HABIBOU
Ate bread and Nutella. Took Niacin 500mg on half-full stomach. Intense flush after 20mins. Orgasm about 1 hour later. Still got part of the flush after orgasm. Developed POIS symptoms.

CCCONFUCIUS

observed that the flush was “way worse” with 200mg Niacin than with 300mg Xanthinol nicotinate. Also noticed the Niacin “spiked” his heart rate.




Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: mellivora on October 17, 2011, 04:44:06 PM
Something from this thread that I think is worth flagging up again:
If Observer has an unplanned orgasm (don't we all!). He seems to be able to get rid of symptoms by taking his usual dose of Niacin and then having another orgasm. To me that's incredibly significant. I get symptoms for about 7 days after O and to be able to knock symptoms on the head like this even after an unplanned O would be amazing. I haven't tried Niacin yet so I don't know if it works for me. I plan to pick some up tomorrow and will report back.

Starsky's allergy test with and without Xanthinol nicotinate was also really interesting.

Thanks for all the tests everyone!! Good luck!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Vincent M on October 17, 2011, 06:07:22 PM
This thread is getting quite long! I've read it from start to finish today and decided to bring together all the posts so far in a sort of summary.

VINCENT MARKUS

100mg Niacin after dinner. Orgasm 1 hour after. Didn't notice a flush but seemed to have more energy than normal in the afternoon of the following day.

200mg Niacin 10 hours after eating. Flush about 30mins after taking tablets. Orgasmed as flush wore off. Felt a bit tired but could think clearly (can't usually). Had a couple more orgasms in the night. Next day felt ok but not 100%. His general stamina and physical energy were increased.


I'd like to add that the past few weeks I've taken 200mg of niacin on saturday night an hour or two after dinner and orgasm an hr after taking the niacin. I don't feel better immediately, but the next day  my physical energy and stamina increases allowing me to do heavy exercise for an hour or two.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on October 17, 2011, 07:35:01 PM
Something from this thread that I think is worth flagging up again:
If Observer has an unplanned orgasm (don't we all!). He seems to be able to get rid of symptoms by taking his usual dose of Niacin and then having another orgasm. To me that's incredibly significant. I get symptoms for about 7 days after O and to be able to knock symptoms on the head like this even after an unplanned O would be amazing. I haven't tried Niacin yet so I don't know if it works for me. I plan to pick some up tomorrow and will report back.

Starsky's allergy test with and without Xanthinol nicotinate was also really interesting.

Thanks for all the tests everyone!! Good luck!

Thank you for your sumary Mellivora. I just only want to add that sometimes when i was suffering POIS in the past and i had another orgasm, my symptoms improved. The first time i used the niacin i had a NE as you said, but i only took 100 mg(very intense flush). That made me to recover to 10-20% POIS(still felt minor brain fog during that day/ the next day in some moments). I repeated the experiment tge time when i took the niacin but had the orgasm so soon that unfortunately i developed symptoms. Then, i waited to the next day, and had another good orgasm after taking 200 mg niacin - 1-2 hours after i was feeling very, very well, no POIS.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Guthrie on October 17, 2011, 08:11:30 PM
Mellirova -- AMAZING summary!! Thanks so much for compiling it -- it is really helpful to see all at once!

And, let us know what Dr. Goldmeier's response is to the nicain compilation-report!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Animus on October 18, 2011, 12:30:53 AM
Mellirova -- AMAZING summary!! Thanks so much for compiling it -- it is really helpful to see all at once!

And, let us know what Dr. Goldmeier's response is to the nicain compilation-report!

thank you for the summary Mel-
Animus
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: mellivora on October 18, 2011, 01:20:32 AM
Thanks for the feedback. I'll add in your new observations Vincent and modify yours as you describe Observer. Probably not until later today or tomorrow as my time is short this morning.


Meant to say:
B_Jim I haven't added you in yet. It sounds from your posts like you are building up from relatively smaller doses of Niacin so far but haven't had much success as yet?? I hope your future tests go ok. I'll add more when I'm clearer about where you are at.

Silverandcol: sorry, I know I've not added you yet either. I wasn't sure from your posts exactly what you have tried so far and the success rate you have had. If you could summarise your experiences for us in terms of what you have tried so far, what strength tablets, flush or not flush, when you take them (eg. amount of time before orgasm) and the effect it has had on your POIS symptoms that would be great. Also an idea of how many trials you have done so far would be useful. Then I'll add you to the summary. Thanks.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on October 18, 2011, 10:14:48 AM
Mellivora,

Thanks for your summary! I have been quite involved with personal concerns, and just recently saw this.

We should probably create a XN / Niacin summary thread which is just for your summary. We could still keep using this thread, and as certain precedure tend to surface we can include them to the summary thread.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: mellivora on October 18, 2011, 02:11:33 PM
Hi,
As I mentioned, I was scheduled to have another appointment with Dr Goldmeier today. When I got there, it turned out he couldn't be there today and I saw a member of his team who is primarily a psychologist. Unfortunately this means I couldn't discuss with him our niacin results (although I did outline them to his colleague anyway). However, I sent the summary our results so far to Dr Goldmeier  last night along with an introductory email explaining our progress so I hope to get a reply from him in due course and shall follow up if I don't hear from him.

I have started a new thread called "Potential opportunity to launch a scientific POIS study" under  "Funding a Research Grant" on this forum in reaction to a discussion I had with a colleague of Dr Goldmeier's today. Please go there and have a look. (you can click the link below)

http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=233.0 (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=233.0)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: mellivora on October 18, 2011, 03:11:22 PM


We should probably create a XN / Niacin summary thread which is just for your summary. We could still keep using this thread, and as certain precedure tend to surface we can include them to the summary thread.


Hi Daveman,
good idea! I shall create a new thread for the summary and update it as new results come in. I think I'll also have a line at the top which has the date of the last update and the username of the person who's trial it was. That way people will always know how up to date the summary is at any one time.
Thanks.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: mellivora on October 19, 2011, 02:31:32 AM
Quote

Thank you for your sumary Mellivora. I just only want to add that sometimes when i was suffering POIS in the past and i had another orgasm, my symptoms improved. The first time i used the niacin i had a NE as you said, but i only took 100 mg(very intense flush). That made me to recover to 10-20% POIS(still felt minor brain fog during that day/ the next day in some moments). I repeated the experiment tge time when i took the niacin but had the orgasm so soon that unfortunately i developed symptoms. Then, i waited to the next day, and had another good orgasm after taking 200 mg niacin - 1-2 hours after i was feeling very, very well, no POIS.


Observer, thanks, I'd like to clarify my understanding of some things you have written here before I modify the summary. Please forgive all my questions, I want to get this right..

(i)After your NE, you say you took 100mg which led to some recovery. Do you mean you just took 100mg Niacin (no O) or that you took 100mg and then had an O? Was this O 50 mins after your 100mg dose as in your original post? Also can you remember how long after the NE you had this second O?

(ii) Where you say "I repeated the experiment", do you mean you had another NE and then had an O after which you took niacin (but the O was too soon after the NE). And then next day you took 200mg Niacin and then had an O that resulted in no POIS symptoms?
Actually, when you say you had the O too soon, do you mean too soon after NE or too soon after taking the Niacin?

One more question! In the past when you were able to improve your POIS by having a second orgasm, did you ever notice there being a particular length of time after the first orgasm that the second should be to give an improvement in symptoms. ie. How long after the first O did you generally have the second O when it was effective. Or did this vary?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on October 19, 2011, 04:33:40 AM
Hi Mellivora;

(i) It was my original post.That was the first time i took the niacin and had an orgasm, because i have already taken the niacin but without an O., just to watch the effects and build up a dose for the appropiate time. I took 100 mg Niacin and then had an O after 50 minutes while i was having the effects of POIS due to a NE. The NE occured like 4-5 hours before taking the niacin and having the "flushed orgasm".

(ii) No, i don´t have another NE. The problem was that the orgasm was so soon: like 25-30 minutes after taking the niacin. Immediately after having the O. i knew that something had not gone very well and i was going to develop POIS symptoms. That afternoon/night i suffered brain fog, was not feeling well. Then the day after i had another O  after taking 200 mg niacin and my previous POIS symptoms were whipped of.

I do not remember any particular time-frame between that two orgasms. I remind that this happened to me few times, that i started to feel better after an O while in POIS, because the rule was, more orgasms ---> worse POIS, and the proportion was overwhelming like 9 vs 1 (worsening POIS vs improving POIS) .

I hope this answers your questions.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: mellivora on October 19, 2011, 10:38:29 AM
I have made a new thread for the summary of our niacin experiences here:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=235.msg2958#msg2958

I meant to call the thread FORUM SUMMARY: rather than just SUMMARY: but I can't seem to change that now. No problem really. The idea behind that thinking was that we can have other 'forum summaries in future on other topics that have long threads.

I'll continue to update the summary when I can as new posts about niacin are made. T At the top of the summary in italics, you can see how up to date the summary is at any one time. The posts are now in alphabetical order of username.

Observer, thanks for clarifying your post, please can you check I've updated your section correctly. Where you said:

(ii) No, i don´t have another NE. The problem was that the orgasm was so soon: like 25-30 minutes after taking the niacin.
I wasn't sure what dose of Niacin you took this time. For now I have put 100?mg...Do you remember what dose it was?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on October 19, 2011, 11:15:56 AM

Observer, thanks for clarifying your post, please can you check I've updated your section correctly. Where you said:

(ii) No, i didn´t have another NE. The problem was that the orgasm was so soon: like 25-30 minutes after taking the niacin.
I wasn't sure what dose of Niacin you took this time. For now I have put 100?mg...Do you remember what dose it was?

Yes,that time i took 200 mg like the other times. I think that the problem was that i did not wait too long after taking the niacin..
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: mellivora on October 20, 2011, 01:58:33 PM
Some words of caution:

I used Niacin for the first time yesterday after an unplanned O. I know it has been found by one or two forum members that it doesn't work if taken only after O. I wanted to try something that had worked for Observer - namely clearing symptoms by taking niacin and then orgasming again. Uncharacteristically for me,  I wasn't too careful with it and took more than I should have. I was so desperate to clear my symptoms for a fun day I had planned for today. Normally I am very cautious about any new med.  Anyway, I discovered this evening that I passed blood with my faeces indicating internal bleeding. I suspect this is for two reasons: (i) I took a fair bit of Niacin (nicotinic acid), especially for my first time (yesterday first 150mg (without O) then later in the day 300mg with O. This morning another 100mg. (ii) I have been taking glucosamine for a strained joint/tendons  in my finger. Both Niacin and glucosamine can cause bleeding. I knew this yet I still proceeded because I really wanted a result.

I shall report my experience more fully soon. For now let me remind everyone to be careful, take things slowly and monitor yourself closely with these experiments. POIS is terrible but we don't want to create other complications through our eagreness to cure ourselves. Briefly, my experiment doesn't seem to have  helped my symptoms. I am stopping glucosamine and it will be some time before I try Niacin again. Next time it will be before O only. I shall also try to visit a doctor for a checkup tomorrow.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Vincent M on October 20, 2011, 07:02:19 PM
mellivora, if you do take niacin again perhaps you should take it with food. Although this will prevent the flush some of us have found niacin still helps even without the flush. As I said previously I now take 200mg only once a week soon after dinner. I no longer get a flush because of this but i think i still get the same positive effects.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: JRD on October 21, 2011, 06:07:00 AM
I started taking Niacin (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VITAMIN-B-3-NIACIN-100mg-x100Caps-24Hr-Despatch-B3-/230534445413?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Vitamins_Supplements&hash=item35acec7965) on a regular basis last week (2x per day) and it really helps, but only if taken prior to orgasm, otherwise quite useless in terms of alleviation (what a find!).

I've also been augmenting myself with the whole variety of vitamins & minerals (including high doses of Zinc, Selenium, B12, etc.) without any noticeable success.

However, as I've found, the longer I abstain, the weaker the neuropsychiatric manifestation is, but I simultaneously start suffering from that "flu-like symptoms", which is quite new for me, since I've never been able to hold it out more than a few days. These symptoms usually start to kick in after 8-10 days of abstinence.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: mellivora on October 21, 2011, 11:25:21 AM
mellivora, if you do take niacin again perhaps you should take it with food. Although this will prevent the flush some of us have found niacin still helps even without the flush. As I said previously I now take 200mg only once a week soon after dinner. I no longer get a flush because of this but i think i still get the same positive effects.
Thanks Vincent, that's good advice. Interesting that you still get the same effect without the flush. Thanks

I started taking Niacin (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VITAMIN-B-3-NIACIN-100mg-x100Caps-24Hr-Despatch-B3-/230534445413?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Vitamins_Supplements&hash=item35acec7965) on a regular basis last week (2x per day) and it really helps, but only if taken prior to orgasm, otherwise quite useless in terms of alleviation (what a find!).

I've also been augmenting myself with the whole variety of vitamins & minerals (including high doses of Zinc, Selenium, B12, etc.) without any noticeable success.

However, as I've found, the longer I abstain, the weaker the neuropsychiatric manifestation is, but I simultaneously start suffering from that "flu-like symptoms", which is quite new for me, since I've never been able to hold it out more than a few days. These symptoms usually start to kick in after 8-10 days of abstinence.
JRD I'd like to add your experiences with Niacin to the Summary I've been compiling. Could you tell us what dose (eg. 100mg) of Niacin you have been taking please? How long before orgasm do you take it? And how strong are your symptoms after using Niacin compared to your symptoms without (eg. 10% of normal intensity )Thanks! I'm pleased to hear its working for you.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: mellivora on October 21, 2011, 11:42:28 AM
I saw my doc. He didn't seem too alarmed by the amount of Niacin I'd taken. He suspects I have a type of graze somewhere inside my anus. He didn't think the glucosamine or niacin should cause bleeding in the doses I took (though I've read of cases where they have caused bleeding  - doses unknown.). For now, my own theory is that yes, maybe I have an internal graze of some sort and I think the vasodilatory effect of Niacin possibly coupled with blood thinning/anticoagulant effects caused bleeding from this graze. I have in the past seen very slight signs of blood when I have wiped with toilet paper but only on occasion. I think this isnt too uncommon and sometimes its haemorrhoids (but not in my case). I think the Niacin aggravated it. It was much more bleeding than I'd seen before which caused me to post here. I will keep an eye on it. Anyway my word of caution still stands. Although I am normally a careful person, I got carried away in my desperation to get better in time for a particular occasion and I still think I took more than I should have for a first try.
Be careful but good luck with your trials!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: JRD on October 21, 2011, 12:25:43 PM
Quote
JRD I'd like to add your experiences with Niacin to the Summary I've been compiling. Could you tell us what dose (eg. 100mg) of Niacin you have been taking please? How long before orgasm do you take it? And how strong are your symptoms after using Niacin compared to your symptoms without (eg. 10% of normal intensity )Thanks! I'm pleased to hear its working for you.

Thanks. I use 100mg Nicotinic Acid from Nature's way and I took one capsule approximately 30 minutes before orgasm (I had an orgasm 3 times in two hours). I have to say it doesn't matter if I experience flush, which is most likely the result of taking a Niacin supplement on an empty stomach. However, I had both flush (quite strong) and non-flush episodes.

In terms of severity of the symptoms - I've been living in this cloudiness/moodiness/distorted perception since the age of 11 or 12 (I am 25yr old), but I've developed really heavy cognitive symptoms in the last few years. I haven't been able to abstain long enough to consider myself "stabilized", although I feel way better after about 10 days of abstaining. In the days after orgasm, I usually feel as if I was disconnected from my brain, unable doing simple math calculations, thinking properly and complex, to find the right word (name/number) and solve primitive problems, using analytical and logical skills, remembering and understanding something new, I am objectively sluggish and pseudo-retarted. I am socially anxious, withdrawn/incommunicative (unable to be), depressive, I feel worthless etc.

I would say, that using Niacin means my symptoms are more manageable, milder, although still at 30 - 40% of their intensity and fatique/weakness at 60 - 70%.

Btw: Is there anybody who has tried taking some kind of aphrodisiacs prior to orgasm?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on October 21, 2011, 10:37:48 PM
Quote
JRD I'd like to add your experiences with Niacin to the Summary I've been compiling. Could you tell us what dose (eg. 100mg) of Niacin you have been taking please? How long before orgasm do you take it? And how strong are your symptoms after using Niacin compared to your symptoms without (eg. 10% of normal intensity )Thanks! I'm pleased to hear its working for you.

Thanks. I use 100mg Nicotinic Acid from Nature's way and I took one capsule approximately 30 minutes before orgasm (I had an orgasm 3 times in two hours). I have to say it doesn't matter if I experience flush, which is most likely the result of taking a Niacin supplement on an empty stomach. However, I had both flush (quite strong) and non-flush episodes.I would say, that using Niacin means my symptoms are more manageable, milder, although still at 30 - 40% of their intensity and fatique/weakness at 60 - 70%.

JRD, I strongly suggest you to increase your dose to 200 mg. I think that my optimum dosage is near 200 mg prior to orgasm, and if it i take 100 mg i fell short(My symptoms improve a lot and POIS is reduced less than 36-48 hours.). Maybe you will feel better if you follow this advice. BTW i had another orgasm today, 200 mg niacin, 50 mins after i orgasmed. No POIS symptoms again, feeling happy.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on October 22, 2011, 06:25:39 AM
Let the flush be the guide.

Some have said the flush may not be necesary, and this may be true. But, as JRD has noticed, sometimes 100 mg gives him a strong flush and other times it doesn't. Also it's possible one can experiment positive results without the flush. And some have said that taking one dose beyond the flush is even better.

The flush is an indication that your body has reached a certain saturation point. One day and under certain conditions, that may be with 75 mg and on another day under different conditions that may be 250mg. But if you are saturated, you KNOW that you have the right level and can adjust from there.

So I don't think there is any one fixed dose. I think we will be trying careful experiments to adjust dosage (more or less niacin) based on the flush level. It will be good also to try some tests on fixed doses. I suspect we will find that those are less consistent.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: mellivora on October 23, 2011, 05:39:44 AM
Thanks. I use 100mg Nicotinic Acid from Nature's way and I took one capsule approximately 30 minutes before orgasm (I had an orgasm 3 times in two hours). I have to say it doesn't matter if I experience flush, which is most likely the result of taking a Niacin supplement on an empty stomach. However, I had both flush (quite strong) and non-flush episodes.
Thanks JRD, I have added you to the summary. One thing I'm not clear on:
in your original post you said
I started taking Niacin (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VITAMIN-B-3-NIACIN-100mg-x100Caps-24Hr-Despatch-B3-/230534445413?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Vitamins_Supplements&hash=item35acec7965) on a regular basis last week (2x per day) and it really helps, but only if taken prior to orgasm, otherwise quite useless in terms of alleviation (what a find!).
And in your 2nd post you said you took 100mg before orgasm. When you  say you are taking Niacin twice per day do you mean 100mg early in the day and another 100mg 30mins before O?
Are you taking regular doses of Niacin anyway (eg.daily) whether you orgasm or not?
Thanks
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: JRD on October 23, 2011, 07:59:16 AM
Quote
Are you taking regular doses of Niacin anyway (eg.daily) whether you orgasm or not?

Yes. I've experimented with 300mg today and no flush at all. I've probably built up a tolerance. My goal is also to improve my skin texure, which Niacin is an ideal supplement for.

Quote
And in your 2nd post you said you took 100mg before orgasm. When you  say you are taking Niacin twice per day do you mean 100mg early in the day and another 100mg 30mins before O?

No. I don't reach O every day, but when I decided to, I took it then, instead on my evening dose.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: mellivora on October 23, 2011, 03:34:59 PM
Thanks JRD. In case you haven't already read, you might find it interesting that, at the start of his trials, Jivetalk was taking 100mg Niacin twice per day and then would take 300mg before an O. However, when he stopped taking his daily doses and only took Niacin before O, he seemed to get much better results. Last we heard he was taking just 100-200mg before O with symptoms reduced to 10-20% intensity. So perhaps you might find you get better results by stopping your regular doses. It'd be interesting to see if your regular doses improve your skin texture though as you said you  are trying to do. All the best..
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Guthrie on October 23, 2011, 05:17:05 PM
Thanks JRD. In case you haven't already read, you might find it interesting that, at the start of his trials, Jivetalk was taking 100mg Niacin twice per day and then would take 300mg before an O. However, when he stopped taking his daily doses and only took Niacin before O, he seemed to get much better results. Last we heard he was taking just 100-200mg before O with symptoms reduced to 10-20% intensity. So perhaps you might find you get better results by stopping your regular doses.

A related update from my experiences: I tried taking one Niacinamide capsule (550 mg) each day for about a week, and then at the end of the week had an O in the evening, having taken an additional 550 mg about an hour before the O.  So that last day I took 550 mg in the morning, and another 550 mg in the evening.  Also, the evening 550 mg was taken relatively soon after eating, so it wasn't on a fully empty stomach.

The next day, I didn't experience the 85% improvement effect that I had previously achieved with Niacinamide-- it seemed like a pretty 'normal' POIS episode, or at most around 20-30% improvement.  So something wasn't working as well.

I stopped taking the 550 mg each day, and then at the end of the following week, had another O, having taken 1100 mg a couple hours before the O, on an empty stomach -- and then the next day, I had the 85% improvement effect again.

Now, there are a number of different factors that I can think of in comparing the not-effective episode with the effective episode:
1) The effective one was from taking the Niacinamide on an empty stomach, while the non-effective one involved a non-empty stomach.
2) The effective one involved taking 1100 mg shortly before O in the evening, while for the non-effective one I had taken 550 in the morning, and then 550 in the evening shortly before O.
3) For the effective one, I hadn't been taking Niaciniamide each day for a week beforehand, while for the non-effective one I had been taking Niacinamide each day for a week before hand.

I should also note that neither of the episodes involved any flushing.

So, which of the factors 1), 2), and 3) might have made a difference?  (Or another unknown factor.)  It could be the empty stomach factor, or it could be the 1100 vs 550 dosage, but in light of Jivetalk's experience, I might be inclined to say that the non-effective episode might have been from taking Niacinamide every day.  

So, to test this theory out, I will plan not to take it everyday, and I can try two different tests: I can try taking 1100 mg, but on a non-empty stomach; and, I can try taking 550 mg, but on an empty stomach.  I'll report back on how that goes.  But in general, it would be interesting if we could demonstrate that taking it every day reduces its effectiveness.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: silverandcol on November 02, 2011, 03:13:54 PM
So guys, have you all been using Niacin consistently now?  I have found my quality of life to be improving drastically by using it about 2-3 times a week.  Hopefully this way I won't become desensitized to it.  It appears the flushing is kind of important to feel no POIS the next days.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: b_jim on November 03, 2011, 06:27:46 AM
I'm taking now 120 mg of niacine 1-2 before ejaculation. I think the effect is real, but I prefer to test 1month more.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: mellivora on November 08, 2011, 08:57:25 AM
I have tried Niacin twice now.

Once taken AFTER an unplanned O. This was an attempt to get rid of symptoms by taking Niacin after the initial O and then having a second O. It didn't work for me and I had what I would describe as a normal POIS episode taking 1 week to recover.

Second trial: 200mg taken BEFORE O. This didn't work for me either. Again I couldn't distinguish the resulting symptoms from a normal POIS episode taking 1 week to recover.

I've posted my trials in a little more detail on the Niacin summary page:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=235.0

I realise this is only 1 trial of taking Niacin before O so I'm not writing off Niacin yet for me. I intend to test it again at some point.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on November 08, 2011, 02:19:54 PM
Thanks for the tests.

I think there has only been one report, or few at least, of someone who was relieved after the niacin before second orgasm to stop the symptoms of a first orgasm without. So it may not be surprising that this didn;t work.

Your second test however should have worked. the only thing I could see is that you weren't really far from your last lunch, but we haven't done a lot of tests to really define that relationship. All we know is that it's better on an empty stomach. But, even so, the measure seems to be realted to the flush. With a ful stomach it's alot more difficult to acheive a flush. In this case, you DID flush, so I don't think the stomach "content" counts in this case.



Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on November 12, 2011, 11:52:42 AM
I don't know how many of you know, but it's been REAL hard for me to get Niacin here in Chile. It is very difficult to import medications, I don't know, maybe they are protecting their maufactureres.

Finally I found a guy "official and everything", a friend of a pahramceuticals salesman I know, that has like drums of the various vitamines and usually puts together special recipes perscribed by doctors. Anyways, that's for my next phase.. But with the help of a lot of people who have tried to help "import", someone FINALLY got me a bottle of 100 capsules of 100mg through customs in their luggage! You get to feeling like you're importing heroine or something!!

Anyways, TODAY I FEEL BETTER THAN I'VE FELT IN AT LEAST A COUPLE OF YEARS!!

It's incredible!! I know that I am sensitive to medications, so I took 30mg just to test the waters.... as you can imagine, not much happened.

The next night I took the remaining 70mg.

We had a Friday night cocktail with chips, and then about a half hour later I took the niacin. I almost forgot about it because I wasn't expecting much. About 20 min. after taking the niacin we wnt to our bedroom to watch TV. As I was brushing my teeth the flush began, almost like getting up and moving around triggered it.

It felt like sunburn. The whole head, scalp, face and neck, also the backs of my hands. i even imagined that perhaps those areas had been exposed to sun, and the niacin exagerated it.

My heart began to beat more strongly, but it was a very solid and healthy beat. I could feel the blood coursing all through my body.

The flush (without much redness surprisingly) I'm quite fair skinned, lasted about 15 minute.

Well I told the wifey that we had to complete the test!!

The heart was strong and steady for a good 2 hrs afterwards. I could feel the blood coursing through my veins. I got to think that this was the main benefit. It was washing away all the bad right then and there.

Slept like a baby, woke up in the morning with very light POIS symptoms, lighter than I've had in at least a year in the best of times. Then it just got better!

By 11:30, I had been doing stuff, forgetting that I even had POIS. All day, I get a sensation of springtime and youth in my head. I feel freaken GREAT!

So we'll have to see how consistent this is, but first test VERY ENCOURAGING!!!!!!

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on November 12, 2011, 12:24:30 PM
You need to try XN. Its much better! Buy some stuff online. I can give you over PM some online stores which can ship it to Chile.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Ccconfucius on November 12, 2011, 02:26:13 PM
You need to try XN. Its much better! Buy some stuff online. I can give you over PM some online stores which can ship it to Chile.
if your heart beats right now slowly go up, it is going to beat harder.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on November 12, 2011, 06:59:29 PM

Anyways, TODAY I FEEL BETTER THAN I'VE FELT IN AT LEAST A COUPLE OF YEARS!!

Slept like a baby, woke up in the morning with very light POIS symptoms, lighter than I've had in at least a year in the best of times. Then it just got better!

By 11:30, I had been doing stuff, forgetting that I even had POIS. All day, I get a sensation of springtime and youth in my head. I feel freaken GREAT!

So we'll have to see how consistent this is, but first test VERY ENCOURAGING!!!!!!



Perfect Daveman, congratulations!!!. You are describing how i feel the first time i took the niacin and had an orgasm later. This vitamine is a gift from God, it seems.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on November 12, 2011, 07:02:22 PM
CC, you mean that I should be careful as I increase doses, because the heart beats harder with higher doses?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Ccconfucius on November 13, 2011, 08:13:22 PM
CC, you mean that I should be careful as I increase doses, because the heart beats harder with higher doses?
exactly that.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on November 14, 2011, 07:20:17 AM
Congratulations, Daveman!

The Niacin itself reduces tiredness for me too. I have now hard time with finding Niacin tablets, so I've switched back to XN injections for now. Currently I can find only Niacin tablets produced by VAT "Vitaminy", these tablets don't work for me, and I don't understand why. They are the same Niacin Acid tablets I used before, but they are just made by a different producer.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Ccconfucius on November 14, 2011, 03:44:25 PM
Congratulations, Daveman!

The Niacin itself reduces tiredness for me too. I have now hard time with finding Niacin tablets, so I've switched back to XN injections for now. Currently I can find only Niacin tablets produced by VAT "Vitaminy", these tablets don't work for me, and I don't understand why. They are the same Niacin Acid tablets I used before, but they are just made by a different producer.

Victor
that is the problem with vitamins you never sure if they are all potent.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: lauracostis on November 14, 2011, 07:18:20 PM
I would like to ask the forum members who are using the normal flush niacin (nicotinic acid) to try an experiment by replacing it with 1000mg of the non-flushing niacinamide or nicotinamide (they are the same molecule).  Guthrie has been able to get excellent results with niacinamide and this would tell us if the flush is a pertinent factor in reducing POIS symptoms.  Since the flush does not happen if you use niacin(nicotinic acid) more than a couple times in a row, it is hard know if the absence of the flush is causing the POIS not to be reduced as much or if we have just built up a tolerance to niacin.  What I want to do will separate the flush and the tolerance to niacin into separate areas.  This is the important kind of testing that needs to be done if we want to cure POIS.  We have found a cheap and readily accessible, over the counter supplement that has great potential in finding answers into the etiology of POIS.  Niacinamide is relativly cheap, I bought a bottle for 8$, it should not cost more than 10-20 dollars to do this important experiment per person.  If we want a cure we need to know if it is the niacin itself that is doing somthing or only the side effect of flushing which is doing somthing. 
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on November 15, 2011, 05:01:22 AM
Congratulations, Daveman!

The Niacin itself reduces tiredness for me too. I have now hard time with finding Niacin tablets, so I've switched back to XN injections for now. Currently I can find only Niacin tablets produced by VAT "Vitaminy", these tablets don't work for me, and I don't understand why. They are the same Niacin Acid tablets I used before, but they are just made by a different producer.

Victor
that is the problem with vitamins you never sure if they are all potent.
Thats why I think people shouldn't stop trying Niacin after first failed attempt. It might perfectly be the case that they've got Niacin of insufficient quality and because of that there is no effect. My opinion is that at least 2 - 3 different Niacin suppliers need to be tested to draw the conclusion that Niacin is inefficient for POIS-er person.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: mellivora on November 15, 2011, 06:58:08 AM
Quote
Thats why I think people shouldn't stop trying Niacin after first failed attempt. It might perfectly be the case that they've got Niacin of insufficient quality and because of that there is no effect. My opinion is that at least 2 - 3 different Niacin suppliers need to be tested to draw the conclusion that Niacin is inefficient for POIS-er person.

Victor

I've reported that Niacin didn't work for me when I tried it but that I'll be trying again. The fact that the Niacin gave me a strong flush leads me to believe that there isn't a quality issue with the Niacin. Nicotinic acid should be exactly that if that's what it says on the bottle. If there is significant variation in effectiveness between brands perhaps it is more likely due to the other constituents in the tablets (in the case of my tablets the ingredients are: Bulking agents (Dicalcium Phosphate, Microcrystalline cellulose), Niacin (as Nicotinic Acid), Anti-Caking agents (Stearic Acid, Silicon Dioxide, Magnesium Stearate), Sodium Carboxymethylcellulose, Glycerine, Sodium citrate. One could even hypothesise that its another ingredient present in some Niacin tablets but not others that is doing the job though that's not something I believe at the moment.

Of course I'm speculating but my guess would be that if Niacin hasn't worked for someone (as it didn't for me), it could be for many other reasons:

1. The person is already regularly getting enough Niacin from their diet (we have seen one or two cases on the forum  (eg. Jivetalk) where Nicotinic Acid taken regularly (eg. daily) has apparently reduced the effects of a dose later taken before orgasm. (Generally I do think my diet is very good).

2. The person might have a slightly different cause for his POIS that results in the same symptoms. If, for sake of argument,  the cause were say the lack of a certain hormone, the reason for that  might be a deficiency at a different point along the production chain of that hormone compared to other POIS sufferers but the end symptoms might be the same. (I'm not saying POIS is caused by insufficient quantities of a hormone - its just an illustration of how a subtly different cause could give the same symptoms but require a different treatment, eg an enzyme might be lacking instead of a precursor to the hormone).

3. The person might have a different 'version' of POIS altogether with a completely differerent cause. Variations in symptoms between sufferers have been reported since the forum began (eg. some don't have aches and mainly have cognitive symptoms whilst for others aches are a big problem)

4. There might have been something going on in the body of that person on the particular day /at the particular time that the Niacin was taken that means it wasn't effective on that occasion. Perhaps time of day in the context of that person's routine is important for some reason (as reported by Bitu).

As Victor said, it is important to try a promising potential remedy more than once before deciding it doesn't work for you..
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: mellivora on November 15, 2011, 07:03:11 AM
Out of interest:
The Niacin I tried is a UK brand: "Holland and Barrett Niacin 100mg". The ingredients are as listed in my previous post.

Has anyone for whom Niacin has worked used this brand? We may as well investigate all avenues so please list the brand you have been using and the full ingredients of the tablets (if listed on the bottle) here. Lets compile a list of the ones that have worked, just in case...
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on November 15, 2011, 07:15:14 AM
Mine is from Nature's Way. It's a capsule, and it seems to have fewer ingredients, perhpas we might expect that a tablet would have more ingredients, to be able to form the tablet and maybe even effect a less rapid absorbtion.

Mine says it has:
Millet and Maltodextrin plus for the capsule,
Cellulose and Magnesium Steriate
Plus of course the niacin in the form of nicotinic acid

For me as indicated, VERY effective.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Ccconfucius on November 15, 2011, 05:00:31 PM
Mine is from Nature's Way. It's a capsule, and it seems to have fewer ingredients, perhpas we might expect that a tablet would have more ingredients, to be able to form the tablet and maybe even effect a less rapid absorbtion.

Mine says it has:
Millet and Maltodextrin plus for the capsule,
Cellulose and Magnesium Steriate
Plus of course the niacin in the form of nicotinic acid

For me as indicated, VERY effective.

if you run out i can get you natures way from the US.  That is also the brand i use.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Stef on November 15, 2011, 08:53:03 PM
Daveman,

That's great news!!!

Nature's Way is a very good vitamin company.  It's got the United States Pharmacopoeia (USP) seal of approval on it. This means that it's undergone rigorous testing that verifies its quality, purity, and potency as an over-the-counter product.

The USP is a non-profit scientific organization.  There are many other vitamins and supplements that the USP tests and stamps its seal on (literally), and many of them are sold internationally. This is one way of checking the quality of the niacin that some of you are taking.  The other important thing to always check is the expiration date (can't emphasize this enough -- many people forget to check).

Here's a link for the United States Pharmacopoeia that you all may find helpful -- http://www.usp.org/USPVerified/dietarySupplements/.

Daveman, I'm really happy to hear your good news!!  That Russian physician who first mentioned niacin to victor.kons deserves a Nobel prize!
 
Mine is from Nature's Way. It's a capsule, and it seems to have fewer ingredients, perhpas we might expect that a tablet would have more ingredients, to be able to form the tablet and maybe even effect a less rapid absorbtion.

Mine says it has:
Millet and Maltodextrin plus for the capsule,
Cellulose and Magnesium Steriate
Plus of course the niacin in the form of nicotinic acid

For me as indicated, VERY effective.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: b_jim on November 16, 2011, 07:22:20 AM
Good job Daveman. In next months, if it's an evidence that B3 is a positive way to reduce Pois, we should send a mail to dr Waldinger.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: mellivora on November 16, 2011, 08:21:17 AM
Mine is from Nature's Way. It's a capsule, and it seems to have fewer ingredients, perhpas we might expect that a tablet would have more ingredients, to be able to form the tablet and maybe even effect a less rapid absorbtion.

Mine says it has:
Millet and Maltodextrin plus for the capsule,
Cellulose and Magnesium Steriate
Plus of course the niacin in the form of nicotinic acid

For me as indicated, VERY effective.

Thanks Daveman. Really happy for you that the first trial went so well. I have some Nature's Way Niacin capsules on order - I figured they'd be worth trying given that they don't cost much here. I've added you to the summary. I wasn't sure how long after taking the Niacin you orgasmed so haven't written that in specifically. If we get more feedback from people as to the brands they are using I'll add a post below the summary detailing these.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: mellivora on November 16, 2011, 08:25:03 AM
That is also the brand i use.

Thanks CC. Could you outline your experiences with Niacin (or XN) a bit more. Sounds like it is working for you? At the moment the only entry I have for you in the summary is:

"CCCONFUCIUS
observed that the flush was “way worse” with 200mg Niacin than with 300mg Xanthinol nicotinate. Also noticed the Niacin “spiked” his heart rate."

It would be great to add your data to the others in the summary which you can read here:

http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=235.msg2958#msg2958

If you've already posted your experiences in more detail then sorry I must have missed it, just point me to the post, thanks.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: omen on November 16, 2011, 08:41:25 AM
I hope users don't get dependent on niacin and xn.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on November 16, 2011, 06:21:58 PM
Mine is from Nature's Way. It's a capsule, and it seems to have fewer ingredients, perhpas we might expect that a tablet would have more ingredients, to be able to form the tablet and maybe even effect a less rapid absorbtion.

Mine says it has:
Millet and Maltodextrin plus for the capsule,
Cellulose and Magnesium Steriate
Plus of course the niacin in the form of nicotinic acid

For me as indicated, VERY effective.

Thanks Daveman. Really happy for you that the first trial went so well. I have some Nature's Way Niacin capsules on order - I figured they'd be worth trying given that they don't cost much here. I've added you to the summary. I wasn't sure how long after taking the Niacin you orgasmed so haven't written that in specifically. If we get more feedback from people as to the brands they are using I'll add a post below the summary detailing these.

It was something like 45 minutes after taking it. I "O"d based on coming clearly off the peak of the flush. Once the tingling and heat stopped and my heart rate was stable when walking around. SO it was, ingestion, then 20 min or so to start flushing, 15 min of flushing and another 10 or 15 to stabalize after end of flush.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: mellivora on November 17, 2011, 05:10:53 AM
Good job Daveman. In next months, if it's an evidence that B3 is a positive way to reduce Pois, we should send a mail to dr Waldinger.

I agree b_jim. Infact we could probably do this sooner rather than later  to set his brain cogs whirring. I don't recall anything else on the forum that has been reported to be helping so many sufferers, even if thus far it hasn't worked for me.

I came across some research about the mechanisms of Niacin on the body. I have them saved somewhere and shall pass on when I have time to go through them again. I'm thinking of writing to the authors of such papers as it might be obvious to them how Niacin might short-circuit an autoimmune response or have other effects relevant to POIS.

We have all done research into various aspects of POIS from time to time. I wonder if we should have a section of the forum that is dedicated to listing potentially significant papers and webpages we have found. It could be titled "reference library" or "research library" and have a different thread within that for each topic under which page links and webpages are posted. This could be useful for us all and also to anyone wanting to research POIS. Could we do this Daveman? Oh! I'm sorry I've just seen we have such a thread already - my apologies. That's good. I do think somehow it needs a clearer structure though. One where there can be different topic threads and literally a list of references within each. Eg. of topics could be 'POIS papers' (under which we list all papers directly about POIS (all Waldingers, Goldmeier/Ashby etc)). Semen (papers about anything to do with semen and its constituents/allergies to it), Niacin (research about Niacin), Autoimmunity (general things to do with autoimmunity), Fenugreek (research into the effects of fenugreek) etc etc. We can have an initial list of topics and then add more as and when necessary. this will help organise our references better. At the moment I fear if lots of references are posted, there is a danger of losing them through lack of struture. For example we already have  3 different threads just for waldingers papers. They should all be under one thread of 'POIS papers' I think. I don't think this involves much work if we get the initial topics going, people will just post under the appropriate one each time. But let me know if you think otherwise Daveman since I guess the initial set up would have to be done by yourself. You've done a brilliant job setting up this forum, its been fantastic for us. (sorry if this post has strayed off-topic for this thread).
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on November 17, 2011, 08:20:09 AM
Mellivora,

You could create some master threads there, maybe "Papers", "Videos" etc. etc. and I'll go in and make them "Sticky" so they are always on top, and later do some enditing and moving to put the existing threads into the master threads.

PM me when you've got your master threads created.

Thanks,
Daveman
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on November 17, 2011, 11:06:41 AM
Good job Daveman. In next months, if it's an evidence that B3 is a positive way to reduce Pois, we should send a mail to dr Waldinger.

I already did that, and i am hoping to meet him personally very soon. I will update on this issue.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Ccconfucius on November 17, 2011, 11:40:24 AM
That is also the brand i use.

Thanks CC. Could you outline your experiences with Niacin (or XN) a bit more. Sounds like it is working for you? At the moment the only entry I have for you in the summary is:

"CCCONFUCIUS
observed that the flush was “way worse” with 200mg Niacin than with 300mg Xanthinol nicotinate. Also noticed the Niacin “spiked” his heart rate."

It would be great to add your data to the others in the summary which you can read here:

http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=235.msg2958#msg2958

If you've already posted your experiences in more detail then sorry I must have missed it, just point me to the post, thanks.



i dont have data on niacin helping i rarely get fully heal. I only used niacin to keep me from being worse than am already. But it is hard to tell if it helps if am not 100%.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on November 17, 2011, 06:02:39 PM
Strange, I've only had one try, and it was VERY successful, almost 95% reduction. Don;t know if I have a good brand, or it's just me.

Let's just hope that it's repeatable!

I'm in the field now working, but when I get home next week, you can be sure it will get another couple of good shots!!
 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: b_jim on November 18, 2011, 06:53:07 AM
I can confirme my Pois is very reduced since one month. I feel good even if I didn't have to have a lot of physical activity on day 1 or day 0.
 I still follow low GI diet, but I took 100 to 150 mg of niacin 1 hour before orgasm. I follow the washing strategy too just after.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: sameer7777 on November 18, 2011, 04:29:37 PM
what is your niacin tab send me the pic or link and what is washing strategy ??????????
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: sameer7777 on November 19, 2011, 02:52:56 PM
May be as I am in Pois I can't understand please tell me how much niacin should I take ???
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on November 19, 2011, 05:46:30 PM
I am still calculating with the fact, that the so-called POIS may be the result of the way, we experience sexual arousal and orgasm. Porn addiction, being a male, frequent self-stimulation and many other variables can represent "positive" co-factors in the development and chronicity of this condition. Niacin, on the other hand, is capable of regulating this way of achieving orgasm due to its aphrodisiac properties.

He clearly suffers from what we call "POIS" and yet he can have intercourse with his wife being brain fog-free.

Any reasonable explanation for this?

That case sounds very strange for me. I will experience POIS if i have sexual intercourse , nocturnal emission or masturbation. The remedies that worked on alleviating my POIS symptoms in the past, specially Fenugreek, reduced a long way the pleasure of the orgasm. An orgasm with fenugreek could be 5 or 6 times less pleasurable than a normal one - i would hardly call fenugreek an aphrodisiac then-. and POIS could be reduced a lot in intensity/duration due to fenugreek.
Niacin is not reducing the intensity of the orgasm, but i do not feel that my sexual desire goes up after taking niacin...it stays the same.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: JRD on November 19, 2011, 07:13:36 PM
Quote
An orgasm with fenugreek could be 5 or 6 times less pleasurable than a normal one - i would hardly call fenugreek an aphrodisiac then-.

This is quite interesting, because it changed the way, you experienced an orgasm and the result was less severe POIS. Niacin is maybe quite fast acting, with short-term duration and therefore it is critical to catch the right moment to reach the best results (flush period?). I don't think taking aphrodisiacs necessarily means less pleasurable orgasm experience, they may rather serve as an "orgasm or pleasure regulator".

What if the way we experience an orgasm/arousal is deflected intellectualized dirt, instead of full bodily act. I only can tell I am always totally paralyzed seeing or noticing anything stimulating and this is heavily escalated during watching porn, developing some sexual fantasies, etc. It is almost like being drugged.

I'm sure I'm going to try some sexual experience-altering drug/preparation, be it aphrodisiacs or anything else. I am curious about the potential results.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: demografx on November 20, 2011, 08:49:04 PM
... the fact, that the so-called POIS may be...

JRD, the phrase, "so-called POIS" has NO PLACE in.......a POIS Forum.
Thanks,
demo
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: sameer7777 on November 21, 2011, 05:54:20 PM
I think we should forget about Dmitry (oh, as soon I wrote this name, I forgot it  ;D), and try to understand why it worked !
And if possible, get more information about the suffers who got "cured" with that.

The cognitive effect is proved. I talked about it with my doctor who told me :
-It was a real double(Xanthinol+Nicotinate) effect vasodilator.
-The nicotinate is found in cigarettes and really help to focus on things (one of the only benefit to smoke...never did that) since it helps more glucose and O2 coming into the brain cells.
-Never take a vasodilator if you get heart disorder/operation
-Intramuscular Injections are more efficient than the digestive way and reaches a maximum 100 minutes after injection (it is true what we heard so)


I think that IF XN works, then the POIS  is for a part :
 only an over cerebral vessels constriction which lasts from the O (arousal for some) until some time  (the POIS recovery).

It would mean that our brain takes a very long time to relax the constricted cerebral vessels. Thus, our brain gets less (perhaps a very small difference) O2 and glucose than before. With the time, the vessels get relaxed and we go back to the normal with O2 and glucose income

My theory would be for the "cognitive" symptoms :
brain fog/memory loss/ ability to focus       +         ears blowing/locked nose and throat/feeling the heartbeat in the brain (pressure due to constricted vessels), and so on...

I am 90% cognitive POIS, I had NO semen allergy , nor positive immune reaction tests due to the O. That is why I build up my own theory (based on the potential XN) which could fit into my case (cognitive) !

i support your theory , what is colon inflation in your signature !!!!!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: demografx on November 21, 2011, 06:11:13 PM


I think we should forget about Dmitry (oh, as soon I wrote this name, I forgot it  ;D), and try to understand why it worked !
And if possible, get more information about the suffers who got "cured" with that.

The cognitive effect is proved. I talked about it with my doctor who told me :
-It was a real double(Xanthinol+Nicotinate) effect vasodilator.
-The nicotinate is found in cigarettes and really help to focus on things (one of the only benefit to smoke...never did that) since it helps more glucose and O2 coming into the brain cells.
-Never take a vasodilator if you get heart disorder/operation
-Intramuscular Injections are more efficient than the digestive way and reaches a maximum 100 minutes after injection (it is true what we heard so)


I think that IF XN works, then the POIS  is for a part :
 only an over cerebral vessels constriction which lasts from the O (arousal for some) until some time  (the POIS recovery).

It would mean that our brain takes a very long time to relax the constricted cerebral vessels. Thus, our brain gets less (perhaps a very small difference) O2 and glucose than before. With the time, the vessels get relaxed and we go back to the normal with O2 and glucose income

My theory would be for the "cognitive" symptoms :
brain fog/memory loss/ ability to focus       +         ears blowing/locked nose and throat/feeling the heartbeat in the brain (pressure due to constricted vessels), and so on...

I am 90% cognitive POIS, I had NO semen allergy , nor positive immune reaction tests due to the O. That is why I build up my own theory (based on the potential XN) which could fit into my case (cognitive) !

Habibou,

Excellent reporting!

demo
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: sameer7777 on November 21, 2011, 06:24:40 PM
Very interesting Demo, it seems to be a central finding !  thank you It seems to explain a lot more, and sounds very familiar for me at least.. The pois episode, intense long lasting warmth through the whole body, sweating. I noticed I ask everybody if the room is warm for them, just to check if I am not an exception there.

french article translated" niacin is a main factor in the sexual hormones production, blood stream, energy production AND histamine release"

"Some people cant support very well histamine release/absorption and it implies : Headaches, skin troubles, heart palpitations, dizziness, intense warmth feeling, digestive troubles (nausea, colon disorders, stomach.
The symptoms disappear alone in some hours after the histamine absorption."

Histamine could explain the "fake allergic reaction feeling" and the huge amount of it could explain why a simply "antihistamine" never worked for us.
Perhaps the Niacin by injections could prevent the wrong reaction by regulating the Histamine release during arousal and the O.

It would be good to have medical view on this Niacin findings and the possible link with our POIS. I hope Dr Waldinger would have a look on it !


what is cerebral vessel inflamation??????????????????
my back of neck really hurts when i am performing , my shoulders neck and back of head get stiff , even going down to from neck to back bone ....
does cerebral vessel inflamation mean narrow of blood vessels of these my pain area , is thats right i think you are 100% right ............

one more thing i must tell when ever i take injections of b complex injections i feel better thats the only thing , but it has vitamin b1 b6 12 .......
i feel good only taking it by injections .... other orally i dont think it works .....
it has thiamine 100 mg
pyredoxine 100mg
Cyanocobalamin 1000mcg

i dont know it helps me relesase stiffness and to get energy ????

so kindly pls answer my questions
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: b_jim on November 22, 2011, 10:10:56 AM
I have some flu-like symptoms today  >:(  I took only 80mg of vitamin B3 and I didn't do the washing technique. But, the important thing may be I have eaten a lot of carbs last days...

Nobody find a difference when eating a lot/no carbohydrates ? "The pois episode, intense long lasting warmth through the whole body, sweating." Exactly this symptom I felt all this day. I really don't understand what is the link with glucose but this is the key factor. Next time I should test lot of carbs + 250 mg of niacin. Niacin may have an effect on insulin or ftg factor.

Sameer : use the brand you find in your country. You should take about 100 to 200mg to test. The washing technique is a strategy to eliminate the semen as soon as possible to avoid the contact with skin. Not sure it makes a difference.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: sameer7777 on November 22, 2011, 04:06:57 PM
gnc people giving me 250 mg of niacin
should i take it ..... its a normal tab its not no flush !!
what do u say ???????
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on November 22, 2011, 06:54:28 PM
gnc people giving me 250 mg of niacin
should i take it ..... its a normal tab its not no flush !!
what do u say ???????

Start with half first (125mg).  Wait until you have passed at least a week from your last orgasm, and then take it one hour before orgasm.

About 15 to 20 minutes after taking it you will feel the skin burning like sunburn, but don't worry, it doesn't last too long, maybe 15 min to 1/2 hour.

Then you will feel fairy normal, perhpas a little "pumped". Have the orgasm, and you should feel quite a bit better in the morning than usual.

It may not cure you of everything becasue you have at least diabetes THAT YOU SHOULD treat. Even 180 blood-sugar is HIGH. Another reason you feel like crap. And probably depression too.

Get yourself fixed up plzzzzzzzz!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on November 22, 2011, 06:57:49 PM
BTW, I don't know if there re conraindications in taking niacin with diabetes!! So check it out.

Becasue  you have diabetes!

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: sameer7777 on November 22, 2011, 07:24:32 PM
Thanks alot for the reply
But about my diabetes I am not taking any meds yet
Cause I am better than on meds
180 was random
I hope you know uptil 160 is normal
I am taking b complex tabs which already have niacin 50 mg
Pls daveman read my post about b complex injections in which b1 b6 b12 always helped ne
Thanks again
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: sameer7777 on November 22, 2011, 07:25:33 PM
Mr daveman how can we know who's online so I can chat
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on December 06, 2011, 12:03:53 PM
I want to tell something that happened several weeks ago;

I continue to take 200 mg of flush-type niacin before orgasm, and this is blocking my POIS. But i developed mild symptoms after taking the same niacin brand, and this was because i left the bottle open during several hours. After taking niacin from that bottle i had some mild POIS symptoms, they do not lasted more than 2 days, but it made me feel again this symptoms. 
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: sameer7777 on December 06, 2011, 01:40:14 PM
oh okay !! i could not find niaicn here .........
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Jon on December 14, 2011, 07:04:15 AM
Hey guys, I just had a thought..

We feel that niacin is helping us because we are short on certain neurotransmitters and other chemicals after sex and such, but is it possible that if taken before sex it would help anyone no matter what level they are at? In other words if a person without POIS took niacin would their levels be even higher than normal? If so it would be as an an enhancer rather than fixing something in the actual POIS cycle.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on December 14, 2011, 07:16:40 AM
Could be. B3 is used in energy drinks, so it is a booster.

Hopefully deeper investigations will begin. I'm sure it could lead to something very useful for POIS.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Jon on December 14, 2011, 07:23:10 AM
Hmm.. Very interesting. Yes, I think it will indeed lead to something. I think I will try niacin and an antihistamine together. I'll keep everyone updated.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: sameer7777 on December 14, 2011, 04:03:27 PM
daveman .... what i know in energy drinks they use b1 , b6 b12 only u sure about b3 ????????/
and still i dont get it should i get a 250 mg without flush or with flush ????????//

jon , let us know pls ??????????

thanks u all
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on December 15, 2011, 07:36:27 AM
Let the flush be the guide.

There are two imprtant and related factors. How much you have recently eaten and the strength of the flush.

For me, and it could be different for each person, if I haven't eaten for at least 6 hours, then 100mg gives me a good flush.
if I've eaten lke a sandwhich 2 hours before, then 200mg gives a good flush.
I still don't know how much I would need if I had just recently eaten.

A flush ISN'T absolutely required, but is a sure thing. Without flush, but thinking that I may have come close to the flush, I still have benefits, although protection on days 3 to 5 is not as strong.

The best is to try your first attempt first thing in the morning with 100mg. You should get a good flush. Don't take more than 100mg the first time until you see how you react.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: b_jim on December 15, 2011, 09:29:23 AM
I have eaten lot of pasta yeterday and today I have body flush. I took only 40 mg of niacin one houre before orgasm.
From my opinion, moderate dose of vitamin B3 (20 to 120mg) CAN'T prevent flu-like symptoms. But  it may help with cognitive symptoms. And the vaso-dilatation effect theory is something interesting to explore.
I want to test claritin.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: sameer7777 on December 19, 2011, 05:47:46 AM
I bought the bottle of250 niacin for 20 dollars in my country
Wasted my money and time I took last night
The whole night I can't sleep and in the morning all my symptoms were stronger
Headache weakness and everything
I am very sad that niacin didn't help me

All of you bless you
Take care
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: omen on December 19, 2011, 06:15:59 AM
That's what I am trying to say...pois seems like shortage of sme chemical in the brain...niacin is a vitamin which helps people suffering through depression and serorin deficiency...an orgasm decreases the level of these useful chemicals inn brain...in normal people the level is not low that's why maybe they don't feel so upset the way we do because I think we poisers already have a shortage of these chemicals specially serotonin that's what I think...there's no allergy nothing...if medications given for serotinin deficiency work for us then maybe there's nothing like pois its just the chemical imbalance...
 
   
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on December 19, 2011, 06:56:33 AM
That's what I am trying to say...pois seems like shortage of sme chemical in the brain...niacin is a vitamin which helps people suffering through depression and serorin deficiency...an orgasm decreases the level of these useful chemicals inn brain...in normal people the level is not low that's why maybe they don't feel so upset the way we do because I think we poisers already have a shortage of these chemicals specially serotonin that's what I think...there's no allergy nothing...if medications given for serotinin deficiency work for us then maybe there's nothing like pois its just the chemical imbalance...
 
   

I think you're pretty close in what you say. But what we need to know, is WHY are we deficient in this area. An auto-immune reaction could also lead to the same imbalance, as a result of excessive histamine production, or for some reason we can't adapt to regular histamine production, which can leave serotinine and dopamine low, or half a dozen other reasons.

So while we may be one step closer, there's still lots to figure out!!

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: sameer7777 on December 19, 2011, 08:11:06 AM
Guys should I continue with niacin help me guys   ?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: omen on December 19, 2011, 08:17:15 AM
Are u feelin better with niacin?if yes continue and if no then stop having it...
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on December 19, 2011, 09:08:02 AM
I would give niacin another try. The first time i took it was not good.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on December 19, 2011, 10:51:40 AM
Did it change Starsky?
what was your 1st time and what did you change for the 2nd time? did you get relief?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on December 19, 2011, 11:12:16 AM
I find that the flush is important as a measure. You should try to get as close to a flush as possible, and hopefully it should be a good flush. I´ve had success without a flush, but I was always "close" to the flush. If the dose I took didnñt produce a flush I would take more in powdered form as soon as I knew that the flush wasn't coming. I use capsules, so it's easy to open one and take the powder directly. The powder enters the system faster.

What you eat before hand  makes a lot of difference. You should avoid eating for at least 2 hours beforehand.  Better is 4 or 6 hours. This is the biggest drawback, but WORTH IT.

Take the niacin BEFORE orgasm and don't have your orgasm until you have passed the initial flushed skin. You should wait until the "sunburn" feeling passes.

If you don't follow these steps, I think your success could be affected.

Sameer, did you get the flush?

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on December 19, 2011, 11:22:42 AM
Thank you Daveman  :) I did that many times but I guess Niacin is just not the key for me !
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on December 19, 2011, 11:58:06 AM
First i took too much. 1g XN, second time i took niacin but it wasnt perfect. with another tries was better.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Habibou on December 19, 2011, 12:40:51 PM
I only tried 500 mg of Niacin.
Perhaps it is too much and I should try 150 mg ?
It would be weird that it works with 150 mg and not 500...
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: sameer7777 on December 19, 2011, 03:55:29 PM
No its not helping me at all !!!!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Vandemolen on December 19, 2011, 05:45:42 PM
Today I asked the doctor about Vitamin B3. He said that the reason why some of us find relief is because the flush runs out the histamines in the body. And when you have an O. the body will not spread histamines. And because of the histamines we have this allergy reaction. He said that maybe there is a risk the POIS gets worse because of Niacin. And you have to take a higher dose to get the same effect. And a lot of Niacin brings side effects as liver damage. BUT HE DIDN'T DO ANY RESEARCH ABOUT THIS! This is just his opinion. 

Niacin doesn't help me a lot. Maybe 10 to 20% less symptoms. I use 200 mg Niacin. I get a big flush. I do not dare to take more.
I found my relief in the injection therapy (50% less symptoms). But I told about that in another topic. :)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on December 19, 2011, 06:34:19 PM
We talked about this with Vincent. After a year of niacin usage his pois is at the same level. It didnt get better or worse due to niacin usage. He didnt noticed any tolerance to niacin, he gets always the same results with 150mg.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on December 19, 2011, 06:35:49 PM
Today I asked the doctor about Vitamin B3. He said that the reason why some of us find relief is because the flush runs out the histamines in the body. And when you have an O. the body will not spread histamines. And because of the histamines we have this allergy reaction. He said that maybe there is a risk the POIS gets worse because of Niacin. And you have to take a higher dose to get the same effect. And a lot of Niacin brings side effects as liver damage. BUT HE DIDN'T DO ANY RESEARCH ABOUT THIS! This is just his opinion.  

Niacin doesn't help me a lot. Maybe 10 to 20% less symptoms. I use 200 mg Niacin. I get a big flush. I do not dare to take more.
I found my relief in the injection therapy (50% less symptoms). But I told about that in another topic. :)

I have been taking niacin since more than 100 days ago. I have been using the same amount (200 mg), and i am finding extraordinary relief or not POIS if properly taken. This has not changed, the only thing that is that the flush is more difficult to get after several days of continuous use.
I had the skin prick test on The Hague clinic and i took the niacin prior the test. My allergic reaction was very small, doctors said, and that could be explained by niacin.I wonder that other people here is having the same good results with niacin.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on December 19, 2011, 06:51:08 PM
Observer, they should do the skin prick without niacin too. I would say the red spot could be the same, because the theory about histamine storage that is being used is too simple. We get the same results with flush, without flush or even with flushfree niacinamide. I get always POIS whilse taking niacin, the only diference is that i dont get any cognitive symptoms or brainfog.Niacin helps our histamine deficiency. The flush is just your basophil and mast cells filling up with histamine. The dose it takes you to flush can help you determine your histamine levels. Niacin does not in fact induce a histamine release (which would make one wakeful): it induces a prostaglandin release (which does indeed slightly make one drowsy). Niacin flush being a result of histamine release is misinformation that has been floating around the internet.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on December 19, 2011, 07:01:17 PM
Observer, they should do the skin prick without niacin too. I would say the red spot could be the same, because the theory about histamine storage that is being used is too simple. We get the same results with flush, without flush or even with flushfree niacinamide. I get always POIS whilse taking niacin, the only diference is that i dont get any cognitive symptoms or brainfog.

What are your other symptoms Starsky?

My brain fog is cleared, i do not get any brain fog or cognitive problems since i am taking niacin, and for sure that was the most awful symptom of my POIS.

Some other symptoms like my hair falling down, digestive problems for a day, sensitivity to light, bags under my eyes, etc ... i do not get this symptoms neither,except bags under my eyes, but not as they were used to be.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on December 19, 2011, 07:04:22 PM
Muscle pains, swollen lymph nodes and physical weekness.  But i dont feel so sick that i cant stand up in the morning.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on December 20, 2011, 03:05:54 AM
We talked about this with Vincent. After a year of niacin usage his pois is at the same level. It didnt get better or worse due to niacin usage. He didnt noticed any tolerance to niacin, he gets always the same results with 150mg.
I'm taking XN for 2 years and feel no difference in my POIS symptoms at rare cases when I don't take XN. And I don't need increase in dosage. I'm using 150mg dosage all the time, or 0.5 ml if I do injections. Sometimes I use Niacin instead of XN, I feel no difference between XN and Niacin, dosages and results are the same.

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: sameer7777 on December 20, 2011, 05:36:14 AM
Ok guys I am giving it another try this time half tab around 125 mg as the original tab is 250 mg of Gnc
I will break it in half thanks guys
Remember me
Sameer
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on December 20, 2011, 06:27:37 AM
How do you want to check if its working if you are already in Pois?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on December 23, 2011, 10:53:25 AM
I have one important thing to point out, something has happened, because i am not getting 100 percent relief from niacin -200mg- the last times, i feel with  mild cognitive symptoms or to be like "on the verge" of POIS symptoms. I wonder that this has happened twice in the last 4 days because i am taking one anti-histamine pill (you know i am allergic to a lot of things, and i suffer from allergy to acarus in my home-town -subtropical area- http://ekofyz.ic.cz/img/acarus.jpg I get runny nose, cough,etc). Is it possible that anti-histamine is affecting the over-all  result of the niacin because the histamine release is lower than without the anti-histamine? What do you think about this?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on December 26, 2011, 03:09:32 PM
I have one important thing to point out, something has happened, because i am not getting 100 percent relief from niacin -200mg- the last times, i feel with  mild cognitive symptoms or to be like "on the verge" of POIS symptoms. I wonder that this has happened twice in the last 4 days because i am taking one anti-histamine pill (you know i am allergic to a lot of things, and i suffer from allergy to acarus in my home-town -subtropical area- http://ekofyz.ic.cz/img/acarus.jpg I get runny nose, cough,etc). Is it possible that anti-histamine is affecting the over-all  result of the niacin because the histamine release is lower than without the anti-histamine? What do you think about this?

I stop taking this anti-histamine pill and had another orgasm after taking 200 mg of niacin and the results were the same as ever: No brain fog, no cognitive symptoms.
The anti-histamine by itself produces some lethargy and right now i am just fine. I do not know what to think about this, if i felt that way because of the anti-histamine or the anti-histamine reduced the effect of niacin(it was more difficult to get the flush too).
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on December 27, 2011, 06:29:32 PM
Anti-histamine H1+Niacin is worse for POIS than just niacin. I think that i should raise the dose of niacin if i am taking anti-histamines.

I stopped taking anti-histamines and had another O. again with niacin and that blocked my symptoms!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on December 28, 2011, 06:31:45 AM
Observer, do you have this blocking effect without a flush?
I think if you want combine antihistamine and niacin you should take niacin first, after a 1h or after the flush take antihistamine and after 1h ejaculate.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on December 28, 2011, 07:07:00 AM
A question to discuss: niacin produces histamine release, what causes the release to shut down? I think this mechanism causes the blocking effect of POIS. The desensitization works in a quite similar way: we induce a inflammation to produce "shut-down" cells.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on December 28, 2011, 01:30:22 PM
Observer, do you have this blocking effect without a flush?
I think if you want combine antihistamine and niacin you should take niacin first, after a 1h or after the flush take antihistamine and after 1h ejaculate.

Hi Starsky,

Yes i indeed have this blocking effect without a flush, or at least on the "verge" of flush or with very mild flush.
I do not want to combine the antihistamine with niacin for the POIS itself- because niacin is working already 100 percent-, but right now it has occured that i have been taken antihistamine H1 to fight against my brutal allergy to acarus! .
So, one day i took the antihistamine in the morning and then i took the niacin in the afternoon and the results were not as good as always. So that make me wondering about the potential effects of antihistamine with the niacin.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: b_jim on December 29, 2011, 02:56:50 AM
A question to discuss: niacin produces histamine release, what causes the release to shut down? I think this mechanism causes the blocking effect of POIS. The desensitization works in a quite similar way: we induce a inflammation to produce "shut-down" cells.

Hmm...  :)
We can also think niacin is a cofactor of histamines synthesis and avoid its depletion after histamines rush caused by semen allergy.
The work of desensitization is to avoid the trigger of inflammation by the time.
Or maybe there are different mechanisms to explain the succes of B3.

I don't thonk the niacin flush can be compared to flu-like symptoms in Pois. It's very short and restricted to only few symptoms.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on December 31, 2011, 07:01:44 AM
Niacin-induced “Flush” Involves Release of Prostaglandin D2 from Mast Cells and Serotonin from Platelets: Evidence from Human Cells in Vitro and an Animal Model
Dean Papaliodis, William Boucher, Duraisamy Kempuraj, Margaret Michaelian, Adams Wolfberg, Michael House and Theoharis C. Theoharides
+ Author Affiliations

Department of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics, Molecular Immunopharmacology and Drug Discovery Laboratory (D.P., W.B., D.K., M.M., T.C.T.) and Departments of Obstetrics and Gynecology (A.W., M.H.), Internal Medicine (T.C.T.), and Biochemistry (T.C.T.), Tufts University School of Medicine, Tufts Medical Center, Boston, Massachusetts
Address correspondence to:
Dr. Theoharis Constantin Theoharides, Department of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics, Tufts University School of Medicine, 136 Harrison Avenue, Boston, MA 02111. E-mail: theoharis.theoharides@tufts.edu
 

FULL ARTICLE: http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/327/3/665.full.pdf

ABOUT NIACIN: AND HISTAMINE Methylnicotinate had a weak effect on inducing histamine release from human mast cells,
whereas niacin did not increase rat plasma histamine levels. Moreover, the H1-receptor antagonists brompheniramine,
chlorpheniramine, diphenylhydramine, and ketotifen did not block niacin-induced skin temperature increases. Combined,
these results suggest that histamine is not involved in niacininduced flush
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on December 31, 2011, 07:08:45 AM
I think Demografx was taking Aspirine to reduce the flush. Aspirie inhibits the effect of prostaglandins, but taking aspirine and niacin didnt make a difference for him so i think prostaglandins are not important. What is left is SEROTONIN. The effect of serotonin can be blocked by taking antihistamines, so i think thats the explanation of Observers case. What my allergist said, histamine and serotonin have the same group of receptors and serotonin can bind to histamine receptors(dont know to which one) and could work as an antihistamine.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Willem on December 31, 2011, 12:27:00 PM
FULL ARTICLE: http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/327/3/665.full.pdf

ABOUT NIACIN: AND HISTAMINE Methylnicotinate had a weak effect on inducing histamine release from human mast cells,
whereas niacin did not increase rat plasma histamine levels. Moreover, the H1-receptor antagonists brompheniramine,
chlorpheniramine, diphenylhydramine, and ketotifen did not block niacin-induced skin temperature increases. Combined,
these results suggest that histamine is not involved in niacininduced flush


Nice find!
Title: Histamin run out or histamin replacement
Post by: Daveman on December 31, 2011, 12:41:06 PM
A question to discuss: niacin produces histamine release, what causes the release to shut down? I think this mechanism causes the blocking effect of POIS. The desensitization works in a quite similar way: we induce a inflammation to produce "shut-down" cells.

Hmm...  :)
We can also think niacin is a cofactor of histamines synthesis and avoid its depletion after histamines rush caused by semen allergy.
The work of desensitization is to avoid the trigger of inflammation by the time.
Or maybe there are different mechanisms to explain the succes of B3.

I don't thonk the niacin flush can be compared to flu-like symptoms in Pois. It's very short and restricted to only few symptoms.





ABOUT NIACIN: AND HISTAMINE Methylnicotinate had a weak effect on inducing histamine release from human mast cells,
whereas niacin did not increase rat plasma histamine levels. Moreover, the H1-receptor antagonists brompheniramine,
chlorpheniramine, diphenylhydramine, and ketotifen did not block niacin-induced skin temperature increases. Combined,
these results suggest that histamine is not involved in niacininduced flush



These two posts are quite compatible.

Dr. Waldinger's group, upon recently hearing about niacin, suggested (although they clarified, without much study yet), that it was probably as a result of niacin running out histamines during the flush, thereby depleting them whereby they could not become involved in the  auto-immune chain reaction that creates POIS.

This goes contrary to Starsky's findings. However my tendency is to believe that it is not so much the histamine "run-out" that is so important as it is B_Jim's point that niacin is a co factor in production of histamines AND dopamine/serotonin.

A common sense that I have had with my niacin experience ( almost identical to Observer's) is that "it feels" like one of two things, either that niacin is consuming some substance, let's say some auto-immune antagonist or more probably contributing to the bolstering of what ever is being depleted.

I can almost feel some process happening right from the orgasm through the first hours after orgasm.

If I fall a little short of the flush, the result of this above process falls short and is somewhat partial. Today for instance I feel light POIS after last nights orgasm where I didn't actually get a flush. (100mg) Still this worst case, still reduces effects of POIS by 80%.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Jon on January 01, 2012, 05:25:01 PM
I personally feel as though the Niacin works from the point or orgasm right up until a day after. I usually get shivers and feel jittery for up to 24 hours after and sometimes I can't relax or sleep because of it but don't mind because I think these are symptoms of something positive that is happening. The niacin definitely works on more than one hormone in the body, Just can't quite explain how..
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on January 01, 2012, 06:47:27 PM
I personally feel as though the Niacin works from the point or orgasm right up until a day after. I usually get shivers and feel jittery for up to 24 hours after and sometimes I can't relax or sleep because of it but don't mind because I think these are symptoms of something positive that is happening. The niacin definitely works on more than one hormone in the body, Just can't quite explain how..

I tried niacin without orgasm recently. Had a very strong flush, but did not have an orgasm, just wanted to see how it felt.

Usually after taking niacin and an orgasm, I get a sort of springtime energy feeling. I feel healthy and spirited. Taking it just by itself with no orgasm, there were no effects whatsoever in the days to follow.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: mellivora on January 02, 2012, 07:51:35 AM
I personally feel as though the Niacin works from the point or orgasm right up until a day after. I usually get shivers and feel jittery for up to 24 hours after and sometimes I can't relax or sleep because of it but don't mind because I think these are symptoms of something positive that is happening. The niacin definitely works on more than one hormone in the body, Just can't quite explain how..

Hi Jon. Is Niacin working for you now? At the moment, from your previous reports, I have you down as someone for whom Niacin has not been effective. If it is working for you, could you possibly summarise your recent experience with Niacin including the type and dose you have been taking and an estimate (percentage if possible) of how much it has reduced your symptoms. Thanks. I can then update your info in my summary here: http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=235.msg2958#msg2958 (you are currently near the bottom of the summary with those for whom Niacin hasn't worked).
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: b_jim on January 02, 2012, 07:54:51 AM
I can confirm I don't have skin reaction when i put semen on the skin of my forearm.
I took only 20mg of niacin.

So I have a important chance to be negative if I made the prick test.
I think anti-histamine meds can't help me. The only symptom I have some minutes after orgasm is cold feeling. My other symptoms start 3-4 hours later.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on January 02, 2012, 12:45:19 PM
Did someone try B3 in injections? When I take niacin 1hr after meal i get pois. ARGH!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on January 02, 2012, 02:29:01 PM
This graph shows the relationship between time from eating and flush. There are three graphs, one for early in the morning one for 3 in the afternoon and the last for later at night.

It shows that best results are had in the morning. I can take 100mg in the morning and get almost too big of a flush, but in the same conditions at night, the flush can be borderline.

10 indicates good flush, red face, sunburn feeling, prickly skin.
6 would indicate maybe slight burning feeling, but no redness, increased heart rate
3 would indicate MAYBE slight effect on heart rate.

These are from fairly limited test, I'd like to accumulate more data. The "10" reading for 6 in the morning with min 6 hrs fast time (X axis) is lower than the 12 reading with 5 hours and 4 hrs fasting. This might be for lack of data (statistical deviation).

You may have to double click the graph to make it bigger.

It's surely not exactly relevant to everybody, but shows a tendency for the effect of niacin to be greater in the morning, thereby meaning less fasting time before for the same effect.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: mellivora on January 02, 2012, 03:04:00 PM
This looks interesting Daveman. Are you able to relate the fasting/flush intensity to effectiveness at relieving symptoms in any way?

I suspected too from my limited experience with Niacin that it is harder to achieve flush and perhaps niacin is less effective at night. I don't have hard evidence for this.

I now have Nature's Way 100mg capsules. These seem slower to act than the Holland and Barrett 100mg tablets I described trying in previous posts. Whereas I have had a flush start in 5 minutes with the H&B tablets, the Nature's Way flush seems harder to achieve. I need to try Nature's Way some more. If it worked the first time I tried it, it was only partially effective. I still had symptoms but looking at my ratings for symptom severity they were a little less than normal. Its too early to draw any conclusions.

In the early hours of this morning I did another trial. At 00:44 I took 200mg Niacin (Nature's Way). 1 hour later I still hadn't had a flush but O'd anyway. I then started feeling the flush at 2:02am (1hr16mins after taking the niacin!). I was a bit frustrated that I O'd thinking there wasn't a flush and then the flush came (lasting about 10mins)! I had POIS symptoms next day. The O was 7 hours after supper but I had had eaten some fruit just a couple of hours before.

Although I need to look into it, I think its likely the digestive system isn't so active late at night and this affects the rate of niacin (and food) assimilation. We should probably also look to the levels of hormones/other bioactive molecules that change concentration through the day. I also suspect that the capsules take longer to release their active contents compared to the tablets.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: fsol on January 15, 2012, 05:35:59 PM
That's a pretty interesting graph, Daveman. Until now I thought the intensity of the flush was only a matter of fasting, but I'm also experiencing that the time of day has something to do with it.

I took 300 mg of Niacin on half full stomach in the afternoon and had no reaction at all. A few days later I took 400mg on empty stomach in the middle of the day and I felt like my head was going to explode. I flushed for 45 mins and had a face like a lobster. Now I just took 400mg again, late at night on full stomach and had no reaction at all.

So for me, fasting is a major part of it, but I'm sure the time of the day also has a part to play.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on January 15, 2012, 06:11:15 PM
I'd really like to refine the graph with more data, sometimes in the heat of things I don't document like I should.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: b_jim on January 16, 2012, 02:44:30 AM
Red like a lobster ?  ;D What a coincidence... (=> Astaxanthin=anti-Pois?? ). (http://www.recipebits.com/media/food-icons/lobster-icon.jpg)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: ve-to on February 05, 2012, 06:37:22 PM
-Hello, I am writing from italy and I apologize for the bad english ... google translator gives me a help:)
finally my illness has a name, but I'm sad because it is a rare disease and there is no effective treatment.
I read some of you take the vitamima b3, What can cause liver damage?
The use of vitamin b3 forum "alternative treatments", why not official? who suggested to use it?which is the molecule-flush version (which did not recommend for liver damage), because I would like to try the inositol hexacinate, it is the no-flush niacin? I suffer from 20 years of this problem and has ruined my life, I'm using 3 times the normal time to graduate university and no-sex is impossible for me, after three days I become anxious.


I'm starting using 40 mg nician ,flush version and no effect,
with 90mg and empty stomac ,sex after 1 hour and pois was reduce but not at all. No flush or little bit.
Tomorrow i will try to incrase it to 100 or 120
How many time niacin need to work if i take with half stomach full?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on February 05, 2012, 07:53:45 PM
Hi vetrofragile,

Welcome.

Niacin is bad for your liver when taken in large doses and for extended periods. Some people can build up a resistance and are able to take 1000 or 2000mg per day. This is not our goal.

The goal is to take it ONLY before orgasm and a minimum quantity, just enough to produce the flush. The flush is more of a guide than a medical necessity. I have taken a quantity that didn't produce flush, but "almost", and it still worked. But it is better to take enough to produce the flush "for sure".

You are doing well to start out slowly and "find" your level. if 90 almost gave you a flush, 100 or 120 should be good. But I find that it varies. Sometimes with 3 hrs of fasting 100 gives me a strong flush and other times nothing. But sometimes 100 will give me a very strong flush, so I don't like to take more than the 100.

Sometimes I'll take 100 and if it doesn't give me a flush within 30 minutes, I'll take another 100. Niacin is in your system and "protects you" for several hours, that is you can have the orgasm from any time after the peak of the flush up until about 3 hrs later.

I'm not sure I heard from anyone who has had a flush on half full stomach, and am not sure how much you'd have to take.

Some have had luck with niacinamide, which is no flush, but I'm not so sure the the other no flush type works for POIS, it's too different chemically.

The reason that niacin isn't in an official category is that the mechanism still isn't clear. The "official" categories describe a mechanism. I think an idea is forming as to the mechanism, but it isn't clear enough yet!


Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: ve-to on February 05, 2012, 10:22:25 PM
Thank u for reply, how long flush going on? i'm little bit scared from a kind of video on youtube ...a man scratching a lot for long time.. :) i'm little bit axiogen :) 
Which way to don't build a niacin resistance?

ps: take niacin 3hrs ago half stomach and no flush.. :S
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Vincent M on February 06, 2012, 09:33:14 AM
Niacin is safe as long as you up your dose slowly enough the way you are doing. I need 200mg to flush if my stomach is completely empty. The flush only lasts 5 to 10 minutes I think. Nothing to be scared of.

You will build up a tolerance if you take it everyday so the key is to only take niacin once or maybe twice a week.

Don't give up on niacin until you experience the flush without a doubt.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: ve-to on February 06, 2012, 11:22:59 AM
 20 mins post O , seems to be reduce brain fog (usually is high) ..other symptoms are at the same level like past. i'm feel tired but not confused.. not so bad ;)
I feel like have a shield or firewall agaist the brain fog.. but not working @ 100%..maybe 70%

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on February 06, 2012, 02:51:31 PM
20 mins post O , seems to be reduce brain fog (usually is high) ..other symptoms are at the same level like past. i'm feel tired but not confused.. not so bad ;)
I feel like have a shield or firewall agaist the brain fog.. but not working @ 100%..maybe 70%



Yes, for me the first day still has a little POIS, although the brain-fog and cognitive parts are almost wiped out. But After day 1 I have very little else.

Some joint problems, but life is livable, and a whole lot better!

I'm in day 1 today, and frequently forget that I have POIS.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: ve-to on February 06, 2012, 06:34:21 PM
are there other treatments better than niacin?
here no medic know this syndrome.. my personal medic sad: "illusionary desease" try with yoga or something else.... wtf!!!!
it is a good idea take other b-group vitamins? if yes how many?

thanks guys ;)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Ccconfucius on February 06, 2012, 09:55:25 PM
we have all got that in every country represented in this forum.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: omen on February 08, 2012, 12:45:30 AM
I have suggested before and I do it again try having orgasm in the morning after u wake up and then no orgasm for a week or as long as u can control...the day u have orgasm and the other day will be all u will suffer and from the third day life will be normal...it works for me please try it friends instead of having any drugs...when I used toi have an orgasm in the night time I used to suffer for almost a week and on the 7th day I used to feel better but having it in the morning I feel better on the 3rd day....but one thing don't have more than 1 orgasm or else it all gets messed up....I think we poisers are all having low levels of chemicals in head..when we orgasm the levels which are already low,they fall and the connection between the neuro receptors and the brain is lost because the medium between the both of them are the chemicals...then when we get the spike in the chemical levels we feel better....this is purely what I feel and maybe I am wrong so friends just be a little careful while having orgasms...limit it to once a week or maybe more than that cause we poisers have to keep our chemical levels in the high range to be out of pois...bye.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: ve-to on February 08, 2012, 01:07:54 AM
astinenza? No ,non fa per me.. c'ho provato per anni ma non sono mai riuscito .
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on February 08, 2012, 06:49:21 AM
astinenza? No ,non fa per me.. c'ho provato per anni ma non sono mai riuscito .

I translated with Google (Italian). You say,
"abstinence, no not for me, I've tried that for years and haven't been successful".

I agree.

Omen, you are lucky that you only suffer the one day when you have orgasm in the morning. I have tried, and it's worse for me.
I guess we are not all the same. When I do it at night, I sleep the worst hours, those first ones, and so it's like one day less of POIS
(well 8 hrs anyways). When I do it in the morning, I suffer those worst hours, but STILL have 5 days of POIS.

Until I found niacin. Now I can have sex in the morning and hardly suffer at all. The next day it's almost all gone.

And it's not like niacin is really a drug, it's a vitamin. Iboprofen or aspirin is worse for you, especially if you ONLY take it before orgasm and not regularly.

vetrofragile79, read up on niacin, for most, 100mg 30 minutes to 1 hr before orgasm and it protects you against a lot of the worst POIS symptoms

It doesn't work for everybody, but for most it's almost a miracle.

If you are lucky enough like Omen, to not to have to use anything, then all the better, but there are few of us in that boat.

I will try to help with translation vetro, or hopefully others here can. Thanks and welcome.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: ve-to on February 08, 2012, 07:43:43 AM
I'm sorry  ,maybe i had paste the italian varsion of translation from google translator.. i have to improve my english :)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on February 09, 2012, 06:37:35 AM
Thank u for reply, how long flush going on? i'm little bit scared from a kind of video on youtube ...a man scratching a lot for long time.. :) i'm little bit axiogen :) 
Which way to don't build a niacin resistance?

ps: take niacin 3hrs ago half stomach and no flush.. :S

The flush feels like a mild sunburn, and lasts at most 30 minutes more like 20 min. You can feel the blood pumping in the face and scalp, but it is quite tolerable. Knowing that it is a normal effect and that it will go away soon, helps.

The idea is to take just enough to produce the flush. If you take twice the amount, the flush could last longer and be more uncomfortable. So it's good to do like you and try small amounts working up to the right amount for you.

Food, and I think alcohol before taking the niacin definitely reduces it's effectivity. As I mentioned, I'm not sure how much you would have to take on a half full stomach.

Perhaps the worst part of taking niacin is having to wait 4 to 6 hours after food to take it. It seems that niacin works better earlier in the day too. I took it once at 11:00 AM, after breakfast at 8:00 AM and got a GOOD flush with 100 mg.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Bulls eye on February 09, 2012, 03:15:52 PM
has anyone tried inositol Hexanicotinate its also sold as niacin but its an esterefied form , sadly this is the only form of niacin i've found in my country
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: ve-to on February 10, 2012, 09:58:09 PM
I took 90 mg at 3 in the morning on an empty stomach, small flush .. pois present at 90%: (
It 'just 10 mg from 100 mg that had taken effect, it is strange that it does not work
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: omen on February 12, 2012, 02:07:51 PM
Its not the 10 mg that nakes the difference but its the time..u were awake at 3 that triggered pois...according to what I am reserching on myself and what I have read on the net...the anxiety attack which I get after orgasm is because of the adrenalin...when one orgasms the adrenal spikes when one exercises especially cardio adrenal spikes..adrenal is bad for people with anxiety beacause it interferes withthe chemicals in ur head...I think this causes the brain fog that is pois...
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on February 12, 2012, 04:39:36 PM
I took 90 mg at 3 in the morning on an empty stomach, small flush .. pois present at 90%: (
It 'just 10 mg from 100 mg that had taken effect, it is strange that it does not work

Describe the flush? Did you feel the face sort of burning like sunburn, or just light tingling of the skin?

When I have light flush, (just tingling skin), I have about 60% or 70% reduction. If I have full flush with sunburn sensation and hot face, I get 95% reduction.

Last night I took 100mg and didn't feel any flush. I had fasted (not food for 5 hrs before) but we had a couple of tequila shooters just a little before. So alcohol also affects the affectivity of niacin. I use capsules with powdered niacin inside, so about 25 min after taking the 100 and when I was sure the 100 wasn't going to flush,  I took 50mg more powder right on the tongue. Started to feel a little tingle within 5 min, so took 25mg more and got the flush.

And I am only about 5% POIS today.

So try that. If after about 20 min you don't feel flush, take 50 more. If that doesn't work take 50 more. That should do it.

If you receive a good flush, but still have strong POIS, then maybe niacin just isn't for you.

One of my biggest goals right now is to discover why niacin works AND WHY IT DOESN'T. The clue to POIS is there, and besides we need everybody to have a solution.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: ve-to on February 12, 2012, 06:18:58 PM
little tingling, no strong red. the only difference is that after 8-9 hours and I slept.
Today I took 90 g reduced the dots by 60%.
as a precision balance used? mine is not very precise.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on February 13, 2012, 11:59:27 AM
little tingling, no strong red. the only difference is that after 8-9 hours and I slept.
Today I took 90 g reduced the dots by 60%.
as a precision balance used? mine is not very precise.

What do you mean "reduced the dots".

My weights in grams are all estimates. I have 100 mg capsule that can be opened and so for less than 100mg I open it and take 50% for 50mg. etc.

What form does your niacin come in?

So with 90 mg, you are what I call "borderline" flush. That usually gives me partial relief. With another 20 or 30 mg you should get a good flush, but still not "overwhelming". It is "obvious" but acceptable. Will last about 20 minutes and then starts to subside. Quite acceptable. I even like it. Maybe because I know I will be protected and POIS free!

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on February 13, 2012, 06:30:28 PM


So with 90 mg, you are what I call "borderline" flush. That usually gives me partial relief.

That´s right in my case, Daveman.

I have been using the niacin for 5 months and i can agree with this.

When i get a flush and wait 10-20 min after it fades away ---> No POIS.
When i get a good flush and have an O. on the middle of the flush----> Significative POIS!!
When i get a "borderline" flush ---> No POIS afterwards, but i could feel a very very little weird symptoms on 2nd, 3rd day(5-10% POIS?)

When i do not get the flush ---> I do not have POIS immediately after, but it seems that the next two days i could experience some brain fog. I have felt this way several times. Sometimes i have had another flushed orgasm, that has got rid my previous symptoms, but if i can´t(due to i need to take more niacin to get the flush because my body has got used to it), that symptoms will not dissappear.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: omen on February 13, 2012, 11:11:57 PM
Is there any connection of pois and sedentary life?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on February 14, 2012, 05:45:11 AM
Is there any connection of pois and sedentary life?

I found that making exercise helped my POIS. In fact, this one and sleeping more were the only two methods i used against POIS before discovering the forum.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: omen on February 14, 2012, 10:15:35 AM
Yes sleeping even helps me...and recently I have noticed that walking helps me too...let's see where does this experiment go...I keep on experimenting ways to come out of pois very often...
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: ve-to on February 20, 2012, 08:05:59 AM
which kind of precision balance have u?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: fsol on February 20, 2012, 08:15:07 AM
I have the same experience as observer. 10-20 mins after flush gives the niacin the maximum effect for me too. Mid-flush gives some relief but not much.

Also, after I started exercising, my POIS has gotten better. My thinking was that my physical symptoms were mainly in the thighs, lower back and legs so I started focusing my weight training in the gym on those areas so make them stronger. Combine that with niacin and life with POIS is not that bad for me anymore. Also just eating healthy and staying fit in general has helped me a lot so far.

I'm taking 500mg of niacin now and sometimes I have to take 8-900mg to get the flush. For me it seems like my body is getting used to it as I need more and more to get the flush, but I can't say that for certain. I'm only taking it once or twice a week.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on February 23, 2012, 12:07:12 PM
I have the same experience as observer. 10-20 mins after flush gives the niacin the maximum effect for me too. Mid-flush gives some relief but not much.

Also, after I started exercising, my POIS has gotten better. My thinking was that my physical symptoms were mainly in the thighs, lower back and legs so I started focusing my weight training in the gym on those areas so make them stronger. Combine that with niacin and life with POIS is not that bad for me anymore. Also just eating healthy and staying fit in general has helped me a lot so far.

I'm taking 500mg of niacin now and sometimes I have to take 8-900mg to get the flush. For me it seems like my body is getting used to it as I need more and more to get the flush, but I can't say that for certain. I'm only taking it once or twice a week.

Wow, 500 to 8 or 900 is a lot. Do you observe the fast (both food and alcohol ) prior? Eating or drinking within 3 hrs makes a lot of difference. Even one drink ( or light food) within the 3 hrs can have you requiring at least twice as much niacin.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: fsol on February 23, 2012, 06:35:14 PM
Yes,  I always fast. If I don't, I need around 900mg to get just a slight flush. But I'm almost 2 metres tall and weigh 90 kgs.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: ve-to on February 26, 2012, 09:04:53 AM
Last night I ate a lot, I woke up on an empty stomach and I took the niacin flush 90g ... no, I got another 50 g, no flush, I have taken another 30 g, no flush, no flush another 50 g .. . I had an O and there is pois . Why?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on February 26, 2012, 09:13:51 AM
Last night I ate a lot, I woke up on an empty stomach and I took the niacin flush 90g ... no, I got another 50 g, no flush, I have taken another 30 g, no flush, no flush another 50 g .. . I had an O and there is pois . Why?

I am taking this one, http://www.solgar.com/SolgarProducts/Niacin-Vitamin-B3-100-mg-Tablets.htm - Could you show me the niacin/brand that you are taking? With the amount of niacin you has taken on a very empty stomach i would be burning like hell, have you taken the niacin these last days?

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: ve-to on February 26, 2012, 09:59:15 AM
http://www.arganiascorbile.it/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=niacin&product_id=373

not niacin days before...in past i have always had an effect, even at 90 g for this are concerned. means that has expired? and 'powder inside a plastic bag .. I keep it closed but it takes the air, has expired?

your niacin brand is nicotic acid?

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on February 26, 2012, 10:17:55 AM
http://www.arganiascorbile.it/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=niacin&product_id=373

not niacin days before...in past i have always had an effect, even at 90 g for this are concerned. means that has expired? and 'powder inside a plastic bag .. I keep it closed but it takes the air, has expired?

your niacin brand is nicotic acid?



I don´t think it is a good idea to let the niacin in contact with the air, i have left the bottle open(i forget to close it :( ) and the effect was not the same. I take the niacin in a powder form - It´s better: Faster, stronger flush and no digestive problems(that i had when i did not crush the tablets.)

Don´t worry because this effect never expires, but if you are taking the same amount of niacin every day, the flush is going to be weaker and weaker until it dissappears. To get the flush again (and not increase the dose) you need to stop taking the niacin for several days, and then you will have the flush again.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: ve-to on February 26, 2012, 10:24:19 AM
dont understand: u take nicoti acid in table (your link) or powder?  i take powder
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on February 26, 2012, 03:35:22 PM
http://www.ebay.it/itm/B-3-NIACIN-100mg-x100Caps-HDL-LDL-Osteoarthritis-/250363773188?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Vitamins_Supplements&hash=item3a4ad80104

Find some Niacin on the italian version of ebay.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on February 26, 2012, 03:42:40 PM
dont understand: u take nicoti acid in table (your link) or powder?  i take powder

I crush the tablets and turn them into powder.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on February 26, 2012, 05:08:20 PM
http://www.arganiascorbile.it/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=niacin&product_id=373

not niacin days before...in past i have always had an effect, even at 90 g for this are concerned. means that has expired? and 'powder inside a plastic bag .. I keep it closed but it takes the air, has expired?

your niacin brand is nicotic acid?



I agree with Observer. I have taken capsules that I have left out (I sometimes leave one capsule beside the bed for emergencies ;), but the effect is always weaker. I have since been sure to leave the capsules in a closed container.

The powdered form would be great, but I would put it into smaller 100ml sealed jars. That's probably the problem. Because as you said, lesser amounts have given you a flush.

You might see if some powder that is closer to the center of the mass of powder is "stronger". With any luck, only the surface material has lost strength.

How much is in a bag?

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: ve-to on February 27, 2012, 05:08:50 AM
dont understand: u take nicoti acid in table (your link) or powder?  i take powder

I crush the tablets and turn them into powder.


why crush the tablets??
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: ve-to on February 27, 2012, 05:11:11 AM
http://www.arganiascorbile.it/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=niacin&product_id=373

not niacin days before...in past i have always had an effect, even at 90 g for this are concerned. means that has expired? and 'powder inside a plastic bag .. I keep it closed but it takes the air, has expired?

your niacin brand is nicotic acid?



I agree with Observer. I have taken capsules that I have left out (I sometimes leave one capsule beside the bed for emergencies ;), but the effect is always weaker. I have since been sure to leave the capsules in a closed container.

The powdered form would be great, but I would put it into smaller 100ml sealed jars. That's probably the problem. Because as you said, lesser amounts have given you a flush.

You might see if some powder that is closer to the center of the mass of powder is "stronger". With any luck, only the surface material has lost strength.

How much is in a bag?




100g bags : http://www.arganiascorbile.it/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=niacin&product_id=373
why the powder version as better?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on February 28, 2012, 06:05:06 PM
dont understand: u take nicoti acid in table (your link) or powder?  i take powder

I crush the tablets and turn them into powder.


why crush the tablets??

Because they are more effective :). Do you understand what i am doing? If not, please tell me, i will try to translate it to italian.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: ve-to on March 01, 2012, 03:41:37 AM
i think yes... u crush the tables couse powder have more effective..right?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on March 02, 2012, 05:23:23 PM
I have suggested before and I do it again try having orgasm in the morning after u wake up and then no orgasm for a week or as long as u can control...the day u have orgasm and the other day will be all u will suffer and from the third day life will be normal...it works for me please try it friends instead of having any drugs

That could be related to the fact that Testosterone levels are 30% higher during the morning(after waking up) than the rest of the day.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/tutorials/lowtestosterone/ur189102.pdf
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on March 02, 2012, 05:23:50 PM
i think yes... u crush the tables couse powder have more effective..right?


Yes, that´s right!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: lauracostis on March 27, 2012, 12:16:02 AM
Just to let everyone know, you can have niacin injections made at any compounding pharmacy.  However, you do need a prescription even though niacin is an over the counter drug in the U.S.  I just had 20ml (100mg/ml) of nicotinic acid injections made for me for 50 US dollars.  If you do decide to get a prescription, you need to tell your doctor and the pharmacy that you want "nicotinic acid" and not niacinimide or nicotanimide, because they routinely use the non-flush niacin when they make custom B vitamin complex injections for people. (they probably dont have pure pharmaceutical grade nicotinic acid on hand to make injections, so they may have to order it before they make it)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: lauracostis on March 27, 2012, 12:40:05 AM
Although xanthinol nicotinate is a common form of niacin found outside of the U.S. and can be found as complamin or complamina among many other names ( full list of generic names from most countries found here http://www.agenericdrugs.com/?s=Complamina%20Retard).  However, the only problem is that the injectable form is not that desirable because people can just take the pill form, so is not offered by online pharmacies because no one is looking for it. 
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Ccconfucius on March 27, 2012, 11:17:53 AM
Although xanthinol nicotinate is a common form of niacin found outside of the U.S. and can be found as complamin or complamina among many other names ( full list of generic names from most countries found here http://www.agenericdrugs.com/?s=Complamina%20Retard).  However, the only problem is that the injectable form is not that desirable because people can just take the pill form, so is not offered by online pharmacies because no one is looking for it. 
r u going to try it soon.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on March 30, 2012, 07:49:06 AM
Thanks  :D  Feel all warm and fuzzy inside, and it's actually not POIS!  I actually have a personal announcement to make:  Niacin works for me.  It works WELL.  I said before that it didn't seem to work for me even though I was getting the flush.  But I was not waiting long enough after the flush to O, and for the past two weeks I've been reaping the benefits of HIGHLY reducted POIS symptoms!  It was as simple as that, get the FULL flush (face exploding kind, I need at least 500 mg at fasting to attain this, and i need 4-5 hours fasting), and wait at LEAST 20 minutes for the flush to abate.  It hasn't fully hit me, the implications of this, but it's starting to.  I'm getting a little emotional just write this...!

Near the top of my things to do with the amount of life that I will get back with this is to advocate for treatment of this illness.  I've tasted POIS freedom, and I don't want to have to deal with it ever again!  That means an even better solution than niacin flushing HAS to be found!  AND word has to spread, and it IS spreading virally like a disease! (bad analogy? =p)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: b_jim on April 03, 2012, 02:14:06 AM
I'm 99% convinced my Pois is linked to glycemia and probably insuline but I don't understand why.
Niacin is a cofactor of insuline synthesis but niacin supplements don't really improve my symptoms.

There is something very logical with niacin as cofactor of insuline and then cofactor of *something* in Pois (maybe histamine or steroid hormones or .... something else ).

When I reduce glycemic index food, I reduce insuline secretion and then I save something,  maybe niacin.
Another point is fenugreek and garlic. Fenugreek is one the most hypoglyemic plant known and garlic has a moderate hypoglycemic effect too.
Same thing for Cinnamon.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Bulls eye on April 03, 2012, 09:24:23 AM
I'm 99% convinced my Pois is linked to glycemia and probably insuline but I don't understand why.
Niacin is a cofactor of insuline synthesis but niacin supplements don't really improve my symptoms.

There is something very logical with niacin as cofactor of insuline and then cofactor of *something* in Pois (maybe histamine or steroid hormones or .... something else ).

When I reduce glycemic index food, I reduce insuline secretion and then I save something,  maybe niacin.
Another point is fenugreek and garlic. Fenugreek is one the most hypoglyemic plant known and garlic has a moderate hypoglycemic effect too.
Same thing for Cinnamon.
Try checking your blood sugar level  before niacin and after 2 hours of taking it you'll be suprised as Nicotinic acid (niacin)  among glucocorticoids , protease inhibitors, atypical antipsychotocs are all drugs that induce hyperglycemia , and are one of the main drugs that cause drug induced diabetes mellitus

while i do agree that when i'm in a low carb diest my pois symoptoms decrease and when i use fenugreek and garlic which are hypoglycemic it also decreases my pois , but what they have in common and nictonic acid doesnt is that both garlic and fenugreek have thier positive effect wether taken before or after orgasm , while niacin only works before and it increases blood sugar so it must work in a completely different mechanism
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: b_jim on April 03, 2012, 09:56:42 AM
Yes, of course I don't say niacin may have a negative effect on Pois with its hyperglycemic proprieties.
I just say there is something pumped out with Pois, which is linked to inuslin.
That's why the low GI diet pumps out less something.

Insuline is a chain of 51 amino-acids. But zinc is an important cofactor (zinc links), vitamins B3 and B6 seems to be important cofactors too.

But anyway I have tested my glycemia during "warmth symptom" 30 minutes after meal, day 0. Blood level was normal.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Ccconfucius on April 10, 2012, 09:12:28 PM
can niacin be used everyday, or does it affect liver
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Bulls eye on April 11, 2012, 09:05:16 PM
why would you take it everyday ? there is no need for that
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Ccconfucius on April 12, 2012, 11:52:31 AM
if i would get  benefit from it i would have to use everyday because i dont know when i would get NEs and sex dreams that keep my pois lingering.  I would have to use it right when i go to sleep and  in the middle of the night.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Egordon on April 12, 2012, 07:34:39 PM
Niacin can absolutely be used everyday. In fact, many people with high cholesterol take between 1000 - 2000mg a day! But if you're using Niacin everyday, you should do so under the supervision of a doctor. Especially if you're taking more than 500mg.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: b_jim on April 13, 2012, 01:01:02 AM
My total cholesterol is just under normal value.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on April 14, 2012, 05:29:52 AM
Niacin can absolutely be used everyday. In fact, many people with high cholesterol take between 1000 - 2000mg a day! But if you're using Niacin everyday, you should do so under the supervision of a doctor. Especially if you're taking more than 500mg.

It's true. But taking it every day, you need to take high doses because you establish a higher threshold. Also I'm not sure if taking it every day would "protect you" becasue of the raised tolerance. You would have to "flush" each time, which is what indicates that you have taken enough.

From what I understand, most who take it daily don't flush, even if they take 1000 or 2000 mg.

But CC, I don't think you would have to take it every day. My guess would be that if you had an orgasm every two or three days, you probably wouldn't get NEs. And even if you did get an NE every once in a while, still some protection is better than none.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Ccconfucius on April 14, 2012, 04:15:21 PM
Niacin can absolutely be used everyday. In fact, many people with high cholesterol take between 1000 - 2000mg a day! But if you're using Niacin everyday, you should do so under the supervision of a doctor. Especially if you're taking more than 500mg.

It's true. But taking it every day, you need to take high doses because you establish a higher threshold. Also I'm not sure if taking it every day would "protect you" becasue of the raised tolerance. You would have to "flush" each time, which is what indicates that you have taken enough.

From what I understand, most who take it daily don't flush, even if they take 1000 or 2000 mg.

But CC, I don't think you would have to take it every day. My guess would be that if you had an orgasm every two or three days, you probably wouldn't get NEs. And even if you did get an NE every once in a while, still some protection is better than none.



In addition to what you said i also have to think if it would affect my dessensitization program or not.
Am going to try everyday for two weeks see if it even helps my symptoms, if it does i will transition into every copule of days.
I was going to do everyday rapaflo instead, but that is making me tired and it might actually have more sideffects.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Egordon on April 14, 2012, 04:53:35 PM

It's true. But taking it every day, you need to take high doses because you establish a higher threshold. Also I'm not sure if taking it every day would "protect you" becasue of the raised tolerance. You would have to "flush" each time, which is what indicates that you have taken enough.

From what I understand, most who take it daily don't flush, even if they take 1000 or 2000 mg.

But CC, I don't think you would have to take it every day. My guess would be that if you had an orgasm every two or three days, you probably wouldn't get NEs. And even if you did get an NE every once in a while, still some protection is better than none.



Are people who take it everyday not seeing results because of the lack of flush? I thought that we decided that a flush wasn't necessary for diminished symptoms?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on April 14, 2012, 05:51:03 PM
Niacin can absolutely be used everyday. In fact, many people with high cholesterol take between 1000 - 2000mg a day! But if you're using Niacin everyday, you should do so under the supervision of a doctor. Especially if you're taking more than 500mg.

It's true. But taking it every day, you need to take high doses because you establish a higher threshold. Also I'm not sure if taking it every day would "protect you" becasue of the raised tolerance. You would have to "flush" each time, which is what indicates that you have taken enough.

From what I understand, most who take it daily don't flush, even if they take 1000 or 2000 mg.

But CC, I don't think you would have to take it every day. My guess would be that if you had an orgasm every two or three days, you probably wouldn't get NEs. And even if you did get an NE every once in a while, still some protection is better than none.



In addition to what you said i also have to think if it would affect my dessensitization program or not.
Am going to try everyday for two weeks see if it even helps my symptoms, if it does i will transition into every copule of days.
I was going to do everyday rapaflo instead, but that is making me tired and it might actually have more sideffects.

B complex has had reports of helping when taken daily. Not sure of the doseage. Almost bought some today, but wasn't sure of the dosage and the pills were rather expensive.

$14 for 20. They had 1mg B1, and 200 each of B6 and B12. No idea how that is for dosage.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on April 14, 2012, 05:59:01 PM

It's true. But taking it every day, you need to take high doses because you establish a higher threshold. Also I'm not sure if taking it every day would "protect you" becasue of the raised tolerance. You would have to "flush" each time, which is what indicates that you have taken enough.

From what I understand, most who take it daily don't flush, even if they take 1000 or 2000 mg.

But CC, I don't think you would have to take it every day. My guess would be that if you had an orgasm every two or three days, you probably wouldn't get NEs. And even if you did get an NE every once in a while, still some protection is better than none.



Are people who take it everyday not seeing results because of the lack of flush? I thought that we decided that a flush wasn't necessary for diminished symptoms?

The flush ISN'T the reason that the symptoms are releived, but it is like the marker that you've taken enough to help. Without the flush the beneficial effects are much less.

I've had a couple of times that I didn't have a flush, but I felt like I was "on the verge". I had reduced symptoms, but the POIS was only reduced by 50% instead of my usual 85 to 90%.

It would be interesting to see if taking it daily and having a constant dose of niacin in the system aleviates symptoms, even though the person isn't getting the flush.

Evidence so far implies that without the flush the system hasn't reached a level where it is saturated. Taking it daily raises the level of saturation. Without saturation, there is much less protection.



Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Jon on April 22, 2012, 12:56:31 PM
Guys, Can Niacin be taken in conjunction with with garlic or blueberrys before sex? Or how about things such as saw palmetto or vitamins? Or is it best to take it alone?

I appreciate your time,

Jon.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Ccconfucius on April 24, 2012, 05:30:20 PM

It's true. But taking it every day, you need to take high doses because you establish a higher threshold. Also I'm not sure if taking it every day would "protect you" becasue of the raised tolerance. You would have to "flush" each time, which is what indicates that you have taken enough.

From what I understand, most who take it daily don't flush, even if they take 1000 or 2000 mg.

But CC, I don't think you would have to take it every day. My guess would be that if you had an orgasm every two or three days, you probably wouldn't get NEs. And even if you did get an NE every once in a while, still some protection is better than none.



Are people who take it everyday not seeing results because of the lack of flush? I thought that we decided that a flush wasn't necessary for diminished symptoms?

The flush ISN'T the reason that the symptoms are releived, but it is like the marker that you've taken enough to help. Without the flush the beneficial effects are much less.

I've had a couple of times that I didn't have a flush, but I felt like I was "on the verge". I had reduced symptoms, but the POIS was only reduced by 50% instead of my usual 85 to 90%.

It would be interesting to see if taking it daily and having a constant dose of niacin in the system aleviates symptoms, even though the person isn't getting the flush.

Evidence so far implies that without the flush the system hasn't reached a level where it is saturated. Taking it daily raises the level of saturation. Without saturation, there is much less protection.




http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/sj.bjp.0707668/full
I found a way to see if flush is the reason niacin works or not.
Luteolin has being found to reduce niacin flush by amost 90%.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/sj.bjp.0707668/full

Niacin (7.5 mg per rat, equivalent to a human dose of 1750 mg per 80 kg) maximally increased ear temperature to 1.9±0.2 oC at 45 min. Quercetin and luteolin (4.3 mg per rat; 1000 mg per human), administered i.p. 45 min prior to niacin, inhibited the niacin effect by 96 and 88%, respectively. Aspirin (1.22 mg per rat; 325 mg per human) inhibited the niacin effect by only 30%. Niacin almost doubled plasma PGD2 and 5-HT, but aspirin reduced only PGD2 by 86%. In contrast, luteolin inhibited both plasma PGD2 and 5-HT levels by 100 and 67%, respectively.

Conclusions and implications.
Niacin-induced skin temperature increase is associated with PGD2 and 5-HT elevations in rats; luteolin may be a better inhibitor of niacin-induced flush because it blocks the rise in both mediators.

British Journal of Pharmacology (2008) 153, 1382–1387; doi:10.103
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on April 25, 2012, 07:10:02 AM
Although I'm not so sure that the PGD2 and 5-HT don't contribute to the beneficial effects of niacin.

They may cause the flush, and although the flush isn't the reason than niacin is beneficial, the elements that cause it might be.

So we may still be "in the dark".

The experiment would still be worth a try, but we'd have to know how to interpret the data!

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Ccconfucius on April 26, 2012, 02:07:18 PM
Although I'm not so sure that the PGD2 and 5-HT don't contribute to the beneficial effects of niacin.

They may cause the flush, and although the flush isn't the reason than niacin is beneficial, the elements that cause it might be.

So we may still be "in the dark".

The experiment would still be worth a try, but we'd have to know how to interpret the data!



If the luteolin blocks flush and niacin still works then, we will know, it is not release of pdg2 and 5 ht. We can also add aspirin to, to block it all.

I guess we can start  with differences and similarities with niacinmide.
Are we sure niancinminde works. I think guthrie said niacinmide required alot to work we can look into if niacin and niacinmide a property or cause something similar but niacin does more of it.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on April 28, 2012, 05:41:19 AM
Well, that's true.

It would be one less component in the equation.

From my perspective, it would be good then that the luteolin blocks flush and makes the niacin non-effective.
(Because I feel that PGD2 and or 5-HT are the "active ingredients") This would make it even harder though to
explain why it's not the flush that reduces the symptoms.

Also I really would like to see more experimenting with niacinimide.

Anyone know how PGD2 and 5-HT are affected with niacinimide?

Yes a lot more niacinimide is required.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: 0002ppdnuos on May 25, 2012, 06:56:20 AM
Dear all, can I ask? If Niacin is supposed to be taken an hour prior to an orgasm, how do you guys use it to prevent POIS caused by involuntary nocturnal emission?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on May 25, 2012, 10:28:03 AM
NEs are reduced with more sex. If one is realtively satisfied, they are less likely to have NEs.

So I think if niacin works for you and allows you to have sex once every four days at least, the chance of NE is much less.


It seems like 4 days is more or less the NE cycle. So if you take niacin every night (as close as possible to when the NE would occur) the NE should have least effect. Then You wouldn't have to take niacin for at least two days, or three.

As I said, also if you manage to increase your "day sex", you should also decrease your NEs.

First, you have to see if niacin works for you.

Find a Good description of the procedure, and follow it to the letter. If it works, follow the above.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: 0002ppdnuos on May 28, 2012, 05:22:17 PM
As I said, also if you manage to increase your "day sex", you should also decrease your NEs.
First, you have to see if niacin works for you.
Find a Good description of the procedure, and follow it to the letter. If it works, follow the above.
I get it, thanks.
I'll try it when I get the niacin.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on May 29, 2012, 09:14:38 AM
As I said, also if you manage to increase your "day sex", you should also decrease your NEs.
First, you have to see if niacin works for you.
Find a Good description of the procedure, and follow it to the letter. If it works, follow the above.
I get it, thanks.
I'll try it when I get the niacin.

There was another answer that was pretty good too in respect to the NEs problem, that being the "reset" effect that a second orgasm with niacin has.

If you have an NE and start to get POIS. Some of us have noted that you can stop symptoms by taking niacin and then having another orgasm. Normally niacin doesn’t work once POIS has started, BUT, if you take the niacin and then have another orgasm as soon as the niacin flush has passed, the POIS goes away.
It seems that something in the orgasm “activates” the niacin, which in turn works to stop POIS. This procedure hasn’t been widely tested, only two have reported this result, probably because few are brave enough to try to see if it works. But if you already have POIS, I  guess it would be worth a try.

So there you have two alternatives.

The first to hopefully reduce the occurrence of NEs and the second to “fix” the POIS if you couldn’t avoid it.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: 0002ppdnuos on May 31, 2012, 11:05:09 AM
Many thanks for the guide, Daveman.
And I'm wondering if niacin works, would brewer's yeast as well?
Brewer's yeast is high in niacin and more easily available.
Maybe that is worth a try too.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on May 31, 2012, 07:39:48 PM
Interesting, I didn't know that!

I wonder how much you'd have to take to get a flush.... and what other things might it do?

Do you have some data on it contents, maybe other components, vitamins etc. it might have??

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: 0002ppdnuos on June 03, 2012, 07:50:53 AM
The nutrition fact of brewer's yeast is listed down comprehensively in the following website:
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/custom/1323569/2
There are 10mg of niacin per 30g serving (2 tablespoons).
Since most of us seem to get a flush at 100mg, one serving of brewer's yeast doesn't seem to be able to cause a flush.
But brewer's yeast, in long run, might be a good supplement for POIS sufferers.
If anyone had tried it, do share your experience.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: 0002ppdnuos on June 04, 2012, 11:35:18 AM
I'm so excited that my niacin had just arrived.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on June 04, 2012, 02:39:09 PM
I'm so excited that my niacin had just arrived.


Follow the rules to the letter, at least the first time. It’s very important that it’s taken in just the right way.
Nothing in the stomach (fast for at LEAST 3 hrs), OR dissolve under the tongue, do not swallow.
It should be the flush kind.
Take it BEFORE the orgasm Start with 100mg the first time maybe 150mg.
Wait for the flush, it’s like a mild sunburn, the face pulses with the heart beat, but nothing too wild, as long as you don’t take too much. And the flush only lasts about 20 minutes.
Once the peak of the flush has passed, (which is important for BEST effects), THEN you can set in to “the fun”.
Enjoy the miracle.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: 0002ppdnuos on June 05, 2012, 08:37:50 AM
I couldn't wait but had taken a 100mg Niacin last night.
It was the third day of my POIS session last night.
No flush happened before I went to bed.
Today, I feel good. No lethargy, just a little tiredness, very little brain fog.
The significant effect that I feel is that I have the feel to go to bed at night, which is now.
That's very encouraging for me.

Thanks everyone.
I thought I'm going to live with POIS this lifetime.
It's obviously changing now.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: 0002ppdnuos on June 18, 2012, 10:07:31 AM
'Niacine has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.'
Daveman, do you mean symptoms lasts for a day even though you take niacin before an O?

Should I see the flush all over my body for it to be considered heavy?
I only notice mild rash on my ears, back of my head, and neck.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on June 18, 2012, 11:07:59 AM
'Niacine has changed my lif though, now 1 day MAX.'
Daveman, do you mean symptoms lasts for a day even though you take niacin before an O?

Should I see the flush all over my body for it to be considered heavy?
I only notice mild rash on my ears, back of my head, and neck.



Heavy is when it makes your stomach feel funny or even nauseous and burns fairlystrongly.

For me a good flush is one which lasts about 20 minutes, scalp and face burn like a mild sunburn, maybe the face pulses. Sometimes I get red patches on my forearms and upper legs, maybe chest. When that happens it lasts a little longer, but if it subsides within 20 minutes or so (even though it doesn’t completely disappear) then its what I call a good flush.

If it lasts for an hour, it was probably a little on the heavy side. My stomach muscles twitch when it’s a little heavier.

The important factor is that you let it pass the peak. The ideal is to wait about an hour from when you first take the niacin to when you have the “O”.

I take “up to 400mg” or flush, which ever comes first. I usually do 200mg right away, under the tongue and wait about 5 or 10 minutes to see what will happen (if it kicks in good or not). If I don’t get a flush I do another 100, wait 5 min, if still no flush I do 100 more. After waiting the hour (from first niacin) I do it anyways, even if I don’t flush. I am usually protected.

So the flush is not ALWAYS the indicator, but a good guideline.

I’ve taken the 400 without flush and had zero POIS, and taken 150 with heavy flush (in the morning for instance) and had 1 day of POIS. In this latter case, the flush came quick and hard, and I didn’t wait the hour.

 When I’m flushing strong and have sex, the sex is real good, it feels good with the niacin, but the protection isn’t as good!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: 0002ppdnuos on June 18, 2012, 01:12:43 PM
oic, thanks.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on June 19, 2012, 04:04:31 AM
From Wikipedia: Niacin flushing means a realese of prostaglandin PGD2, which is involved in the regulation of reducing body temperature in sleep, and acts opposite to prostaglandin E2. Prostaglandin E2 is a compound of semen: Although PGD2 had a potent immunosuppressive effect on male rats, human semen was almost devoid of PGD2 (<0.2 pug/ml). On the other hand,
PGE2 was the major PG among the three PGs in human semen, a result was confirmed by gas chromatography/mass spectrometry (unpublished data). The concentration ofPGE2 in human semen was 61 ± 15 ,ug/ml (mean ± SEM, n = 7) in this study. The concentration of PGF2. was 5 ± 1 ,ug/ml. PGE2 is also the prostaglandin that ultimately induces fever. Perhaps we do have too much PGE2 in semen?


PGE2 and testosterone: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1446608


How to reduce PGE2 in semen without taking testosterone patches? With NSAIDs we have too low concentrations in the prostate.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on June 19, 2012, 04:35:47 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/bald-mens-cure-hopes-buoyed-by-pge2-protein-discovery-16134562.html

Did some noticed hair loss from taking niacin?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on June 19, 2012, 11:08:50 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/bald-mens-cure-hopes-buoyed-by-pge2-protein-discovery-16134562.html

Did some noticed hair loss from taking niacin?

Not so far!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on June 19, 2012, 11:25:42 AM
Did the niacin worked for you if you have taken too much o niacin? If you are having a very strong flush that last for 1 hour does it work for POIS?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: vandam on June 19, 2012, 11:28:16 AM
As you guys know, I`m a new member and I was wondering what the best thing is to start with. Like a long before an `O` should I take niacine and should I take also something else with it??
What do you guys recommend me?

Thank you.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on June 19, 2012, 12:51:24 PM
Did the niacin worked for you if you have taken too much o niacin? If you are having a very strong flush that last for 1 hour does it work for POIS?

If I have taken too much and the flush lasts for an hour or more, it hasn't worked as well, but that's usually because I haven't let the flush subside a bit I think.

If I have one of those that last at least an hour, I'm going to wait until a good part of the redness goes from the arms and legs, until I don't feel much of the burning sensation when I touch some part of the body.

But I think it should be enough to wait an hour, perhaps an hour and a half. I have usually "started in" on the fun before half and hour. Thinking that it was enough that the flush had arrived.

 
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on June 19, 2012, 12:56:03 PM
As you guys know, I`m a new member and I was wondering what the best thing is to start with. Like a long before an `O` should I take niacine and should I take also something else with it??
What do you guys recommend me?

Thank you.

Shouldn't be necessary to take anything with it.

With empty stomach (no eating or drinking alcohol about 3 hrs at least before taking niacin)

Just take 100 to 200 mg niacin, wait for the flush, then about an hour after taking the first niacin "do your thing"!

Should be flush type niacin.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on June 19, 2012, 01:43:04 PM
Do you get symptoms of prostatits when you take niacin or you dont get this symptoms of POIS anymore?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on June 19, 2012, 02:39:30 PM
Do you get symptoms of prostatits when you take niacin or you dont get this symptoms of POIS anymore?

Yeah I still do a bit. I think it's  less, but it's there, for about 4 days.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Starsky on June 20, 2012, 06:22:49 AM
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/24038104_The_Anti-Inflammatory_Effects_of_Prostaglandins

This theory gives us a better understanding of the problem: Ejaculation while we are flushing (PGD2 in its inflammatory phase) makes POIS worse, after the flush (PGD2 as antinflammatory factor or its metabolites) no POIS.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on June 20, 2012, 09:05:07 AM
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/24038104_The_Anti-Inflammatory_Effects_of_Prostaglandins

This theory gives us a better understanding of the problem: Ejaculation while we are flushing (PGD2 in its inflammatory phase) makes POIS worse, after the flush (PGD2 as antinflammatory factor or its metabolites) no POIS.

Great find Starsky.

This is at the center of POIS I'm sure. We just have to find out WHY US?

But very exciting!!

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: demografx on June 30, 2012, 09:32:23 PM

(http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab143/demografx/8eccedd4.jpg)


Please click H E R E now to donate  to The POIS Medical Research Fund (http://www.rarediseases.org/about/support/research-donations/fg_base_view_p3)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: demografx on July 01, 2012, 07:16:47 AM

What does "DONATE FUNDS" mean? Why should I donate? What is it all about???  
Please Click H E R E (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=125.0http://www.poiscenter.com/forums/index.php)


Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: vonstermommy on July 29, 2012, 02:57:13 AM
My husband has taken Niacin about 5 times. This is because of the POIS forums - thanks!!  He told me that the first day he was at 90% free of POIS.  He was so happy - first time since puberty.

Last night he crushed it up onto a teaspoon.  It tasted awful. Went to sleep about 45 minutes.  He thought he had awoken because of the flush. We had sex. Today, he had all of his symptoms.  So flush or No flush?  It must depend on the person and the amount.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on July 29, 2012, 03:58:55 AM
My husband has taken Niacin about 5 times. This is because of the POIS forums - thanks!!  He told me that the first day he was at 90% free of POIS.  He was so happy - first time since puberty.

Last night he crushed it up onto a teaspoon.  It tasted awful. Went to sleep about 45 minutes.  He thought he had awoken because of the flush. We had sex. Today, he had all of his symptoms.  So flush or No flush?  It must depend on the person and the amount.

So, did he experience the flush? Otherwise, experiencing the flush doesn´t equal 100% free of symptoms. I believe it works if you take the adequate amount and if you experience the flush.

Daveman has reported that the flush is not 100% neccessary if he takes an high amount. How much is he taking? Send regards to him  :D (and regards to you of course!)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on July 29, 2012, 07:02:47 AM
My husband has taken Niacin about 5 times. This is because of the POIS forums - thanks!!  He told me that the first day he was at 90% free of POIS.  He was so happy - first time since puberty.

Last night he crushed it up onto a teaspoon.  It tasted awful. Went to sleep about 45 minutes.  He thought he had awoken because of the flush. We had sex. Today, he had all of his symptoms.  So flush or No flush?  It must depend on the person and the amount.

Great to hear from a partner, hear the other side of the story!

As far a niacin, when it works it usually works quite well, but it is pretty finicky! There's a procedure here:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=319.msg4160#msg4160

that is pretty good! These would be the basic guidlines, but are quite strict.

As Observer says, the flush is a good guidline, it USUALLY indicates when you have had enough, but not always.

We say "on an empty stomach", but in my experience, it relates to how hard the liver is working. I think, that even just alcohol
for instance can reduce the effect. I don't mean whether you are drunk or not, but if you've had a couple of drinks, like after a nice
dinner, those too need to be considered in the pre-niacin "fast".

If you have a light sandwich one hour before the niacin, probably it won't affect things much, but if you have barbecued pork ribs you
might have to wait a good 4 hrs. (or take more niacin)

I've noticed that if I have eaten too closely to taking the niacin, that I may not ever reach the flush, or just barely. But as Observer says
in those cases I have to take near 500mg. And usually I'm protected anyways.

Also if you take too large a dose on an empty stomach and have a real heavy flush, you may try to start in on the sex before your body is ready,
and even though you have had a big flush, you are not protected.

So besides the "waiting 20 minutes" after the peak of the flush, you should add, Wait 1 hour from the first tingling of the flush (and if you don't get flush)
about 1 hour and 20 since starting to take the niacin.

All very complicated, but worth it.
In hubbies case. He isn't sure of he got the flush, so it would be difficult to know if he was "protected". Try the above techniques.

The whole niacin process can sometimes take the spontaneity out the the moment. We are working on a new B complex treatment which has
much less strict rules. You take the vitamins daily and here is no flush. But it is fairly new and we are working out the details.

See this exciting thread!:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=468.0

Thanks from all of us for being such a patient and involved wife!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: demografx on July 29, 2012, 09:08:01 AM
   (http://www.poiscenter.com/newsletters/NL-6.jpg) (http://www.rarediseases.org/about/support/research-donations/fg_base_view_p3)
 
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: vonstermommy on July 30, 2012, 06:58:25 PM


So, did he experience the flush? Otherwise, experiencing the flush doesn´t equal 100% free of symptoms. I believe it works if you take the adequate amount and if you experience the flush.

Daveman has reported that the flush is not 100% neccessary if he takes an high amount. How much is he taking? Send regards to him  :D (and regards to you of course!)
[/quote]

Thank you for your reply. We dont know whether he flushed or not.  When he has flushed, he is not 100% free but what a relief to have some of the symptoms go away.  He takes Tylenol every four hours of if really bad a Maxalt for the headaches.  Nothing for diarrhea. As we speak he is coming home early as he is not feeling well (same episode).
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: vonstermommy on July 30, 2012, 07:17:20 PM


As far a niacin, when it works it usually works quite well, but it is pretty finicky! There's a procedure here:
http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=319.msg4160#msg4160


Hi, Im not sure how to reply...so I clicked "quote"  Thank you for the article - I will read with my husband.  I am seriously thinking of writing a book, well, probably a blog - A he said, she said.  Because we "waited" before marriage (1998), I didnt out about his POIS until the honeymoon.  After one O,  he didnt want to go there again for the rest of the 2 weeks.

Me: Why?
Him "well you know" 
Me: Uh, no? what?
Him "you feel sick afterwards"
Me: "after what?"

and well you can figure out the rest of the conversation.  Poor guy - its been tough - NO info on google searches or doctors, so we gave up trying to "google" it. Then a few months ago we saw the video newscast of a man (that is on this forum) suffering from POIS. The one where he tells his "first date" about POIS. And he found you!   Boo to his doctor and specialist and sex therapist - we have hope.  Hope! He read about Niacin (specifically on the page where you tell how many tried it and the success rate) and that first morning after...he smiled! But whats just as big? He is not alone anymore.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: vonstermommy on July 31, 2012, 01:43:38 PM
Update on my husband.

Short summary - took Niacin 5 times, flushed, 70-90% symptoms gone!
Last weekend - not sure if flushed and POIS :(

Last night he said "This is the worst I have ever felt"  So we will not consider sexual intercourse (I just wanted to use that phrase) for at least two weeks.  My concern is that  "it is the worst" after each time.  He is not whining, it really is worse than the last time.  And, I dont mean to be dramatic or scary, or even humorous, but I honestly think Im killing my husband with sex.  For him, 300mg Niacin is the way to go - just working on tweaking the dose, time, and frequency.

If you have a partner - please tell them to email me.  If you haven't tried Niacin - I would say, "Ask your GP first."  But he may just tell you "Its psychological, here is some Zoloft."
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on July 31, 2012, 02:58:00 PM
Update on my husband.

Short summary - took Niacin 5 times, flushed, 70-90% symptoms gone!
Last weekend - not sure if flushed and POIS :(

Last night he said "This is the worst I have ever felt"  So we will not consider sexual intercourse (I just wanted to use that phrase) for at least two weeks.  My concern is that  "it is the worst" after each time.  He is not whining, it really is worse than the last time.  And, I dont mean to be dramatic or scary, or even humorous, but I honestly think Im killing my husband with sex.  For him, 300mg Niacin is the way to go - just working on tweaking the dose, time, and frequency.

If you have a partner - please tell them to email me.  If you haven't tried Niacin - I would say, "Ask your GP first."  But he may just tell you "Its psychological, here is some Zoloft."



Several have said that if for some reason, like your husband, there is a bad session, that you can do another niacin session with orgasm (correctly) and it will not only protect you but remove the previous POIS. Just taking the niacin though without orgasm does nothing for prexistant POIS. You have to have another orgasm after you take the naicin.

I personally have found that if I am iffy (medium POIS after taking niacin without waiting after eating), I can take the niacin in about 36 hours and have another orgasm, and I feel great. It sort of does a “reset”.

But still, even with niacin, too many orgasms in a row can gang up on you and the niacin is less effective. But I’m talking about maybe 4 times a week… not just a second one to reset the first every once in a while.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: demografx on August 06, 2012, 09:30:23 AM


(http://www.wagingpeace.org/images/support/donation_image_main.jpg)

$9,270.00 $9,350.00 $10,272.00 $10,802.00 raised    
THANK YOU TO THE RETURNING MONTHLY DONOR TODAY!!!!
towards our $33,500 goal.

(http://sholomfoundation.com/org_files/718/images/AnimatedDonateNow.gif)
Click here to CURE POIS: (http://www.rarediseases.org/about/support/research-donations/fg_base_view_p3)





Click here to read more about The POIS Medical Fund (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=125.0)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: poisioq on August 10, 2012, 02:32:07 PM
I would like to try niacin but i am scared because i am also affected by irritable colon and i've read that xanthiol nicotinate could trigger stomach pain as it happened to some of the members of this forum.
is there a safe way to take it?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on August 10, 2012, 03:52:47 PM
I would like to try niacin but i am scared because i am also affected by irritable colon and i've read that xanthiol nicotinate could trigger stomach pain as it happened to some of the members of this forum.
is there a safe way to take it?


In my experience, I’ve only had strange things happen to the stomach with a very strong flush (taking too much). Even then the effect is very transient and goes away quickly. It’s like it causes temporary muscle spasms.

It's not like an acid producing thing.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: poisioq on August 11, 2012, 05:40:27 AM
ok thank you for yor quick reply.
I am italian living in spain. have some spanish guy in the forum found a good brand in here (not the flush-free one)?
if not, which one could I buy on the net?
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on August 11, 2012, 07:26:52 AM
Online the brand that works very well for me is Nature's Way. I get the 100mg capsule, so you can open it up to create partial doses... easy to take 150 mg for example.

I'm sure someone from Spain can let you know if there's something available off the shelf.

Try the first time in the morning, or sometime when you can fast for a good 6 hrs before taking the niacin. Then just take 100 to 150mg.

With a good fast before, that dosage should give you a good flush without any stomach problems and with luck, you'll be very surprised how much it reduces the POIS.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: ve-to on August 11, 2012, 10:01:14 AM




[ hello daveman took natures way of 100, too. on ebay. ]
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: poisioq on August 11, 2012, 12:14:56 PM

Grazie ve-to
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: haidcat on August 13, 2012, 08:12:06 PM
I had a quick question on niacin. To the people who find it useful, if you are in the middle of a POIS episode, does it take you out of one if you take niacin and orgasm? Or, do you still have to wait for the episode to end, and the niacin just protects you from future episodes?

Because I tried niacin, and i felt it didnt do much for me... but I was in the middle of an episode and I feel like maybe it was the previous episodes symptoms rather than the niacin not working...
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on August 14, 2012, 08:34:29 AM
I had a quick question on niacin. To the people who find it useful, if you are in the middle of a POIS episode, does it take you out of one if you take niacin and orgasm? Or, do you still have to wait for the episode to end, and the niacin just protects you from future episodes?

Because I tried niacin, and i felt it didnt do much for me... but I was in the middle of an episode and I feel like maybe it was the previous episodes symptoms rather than the niacin not working...

Yes, I've found, that as long as you take the niacin AND have an orgasm, it takes you out of the POIS. As long as the niacin is taken by the rules with flush and proper timing!

It's a God send!!

Taking niacin to releive POIS is almost an artform!! I have tried to compensate for short fast periods by taking more niacin, but that doesn't really work well, it's not consistent, AND hard on the liver.

If you are in a POIS session and want to get out, take the niacin well fasted (at least 6 hrs) and have the orgasm at least 30 min. after the flush, which should be good (100 to 200mg niacin).

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: demografx on August 14, 2012, 10:27:25 AM


(http://www.wagingpeace.org/images/support/donation_image_main.jpg)

$9,270.00 $9,350.00 $10,272.00 $11,002.00 raised    
THANK YOU TO THE RETURNING MONTHLY DONOR !!!!
towards our $33,500 goal.

(http://sholomfoundation.com/org_files/718/images/AnimatedDonateNow.gif)
Click here to CURE POIS: (http://www.rarediseases.org/about/support/research-donations/fg_base_view_p3)





Click here to read more about The POIS Medical Fund (http://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=125.0)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Observer on September 03, 2012, 09:49:39 PM
This has to be one of the best days of my life. I have had two orgasms in the same day and i feel 100% free of brain fog, my mind is clear, excellent mood...  A decisive victory against POIS but the battle is not over. It would have been impossible if not were for all the people that come here to fight against this condition. Thank you very much. :)

Today It is my "birthday",  This 4th September was a special day... It was the first day when I could be finally myself after an O. It was the day when I hit back strongly at the POIS monster after so much time suffering from the illness- 7 years - and it has been an AMAZING year ... Thank you everyone here for your incredible help, we are a strong team and I am sure that in the end everyone will get rid of the suffering that this illness has brought to our lives.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Prancer on September 03, 2012, 10:28:07 PM
Today It is my "birthday",  This 4th September was a special day... It was the first day when I could be finally myself after an O. It was the day when I hit back strongly at the POIS monster after so much time suffering from the illness- 7 years - and it has been an AMAZING year ... Thank you everyone here for your incredible help, we are a strong team and I am sure that in the end everyone will get rid of the suffering that this illness has brought to our lives.

Happy birthday Observer! 8)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: urano75 on March 12, 2013, 05:12:13 AM
Hi Folks,
let me share what's going on with my niacin experiments.
I'm still using a batch of few-months-old 500mg full-flush niacin (Nicotinic Acid), while I'm waiting to receive fresh 100mg caspules.
It's been a couple of times that I wake-up early morning and, being sure this way that I've had enough fasting hours and I'm far from any other supplements, I take 500mg of that niacin and wait in bed for the flush to happen. Well, something very weak happens 30 mins after, but eventually I fall deeply asleep again. Then I wake up (later than usual) in the morning 2-3 hours after, and a small flush happens again as I take my supplements or eat something. In other words, I never get a full-blown flush this way, especially on empty stomach when it's supposed to happen.

500mg are quite a bit, and I'm using this big amount because it's not so fresh, the flush doesn't occur right away nonetheless.
Also, the fact that a small flush occurs few hours after when I eat something means that some of that niacin is still around, waiting to be fully metabolized, is my assumption wrong? As if niacin metabolization is somehow slowed down. Or is it normal this way?
Finally, I slept in and didn't wake-up very refreshed. Not so unusual for me, but something to be considered anyway.

I'll wait for the fresh batch and test with smaller doses, but does this all say anything to any of you?
Thanks,
Andrea
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on March 12, 2013, 06:43:30 AM
Hi Folks,
let me share what's going on with my niacin experiments.
I'm still using a batch of few-months-old 500mg full-flush niacin (Nicotinic Acid), while I'm waiting to receive fresh 100mg caspules.
It's been a couple of times that I wake-up early morning and, being sure this way that I've had enough fasting hours and I'm far from any other supplements, I take 500mg of that niacin and wait in bed for the flush to happen. Well, something very weak happens 30 mins after, but eventually I fall deeply asleep again. Then I wake up (later than usual) in the morning 2-3 hours after, and a small flush happens again as I take my supplements or eat something. In other words, I never get a full-blown flush this way, especially on empty stomach when it's supposed to happen.

500mg are quite a bit, and I'm using this big amount because it's not so fresh, the flush doesn't occur right away nonetheless.
Also, the fact that a small flush occurs few hours after when I eat something means that some of that niacin is still around, waiting to be fully metabolized, is my assumption wrong? As if niacin metabolization is somehow slowed down. Or is it normal this way?
Finally, I slept in and didn't wake-up very refreshed. Not so unusual for me, but something to be considered anyway.

I'll wait for the fresh batch and test with smaller doses, but does this all say anything to any of you?
Thanks,
Andrea

That happened to me with a batch that I bought on Amazon I think it was, don't remembe the brand right now.

It said pure niacin, nothing more. I was in capsules, 500mg. I opened up the capsule and separated out 150 mg.
I noticed that it didn't really taste like the niacin I had used successfully. Maybe similar, but it seemed that the powder didn't dissolve rapidly like the "good stuff" did.

I took a whole 500mg (for me if it was the regular niacin, I'd be burning up, but didn't get anything until a couple of hours later. And like you said, it lasted on and off for several hours).
So I assumed it was a buffered niacin. The powder coated with gelling substance that doesn't let all the niacin get to your system at the same time.

Once you get good niacin, BE CAREFUL. DON'T take 500 at once

My good stuff is Nature's Way 100 mg capsules.The only one I can vouch for, but there are others.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: urano75 on March 12, 2013, 07:35:35 AM
Hi Folks,
let me share what's going on with my niacin experiments.
I'm still using a batch of few-months-old 500mg full-flush niacin (Nicotinic Acid), while I'm waiting to receive fresh 100mg caspules.
It's been a couple of times that I wake-up early morning and, being sure this way that I've had enough fasting hours and I'm far from any other supplements, I take 500mg of that niacin and wait in bed for the flush to happen. Well, something very weak happens 30 mins after, but eventually I fall deeply asleep again. Then I wake up (later than usual) in the morning 2-3 hours after, and a small flush happens again as I take my supplements or eat something. In other words, I never get a full-blown flush this way, especially on empty stomach when it's supposed to happen.

500mg are quite a bit, and I'm using this big amount because it's not so fresh, the flush doesn't occur right away nonetheless.
Also, the fact that a small flush occurs few hours after when I eat something means that some of that niacin is still around, waiting to be fully metabolized, is my assumption wrong? As if niacin metabolization is somehow slowed down. Or is it normal this way?
Finally, I slept in and didn't wake-up very refreshed. Not so unusual for me, but something to be considered anyway.

I'll wait for the fresh batch and test with smaller doses, but does this all say anything to any of you?
Thanks,
Andrea

That happened to me with a batch that I bought on Amazon I think it was, don't remembe the brand right now.

It said pure niacin, nothing more. I was in capsules, 500mg. I opened up the capsule and separated out 150 mg.
I noticed that it didn't really taste like the niacin I had used successfully. Maybe similar, but it seemed that the powder didn't dissolve rapidly like the "good stuff" did.

I took a whole 500mg (for me if it was the regular niacin, I'd be burning up, but didn't get anything until a couple of hours later. And like you said, it lasted on and off for several hours).
So I assumed it was a buffered niacin. The powder coated with gelling substance that doesn't let all the niacin get to your system at the same time.

Once you get good niacin, BE CAREFUL. DON'T take 500 at once

My good stuff is Nature's Way 100 mg capsules.The only one I can vouch for, but there are others.



Thanks Daveman.

Mine was this http://www.twinlab.com/product/niacin-b-3-caps-500-mg, I thought it could be OK.
I've ordered the Nature's Way 100mg , they're on their way.

I was wondering if there might be other factors causing this strange behavior, e.g. the way niacin is metabolyzed in my body.
I'm feeling fatigued today even with no sex. As I suspect to be undermethylating (see my history), I must understand if I can tolerate niacin well....
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: urano75 on March 21, 2013, 07:57:48 AM
A quick update on my niacin experiments.
I finally got the Nature's Way 100mg cps, which are recommended by many here.
I decided to have a try yesterday, after 2 weeks abstaining from sex.
I took 200mg at 22:20, after 3 hours fasting.
40 mins after waiting for the flush, I took 100mg every 15 mins until I reached 500mg: still no flush.
I had an O around midnight, even without flush.
I had a challenging night with seasonal allergies symptoms despite the anti-histamines and didn't sleep very well.
I have mild flu-like symptoms today, mixed to allergy.

Few considerations and questions:
- Whatever the niacin brand and batch, I can't have a flush now up to 500mg on empty stomach: any ideas why? I remember I sometimes had unwanted flushes in the past with 500mg of niacin after meal.
- Has anyone with seasonal allergies (pollens) noted an aggravation of allergic symptoms (nose, throat irritation) after using niacin?
- I'm not able to say if today I only have light POIS (flu-like pains, cold hands) because of niacin, or for some other factors. Including the fact that 2 weeks of abstention are quite a bit, longer than usual.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on March 22, 2013, 10:31:28 AM
A quick update on my niacin experiments.
I finally got the Nature's Way 100mg cps, which are recommended by many here.
I decided to have a try yesterday, after 2 weeks abstaining from sex.
I took 200mg at 22:20, after 3 hours fasting.
40 mins after waiting for the flush, I took 100mg every 15 mins until I reached 500mg: still no flush.
I had an O around midnight, even without flush.
I had a challenging night with seasonal allergies symptoms despite the anti-histamines and didn't sleep very well.
I have mild flu-like symptoms today, mixed to allergy.

Few considerations and questions:
- Whatever the niacin brand and batch, I can't have a flush now up to 500mg on empty stomach: any ideas why? I remember I sometimes had unwanted flushes in the past with 500mg of niacin after meal.
- Has anyone with seasonal allergies (pollens) noted an aggravation of allergic symptoms (nose, throat irritation) after using niacin?
- I'm not able to say if today I only have light POIS (flu-like pains, cold hands) because of niacin, or for some other factors. Including the fact that 2 weeks of abstention are quite a bit, longer than usual.

I've found that 3 hours fasting is the MINIMUM, and I usually don't have great results.

I guess it's the biggest drawback to niacin. You really need about 6 hrs to be sure.

I have sometimes required "up to 175 mg" after 6 hrs flush, but usually it comes on fairly strong with 100.

After 3 hrs I need 300 minimum. And the results are partial.

A lot depends on the food before. Things that are heavy on the liver like pork and heavy fried food, and alcohol,
require more time for recuperation.

Alcohol needs to be considered in the fast as well. If you have a couple of beers during the 3 hr fast, forget the niacin
nothing will happen.

Try again with complete fast for 6 hrs. Don't take any more than 200 mg. Then if you need more do as you did
taking more every 15 min. If you have to take 500, he effect will be poor.

Tell me more about the niacinamide. I bought some, but haven't tried it yet. My niacin works so well, but if I could get
niacinamide to work, it would be great not to fuss with the fasting.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: urano75 on March 22, 2013, 10:50:08 AM
I take 260mg niacinammide daily as part of my B-Complex, I wonder is that contributes to niacin "tolerance" in some way...
I guess the next way to try is on morning as I wake-up, as I already did with the old brand, unfortunately with similar effects.
I caught a cold (guess how?) now and must wait.
Ironically, I don't drink alcohol and pork meat and very sparingly deep fried food, so it could be very easy for me to flush ;-)
What I usually do eat on evening are fresh (goat) cheeses, I wonder if the high content in fats and proteins has an influence. In other words, if niacin would work better after a carbs, protein or fats meal.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on March 22, 2013, 03:59:34 PM
I take 260mg niacinammide daily as part of my B-Complex, I wonder is that contributes to niacin "tolerance" in some way...
I guess the next way to try is on morning as I wake-up, as I already did with the old brand, unfortunately with similar effects.
I caught a cold (guess how?) now and must wait.
Ironically, I don't drink alcohol and pork meat and very sparingly deep fried food, so it could be very easy for me to flush ;-)
What I usually do eat on evening are fresh (goat) cheeses, I wonder if the high content in fats and proteins has an influence. In other words, if niacin would work better after a carbs, protein or fats meal.

It´s possible that the niacinamide lowers the niacin threshold. It is niacin after all, just a different form.

People who take niacin regularly can take over 2 gr. without getting flush.

I always flush HARD in the morning, with just 100 mg. My first time was in the morning with about 70mg and I
got a good flush.

You could try stopping the niacinamide for a while too.

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: asdfdoc on March 31, 2013, 04:43:25 PM
oh wow...

i didn't believe in niacin. I was looking for other possible answers with serotonin, dopamin and all, which caused me to try different ssris/adhd medications without so much success..

I tried inositol hexanicotinate 500mg about a year ago without any success. I gave up on niacin. I read a few more threads a few weeks ago and I bought Doctor's best REAL niacin timed release 500mg. You guys are right. This thing works. My physical and mental fatigue is noticeably reduced after O. I did have some flush and itchiness first 10 minutes after taking it. Otherwise, this is godsend. Really interesting stuff. I even had O twice and I feel fine. This is weird.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: victor.kons on August 21, 2013, 01:25:58 PM
Herman has posted a link on a very interesting article about Niacin on Russian forum. I would like to share it here as well, very interesting stuff:

http://www.reboundhealth.com/cms/images/pdf/rdid129niacintoflushornottoflush.pdf

Victor
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: b_jim on September 09, 2013, 04:45:42 AM
I have a question : what is the form of niacin in food ? Maybe this form is more easily absorbed ?
(compared to suplements)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: ssquall on October 18, 2013, 02:11:49 PM
Does anyone still have success with Xanathiol Nicotinate???
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Daveman on October 18, 2013, 02:23:17 PM
Most have just been using regular Flush type Niacin instead of Xanthiol Nicotinate.

Works great

Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Jmari on December 25, 2013, 08:24:26 PM
Has anyone considered using something called Picamilon(a fusion of Niacin and GABA)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Newguy on August 26, 2014, 02:51:00 AM
I don't know if this is the 'official' Niacin experiment thread or if there is another one. I see no one posted in the last 120 days.

I tried Niacin for the first time yesterday. After reading a lot about it I decided to test it out and see for myself. I bought the flush type 100mg. I had not eaten for four hours before taking it. Took the pill at 5:30 pm and felt nothing till 6pm so I decided to take another one. Within 5 minutes my body started to tingle and after 15  minutes my face was as red like a tomato. I don't know if this was the effect of the first or second pill but it was definitely working. At around 6:35 pm I had an orgasm. At first I didn't know if this was too soon since it was about 20 minutes after the flush really started but I could feel the flush going away and my face was still a bit red when I orgasmed. Next time I try to be a bit more patient and orgasm 45 minutes after the flush.

Anyways, immediately after the orgasm I noticed that I wasn't sleepy like I normal am after an orgasm. I just got up and cleaned myself. I didn't really feel a drop in energy as well like is normally the case.
So almost no difference before and after orgasm. One thing I did notice was that I was very tired very soon in the evening. Went to sleep at 9:30 pm already and slept for ten hours.

The flush was really strong so maybe that took a lot of energy from my body? I felt very energized the first two hours after taking the Niacine but then became tired.

Today I don't feel the symptoms as strong as I would without Niacine. It's hard to measure but I would say the symptoms reduced 60 to 70%. It's still early so I don't know what the rest of the day will bring, also day 2 is normally my worst day after an orgasm so we have to see how that goes. But until now I would describe my experience with Niacin as positive :)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: b_jim on April 21, 2015, 05:33:59 PM
I wonder if the flush effect is not to create a release of endorphins to counter a possible drop of endorphins after ejaculation. Eating pepper causes an endorphins rush.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Nightingale on April 21, 2015, 09:53:58 PM
Today I don't feel the symptoms as strong as I would without Niacine. It's hard to measure but I would say the symptoms reduced 60 to 70%. It's still early so I don't know what the rest of the day will bring, also day 2 is normally my worst day after an orgasm so we have to see how that goes. But until now I would describe my experience with Niacin as positive :)

Congrats :)
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: b_jim on September 08, 2015, 01:44:38 AM
I think hypothalamus may be the center of gravity of Pois.
The fluctuations of hormones and neurotransmitters after ejaculations cause an activity in hypothalamus cells.
Niacin flush might work as a vaccine.

There is a difference between "dry flushing" (eg: nicin flush) and "wet flushing" (eg : menopause).
http://www.clevelandclinicmeded.com/medicalpubs/diseasemanagement/endocrinology/flushing/Default.htm

It may explains too different cure are possible.

Increase of catecholamines cause hotflashes.
Increase of opioids cause decrease of catecholamines.
Decrease of sexual hormones cause decrease of opioids.


When sexual hormones are low, it cause hot flashes :
Quote
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/isrn/2013/240108/
The symptom of hot flashes is among the most common and early described side effects of ADT as it was reported by Huggins and Hodges in 1941 in 9 of the first 21 prostate cancer patients ever to undergo ADT. Hot flashes are caused by inappropriate stimulation of thermoregulatory centers in the hypothalamus, resulting in peripheral vasodilatation [11]. Hot flushes are described by patients as the perception of intense warmth and subsequent cooling, flushing of the skin, perspiration, and chills in the upper part of the body, usually the neck and face. Associated symptoms may include anxiety and palpitations. Hot flashes usually last from a few seconds to several minutes but can persist for up to 20?min.

* Androgen deprivation therapy (ADT)


Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Vanker on January 17, 2016, 08:35:14 PM
 I have been a silent reader for 3 years. I have tried Niacin it prevents my physical symptoms of POIS. But my cognitive functions doesn't improves or sometimes worse.
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: Raj on March 23, 2016, 09:36:07 PM
It's an old thread, but I want to ask a question. I stopped using niacin as it was not giving me flush. But today morning, I took 3 niacin pills (100 mg each), not because I wanted to masturbate. It was lying around and I thought of giving it a try. Maybe it would work that time. And oh my goodness, it actually worked giving me a strong so called "flush"! Man, I was on fire! And, I loved that feeling too. Anyways, I just masturbated after 40-50 mins and haven't got any symptom so far. Hopefully, I will not be getting any until next orgasm. Anyways, my question is - can I masturbate multiple times during that flush period? It's a dull question, I know. But it makes sense for me.. Somehow... Also can anyone explain why I wasn't flushing before? Thanq!
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: FloppyBanana on March 24, 2016, 02:39:40 AM
harder to flush on full stomach
Title: Re: Xanthiol Nicotinate - Benefits, Risks and Function in POIS
Post by: b_jim on August 15, 2016, 01:28:26 AM
It seems niacine supplementation might work as a light benzodiazepine, muscle relaxant or might increase Gaba synthesis.